Benefits

[puddytat]

Why would a top scientist/lawyer work for peanuts when he could earn far more money overseas. Notice the same thing happening in NZ?

Why are we funding our top AgResearch scientists to the tune of 8mill a year to fuck around with goats while the company who is in cahoots with them is the largest BioEngineering company in the world who,get all patents & intellectual property rights to any discoveries our scientist make? FFS why are WE paying for that?
Fuckthem!
Even the scientists involved with that dont like that yet our Govt spends more money on R&D for these foreigners than it does on alot of way more useful training programmes.

[Winston001]

Why are we funding our top AgResearch scientists to the tune of 8mill a year to fuck around with goats while the company who is in cahoots with them is the largest BioEngineering company in the world who,get all patents & intellectual property rights to any discoveries our scientist make? FFS why are WE paying for that?

Now Puddytat, that's a bit naughty of you. Most of the above is simply untrue.

The largest bio-engineering company is nothing of the sort. It is GTC Biotherapeutics which began in 1993 - yes, 1993 - has never made a profit. Here's a clip:

“We also have a development agreement in place with AgResearch in New Zealand for co-funding further development of selected follow-on biologics, particularly where European patents expire prior to U.S. patents…

…We have operated at a net loss since our inception in 1993, and we used $20.3 million of net cash in our operating cash flows during the first nine months of 2009. Our recurring losses from operations and our limited funds raise substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern. We are entirely dependent upon funding from equity financings, partnering programs and proceeds from short and long-term debt to finance our operations until we achieve commercial success in selling and licensing our products and positive cash flow from
operations.”

The deal with AgResearch is that GTC will hold the US patent if...if..the work is successful. You can be sure AgResearch will hold patent rights as well, in fact NZ scientists lead the world on ruminant genetics. A mate of mine is a world authority on sheep genes but like most blokes, never skites or explains why he's invited to address conferences.

Agricultural science is about the only edge NZ has in the new technological world and we have to partner with other universities and businesses to get the research money.

[puddytat]

Now Puddytat, that's a bit naughty of you. Most of the above is simply untrue.

The largest bio-engineering company is nothing of the sort. It is GTC Biotherapeutics which began in 1993 - yes, 1993 - has never made a profit. Here's a clip:

“We also have a development agreement in place with AgResearch in New Zealand for co-funding further development of selected follow-on biologics, particularly where European patents expire prior to U.S. patents…

…We have operated at a net loss since our inception in 1993, and we used $20.3 million of net cash in our operating cash flows during the first nine months of 2009. Our recurring losses from operations and our limited funds raise substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern. We are entirely dependent upon funding from equity financings, partnering programs and proceeds from short and long-term debt to finance our operations until we achieve commercial success in selling and licensing our products and positive cash flow from
operations.”

The deal with AgResearch is that GTC will hold the US patent if...if..the work is successful. You can be sure AgResearch will hold patent rights as well, in fact NZ scientists lead the world on ruminant genetics. A mate of mine is a world authority on sheep genes but like most blokes, never skites or explains why he's invited to address conferences.

Agricultural science is about the only edge NZ has in the new technological world and we have to partner with other universities and businesses to get the research money.

Your right, they're not the largest & I appreciate you enlightening me,but I quote Straight Furrows' Sandra Finneys front page article....(man I wish I could cut & paste)
"The company, a world leader in milk threpeautic products from GM animals,holds the US patents thru to 2021for any therapeautic proteins produced in transgenic animals & receives all the commercial gains from AgResearch's programme while the researchers only gain knowledge.
Dr Warren McNabb, research director for AgResearch was unsure wether GTC contributed any IP but it had brought a commercial focus to the GE programme regarding goats milk.
Straight Furrow reminded him that all the commercial benefits went to the private company.
Asked if the $8 million representd fair value, considering AgResearch scientists only gained knowledge from the trials, Dr McNabb said,"I cant comment on why FRST (Foundation for Research & Science & Technology) made the investment, it might have been on the basis of a percieved need for us to be involved in this kind of development"
He was reminded that when the researchers left their positions that much of the knowledge would go with them.
Within the GM debate framework, Dr McNabb wondered if AgResearch would still want to be involved in medical therepeautics in the future."
So...Hey I accept what you saying, but hey this is what I read in Straight Furrow & they're pretty "straight "if you catch my drift. Sandra Finney is probably their more centerist if( thats the right word) contributer , from a newspaper that has large articles from Dennis T Avery a right wing lobbyist for the GE & Chemical Industry of the US &
whose letters to the Editor consist almost completly of Climate Change deniers
& Farmers who believe that farming has no impact.
Im a skeptic,mainly because we will spend 8 mill on GE Research for a private foreign company, yet we spend less on studies on sustainability or research on low input farming.When playing God with GE is motivated by monetary gain then Im dead against it.

