Welfare support and drug testing

[Str8 Jacket]

Strange how this debate sparking issue happens to be let loose as the asset sale thingy is being done eh?

Ha, there is no coincidence. Remember when things were "passed under urgency" during the ChCh earthquake and Pike River disaster..... Distract the people and then they'll only find out once it's too late.

[imdying]

if the only reason you're not working is because you're failing a drug test because of recreational drug use, we think that's unacceptable and the Government is going to do something about that.

Yeah that's not entirely unreasonable, although I doubt that they could or would be able to narrow it down that finely.

We are getting off topic.

What this is about is, 'if drugs / alcohol are the only reason you can't get/hold a job and are not a registered addict then you cannot expect a benefit. Simple as that.

Fair call too. I would like to add though, if not a benefit, then that shouldn't mean abandonment, those people should still be given help in other ways.

But I still cannot agree with no benefit just because you have smoked a joint at some point in the last month (or whatever the test is able to look back to). That does not define an addict.

[imdying]

Nope, my "sweeping generalisations" & opinions on the behaviour of stoners was well & truly developed at least 15 years before this thead existed.
4th rule of stoner arguing, if the opponent has you beat, call him an idiot without any explination & hope othors are to stupid to notice.

Bob, I have to apologise for the way I attacked you earlier in the thread, it wasn't productive. Having said that, your completely inflexible point of view isn't going to move the debate towards a solution. You seem a little angry, I'd suggest a joint but I suspect you might find that a little inflamatory.

Student loans is another big problem.

Need to see loans given to those only willing to study useful degrees, and see allowances given to those who are clean (of drugs) and who put in the proportionate number of hours.

I get $242pw for 91 hours, arts students get $242pw for 4 hours.

I should be able to pay my loan off in 2 or 3 years, arts students never will.

I also work part time, pay tax (even pay off a bit of my loan as I go).

That's what is wrong with studnt loan lending in New Zealand.

Start a thread. I used a student loan to quadruple what the government takes from me in tax per annum, and I've paid it off, so it's a system I'm actually quite grateful for. I would have done it without having it available, but it made it a whole heap easier.

Just remember, even though you apparently put little to no value on the arts, value is still generated. You simply cannot measure everything in dollars and cents.

[onearmedbandit]

Yes yes, but the amazing maze of fantastic arty connections that are going on inside the average pot users brain can make any two completely irrelevant tangents connect with total relevance you see!!!
The other key thing to remember when discussing anything with a pot user is that its all a huge conspiricay man!!, the government is just out to get us all.
The other thing that pot heads always kid themselves with continually, is that they are super mellow & cruisey.
They may well feel that way, but I have seen more than the usual amount of angry outbursts & an overwhelming need to justify their point of view fron the stoner brigade.

Nope, my "sweeping generalisations" & opinions on the behaviour of stoners was well & truly developed at least 15 years before this thead existed.
4th rule of stoner arguing, if the opponent has you beat, call him an idiot without any explination & hope othors are to stupid to notice.

All the explanation you need is in the post quoted above. To make sweeping generalisations like the ones you did takes either ignorance or just plain old stupidity. I know many smokers who don't fit in with what you have stated. In fact I bet you do too, you just don't know they are smokers. Either because they don't want anyone to know, due to the stigma associated with it, or because they know how narrow minded you are and don't want to hear your shit.

4th rule of stoner arguing? Don't make me laugh. Got me beat? Now I know you're trying to make me laugh.

Actually I should probably give up arguing with you. Have you informed BMW that they have mistakenly sold their 4.0l V8's as 4.4l units? I remember how certain you were back then as well. You were wrong in that instance as well. At least you are consistant.

[oneofsix]

Student loans is another big problem.

Need to see loans given to those only willing to study useful degrees, and see allowances given to those who are clean (of drugs) and who put in the proportionate number of hours.

I get $242pw for 91 hours, arts students get $242pw for 4 hours.

I should be able to pay my loan off in 2 or 3 years, arts students never will.

I also work part time, pay tax (even pay off a bit of my loan as I go).

That's what is wrong with studnt loan lending in New Zealand.

I can just see that "arts students" causing confusing between artists and those studying a BA. Which do you mean? And do you mean that Margaret Mahey, Ian McCann, Sir Peter Jackson aren't worth anything? to name but a few 'artists'.
Some of the best artist produce their best works stoned, is that the link to the topic?

