Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

[bikaholic]

Safer journeys is a (pair) of different documents - that submission was on the last P.O.S. the NZTA did.

Interestingly it offered clear (if unsupported) evidence that the age at which one gets a licence is way less important in terms of road safety than the number of years that one has held the licence.

So it will remain to be seen if the change in age simply bumps up the age at which we have accidents.

Well the Government usually takes the most economical approach, raising the age is easy, just like forstalling the unemployment school leaver gap.
But interesting in the PPL scenario as posted by Brian, once the basic tasks are competent, and one can land a plane, the A-cat CFI judges you when competent to fly solo, and at the end of the day that is all that is need to fly by yourself. This can happen from as little as 7 hours dual instruction.

[bogan]

Interestingly enough, there doesnt seem to be too much in the way of gigantic leaps forward from anyone else here either. Despite all your posturing were still paying 600 dollar regos and staring down the barrel of hiviz, any colour you like as long as its white helmets and reduced speed limits, yet the real issue of better and tougher licensing has barely been touched.

Well Done I Say.

Have a google on the subject of licensing changes that are coming through in the next year or two.

[bikaholic]

Well he certainly hasn't done anything I've heard of. I stand ready to be corrected though. However, neither myself nor my father in law, who used to do the same thing in BRONZ that I do now (and CAN remember BRONZ of many years ago), can remember anything about him.

actually riffer, I take my hat off to you, all that after hours unthanked work. I looked at joining Bronz, but the website doesn't do it justice. Some or most of the other organisations, pressure groups, communities what ever their handle have fulltime paid advocates and proffessionals and meaningful subscriptions.
I'm starting to think to think that, that is the elephant in the room, when you consider what we are up against as individuals.

[Scuba_Steve]

Safer journeys is a (pair) of different documents - that submission was on the last P.O.S. the NZTA did.

Interestingly it offered clear (if unsupported) evidence that the age at which one gets a licence is way less important in terms of road safety than the number of years that one has held the licence.

So it will remain to be seen if the change in age simply bumps up the age at which we have accidents.

You won't it was never the age, it's the "ego trip" short of making the age 30, the age of licence won't achieve anything as it's got nothing to do with why they crashed. Crashes were both from the learning, but more from the "ego stroking" they get out with their mates in the car & "hey check what I can do" nek minut...
In-fact your probably better off giving them proper training & a licence at 13 so but the time the "ego years" hit (16-24) they should have sufficient knowledge/skill that when they do attempt to "stroke their ego" they don't fuckup or fuckup as badly.

[bikaholic]

Interestingly enough, there doesnt seem to be too much in the way of gigantic leaps forward from anyone else here either. Despite all your posturing were still paying 600 dollar regos and staring down the barrel of hiviz, any colour you like as long as its white helmets and reduced speed limits, yet the real issue of better and tougher licensing has barely been touched.

Well Done I Say.

$600, is that all, what is it going to be when it ACC is privatised, or fully funded?
Better get your finger out of your arse and do what you say you do Brian.

And don't forget to pack your toothbrush next week.

[Brian407]

And don't forget to pack your toothbrush next week.

Hotels I stay in have new ones in the ensuites.

[MSTRS:Me]

Most 600cc plus bikes are into licence losing territory even before they are operating at optimum in top gear.

I guess there's a few that might need to get into top...my old GixxerSemFiddy will do it in FIRST...

... theres plenty of releases on that site where they contradict themselves,...

Apt pupil, aintcha?


Fuck, you're as bad if not worse, than the dickheads that call themselves McSack. "We're doing amazing things for motorcyclists. But we can't breathe a word of any of it. In fact, we've said too much already. Any more and we'll have to fire ourselves." Just like them, you have no credibility whatsoever.
But you can still save yourself...
Put up. Or fuck off.

[p.dath]

The issue is that in many poorer areas of New Zealand, the rates of un-licenced drivers are soaring.

As the test has become harder and more expensive, many poorer people are finding it beyond their reach. The good ones get used to begging rides, and taking the bus.

I was under the impression that the restricted test has been made harder and the full test easier, and the total cost of sitting both of these tests is uncharged - they have just shifted the costs from one part to another within the test framework?

[Conquiztador]

Oh Pleeeaaasse... cry me a river... parking spaces in Wellington FFS. Whoopee. Next time i'm in Wellington (next week on business actually) I'll be sure to check one out. Funny thing is though, i'm pretty fucken sure we have parking spaces here too. Who should I thank for those.

I'm not decrying the work of others, dont doubt that there are some hard working people out there, but this whole idea of uniting all motorcyclists in a common cause is simply a joke
.......

Change the focus. Said it at the start, still saying it now. Start working WITH these people instead of against them and you might make MORE progress, and a lot quicker than you think.
........

