Mini-motard for bucket racing?

[avgas]

Your point was insipid. TS's were farm & play bikes & most were road registered.

The XR range at the time was an ill conceived idea by Honda that they could build a 4 stroke enduro, when clearly 2 strokes were lighter & more powerful. It was folly, but they pressed ahead & there you go. The 185s/200s 250s & 500s were marketed as Enduro bikes. heck in NZ they even had a 'competition exemption' for not having to run indicators. Think you'll still find it on our WOF rules somewhere.

The issue is; does that tar the smaller capacity bikes with the same brush? Before I would have said yes. Now I don't know.

Yes and No.
Back then you had F-all choice. You wanted a 125........very few 'road only' models available. Most trail/enduro bikes were reg'd......otherwise you got a motorcross bike.

So if a trail bike from 30 years ago race in buckets, why not one from now? Were they only let in the first place because back then there wasn't much choice?

Hell the motard concept wasn't even popular until a decade ago. Were the rules changed before or after motards became popular?

[Yow Ling]

Yes and No.
Back then you had F-all choice. You wanted a 125........very few 'road only' models available. Most trail/enduro bikes were reg'd......otherwise you got a motorcross bike.

So if a trail bike from 30 years ago race in buckets, why not one from now? Were they only let in the first place because back then there wasn't much choice?

Hell the motard concept wasn't even popular until a decade ago. Were the rules changed before or after motards became popular?

Is that you Drew?

[F5 Dave]

Technically speaking - Buckets didn't have many rules until about 15+ years ago. That was the attraction of them. Bucket racing was where men could be men, and women could also be men. Even leathers were optional.
Backyard heroes and the like.
People raced the dodgiest, rustiest POS they had.
Bucket class was for the bikes (and the riders) who didn't quite fit in elsewhere. Their bikes were too small for dirt/track racing, and they were too pissed/fat to go 250 class.
Sadly I feel most of that Nostalgia died when people started racing "bits of kit" in buckets in late 90's. Now its all "rules and regulation" - may as well call it the 140 gp class.

Both Jason & I were racing 20 years ago & that isn't our recollection at all.

Technically speaking there were bloody so rules. Rules were largely as they are now (I have old MNZ rulebooks in black & white from then) - just aircooled 125s added & 4 strokes got a 25cc bump up some years back.

[F5 Dave]

Yes and No.
Back then you had F-all choice. You wanted a 125........very few 'road only' models available. Most trail/enduro bikes were reg'd......otherwise you got a motorcross bike.

So if a trail bike from 30 years ago race in buckets, why not one from now? Were they only let in the first place because back then there wasn't much choice?

Hell the motard concept wasn't even popular until a decade ago. Were the rules changed before or after motards became popular?

Well you couldn't ride a 125 2 stroke in buckets back then, just 100s & TF & TS were std fare. They were tamely ported & reliable for many road miles as well as carting a sheep over the back paddocks for whatever farmers did to sheep in back paddocks.


Have a look inside a TM or early RM engine (& I have) & they are considerably different, even if you can fit a TM barrel on the top of an early (pre reed) TS. They were built for competition & didn't last like a road/play engine.

I mean the concept is quite simple. They wanted to exclude MX engines as it would become a little Johnny gets a MX80 & slots it into a chassis & makes all the TS's & MB100s obsolete, so then someone else buys this years MX & so on. Clearly they thought oh well bettter exclude enduro, & kart engines for the same reason. + those hot up racing kits made for commuter bikes for the Asian racing market that the Airforce boys could get their hands on. The concept is still valid. the rules haven't changed.

[crazy man]

Both Jason & I were racing 20 years ago & that isn't our recollection at all.

Tecnically speaking the Rules were largely as they are now (I have old MNZ rulebooks in black & white from then) just aircooled 125s added & 4 strokes got a 25cc bump up.

that is the only 2 rules l know off to which have changed

[F5 Dave]

Well they dicked around with petrol when they reformatted the manual & got it a bit cocked up, but that got sorted out. Other thing is they made pistons & Cams open.

[crazy man]

what is the story with av gas l know once it only could be used with a 100cc four stroke . now seems ok to use with all ?

[F5 Dave]

Av is ok & has been for many years. For a while we got lumped in with Production racing specs, but that was a mistake & corrected. theoretically you couldn't even mix 2 stroke oil with the gas.

[jasonu]

Both Jason & I were racing 20 years ago & that isn't our recollection at all.

Agreed

Technically speaking there were bloody so rules. Rules were largely as they are now (I have old MNZ rulebooks in black & white from then) - just aircooled 125s added & 4 strokes got a 25cc bump up some years back.

Undisputable

Well you couldn't ride a 125 2 stroke in buckets back then, just 100s & TF & TS were std fare. They were tamely ported & reliable for many road miles as well as carting a sheep over the back paddocks for whatever farmers did to sheep in back paddocks.

