MotoGP 2012

[DidJit]

It's the utter superiority of the very best riders on the very best machines.

Hence why Ezpeleta is so keen on closing the gap somewhat (for the spectacle element of “the show”).

“... All I want is an achievable championship with people who are close together on track. With the bikes we have today only three or four riders can use this bike properly. There are several others who are close, but they crash often. It is not necessary to make this so complicated. If we continue with the current championship and we end up with just six bikes that can disappear into the distance, it is completely nonsense. I can also increase the benefits available to the CRT, better tires, more fuel, or whatever.

“What has happened is that under the factories rules we ended up going from six factories to three; in the first year I made my rules we have 22 bikes, and next year 24. I am trying to understand why Formula One, which is theoretically the pinnacle of four-wheel motorsport, can have a rev limit and a common ECU, which is even made by one of the participants, and this is not a problem and they have better racing and increasing audiences. And yet we cannot do the same. This is my problem: I am saying give me a solution or I will bring my own. I have been saying this since Valencia last year. I have said ‘look at this, look at this.’ We have to be able to say to the other manufacturers that might come to this championship that costs are limited then they will come. Even if we say costs are limited they might not come, but if we don’t show to them some control of the costs they definitely will not come. ...”

Edit: By the way, I'm not advocating one way or the other — just trying to make sense of the whole scenario for my own understanding. Riders will always want to go as fast as they possibly can on the best equipment possible, and engineers will always want to push the technological boundaries as far as they can as well. I guess it's about finding a balance where there's a healthy grid of relatively closely matched teams that have the ability to tune and develop a reasonably wide set of parameters.
If that's possible.

[Cleve]

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012...vive_the_.html

David Emmett's latest brilliant analysis of the current and future crises for MotoGP. Who will win? Ezpeleta or Nakamoto?

[James Deuce]

Just ditch MotoGP and go with Superbike. SBK connects the fans to the sport in a way that MotoGP doesn't and the purity and tradition of MotoGP was destroyed in 2003 with the name change and the diesels. Unlike NASCAR, Superbike still attracts technically savvy fans and has the potential to sell actual motorcycles.

All this hand ringing over the supposed pinnacle of the sport is ridiculous, especially when the fat, slow, wallowing, pigs of SBK are running at CRT bike pace anyway. MotoGP and SBK are owned by the same business ultimately, and if they want to make things cheaper, have full grids that riders compete to be on, right down to the slowest team, and have big crowds at the races, SBK is the obvious way to go.

Stick a fork in it, MotoGP is done.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stick a fork in it, MotoGP is done.

Says that man that's more than likely never been to a Moto GP round in his life.

[Oscar]

Step away from the bong...
MotoGP is always going to be the pinnacle (CRT's are a passing phase). When a Superbike gets near the laptimes of the prototypes, we'll talk.

Just ditch MotoGP and go with Superbike. SBK connects the fans to the sport in a way that MotoGP doesn't and the purity and tradition of MotoGP was destroyed in 2003 with the name change and the diesels. Unlike NASCAR, Superbike still attracts technically savvy fans and has the potential to sell actual motorcycles.

All this hand ringing over the supposed pinnacle of the sport is ridiculous, especially when the fat, slow, wallowing, pigs of SBK are running at CRT bike pace anyway. MotoGP and SBK are owned by the same business ultimately, and if they want to make things cheaper, have full grids that riders compete to be on, right down to the slowest team, and have big crowds at the races, SBK is the obvious way to go.

Stick a fork in it, MotoGP is done.

[tail_end_charlie]

Step away from the bong...
MotoGP is always going to be the pinnacle (CRT's are a passing phase). When a Superbike gets near the laptimes of the prototypes, we'll talk.

"MotoGP is always going to be the pinnacle....." ==> Agree, I would love to see MotoGP kept as the wildest, fastest, most out of this world PROTOTYPE bikes.

"....CRT's are a passing phase." ==> CRT's might just end up being the only way to keep MotoGP alive in the short term. So not totally disagreeing with your statement.

http://www.visordown.com/interviews/...ing/20023.html ==> I like what Simon Crafer has to say about the MotoGP to WSBK relationship. And I also agree with his view on the CRTs. But right now I feel that there is too much prototype in the WSBK field. These should be bikes that you can go out and buy of the show room floor, bolt on aftermarket parts, tweek, tune, and race. Fabricating new swingarms, relocating fuel tanks, significant design changes to the engine, and highly sophisticated electronics are just going too far.

If push comes to shove over the rules changes for 2013/14, there is a distinct possibility that Honda will leave. If Honda leaves, Yamaha might just leave as well. If they are both gone, and no other factory steps up, it would be quite embarrasing/useless for Ducati to stay in. Bammm, all the factories gone, who do you have left? CRTs. Now I know some of you more distinguished gentlemen (read old farts) think that they are a f&#$in' embarrassment to MotoGP, but they sure as shit are better than nothing at all.

[tail_end_charlie]

Just ditch MotoGP and go with Superbike. SBK connects the fans to the sport in a way that MotoGP doesn't and the purity and tradition of MotoGP was destroyed in 2003 with the name change and the diesels. Unlike NASCAR, Superbike still attracts technically savvy fans and has the potential to sell actual motorcycles.

