18 months on your Restricted no matter your age and Basic Handling from 1 November

[Glowerss]

Bummer that they didnt keep the DDC course running for those already in the system, I've never had any accidents or traffic infringements..YET..

One of the main reasons I need my full, is so that I don't have this stupid restriction about riding at night as I tend to need the bike at night.

What Drew said. Getting a nighttime exemption is well it's a pain in the ass as you have to get your boss to state you work these hours and the exemptionm only applies on the certain days/times you say youll need it. It's still stupidly anal.

Conversely, just don't get pulled over. Then you have an exemption without applying for one! Shit I've been riding a 400 on my L ever since I heard about LAMS and didn't feel like spending 4k for a beaten to death 250. Just don't ride like a prick and it shouldn't be a problem.

[Surferdave]

Actually, I did give detailed feed back when the systems in place were being reviewed. I did so in constructive ways, explaining my reasons for ideas put faorward.

I wouldn't bother doing such on here, and if you had read two years worth of this place as you say, you would know damned well why.

I have no issue with the LAMS list on the whole, there are a couple bikes on there that shouldn't be, and a few aren't that should be.

You can continue trying to make out I said something I didn't, or you can get over it man. I'm happy either way, if we're gonna start shit slinging proper though, you need some better material. My 13 year old daughter is more offensive than you are.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, yeah, you are bringing the intellect back to this thread big time!

Care to point out just what went over my head? After a re-read I am confident I correctly replied, to point out your sarcasm was way off target. Oh yeah, look up "quip", you're not using it right.

The former part of your 1st post I'm quoting here, is why it went over your head. I wasn't so much as refering to the LAMS inasmuch that I was using it to create the acronym from drew, (hence the quip, which I can post the definition here if you really want...) which sums up your attitude that every person currently going through the licensing process is an idiot and is getting in by a loop hole (Wtf? It was the law which is about to be changed unless I'm mistaken, not a loop hole. You can get your license in X amount of time depending on age and ddc's done etc now being changed), and therefore unsafe to be on the road riding. Hence why I made a quip in the form of an acronym that Drew thinks there are dickheads riding everywhere, except him, and because your so involved in gassing on about it they should've named the new system after you because your input is just too valuable, hence the sarcasm (again rightly implied as to being a quip).

All in all I must apologise to you though as I have broken 1 of my life rules which is to never make fun of intellectually handicapped people. So I am really sorry for all the negative and nasty things I have said about you, it's not your fault you're retarded.

[Drew]

The former part of your 1st post I'm quoting here, is why it went over your head. I wasn't so much as refering to the LAMS inasmuch that I was using it to create the acronym from drew, (hence the quip, which I can post the definition here if you really want...) which sums up your attitude that every person currently going through the licensing process is an idiot and is getting in by a loop hole (Wtf? It was the law which is about to be changed unless I'm mistaken, not a loop hole. You can get your license in X amount of time depending on age and ddc's done etc now being changed), and therefore unsafe to be on the road riding. Hence why I made a quip in the form of an acronym that Drew thinks there are dickheads riding everywhere, except him, and because your so involved in gassing on about it they should've named the new system after you because your input is just too valuable, hence the sarcasm (again rightly implied as to being a quip).

All in all I must apologise to you though as I have broken 1 of my life rules which is to never make fun of intellectually handicapped people. So I am really sorry for all the negative and nasty things I have said about you, it's not your fault you're retarded.

Wow, that makes perfect sense now.

I want to know, why you think that even though the powers that be have decreed, no less than 18 months is enough before a full license can be obtained, that you and people who would have been eligible under the old system are exempt from that time frame?

Do you get it? Why are you safer to the general public based on when you booked your license, instead of how much experience you might have?

It's actually completely moot as far as I see it anyway, because there is still not enough emphasis on vehicle control for private users.

I assume a scholar such as yourself was trained quite rigorously in truck maneuvering, before you were let loose to show your intellect and driving godliness in a professional capacity, why should that not be mandatory for all road users?

[Drew]

What Drew said. Getting a nighttime exemption is well it's a pain in the ass as you have to get your boss to state you work these hours and the exemptionm only applies on the certain days/times you say youll need it. It's still stupidly anal.

Conversely, just don't get pulled over. Then you have an exemption without applying for one! Shit I've been riding a 400 on my L ever since I heard about LAMS and didn't feel like spending 4k for a beaten to death 250. Just don't ride like a prick and it shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah, I had a 250 for about 3 months I think, then moved on.

