Ta
One rule for every track. A red flagged race ALWAYS means continue right round the circuit slowly and form up in the pit lane dummy grid.
The confusion I'm reading about here is caused solely by Vic club as far as I've read.
I feel there is no recourse on riders doing what we are all meant to be fluent in, the rule boom.
Registered User
Bingo as I stated above,Will contact them tonight,Also its rule book not BOOM,Dont want to confuse them further LOLOriginally Posted by Drew
Glen Williams
Agreed, do you wanna volunteer to be the bouncer on the door Ian ?
Glen Williams
Geez Billy , you havent perchance found something on KB to take note of have you ?, Nice spotting of that spelling mistake too, - totally unaaceptable......... :-)
Registered User
The rule book does indeed say a full lap is required under red flag. Seems silly to me to make everyone ride through the incident when it can be avoided but that's the rule.
Several things are clear after Saturday:
1. Not everyone listened at Riders Briefing.
2. Not everyone knows the rule book. (There should have been questions if they did)
3. Even officials get it wrong.
I am at fault for part of the mess on Saturday. In hindsight it was unclear to the riders (perfectly clear to me... I knew what I wanted and was saying on the radio. That didn't translate well into hand signals unfortunately). Lesson learnt.
We have been saying that with a red flag to use the slip road if possible. Our reasons are to clear half the track so we can get at the incident promptly (should it be in that part of the circuit). Does anyone really want to ride past what may be a nasty incident and (maybe) hold up the ambulance?
We will be reviewing the practice of the slip road use. We will NOT use it with RED FLAG incidents. I would like to continue to use it at the end of races simply because we can fit more in the programme. The flag marshal at Point Four should not go onto the track. I can't tell if they do or not sometimes due to the sun and the camber. They should stop near the edge of the track. As I said we are going to review it and this may or may not change.
But we CANNOT use the slip road with a RED FLAG incident.
Jay: Most of the marshal's are trained and qualified. Sometimes the communication is suspect. There was a lot going on over the radio and it was hard to tell who was saying what. That's why it looked like there was trouble with the gate etc...
As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc.
Ta
No one is attacking you, don't get defensive.The rule book does indeed say a full lap is required under red flag. Seems silly to me to make everyone ride through the incident when it can be avoided but that's the rule.
Several things are clear after Saturday:
1. Not everyone listened at Riders Briefing.
2. Not everyone knows the rule book. (There should have been questions if they did
3. Even officials get it wrong.
I am at fault for part of the mess on Saturday. In hindsight it was unclear to the riders (perfectly clear to me... I knew what I wanted and was saying on the radio. That didn't translate well into hand signals unfortunately). Lesson learnt.
We have been saying that with a red flag to use the slip road if possible. Our reasons are to clear half the track so we can get at the incident promptly (should it be in that part of the circuit). Does anyone really want to ride past what may be a nasty incident and (maybe) hold up the ambulance?
We will be reviewing the practice of the slip road use. We will NOT use it with RED FLAG incidents. I would like to continue to use it at the end of races simply because we can fit more in the programme. The flag marshal at Point Four should not go onto the track. I can't tell if they do or not sometimes due to the sun and the camber. They should stop near the edge of the track. As I said we are going to review it and this may or may not change.
But we CANNOT use the slip road with a RED FLAG incident.
Jay: Most of the marshal's are trained and qualified. Sometimes the communication is suspect. There was a lot going on over the radio and it was hard to tell who was saying what. That's why it looked like there was trouble with the gate etc...
As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc.
Re riding past the the incedent. It happens everywhere else.
Re the marshal qualifications. I am shocked that MNZ have introduced a rule that is less than introduced something that hasn't been entirely thought out. Why bring a rule about not being allowed to flag without qualifications, and then offer no way to get qualified till AFTER the nats are finished? Fuckin dumb I reckon.
Enjoys doing what he does
PM sent SkunkAs of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc.
Ta
To those of us not getting a PM, this looks a lot like..."We've fucked up, lets talk about it in private".
Ideal since poor ol' Skunk is hanging out to dry with the red flag/slip road issue.
Enjoys doing what he does
No not at all Drew,
I was advising Skunk how we (AMCC) have managed to arrange a Flaggies seminar/training at our club rooms for those that didn't make the pre arranged dates sorted by MNZ.
For all clubs out there just get in touch with MNZ and see what can be sorted.
At the end of the day its two hours taken to get everybody accredited/qualified.