This whole mentality that 'they're out to get us' is bullshit, and the focus on trying to 'stop them getting us' is exactly why they will 'get us'.

WAKE UP FFS.

Sorry. The "working with-in" will only benefit the ones who get there. The rest of us will still loose. And the "they are out to get us" is a fact. But not as a result of any focused effort to do so. But as a side result of trying to make everything a revenue gathering, fix it, happy happy joy joy setup. Just because other countries have put regulations and hinders in the way does not mean it is the way to go.

You're not wrong.
That's called Negotiating.
To Negotiate we have to have something to offer. The only way I see that happening is either a) we take something away they take for granted or b) we come up with something new that they want/need.

As you can see I have "built a few fences" in the past. So when I say "we're fucked" I don't do so light-heartedly.
Either we attack back with 'a'.........unless someone can come up with a genuine 'b'.
Neither a nor b happens with paper work.

The only things we might be able to muster is numbers of voters, bad publicity (for "them"), ultimatums that "they" most possibly would not want to face, a "win-win" for us and "them", and... full on anarchy ;-)

BMW produced quite acceptable performance even with the 100bhp limit imposed by the german govt. Yet most here will sneer and call them underpowered bikes. Well sometimes those 'underpowered' bikes have their own attributes that can be as exciting to explore.

I own a BMW K1 1989 and she has enough power. She tops 240k/h, I have scraped the pegs (and worn the toes on my boots...), she happily sits on 180/h until I tire (or I start to worry about my license...), I own all cars at the lights, and I have no intention of getting anything else as a "sports tourer". And she is one of the 100hp ones. (If I ever wanted to I can add a turbo and take her up to close to 300hp...)

[Brian407]

And the "they are out to get us" is a fact.

Stop smoking the hooter buddy, it's making you paranoid. Not every street corner camera is looking at you. Or is it ???

Just because other countries have put regulations and hinders in the way does not mean it is the way to go.

Yeah, why would we wanna learn from something that works elsewhere.

A wise man learns from his mistakes, an even wiser man learns from the mistakes of others.

[James Deuce]

OMG! This is Brian Tamaki having a public spaz out, isn't it?

[davereid]

I was under the impression that the restricted test has been made harder and the full test easier, and the total cost of sitting both of these tests is uncharged - they have just shifted the costs from one part to another within the test framework?

The fees are essentially the same, and its quite correct that the restricted test has been made the virtual equivalent of the full.

But the fees are only part of the "cost" structure.

The licence risks becoming available only to an elite class. Those who can afford 120 hours training, three fails and a 200km round trip to go to a town where they actually run the test.

If we don't place it within the reasonable financial and skill reach of all, we will have to accept that many will not get it. And then we will need draconian measures to ensure the unlicensed don't drive.

And I have to be honest.

My licence cost a fiver at the MOT office. It was raining the day of the test, so the cop didn't want to go and do the test, he just got me to go get him a pie.

And I have wasted 35 years of insurance premuims.

[Conquiztador]

Stop smoking the hooter buddy, it's making you paranoid. Not every street corner camera is looking at you. Or is it ???

If you re-read my post you will find that you missed my point: "And the "they are out to get us" is a fact. But not as a result of any focused effort to do so. But as a side result of trying to make everything a revenue gathering, fix it, happy happy joy joy setup. Just because other countries have put regulations and hinders in the way does not mean it is the way to go." I do not smoke. Anything at all. And I am far from paranoid. The fact is that if there is not a combined effort we will be faced with changes re motorcycling that we currently do not want.

Yeah, why would we wanna learn from something that works elsewhere.

A wise man learns from his mistakes, an even wiser man learns from the mistakes of others.

The sad truth is that it does not work. Draconian legislation will always save a few lives and so we need to ask our selves are we prepared to accept them? Personally I am not. I am fully supportive of individual responsibility where the emphasis is put on each of us to stay alive and not on a government to come up with legislation to save us from our selves.

[Brian407]

I am fully supportive of individual responsibility where the emphasis is put on each of us to stay alive and not on a government to come up with legislation to save us from our selves.

Laudable, but unfortunately a pipe dream. We've (society in general) had our opportunity to take individual responsibilty for ourselves and the youth courts are full of shining examples of exactly why it doesnt work. Were not in the 50's anymore, were in a world that exists on television and in the media, and where anything seen in colour must be true, and as long as the muppets of the world have something to copycat the will continue to do so because our retarded PC world has given them the right to do so. Only a return to, in your view draconian, regulation will fix that, because personal responsibility sure as shit hasnt.

[NONONO]

It IS the Bishop.......
"Only a return to Draconian legislation will fix that" FFS!
Running for the hills, begin!