Used to be no fine though, just an extension of learner/restricted license time. Now it's a fine and demerits!

[ProTuned]

are you batman?

Yeah, keep it quiet. The Batmobile is out of service.

[Twitch]

Yeah, I had a 250 for about 3 months I think, then moved on.

Used to be no fine though, just an extension of learner/restricted license time. Now it's a fine and demerits!

Yeah this is exactly what I was expecting. Someone that broke the law when they were going through their licence (and no doubt still does) is now waving their big stick. See, some people actually abide by the law and take it seriously because although we don't agree with it always, we respect it. Generally it's there to keep people safe, and protect them from themselves... oh hang on, natural selection right? Well you must be doing something right I suppose!
Hey what's the difference between someone taking 12 months to get their full on a 250, then buying a big bike and killing themselves on it, and someone taking 2 years to get their licence on a slow ass bike on hte LAMS list then buying a big bike and still killing themselves? Nothing. If they don't have the skills and jump up the bike sizes too quick then the result will still be the same.

We all need education. Bring on the new skils courses I say, but make it snappy, I want to learn shit before I get too many bad habits!
I don't care that it's going to take longer to get that full licence. I was just asking the question!

I hate forums when they go feril.

[Drew]

Yeah this is exactly what I was expecting. Someone that broke the law when they were going through their licence (and no doubt still does) is now waving their big stick. See, some people actually abide by the law and take it seriously because although we don't agree with it always, we respect it. Generally it's there to keep people safe, and protect them from themselves... oh hang on, natural selection right? Well you must be doing something right I suppose!
Hey what's the difference between someone taking 12 months to get their full on a 250, then buying a big bike and killing themselves on it, and someone taking 2 years to get their licence on a slow ass bike on hte LAMS list then buying a big bike and still killing themselves? Nothing. If they don't have the skills and jump up the bike sizes too quick then the result will still be the same.

We all need education. Bring on the new skils courses I say, but make it snappy, I want to learn shit before I get too many bad habits!
I don't care that it's going to take longer to get that full licence. I was just asking the question!

I hate forums when they go feril.

I'm by no means Holier than anyone. I am not to be used as an example. But I did not jump off my 250 onto anything faster than half the 250s that were available at the time.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, re my attitude towards the law. I break them, and do so knowing full well that I will be done if I get caught. Natural selection avoidance? Prolly more luck to be honest, early on for sure.

Now toward the end, you and I are on the exact same page. Riders need to learn how to ride!

No system will be perfect, but ours is appaling. So is our attitude on the whole. Every cunt thinks he's Rossi, and flat out refuses to see their short comings.

[Surferdave]

Wow, that makes perfect sense now.

I want to know, why you think that even though the powers that be have decreed, no less than 18 months is enough before a full license can be obtained, that you and people who would have been eligible under the old system are exempt from that time frame?

Do you get it? Why are you safer to the general public based on when you booked your license, instead of how much experience you might have?

It's actually completely moot as far as I see it anyway, because there is still not enough emphasis on vehicle control for private users.

I assume a scholar such as yourself was trained quite rigorously in truck maneuvering, before you were let loose to show your intellect and driving godliness in a professional capacity, why should that not be mandatory for all road users?

Valid points and questions there. As for your last statement, you flatter me...no need for that.

1st point you kinda really answered...I'm still eligible under the old system, nothing to do with being exempt. In fact, had I chosen to do a DDC I would have my full now. Would've got it at the start of this month and gone from learner to full in 9 months as I'm well past 25 years old. Just to clear up any questions that may arise as to why I didn't do a DDC, it came down to a mixture of: 1. Time frame due to the fact I work evening, by the time I completed the course I would've only saved myself a couple of months so why spend the money? 2. The course components taught; Searching (eye scanning), Assessing (hazard identification) and Reducing Risk (risk management), I've already done two driving courses teaching that, one recently, and then all you do is drive around in a car to put it into practice. What a joke! Ultimately I was happy to wait 6 months to go for my full. But not 18 fucking months! (Would be 14 months on Oct 1st). Fuck that! Would you?