Ta
My bad.
I really have no idea why you guys do what ya do, fuck if I'd give up so much time for arseholes like me to poke sticks at.
Sick cunts!
Registered User
OR if Skunk was to visit the MNZ website,He would see that additional officials training has been organised for the 15th of September in Palmerston North,To cater for those who are short of marshalls
Hardcore Biker
Ask Robbie Bugden if its just R1's that do that Jay!To be honest, the more I think about this the more I agree with Chop...not so much from a safety point of view in that I expect bikes to be coming across this point out of control as I think that is not likely unless you have Mr Sheriff's doing the out of control, but more that it would then be standardised - everyone knows you do a full warm down lap then return to the pits. As seen during the aborted F1 start last weekend, the marshall got the call to put us through the slip road too late and basically ran on track with bikes going quickly and expecting to do a full lap - there were various speeds and levels of confusion in just that 5 sec period. That Chappy said he experienced the same and it actually put him off the tarmac to me suggests that until we have a marshalling structure that is formalised and full time (read, never) - not that I am digging on our volenteers as they do a great job - it's just that at a traffic control level on track we need a very high standard which that point at the hairpin really requires. Andrew/Skunk has a good overview and can see a lot from the control tower, but not everything, and to me that's where that decision making ability is needed at track level. This is also required now for the flag at end of pitlane, and more than once already that flag and the start/finish one haven't agreed (as far as I have been told anyway). To me, it is best to take that decision away, and make everyone do a full lap, even if it does cost a little time...
Also, I'm riding an R1 and they DON'T cool when standing still, so I could do without that wait...
Registered User
Hey Drew, not getting defensive at all. Just admitting a mistake has been make and trying to make it clear what will happen in future. Safety is the key here.
Registered User
So there is! I will pass this info on. Would have been better having it at Manfield on the Saturday of our two day meeting but we can't have everything.
Forum whore
Hey Andrew, don't take it to heart eh? You and your crew do a great job considering you are basically trying to herd cats (racers) all day long.The rule book does indeed say a full lap is required under red flag. Seems silly to me to make everyone ride through the incident when it can be avoided but that's the rule.
Several things are clear after Saturday:
1. Not everyone listened at Riders Briefing.
2. Not everyone knows the rule book. (There should have been questions if they did
3. Even officials get it wrong.
I am at fault for part of the mess on Saturday. In hindsight it was unclear to the riders (perfectly clear to me... I knew what I wanted and was saying on the radio. That didn't translate well into hand signals unfortunately). Lesson learnt.
We have been saying that with a red flag to use the slip road if possible. Our reasons are to clear half the track so we can get at the incident promptly (should it be in that part of the circuit). Does anyone really want to ride past what may be a nasty incident and (maybe) hold up the ambulance?
We will be reviewing the practice of the slip road use. We will NOT use it with RED FLAG incidents. I would like to continue to use it at the end of races simply because we can fit more in the programme. The flag marshal at Point Four should not go onto the track. I can't tell if they do or not sometimes due to the sun and the camber. They should stop near the edge of the track. As I said we are going to review it and this may or may not change.
But we CANNOT use the slip road with a RED FLAG incident.
Jay: Most of the marshal's are trained and qualified. Sometimes the communication is suspect. There was a lot going on over the radio and it was hard to tell who was saying what. That's why it looked like there was trouble with the gate etc...
As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc.
FYI, I work in a noisy industry/environment where radio comm's are our primary means of communication and woopsy's at best result in "oh fuck" moments but at worst it's Piper Alpha/BP's Gulf of Mexico all over again. Ian's onto a good thing with controlling your environment, gawd knows we've had some shit go down and it's just complicated (or worse, missed altogether) when a group of blokes are yuckin' it up in the background. It takes a bit of discipline from the folks in the field too: if it concerns you you'll either know what's going on or the controller will speak/radio to you directly. It doesn't help if 5 people are offering different solutions and the other 5 are asking what's going on. The guy in the big chair has the big picture, so needs to be given radio space to make whatever is wrong right again.
Sorry, don't mean to tell you how to suck eggs, I wasn't even there. I just know we drill/exercise stuff every second week offshore and 9 years down the track we still get learnings coming out, so it's gonna be even harder for you and your stirling band of volunteers only getting together every so often. At the end of the day you've had a great learning opportunity where nobody was hurt so just take what you can from it and keep up the good work.
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