[imdying]

No,but I have bought bad products that have been excellently marketed!

Ahahahahah tru dat!

[Banditbandit]

Why are we funding our top AgResearch scientists to the tune of 8mill a year to fuck around with goats

Did you know that more goat meat is eaten in the world than sheep meat?

Why the fuck are we continuing to produce sheep meat? There would appear to be a much bigger market in goat meat ... why don't we go for a share of that ? It would seem to be an obvious market strategy would it not? Grow what people want to eat (goats) instead of growing what we want (sheep) then trying to find a market for it. Sure there once was a market for lamb and hogget in the UK .. that went when the UK joined the Common Market ... But what did we do? Continue to grow sheep .. instead of looking at what the market really wanted ...

It's not rocket science ... but no-one in this country seems to have noticed ...

[Banditbandit]

You did not answer my question ... but hei aha ... the answer is obvious

The brand of communism that says a brain surgeon should get paid the same as:


Someone who chooses not to work because they don´t feel like it.
An unproductive/useless worker

No Communist system I know of says that. That's getting sucked into the propoganda system of the capitalist machine ... (It might apply to good old Godzone tho' ... )

Hairdresser.

Yes. What's the problem? If people work hard should they not get rewerded for their hard work? Does it matter what the work is? .. I don't think so - reward people for hard work ..

The brand of communism that says we are all equal and no-one should have any more than anyone else.

How can you disagree that we are all equal? Not the same but equal ... "equality" does not mean "same" ... what you seem to mean is simply a matter of genetic inheritance - luck - whatever .... Who says under Communism people should not have more than anyone else ? It's certainly not in the writings of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky ...

We can´t all have a yacht, a sportscar, a sportsbike, a nice big house, a beach bach, overseas holidays. Some people have worked bloody hard to get what they have and made a lot of sacrifices. Why should someone else who has cruised through life have the same?

Again .. not any version of Communism I know .. your ideas about Communism appear to come from the anti-Communist propoganda of the Capitalists - not from any direct knowledge of the system ... Which writers on Communism have you read?

Two imaginary countries, call them A and B share a border.

Country A works under a communist system - all men are equal. Everyone gets paid the same, lives in a basic "peoples" house, drives a "peoples" car or rides a "peoples" bike, wears "peoples" clothes. There is no way to climb from where you are, it makes no difference to your standard of living how hard you study or work.

Country B works under a capitalist system like NZ has now, work/study hard and you will be rewarded. You can come from nothing and have the potential to be million/billionaire. In country B a hairdresser/butcher/builder/labourer can build up a small business, when they have enough business they can employ other people to work for them and be the "oppressive capitalist pig" or just a hardworking business minded worker.

The borders between the two countries are open - free travel between the two. In 50 years time what do you think is going to happen to the population?

Because under a communist system everyone is the "same", we can´t all have everything we want. Some people will always work hard for more.

Country A is not a Communist country

Country B (GodZone) is much closer to the Socialist/Communist approach than you are probably prepared to accept - on the world stage New Zealand is a very very Socialist country ...

Are tax dodgers a drain on society? Which people that have never worked but have all this money are you talking about? Inheritance?

Hell yes Tax Dodgers are a drain on society - sponging off the rest of us. They have all the benefits of living in our society - health, education, police, roads, etc etc .. without paying for it.

Tax dodgers cost the rest of us ordinary PAYE taxpayers - because the money lost because tax dodgers do not pay anything is made up by US! If ALL tax was collected or individual tax would be lower ....

Winston Peters' Wine Box scandal uncovered something like $600million in tax dodging .... that amount of money would have funded 20 medium size Polytechs (and people are screaming for student places which have been limited because the Government doesn't have enough money) - or several hospitals (we need them) - or many more student places, apprenticeships, operations in hospitals ... things we need but can't afford ..

Now if that money was not spent on those things, but the system remained where it is ... we would all be paying lower PAYE

How much is the total tax loss to this country because the big companies and rich fuckers are avoiding tax? Some people say they pay Zero tax ... well shit .. that is at the cost of us all ...