Factual (125 2t's were not allowed until the late 90's)

Have a look inside a TM or early RM engine (& I have) & they are considerably different, even if you can fit a TM barrel on the top of an early (pre reed) TS. They were built for competition & didn't last like a road/play engine.

Yep
I mean the concept is quite simple. They wanted to exclude MX engines as it would become a little Johnny gets a MX80 & slots it into a chassis & makes all the TS's & MB100s obsolete, so then someone else buys this years MX & so on. Clearly they thought oh well bettter exclude enduro, & kart engines for the same reason. + those hot up racing kits made for commuter bikes for the Asian racing market that the Airforce boys could get their hands on. The concept is still valid. the rules haven't changed.

That is how it was described to me by some of those who were involved in the beginning.

that is the only 2 rules l know off to which have changed

Correct

what is the story with av gas l know once it only could be used with a 100cc four stroke . now seems ok to use with all ?

As I remember it av was alowed when, in the mid 90's, the petrol companies started importing petrol from Singapore (or someother asian shithole) and it didn't like to be burnt inside high performance 2 strokes (mine didn't like it) so as an alternative Av was allowed.

Technically speaking - Buckets didn't have many rules until about 15+ years ago.

Crap, except for a couple of afore mentioned changes the rules are as they have been for a long time.

That was the attraction of them. Bucket racing was where men could be men, and women could also be men. Even leathers were optional.

As long as I have been involved proper gear has always been mandatory.

Backyard heroes and the like.
People raced the dodgiest, rustiest POS they had.

True then and now.

Bucket class was for the bikes (and the riders) who didn't quite fit in elsewhere. Their bikes were too small for dirt/track racing, and they were too pissed/fat to go 250 class.

Disagree, Buckets has always been a stand alone class, not some sort of orphan throw back for no hopers or fatties. (well not always)...

Sadly I feel most of that Nostalgia died when people started racing "bits of kit" in buckets in late 90's. Now its all "rules and regulation" - may as well call it the 140 gp class.

Maybe, I don't know but it can certainly be quickly fucked up with a couple of rule changes.

[mossy1200]

what would you do if glen w gets into buckets

Get beat. The point I was making is I didnt want to be competitive and would like to blat a mini motard style bike around in b grade and not be tempted to start spending money I cant afford. Just doing it is good enough as a social event. Im more focussed on house savings and 3k+ for a fast well set up bucket doesnt fit the plan at the moment. Maybe after buying the house ill revisit the idea. The bike im talking about is a air cooled chinese 150 4 stroke prob 10hp. Im just curious why a loncin motor is ok when its listed on their website as a cart and dirt bike motor and the bike in question although newer than a xl isnt alot different engine wise.

[jasonu]

Get beat. The point I was making is I didnt want to be competitive and would like to blat a mini motard style bike around in b grade and not be tempted to start spending money I cant afford. Just doing it is good enough as a social event. Im more focussed on house savings and 3k+ for a fast well set up bucket doesnt fit the plan at the moment. Maybe after buying the house ill revisit the idea. The bike im talking about is a air cooled chinese 150 4 stroke prob 10hp. Im just curious why a loncin motor is ok when its listed on their website as a cart and dirt bike motor and the bike in question although newer than a xl isnt alot different engine wise.

But I have seen numerous LEGAL and potentially COMPETITIVE FXR150's for sale on Tardme for not much more than a grand.

[crazy man]

Get beat. The point I was making is I didnt want to be competitive and would like to blat a mini motard style bike around in b grade and not be tempted to start spending money I cant afford. Just doing it is good enough as a social event. Im more focussed on house savings and 3k+ for a fast well set up bucket doesnt fit the plan at the moment. Maybe after buying the house ill revisit the idea. The bike im talking about is a air cooled chinese 150 4 stroke prob 10hp. Im just curious why a loncin motor is ok when its listed on their website as a cart and dirt bike motor and the bike in question although newer than a xl isnt alot different engine wise.

l think it does not cost much to be a top A grader on a gocart track if your a good rider but on the bigger gp tracks its were you need a faster better handleing bike which costs lots of time or money

[Kickaha]

Well they dicked around with petrol when they reformatted the manual & got it a bit cocked up,

They should have let four strokes run methanol while they were at it

[F5 Dave]

. . .The bike im talking about is a air cooled chinese 150 4 stroke prob 10hp. . .

So would likely blow up & cost heaps. Find a crashed FXR or someone getting out of buckets. That lonchin the Safa was selling seemed to be ok after he fixed its issues. Buy a shitter & be dissappointed with its performance & useability. Buy a 1k bike & get racing safely & not held back. That shitbox will sell for a lot more than $250 it is currently.

[Yow Ling]

This bucket was sold for $1200 last week, another 150 for tyres and its done, legal and capable of running up near front