Benefits

[jonbuoy]

And the richest,most populace country on the planet is......?

And you would want to live there?

[Clockwork]

"Doctors" aren´t a recent invention, ancient Greeks had them, herbal healers and witch doctors have been around for longer than money. What you are describing is communism, a Doctor gets paid the same as a waitress, brain surgeon, scientist - how is that fair? Why do you think so many top scientists defected from Russia - we were happy to have them, the same couldn´t be said for labourers. A doctor could probably do a half decent job of making a shelter, a labourer wouldn´t be able to remove an appendix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

I'll conceded the Communism point but I'd just point out that the Soviet Union wasn't communist (that's just how their Government labled them, that would go for China too) Now Cuba, if they weren't being fucked over by the Yanks, they could be making a better fist of it.

Anyway, you're talking Witch Doctors Herbal Healers, and Aincent Greeks?? Leeches, bleedings and you're suggesting that they contributed more to that society than the labourers?

Just because desparate people "hoped" they may help didn't make them any more useful than todays faith healers and Homopaths.

[jonbuoy]

I'll conceded the Communism point but I'd just point out that the Soviet Union wasn't communist (that's just how their Government labled them, that would go for China too) Now Cuba, if they weren't being fucked over by the Yanks, they could be making a better fist of it.

Anyway, you're talking Witch Doctors Herbal Healers, and Aincent Greeks?? Leeches, bleedings and you're suggesting that they contributed more to that society than the labourers?

Just because desparate people "hoped" they may help didn't make them any more useful than todays faith healers and Homopaths.

You have to be kidding?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3858087.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbalism

[puddytat]

And you would want to live there?

Where everyone is on the same level....anyday. But I'd go more along socialist lines

[jonbuoy]

Where everyone is on the same level....anyday. But I'd go more along socialist lines

Nice idea in theory, in the words of Frank Zappa

"communism doesn´t work because people like to own stuff".

I think China has a bigger gap between rich and poor than western societies.

[Clockwork]

No I'm not kidding, 150 years ago they didn't know about bacteria or infection, gthey had no anaesthetics. It was only 60 or so years ago they discovered antibiotics.

All that aside, the point I was making and stand by is that society needed and benefited from labourers long before it got any practical benefit from Doctors.

[puddytat]

Quote Jono,nice idea in theory

Hmmmm,dunno about that....but I do accept that its not perfect, but I really dont see open slather capitalism as being that much different in its rich/poor disparity.One thing about China is that the people believe strongly in their system & even stronger in their culture
In the west the mantra is " If its not about me then Im not interested"
Socialism is really a slightly different kettle of fush And like clockwork says Cuba is a good example....& unlike what western media portrays, the people are generally happy, well fed & like the system. I know, Ive been there.

[jonbuoy]

No I'm not kidding, 150 years ago they didn't know about bacteria or infection, gthey had no anaesthetics. It was only 60 or so years ago they discovered antibiotics.

All that aside, the point I was making and stand by is that society needed and benefited from labourers long before it got any practical benefit from Doctors.

It might be they have only just recently been making some decent headway but the tribal witchdoctor was well treated and held a lot of power in the communities. I can´t think of any ancient civilisation that didn´t put the healers or the medicine men on a bit of a pedestal. Like it or not. Its no different to the chief or the strongest fighter having the pick of the best women and food. Human nature.

[Clockwork]

I don't have to like it, you may well be correct. People are funny brids and there are still people today that believe in all sorts of mumbo jumbo but that doesn't mean that the mumbo jumbo is of any benefit to society.

If you don't repect the Witch Doctor, he'll make your knob drop off. If your a king with a festering wound and no one else can help of course you're going to seek the services of a Doctor, what have you got to loose? What has the Doctor got to gain if he can convince the King he is in fact making things better?

[mashman]

Some people could never make it as a Doctor, Lawyer, Brain Surgeon, Company Director. Some people are smarter than others. Communism doesn´t work, fact.

You don´t think a doctor is more valuable to society than a labourer?? You´d change your mind if you were sick.

A doctor could probably do a half decent job of making a shelter, a labourer wouldn´t be able to remove an appendix.

Why not? Because someone is smarter? It takes knowledge, that's all. You're right, communism doesn't going far enough, because it still relies on some form of reward system. Get over the need for a reward system and accept that your basic needs are going to be met and you have something entirely different. Something that would also include the ability to have toys and stuff.

The bin man is more valuable to society than a Doctor. As mentioned, until you need a Doctor, they're useless. The Labourers skills are more transferable from job to job. So yeah, I'd say they were more valuable.

Why wouldn't a labourer be able to remove an appendix? They're already good with tools and understand how to follow instructions. Where's the problem, other than lack of experience?

[Ocean1]

I think China has a bigger gap between rich and poor than western societies.

Hmmmm,dunno about that....

Trust me, it has.

And it's got fuck all to do with communism and rather a lot to do with a monopolistic system closely resembling feudalism.

You really don't want to live there if you expect to survive on your own merits.




You don't?

[jonbuoy]

I don't have to like it, you may well be correct. People are funny brids and there are still people today that believe in all sorts of mumbo jumbo but that doesn't mean that the mumbo jumbo is of any benefit to society.

If you don't repect the Witch Doctor, he'll make your knob drop off. If your a king with a festering wound and no one else can help of course you're going to seek the services of a Doctor, what have you got to loose? What has the Doctor got to gain if he can convince the King he is in fact making things better?

Yup, if you don´t pay the Shaman his chicken or make a big building for your god you won´t get into the big playboy mansion in the sky. We put a funny value on some things.

[puddytat]

Trust me, it has.

And it's got fuck all to do with communism and rather a lot to do with a monopolistic system closely resembling feudalism.

You really don't want to live there if you expect to survive on your own merits.




You don't?

I agree with what you say....but I survive on my own merits now. I agree the bastardisation of the original theory has meant that it resembles the thing it was meant to replace, alot like Russia now has a different "ism" than what it had before Perestroika.
The "ism" (doctorine or system)has a lot to answer for I reckon,seems to ultimately end up as a schism.
Why are we always stuck with either left or right when maybe we'd be happy with a compromiseism?

[jonbuoy]

Why not? Because someone is smarter? It takes knowledge, that's all. You're right, communism doesn't going far enough, because it still relies on some form of reward system. Get over the need for a reward system and accept that your basic needs are going to be met and you have something entirely different. Something that would also include the ability to have toys and stuff.

The bin man is more valuable to society than a Doctor. As mentioned, until you need a Doctor, they're useless. The Labourers skills are more transferable from job to job. So yeah, I'd say they were more valuable.

Why wouldn't a labourer be able to remove an appendix? They're already good with tools and understand how to follow instructions. Where's the problem, other than lack of experience?

Yes some people are smarter than others, you don´t think so? Its not just repeating things parrot like from memory or books

I don´t think I could be a Doctor, Surgeon, Fast Jet Pilot or or run a multi million dollar company, pretty sure any of them can pick up rubbish or dig a hole, or even lay bricks with a bit of practice - its not rocket science - but rocket science is rocket science .

Not belittling anyone who does dig holes for a living, way more important than budging on the dole and a lot of smart people are quite happy doing manual labour.

[BoristheBiter]

No I'm not kidding, 150 years ago they didn't know about bacteria or infection, gthey had no anaesthetics. It was only 60 or so years ago they discovered antibiotics.

All that aside, the point I was making and stand by is that society needed and benefited from labourers long before it got any practical benefit from Doctors.

Maybe but back then it was called slavery.