I could go on - tax dodgers - I hate the fuckers ...

[avgas]

What a great debate. Pointless, but great.

By the sounds of things, neither side has any idea how any of the sides actually works.

Communist and Capitalist are just political terms that make the politics graduates sound like they have a grasp on the world. Where the fact of the matter is they know shit.
Its people that make places different. Not political stuctures.

You all need to get out a bit more and experience these differences personally. It might blow your mind to find out how things work.
All this academic "guess-work" is simply showing how little you know about how the world works. Go work in China or US. Then tell me how oppressed people are due to the govt structure.

I mean think about it - we get hammered to hell over speeding in NZ. But does that mean that everyone on the road suddenly does under the speed limit? Or does the decrease in speed in NZ due to other factors like decisions individual people are making.

Heh political gossip - What is this 1976?
Grow up and experience life fools.

[imdying]

Money money money... some of the most enriching moments of my like have come from people who contribute nothing to the tax take of this country.

I'm glad that not everybody follows the fucked up value systems of some posters.

[BoristheBiter]

Hell yes Tax Dodgers are a drain on society - sponging off the rest of us. They have all the benefits of living in our society - health, education, police, roads, etc etc .. without paying for it.

Tax dodgers cost the rest of us ordinary PAYE taxpayers - because the money lost because tax dodgers do not pay anything is made up by US! If ALL tax was collected or individual tax would be lower ....

Winston Peters' Wine Box scandal uncovered something like $600million in tax dodging .... that amount of money would have funded 20 medium size Polytechs (and people are screaming for student places which have been limited because the Government doesn't have enough money) - or several hospitals (we need them) - or many more student places, apprenticeships, operations in hospitals ... things we need but can't afford ..

Now if that money was not spent on those things, but the system remained where it is ... we would all be paying lower PAYE

How much is the total tax loss to this country because the big companies and rich fuckers are avoiding tax? Some people say they pay Zero tax ... well shit .. that is at the cost of us all ...

I could go on - tax dodgers - I hate the fuckers ...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
You say that tax dodgers (working but not paying tax) are bludgers but them on the dole (not working but taking money) aren't.

I thought you had a fucked up out look but that takes the cake.

[puddytat]

Did you know that more goat meat is eaten in the world than sheep meat?

Why the fuck are we continuing to produce sheep meat? There would appear to be a much bigger market in goat meat ... why don't we go for a share of that ? It would seem to be an obvious market strategy would it not? Grow what people want to eat (goats) instead of growing what we want (sheep) then trying to find a market for it. Sure there once was a market for lamb and hogget in the UK .. that went when the UK joined the Common Market ... But what did we do? Continue to grow sheep .. instead of looking at what the market really wanted ...

It's not rocket science ... but no-one in this country seems to have noticed ...

Ummm being a farmer I did know that more people eat Goats. Did you know you can run an extra 10% of your existing stock numbers as goats, because they eat species that sheep & bovines dont.
Thats the upside.
Down side here is the cost of fencing to keep them contained & that a 20something kg goat is worth 26 bucks.But they're also always worth that so are not prone to the market fluctuations of sheep & bovine.That is why we like many look at goats as an option,but for us the cost outweighs the benefit. If you were to have milking herd of goats then the numbers are better becuse of Cheese etc & you can sell the offspring....but at $100.000 plus to set up a food grade milking shed & Cheesery...na I dont do debt.

[imdying]

food grade milking shed & Cheesery

I know it's probably obvious to a farmer, but what other grades are there?

[avgas]

I know it's probably obvious to a farmer, but what other grades are there?

KB level cheesery

[Oscar]

KB level cheesery

Foreskin cheese?

[puddytat]

Sorry if I came across as condescending, twas not my intention...
Well here our grade of milking bail for the house cow is by the powers to be definition most likely "Dodgey''grade as its part of the car shed.Likewise our simple Cheesey cheese making (tm)equipment made out of stainless fire flue & whatever else was lying around at the time.
Fine for us.
The point I was sort of trying to make that is that only recently has the laws been changed to allow people to sell raw milk products(?) whereas for years we have been importing raw milk(unpasteurised) cheeses from EuropeBut usually made by Buxom wenches in bodices & skirts who wash only on the sabbath in a mountain stream & who bed down with the cows in the barn...

In all honesty imdying,I dont have a clue what other grades there are.

[imdying]

Sorry if I came across as condescending, twas not my intention...

Nah mate, was a serious question... my knowledge of dairy farming is zip.