[Paul in NZ]

I can just see that "arts students" causing confusing between artists and those studying a BA. Which do you mean? And do you mean that Margaret Mahey, Ian McCann, Sir Peter Jackson aren't worth anything? to name but a few 'artists'.
Some of the best artist produce their best works stoned, is that the link to the topic?

Or my daughters with BA/Bteach who work in education - (its a calling for them)

[avgas]

Student loans is another big problem.

Need to see loans given to those only willing to study useful degrees, and see allowances given to those who are clean (of drugs) and who put in the proportionate number of hours.

I get $242pw for 91 hours, arts students get $242pw for 4 hours.

I should be able to pay my loan off in 2 or 3 years, arts students never will.

I also work part time, pay tax (even pay off a bit of my loan as I go).

That's what is wrong with studnt loan lending in New Zealand.

Fuck you must be sitting pretty. It was only a few years ago where I had to put $150/week on loan to pay my rent/power/phone/gas/rego........I had to work to eat.
I am not a fan of art students - but I have met a few in my life who ended up ditching the art thing and becoming useful members of society. So probably not best to make a generalizations.

As for paying off loans. Fuck your lucky if you can pay it off in a few years. Took me about 7 years to pay off my engineering one. My MBA will take another 3. I pay extra every week so I can get it out of the way (about $170/week).

I personally think the loan scheme is ok. If people want to fuck themselves for life - let them go for it. If its not a govt loan they will simply borrow from Credit Union to support their studies. Its the student allowance scheme I have issue with. Either make it a blanket agreement thing, or no one gets it.
Imagine not getting an unemployment or sickness benefit if your parents earned over $70K. Fucking joke.

[Brian d marge]

there was a time when you didnt have to use , or have a student loan ...I wonder why it changed .........

Stephen


biggest con job in the history of man

[sidecar bob]

Bob, I have to apologise for the way I attacked you earlier in the thread, it wasn't productive. Having said that, your completely inflexible point of view isn't going to move the debate towards a solution. You seem a little angry, I'd suggest a joint but I suspect you might find that a little inflamatory.

Its raining, I was bored, an inflexible viewpoint was mainly for entertainment, no offence taken.
FYI I was a mega stoner in my 20's, looking back it was a bad time & not something I would care to repeat.

[mashman]

How the fuck do you possibly join those two together?

If you want the $$ here are the criteria. There are already a bunch of qualifiers around getting a handout?

What you are saying is so crazy I think you are trolling (or insane)

Pretty simple really. Do as you are told or we will take something off you. The dole is a human right in my book, especially if the "market" isn't going to provide well paying jobs.

Aye, criteria that never existed until some fuckwit in a blue tie decided that that's the way it should be. Yes there are and I'd much rather they were given the hand out to do with what they would like, than to push something upon them because there aren't enough jobs to go around. Rather that than having someone stay clean for a week, taking a job that they have no intention of keeping let alone putting any effort into and then going back to getting stoned as and when they feel. It's the same as the speed camera scam. We take our foot off the throttle if we know it's there, but it really doesn't change a damned thing... other than a human right has been lost and a bucket of cash disappears into yet another useless scheme. What a bunch of geniuses... but then it ain't surprising politicians get away with useless policy when people will roll over and just take what's being peddled. I donlt see this as a positive move on many fronts, quite the opposite.

Bit of the first, lashings of the last.

[scumdog]

Pretty simple really. Do as you are told or we will take something off you. The dole is a human right in my book, especially if the "market" isn't going to provide well paying jobs.

Great.

Let's ALL stop work and execute our right to be on the dole...,

[mashman]

Great.

Let's ALL stop work and execute our right to be on the dole...,

that has been an option for decades... although it seems that some people have forgotten that... and you of all people inciting mass doling, you just wanna get yer baton out doncha?

[Madness]

I was sick once. You seen the shit they play on telly during the day? Bugger that.

[Ocean1]

The dole is a human right in my book,

You write fiction, wouldn't recognise reality if it bit you on the arse.

For the record: The dole is charity, try to be thankful to those who give you your daily bread. Try not to impose on their generosity too long.

[Oscar]

Aye, criteria that never existed until some fuckwit in a blue tie decided that that's the way it should be.

It was the voters who decided, and since you didn't vote you've proven your indifference, you heartless bastard.