Advice please: Bike oils, Car oils?

[Woodman]

seriously..lots

Thanks, now i know.

[Coolz]

[QUOTE=cowpoos;1130252198]Oil quality is a major contributor to your engine’s performance and life. Always select good quality engine oil.
Suzuki recommends the use of SUZUKI PERFORMANCE 4 MOTOR OIL or equivalent engine oil. Use of
SF/SG or SH/SJ in API with MA in JASO.
Suzuki recommends the use of SAE 10W-40 engine oil. If SAE 10W-40 engine oil is not available, select an
alternative according to the following chart.


That is word for word what it says in my 91 Suzuki vx800 owners manual. Last oil change I used a 10-40 semi synthetic oil. My bike now has a horrendous noise coming from the gearbox which I have been told is a stuffed bearing in the bevel drive unit. This could be just wear and tear on a 70,000k engine but I have an uneasy feeling I could have caused this by changing from my normal mineral oil. I have been searching the web for information on oil and everyone seems to have a diferent and often contrary opionon. A real can of worms.

[jonbuoy]

Firstly there is no specification for bike oils. The SAE (socioety of automotive engineers) have never produced one. All the bike makers simply tell you to use a good quality car oil, I might suggest they know best.

There have not been any friction modified engine oils available for ages, the boundary lubricants polute catalitic converters.

All quality motor oils have dual petrol Sx and diesel Cx ratings. Oils after SG are "low ash" and compatible with cats from memory oils after SH are energy efficient as well.

The only issues with std automotive oils in bikes is the VI (viscosity index) addative, which looks like gorilla snot and is the stringy chemical that makes a 20 weight base stock oil behave like a 40 weight oil when itis hot (ie 20W40) is chopped up by the gear boxes in bikes. Its not shear stable. As the oil ages it thins when it is hot and the gear boxes get notchy, thats why new oil always feels better in the box and why oil change intervals will always be closer in bikes than in cars.

I am a great fan of commercial mixed fleet oils, bulk 10-20 litre packs save me money and my vehicles get more oil chages. I run the same 15W40 Valvolene mixed fleet lube in all my vehicles.

The most important thing is that the oil has a high S rating, SG is good. What the 15W40 numbers means is the oil viscosity behaves like a 15 weight oil at 40 deg C and a 40 weight oil at 100 deg C. There is fuck all diference between a 15W40 and a 20W50 one, they are both fine for use in New Zealand. All motor oils are missible in an emergency, one of the SAE requirements is that they can mix, but if you mix a 30W40 with Mobil 1 the oil you now have is no better than 30W40

Don't ever buy a oil with a flash holographic label or in some fancy bottle, you are wasting your money. Don't buy an oil that you can't get at your local service station.

Get your clutch adjusted it does not sound to me like a oil problem to me.

Read this....... http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm

Not sure about there being no difference between 15W40 and 20W50, try pouring 20W50 on a cool morning - pretty gloopy stuff, visible difference to the 15W40.

[Kickaha]

Oil quality is a major contributor to your engine’s performance and life. Always select good quality engine oil.
Suzuki recommends the use of SUZUKI PERFORMANCE 4 MOTOR OIL or equivalent engine oil. Use of
SF/SG or SH/SJ in API with MA in JASO.
Suzuki recommends the use of SAE 10W-40 engine oil. If SAE 10W-40 engine oil is not available, select an
alternative according to the following chart.




as above from the manual...Suzuki performance 4 motor oil....I can email you the manual... K5 K6 gsxr 1000...

Doesn't say anything about "Motorcycle oil" in the above it says engine oil, SUZUKI PERFORMANCE 4 MOTOR OIL will just be something else rebranded

SF/SG etc can all be found on "Car Oils"

[TimeOut]

Not sure about there being no difference between 15W40 and 20W50, try pouring 20W50 on a cool morning - pretty gloopy stuff, visible difference to the 15W40.

Yep and cold starts are when most engine wear happens made even worse by those thicker when cold grades

[sinfull]

Thanks for the advice guys.
Well, I finally bought some Castrol 4T 10W40 semi-synth, but now the oil drain bung bolt won't budge.
Crap time of day to be lacking an 18mm socket or ring spanner! :/
Always tomorrow I guess.

When you get up this morning and read through the battle of oils, do so with a jar of very strong acid, take that cresent you were trying to undo your drain plug with and submerce it in said acid !

Then go back to super cheap and buy some tools for your bike !

Change your oil and adjust the clutch lever ! Dont swing on the drain plug to do it up this time, it has a crimp washer there for a reason ! There will even be a torque setting for said drain plug in a manual !

[pritch]

Some of the manuals I originally quoted are from the eighties

Well, technology has moved on exponentially since then. Back then we didn't have big screen TVs, iPods, or a whole bunch of other stuff.

In most cases synthetic oils aren't just marketing hype, although in the instances of Castrol and Shell there is a question mark. Castrol convinced a judge that their oil was "synthetic" so they could call it that. Their definition of synthetic was different to the industry standard used by Mobil, Motul, Amsoil, and others.

If you want to know the difference read that link I posted. It's a long, sometimes rambling thread, but "George" was a lubrication engineer who owned bikes and rode on the track. He knew that of which he wrote.