As to why you think that I think I'm safer? This brings me back to Road knowledge (experience) is the same no matter what you drive or ride. You need to know your rules and be able to put them to use in the correct manner and be able to read the constantly changing environment. These inexperienced plebs that you refer to and go on about are and will be like that on a bike or in a cage. They're dickheads and a menace on the road. I see it everyday. I see it from riders and cars alike and cringe. The only reason I don't see it from riders as often as other road users is there is less of us compared to cars n trucks.

Lets look at the flip side. Why do YOU think I or anyone else for that matter, am unsafe? Consider this: These unsafe and dangerous road users although we hear and read about it alot are actually a minority. You don't read in the paper how the considerate trucky let people into the traffic jam and he doesn't block up intersections like other road users at peak times and doesn't tail gate and pulls over to let traffic pass when it's safe. No. the only time you'll hear about him is when he crashes his truck or rolls it more likely due to fatigue, as opposed to him being a shit driver. Same with the lady in Honda Civic didn't see the MC due to lack of concentration more likely. I've lost count of the amount of times I've noticed a driver looking LEFT as they approach an intersection..HELLO! The flow of traffic is from your right first! Don't even get me started on fucking texting. I can always tell when I'm following someone whose doing that!

As to the whole thing being moot as you refer, this is where we are in absolute agreement. Time is not a factor, the ability to operate and control your vehicle in a safe and efficient manner is all too important. Consider average Joe: "Yay finally 18 months is up I can go sit my full..." hang on Mr. Joe how many times have you ridden your bike in the past 18 months? Joe: "Umm done about 6000k maybe coz I only go out on weekends when its dry..." and how often do you drive/ride in fog? Rain? At night? In peak traffic? Do you tail gate? Indercate? Time should not be a restrictive factor for any class of license, driver education should be compulsory for ALL road users. But when our supposed thoughtful and all knowing "powers that be" as you have stated were approached with this proposal around 8 years ago because some European countries have good driving statistics because they are all taught professionally (not by mum and dad), how to drive from a young age, our, at the time Transport Minister replied "Oh no we don't want them to do those courses and then think they're better drivers than they are..." Go figure dude.

As with truck driving training, there is a little bit when you go for each class but nothing really good but it is better than car or bike licensing and the reason is that trucks can do way more damage and cause more injuy if something goes wrong and it's all about the dollar value. Why are MC riders being taxed with ACC more yet probably majority of the accidents are not our fault...? Smidsy would be at fault a lot of the time, like the pigcop that did a you turn on the west coast and killed two MC riders, but we cost ACC more coz we got next to no protection. And we do have so many cowboy truckers out there that are not professional at all! However the ratio of good truck drivers would be far higher than those in cars or on bikes.

[Subike]

Im too fucking old and slow to be a rossi.
If I was 30 years younger then maybe, But old hands, old reflexes and old er bikes means going slower and enjoying it is worth the effort.
but heck, ridden big bike for years without a license, now that Im actually getting an R6 license, I have to be on a restricted for 18mths,
fuck, all Im doing is learning how to go slower.

[Surferdave]

Im too fucking old and slow to be a rossi.
If I was 30 years younger then maybe, But old hands, old reflexes and old er bikes means going slower and enjoying it is worth the effort.
but heck, ridden big bike for years without a license, now that Im actually getting an R6 license, I have to be on a restricted for 18mths,
fuck, all Im doing is learning how to go slower.

Thats funny and sad dude and I can totally relate, I rode my first bike when I was 14 and just got my 6L last year after a few years battle with my wife I'm mid 30's now haha. My last bike was a 400 sport and went like cut cat! She hated me going out thinking I'd be walking home after getting pinged by the coppers, costing us heaps of time and money so fair enough, I got my license and she happy now... needed to be done I was just being stubborn...don't need no stupid license tell me I can ride a bike...

[Drew]

Valid points and questions there. As for your last statement, you flatter me...no need for that.

1st point you kinda really answered...I'm still eligible under the old system, nothing to do with being exempt. In fact, had I chosen to do a DDC I would have my full now. Would've got it at the start of this month and gone from learner to full in 9 months as I'm well past 25 years old. Just to clear up any questions that may arise as to why I didn't do a DDC, it came down to a mixture of: 1. Time frame due to the fact I work evening, by the time I completed the course I would've only saved myself a couple of months so why spend the money? 2. The course components taught; Searching (eye scanning), Assessing (hazard identification) and Reducing Risk (risk management), I've already done two driving courses teaching that, one recently, and then all you do is drive around in a car to put it into practice. What a joke! Ultimately I was happy to wait 6 months to go for my full. But not 18 fucking months! (Would be 14 months on Oct 1st). Fuck that! Would you?

