Who will win the 2011 election?

[Ocean1]

This is true, but dishonest, and you know it.

It's a fact, and you know it.

When you learn to discern causal structures from related data you'll come to understand that wholesale redistribution of resources might make you feel better, (particularly where other peoples resources are concerned) but the only people for whom it produces improvements are those who actually prefer charity as a way of life.

[Pussy]

Correct. Societies with a higher number of contributing members and a minimum of number of parasites produce a more equally spread income.

How could it be otherwise?

It's a fact, and you know it.

When you learn to discern causal structures from related data you'll come to understand that wholesale redistribution of resources might make you feel better, (particularly where other peoples resources are concerned) but the only people for whom it produces improvements are those who actually prefer charity as a way of life.

Spot on! I'm sick of the bleeding hearts crapping on and embracing the culture of envy.

[rainman]

It's a fact, and you know it.

When you learn to discern causal structures from related data you'll come to understand that wholesale redistribution of resources might make you feel better, (particularly where other peoples resources are concerned) but the only people for whom it produces improvements are those who actually prefer charity as a way of life.

I did not dispute its veracity, merely stated that you were nowhere near telling the whole truth. You're not so much of a simpleton to believe the cartoonish nonsense frequently spouted here. On matters of causality, what has driven the massive increase in wealth of the 1% over the last 25 or so years, while the lucky among the rest of us have stayed in place, and the rest have slipped backwards?

And I didn't advocate the "wholesale redistribution of resources", and am unlikely to, so you can lay that strawman to rest too.

[rainman]

Spot on! I'm sick of the bleeding hearts crapping on and embracing the culture of envy.

Similarly, I'm tired of individualistic sociopaths crapping on about their Randian heroism while failing to understand what sustains their good fortune...

[Pussy]

Similarly, I'm tired of individualistic sociopaths crapping on about their Randian heroism while failing to understand what sustains their good fortune...

I fully understand what sustains my good fortune. Something called "work" for a start.....

[rainman]

I fully understand what sustains my good fortune. Something called "work" for a start.....

That is part of it, yes.

[Robert Taylor]

I fully understand what sustains my good fortune. Something called "work" for a start.....

Got to agree John ( about work, paricularly hard work ) Some people should try it and not look to the Government to provide all the time.

[oldrider]

Got to agree John ( about work, paricularly hard work ) Some people should try it and not look to the Government to provide all the time.

Not only work but financial risk, personal sacrifice and frugality, to name a few and when it succeeds, the envious call it "luck"! .... Yeah, right!

[Winston001]

Similarly, I'm tired of individualistic sociopaths crapping on about their Randian heroism while failing to understand what sustains their good fortune...

Agreed but this is where it all goes wrong IMHO. Discussions on moderate disagreements rapidly escalate to extreme positions.

I don't sense that Ocean, Pussy, RT, Oscar et al are rich wealthy capitalists who look down on the poor. Nor do they reject the benefits of a safe lawful society which allows people to achieve.

Similarly Rainman you impress as an intelligent social thinker rather than say, a radical Marxist for wont of a better term.

I think most of us here and in wider society accept the social democracy model which provides a safety net for disadvantaged members of our community.

The real issue is to determine the fairest method to spread the responsibility across our whole society. Helping the disadvantaged to improve their self-respect and contribution is part of the equation. It requires much deeper efforts than simply throwing money at them.

[Ocean1]

On matters of causality, what has driven the massive increase in wealth of the 1% over the last 25 or so years, while the lucky among the rest of us have stayed in place, and the rest have slipped backwards?

Those 40,000 odd Kiwis, (arseholes to a man, no doubt), but exactly how did you come to make their acquaintance quite so thoroughly? I must confess I’ve no idea if I’m included there or not, care to enlighten me?

And if a large contingent of the rest really believe luck is the reason they’re unhappy with their lot then I doubt they’ll ever improve it.

As for the rest? One thing I guarantee, if they behaved like that 1% they’d get similar results.
They can’t, you say? Possibly, in some cases. And yet I don’t believe even they are worse off than their parents. I know you don’t agree, but it’s nonetheless a fact that the facilities and assets enjoyed by the lowest income individuals in this country are an order of magnitude more sophisticated and beneficial than those available to their grandparents.

And I didn't advocate the "wholesale redistribution of resources", and am unlikely to, so you can lay that strawman to rest too.

And yet you repeatedly insinuate that the wealthy are delinquent in failing to supply a higher level of support for the less wealthy.

Similarly, I'm tired of individualistic sociopaths crapping on about their Randian heroism while failing to understand what sustains their good fortune...

Again with the luck thing, do you genuinely believe good fortune is the sole factor in any individual’s success?

Not only work but financial risk, personal sacrifice and frugality, to name a few and when it succeeds, the envious call it "luck"! .... Yeah, right!

My point. It’s a short list, John, but it’s already got the makings of a schedule of behavioural traits most likely to create success, eh?

[mashman]

Discussions on moderate disagreements rapidly escalate to extreme positions.

One man's extremes are another man's commons sense. I guess we all have our limits.

[Winston001]

One man's extremes are another man's commons sense. I guess we all have our limits.

LOL yeah? Define common sense.

[Ocean1]

LOL yeah? Define common sense.

Dude!. Think who it is you're asking!


Besides, he can't, he's got limits.

[mashman]

LOL yeah? Define common sense.

Doing what's right for no other reason that it's the right thing to do (for everyone)

[mashman]

Dude!. Think who it is you're asking!


Besides, he can't, he's got limits.

go on, flesh it out... I'm dying to hear this one

I do, far too many for my liking.