[MSTRS:Me]

Thanks for the advice guys.
Well, I finally bought some Castrol 4T 10W40 semi-synth, but now the oil drain bung bolt won't budge.
Crap time of day to be lacking an 18mm socket or ring spanner! :/
Always tomorrow I guess.

Then go back to super cheap and buy some tools for your bike !

Change your oil and adjust the clutch lever ! Dont swing on the drain plug to do it up this time, it has a crimp washer there for a reason ! There will even be a torque setting for said drain plug in a manual !

Seen it before...
The sump plug is 'upside down' and inexperienced spanner wielders forget to 'turn the other way'. Therefore they are tightening that bolt!! Which is real good for the helicoil in the casing.

Car oil or bike oil? Is a car engine oil used in a car gearbox? No, I hear you say. That's good enough for me.

[Owl]

Doesn't say anything about "Motorcycle oil" in the above it says engine oil, SUZUKI PERFORMANCE 4 MOTOR OIL will just be something else rebranded

SF/SG etc can all be found on "Car Oils"

But it does say "JASO MA", which is motorcycle specific without friction modifiers. JASO-MB is motorcycle specific with friction modifiers.

[aum108]

When you get up this morning and read through the battle of oils, do so with a jar of very strong acid, take that cresent you were trying to undo your drain plug with and submerce it in said acid!

Yeah, there are places where a crescent was never meant to go. :P

Then go back to super cheap and buy some tools for your bike !

A $4 17mm socket did the trick just nicely

Change your oil and adjust the clutch lever!

Turned out it wasn't the clutch lever. After a few km with the new oil (10W40 semisynth) the clutch drag is gone.

Dont swing on the drain plug to do it up this time, it has a crimp washer there for a reason ! There will even be a torque setting for said drain plug in a manual !

This is the first time I've touched the drain plug. The previous owner('s mechanic) was the one who jumped on the breaker bar doing it up last time!

[aum108]

Seen it before...
The sump plug is 'upside down' and inexperienced spanner wielders forget to 'turn the other way'. Therefore they are tightening that bolt!! Which is real good for the helicoil in the casing.

Nice... try!!!

Maybe I should have given it full-force clockwise. Would have led me into gaining skills into tapping new threads! :P

As it happens, I just copped out and forced it anticlockwise. One really hard pull of the wrench, a metallic 'crack' sound, and the bolt was free.

[MSTRS:Me]

Nice... try!!!

Maybe I should have given it full-force clockwise. Would have led me into gaining skills into tapping new threads! :P

As it happens, I just copped out and forced it anticlockwise. One really hard pull of the wrench, a metallic 'crack' sound, and the bolt was free.

Try? Nah mate - it's true. You'd be amazed.
And that 'crack' sound followed by a bolt that turns quite freely...also more common than you'd think.

[Flip]

I found this interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil , espcially the comment "All the current gasoline categories (including the obsolete SH), have placed limitations on the phosphorus content for certain SAE viscosity grades (the xW-20, xW-30) due to the chemical poisoning that phosphorus has on catalytic converters. Phosphorus is a key anti-wear component in motor oil and is usually found in motor oil in the form of Zinc dithiophosphate. Each new API category has placed successively lower phosphorus and zinc limits, and thus has created a controversial issue obsolescing oils needed for older engines, especially engines with sliding (flat/cleave) tappets. API, and ILSAC, which represents most of the worlds major automobile/engine manufactures, states API SM/ILSAC GF-4 is fully backwards compatible, and it is noted that one of the engine tests required for API SM, the Sequence IVA, is a sliding tappet design to test specifically for cam wear protection. However, not everyone is in agreement with backwards compatibility, and in addition, there are special situations, such as "performance" engines or fully race built engines, where the engine protection requirements are above and beyond API/ILSAC requirements. Because of this, there are specialty oils out in the market place with higher than API allowed phosphorus levels. Most engines built before 1985 have the flat/cleave bearing style systems of construction, which is sensitive to reducing zinc and phosphorus. Example; in API SG rated oils, this was at the 1200-1300 ppm level for zincs and phosphorus, where the current SM is under 600 ppm. This reduction in anti-wear chemicals in oil has caused premature failures of camshafts and other high pressure bearings in many older automobiles and has been blamed for pre-mature failure of the oil pump drive/cam position sensor gear that is meshed with camshaft gear in some modern engines."

The JASO T904-2006 also made for interesting reading being a set of tests for wet clutch compatability, http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV0604.pdf but it is an addittional test on a good quality car motor oil and not a specific motorcycle oil. This also made interesting reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_oil.

[Woodman]

Turned out it wasn't the clutch lever. After a few km with the new oil (10W40 semisynth) the clutch drag is gone.:

Thinking your clutch is sensitive to viscosity like my old xl as I mentioned in previous post.

My klr clutch doesn't change from using a 10w40 to a 40w70 which I used to try and fix an oil burning issue.

Getting hard to find SG or lesser grade oils now. Most brands are now bringing SN oils to the market.

[nosebleed]

When you've read this you will know more than the guy at the bike shop...

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/...motor-oil.html

Thats a great read man, thanks.
Only 20 pages through atm but I've got what I need so far. Just hoping theres something more as I work towards the 60-odd mark.