No I wouldn't do it. The reason I brought it up is I'd like as much chance of kiwi drivers knowing what they're doing as possible. I get why you haven't, but the system coming in, is coming in because all of the possible stuff you could have done to shorten your time, makes no difference at all. Not to single you out as a hazard.

As to why you think that I think I'm safer? This brings me back to Road knowledge (experience) is the same no matter what you drive or ride. You need to know your rules and be able to put them to use in the correct manner and be able to read the constantly changing environment. These inexperienced plebs that you refer to and go on about are and will be like that on a bike or in a cage. They're dickheads and a menace on the road. I see it everyday. I see it from riders and cars alike and cringe. The only reason I don't see it from riders as often as other road users is there is less of us compared to cars n trucks.

You're kinda saying the same thing I am, you know that right? But road knowledge is not vehicle control, and when the shit hits the fan, most people turn into squids.

Lets look at the flip side. Why do YOU think I or anyone else for that matter, am unsafe? Consider this: These unsafe and dangerous road users although we hear and read about it alot are actually a minority. You don't read in the paper how the considerate trucky let people into the traffic jam and he doesn't block up intersections like other road users at peak times and doesn't tail gate and pulls over to let traffic pass when it's safe. No. the only time you'll hear about him is when he crashes his truck or rolls it more likely due to fatigue, as opposed to him being a shit driver. Same with the lady in Honda Civic didn't see the MC due to lack of concentration more likely. I've lost count of the amount of times I've noticed a driver looking LEFT as they approach an intersection..HELLO! The flow of traffic is from your right first! Don't even get me started on fucking texting. I can always tell when I'm following someone whose doing that!

No there not a minority I reckon. Which is why I expect you to be no different. On a bike, most people are fucked when the it goes wrong.

I get what your saying, but I don't base my opinion on the media. I watch people not know how to ride properly, and form an opinion from that.

As to the whole thing being moot as you refer, this is where we are in absolute agreement. Time is not a factor, the ability to operate and control your vehicle in a safe and efficient manner is all too important. Consider average Joe: "Yay finally 18 months is up I can go sit my full..." hang on Mr. Joe how many times have you ridden your bike in the past 18 months? Joe: "Umm done about 6000k maybe coz I only go out on weekends when its dry..." and how often do you drive/ride in fog? Rain? At night? In peak traffic? Do you tail gate? Indercate? Time should not be a restrictive factor for any class of license, driver education should be compulsory for ALL road users. But when our supposed thoughtful and all knowing "powers that be" as you have stated were approached with this proposal around 8 years ago because some European countries have good driving statistics because they are all taught professionally (not by mum and dad), how to drive from a young age, our, at the time Transport Minister replied "Oh no we don't want them to do those courses and then think they're better drivers than they are..." Go figure dude.

As with truck driving training, there is a little bit when you go for each class but nothing really good but it is better than car or bike licensing and the reason is that trucks can do way more damage and cause more injuy if something goes wrong and it's all about the dollar value. Why are MC riders being taxed with ACC more yet probably majority of the accidents are not our fault...? Smidsy would be at fault a lot of the time, like the pigcop that did a you turn on the west coast and killed two MC riders, but we cost ACC more coz we got next to no protection. And we do have so many cowboy truckers out there that are not professional at all! However the ratio of good truck drivers would be far higher than those in cars or on bikes.

You suprise me. Without all the emotion and name calling I could believe the comment about trying to bring an intelligent argument to the thread.

I don't think for a second that the powers that be have a clue by the way, and if you look at what I originally said, the real direction my finger was pointed at them for letting the likes you (who might not be any good on the road), through a crack in a system.

Not encouraging to hear that even as a professional driver, your training was pretty lax.

I wont get into blaming everyone else. We seem to be getting along for the moment and I feel too warm and fuzzy to ruin it so soon.

[Drew]

Im too fucking old and slow to be a rossi.
If I was 30 years younger then maybe, But old hands, old reflexes and old er bikes means going slower and enjoying it is worth the effort.
but heck, ridden big bike for years without a license, now that Im actually getting an R6 license, I have to be on a restricted for 18mths,
fuck, all Im doing is learning how to go slower.