All this hand ringing over the supposed pinnacle of the sport is ridiculous, especially when the fat, slow, wallowing, pigs of SBK are running at CRT bike pace anyway. MotoGP and SBK are owned by the same business ultimately, and if they want to make things cheaper, have full grids that riders compete to be on, right down to the slowest team, and have big crowds at the races, SBK is the obvious way to go.

Stick a fork in it, MotoGP is done.

Yeah nah bro.

Oh yeah, and please get over the fact that two strokes are gone. Bet you pitched a fit when the automobile took over from horses too?

[James Deuce]

Doesn't make any sense for Dorna to retain MotoGP, purely from a business perspective. If Honda continue to play hard ball they will kill it. I don't care that the two strokes went btw, what went was the obvious differences between the prototypes and the Superbikes for the casual fan. I know enough to know that a Superbike is NEVER going to match a prototype however that makes no difference to someone who likes to watch a little bit of bike racing now and then. MotoGP = boring, Superbikes = wild fun with close racing. If I owned both and the manufacturers were dropping out of my premier class and refusing to control costs, I'd sell it before the MotoGP brand devalues, or ditch it altogether.

Top Level Racing isn't about improving the breed any more. It's about making money for Dorna. MotoGP has declining viewership and no spectacle (for the casual viewer - knowledgeable motorcyclists can see what is going on and read about the challenges that MotoGP teams face - there's more drama in who had more chatter than who, rather than the racing) and a bunch of rent-a-racers on slightly stiffer Superbikes racing around for the minor points, and no one with a personality at the pointy end of the field and only two manufacturers with any money.

[Mental Trousers]

Doesn't make any sense for Dorna to retain MotoGP, purely from a business perspective.

So totally wrong mate. Having both series under the same management is the best move. It won't hurt WSBK but it will help MotoGP as now the separation between the two will be clear.

Now they have to sort out the actual rules so that the racing in both is close while still keeping the factories.

[eelracing]

Yeah nah bro.

Oh yeah, and please get over the fact that two strokes are gone. Bet you pitched a fit when the automobile took over from horses too?

Is that you Slowpoke???

If at any time during this millenium you could make up your mind then please give Dorna some fucken clues.

Here's some.It used to be about prototype racebikes and the mad bastards who race them...you know,the riders.
Not one tyre rules,not fuel limits,not GPS settings,not limpwristed TC,not even goddamn fuckwits in suits making a mockerey of what was once pure and downright nasty fucking war on evil sonsofbitch bikes that did'nt accept posuers and european playboys taking liberties with out consequences.

Now it's all F1 like corporate bullshit and Lorenzo and Pedrosa it's current cardboard cutouts.Both seem as excited about racing GP's as John Key would be in seeing Kim.com slipping Mrs Key a megaupload.

Shit,don't be surprised if Dorna start proceedings to hold a race around Monaco in the not to distant future just to liven up the show.

Simplify the rules Dorna,open up the competition to all and kick Honda the fuck outta there if they don't play ball.

[roogazza]

Remember these little works of Art ??

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fe...x/viewall.html

[Drew]

Now they have to sort out the actual rules so that the racing in both is close while still keeping the factories.

Soooo, they need to leave SBK the fuck alone?

Only Yamaha are not running sbk right now, and no one misses them much. Spies was the only rooster who could ride it. Malandri limped away from his ride shacking his head I'll bet.

[Oscar]

I'm interested in some of the comments about prototypes - as if they are the be all of racing past and future.
We seem to forget that some of the golden ages in Grand Prix racing were on the back of production racers like RGB Suzuki's and Yamaha TZ's (and even things like Newcombes Konieg). Sure, some of the great days were when rip snorting two stroke factory missiles ruled the roost, but these things were waaay cheaper than the factory bikes of today.

It would appear that the future of MotoGP may again be production racers (which Honda, Suzuki and BMW are rumoured to be developing). CRT's may be the first (and not so successful) iteration of this.

[roogazza]

I'm interested in some of the comments about prototypes - as if they are the be all of racing past and future.
We seem to forget that some of the golden ages in Grand Prix racing were on the back of production racers like RGB Suzuki's and Yamaha TZ's (and even things like Newcombes Konieg). Sure, some of the great days were when rip snorting two stroke factory missiles ruled the roost, but these things were waaay cheaper than the factory bikes of today.

It would appear that the future of MotoGP may again be production racers (which Honda, Suzuki and BMW are rumoured to be developing). CRT's may be the first (and not so successful) iteration of this.

Back to the future Oscar. I was a young fella reading the pommy mags and trying to follow the GPs when Honda withdrew in 67 and Yamaha in (I think) 68.
Maybe it's like fashion and we go in circles ?

[Mental Trousers]

Soooo, they need to leave SBK the fuck alone?

Nah I don't think so bro. They allow too much modification. You can put a custom swingarm that's basically a tweaked MotoGP one into a bike, or move the location of the petrol tank to change the CoG. That's not right.

Limiting the amount of modification possible should see more close racing.