I was talking in general terms again, I should stop doing that.

I mean most riders think they know what they're doing. Then when it goes pair shaped, they cannot see where they went wrong in avoiding it.

[Glowerss]

I was talking in general terms again, I should stop doing that.

I mean most riders think they know what they're doing. Then when it goes pair shaped, they cannot see where they went wrong in avoiding it.

You keep this up, and people might mistake you for katman

[Surferdave]

No I wouldn't do it. The reason I brought it up is I'd like as much chance of kiwi drivers knowing what they're doing as possible. I get why you haven't, but the system coming in, is coming in because all of the possible stuff you could have done to shorten your time, makes no difference at all. Not to single you out as a hazard.

You're kinda saying the same thing I am, you know that right? But road knowledge is not vehicle control, and when the shit hits the fan, most people turn into squids.

No there not a minority I reckon. Which is why I expect you to be no different. On a bike, most people are fucked when the it goes wrong.

I get what your saying, but I don't base my opinion on the media. I watch people not know how to ride properly, and form an opinion from that.

You suprise me. Without all the emotion and name calling I could believe the comment about trying to bring an intelligent argument to the thread.

I don't think for a second that the powers that be have a clue by the way, and if you look at what I originally said, the real direction my finger was pointed at them for letting the likes you (who might not be any good on the road), through a crack in a system.

Not encouraging to hear that even as a professional driver, your training was pretty lax.

I wont get into blaming everyone else. We seem to be getting along for the moment and I feel too warm and fuzzy to ruin it so soon.

The reaction was merely a defensive mechanism, from being implied to as being an unsafe and or inexperienced rider/driver, by someone I've never met and don't know. I knew what you were getting at from the offset but resented the implication toward me as its completly untrue and could be viewed as defammation. Note the use of the word "could".

I get what your saying, but I don't base my opinion on the media. I watch people not know how to ride properly, and form an opinion from that.

So how exactly did you form your opinion of me then since we've never met and it was only my second post after joining this community? Perhaps jumping the gun based on the fact I happen to be on my restricted? You've certainly never observed me...My opinion is also based on what I do see everyday when I'm out on the road, not on the media.

Not encouraging to hear that even as a professional driver, your training was pretty lax.

You need to stop making all this personal its what gets peoples heckles up. MY training has been more than sufficient. The INDUSTRY training...what can I say? Your next battle to take up with the LTSA maybe? Like I said earlier there are heaps of shitarse cowboy truckers and that fucks me off.

On a bike, most people are fucked when the it goes wrong.

Good riders see potential situations and react accordingly for preventative measures. Any good DDC will teach that. Again it goes back to you and me agreeing that its not a time thing is driver training. The minority get it the majority don't, hence they not only find themself in a sticky situation but then turn to jelly coz they have no idea how to react or they react totally wrong. Game Over.


All in all dude so you can sleep easy and we can end on a happy good note please try to understand this. I don't think I'm the best driver/rider in the world. I am always open for more training etc as I have the philosophy I can always get better. I DO have over 20 years of driving/riding experience and 18 years heavy vehicle. I've driven in the worst conditions you can imagine and would consider myself a competant and safe driver. To sum up: you're preaching to the choir!

Peace

[Twitch]

I'm by no means Holier than anyone. I am not to be used as an example. But I did not jump off my 250 onto anything faster than half the 250s that were available at the time.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, re my attitude towards the law. I break them, and do so knowing full well that I will be done if I get caught. Natural selection avoidance? Prolly more luck to be honest, early on for sure.

Now toward the end, you and I are on the exact same page. Riders need to learn how to ride!

No system will be perfect, but ours is appaling. So is our attitude on the whole. Every cunt thinks he's Rossi, and flat out refuses to see their short comings.

I think we are all on the same page... you just have a really bad way of expressing it man!
Jeez, stop saying we all think we're Rossi, not all bikers are like that and it's no wonder you get into arguments! I think it'd almost be fair to say you thought you were Rossi (or whoever was top dog) when you were younger, just don't put all riders in that same box, some of us try to be a bit more sensible than that.
You are not to be used as an example huh? So stop using us as examples of little pricks that want a big bike as soon as they are allowed one!!?? You got the wrong end of the stick and off you went! lol I'm sure there are people like that on here but I am sure not one of them and I'd like to think they are the minority here too.

Not discussing this further as it's stupid.