Could you have avoided this?

[R-Soul]

Ah, I see what you mean. In that case I totally agree with you and this is where the teminology can get us in to trouble. Counter-steering, as I was interpreting the term, is to do with what the front wheel is doing. There is another possible interpretation of the term, equally as valid, that refers to the action of the rider. It would be quite correct to say that the rider can "steer" the bike in two ways - by applying pressure to the bars or by shifting their body weight.

To put it another way. While it is true to say that a bike cannot turn without entering into a countersteer, it is also true to say that the rider doesn't have to countersteer (i.e. apply pressure to the bars) in order to turn because the bike will do this automatically as a result of rider weight shift.

A rider applying weight to one side (with hands off bars)suddenly causes the head to jerk, friction prevents it coming back entirely, causing a small degree of counter steering. Do you really want to leave your steering effectiveness to the viscosity of the grease in teh head bearing?

A rider leaning slowly to one side with hands off bars will not get effective steering at speed. If you claim you steer effectively by body weight with hands on bars, then I am saying that you are actually applying countersteering forces to the bars with your hands when you make the movements required to move your body weight, and its actually counter steering that is causing your steering to be effective.

This is what happens when kids get an opportunity to stuff around on motorbikes for a while. They find that by moving body positions in a certain way, they get better steering. They think its because of the weight shift, but its actually because they are pushing/pulling on the BARS to get their body into position.

[R-Soul]

Nek minnit...



This, ladies and gentlemen, is how you lose at the internet.

Thwe words EFFECTIVELY in my first quote should be understood to mean "at any kind of realistic road going speeds useful to anybody else besides jrandom, around any kind of corner that you could not steer a super tanker around"

Going slowly around big corners is not effective steering (not fo me anyway).

[bogan]

A rider applying weight to one side (with hands off bars)suddenly causes the head to jerk, friction prevents it coming back entirely, causing a small degree of counter steering. Do you really want to leave your steering effectiveness to the viscosity of the grease in teh head bearing?

Actually it is far more to do with the trail, try leaning you bike over while holding only the seat, the bars will turn in towards the lean no matter how slowly you lean it over.

[swbarnett]

A rider applying weight to one side (with hands off bars)suddenly causes the head to jerk, friction prevents it coming back entirely, causing a small degree of counter steering. Do you really want to leave your steering effectiveness to the viscosity of the grease in teh head bearing?

A rider leaning slowly to one side with hands off bars will not get effective steering at speed. If you claim you steer effectively by body weight with hands on bars, then I am saying that you are actually applying countersteering forces to the bars with your hands when you make the movements required to move your body weight, and its actually counter steering that is causing your steering to be effective.

This is what happens when kids get an opportunity to stuff around on motorbikes for a while. They find that by moving body positions in a certain way, they get better steering. They think its because of the weight shift, but its actually because they are pushing/pulling on the BARS to get their body into position.

Totally agree.

[jrandom]

*backpedalling* *restating*

The trick, dude, is to not write things that are wrong and post them on the internet in the first place.

[bogan]

The trick, dude, is to not write things that are wrong and post them on the internet in the first place.

And a tip for that, is step outside the physics 101 class into the real world. Next thing you know he'll be telling us the only effective way to create wing lift is to have a longer path over the top side

Anyway, I think I can hear Drew loading mags, so

[Drew]

Technically, what would power-sliding be, then?

Serious Q: does a rider use c-s to get the bike leant over, then power to drift the rear, and when drifting the rear is further c-s used - or replaced by adjusting the power?

Backing it in to a turn, yes, you still counter steer. Load up the front with the brake, counter steer like normal to lean it over, and let the back drift to the outside. Moderate the slide with the BRAKE, not the bars.

Power sliding, you have no choice but to steer out of the turn. Unless your aim is to drop it on the low side.

[Ocean1]

Backing it in to a turn, yes, you still counter steer. Load up the front with the brake, counter steer like normal to lean it over, and let the back drift to the outside. Moderate the slide with the BRAKE, not the bars.

Power sliding, you have no choice but to steer out of the turn. Unless your aim is to drop it on the low side.

It's the transition between these two where I like to fling myself over the bars and far, far away...

[Drew]

It's the transition between these two where I like to fling myself over the bars and far, far away...

I don't even try to tie them together. I back it in on pit bikes, (and a short session learning to do it on the RF), and the only time I have ever played around with real power sliding I destroyed a rear hoop on my K2 thou in a week.

[Ocean1]

I don't even try to tie them together. I back it in on pit bikes, (and a short session learning to do it on the RF), and the only time I have ever played around with real power sliding I destroyed a rear hoop on my K2 thou in a week.

I sometimes manage it in the dirt. More often end up on me arse. Most excellent memory from a couple of years ago of passing the boy around the outside with the back well out and the front wheel a foot off the ground. Perfect. He'll never know how much pure luck was involved.

Never tried power sliding anything roadworthy, never had the practice earlier in life to make it anywhere near safe. The XB12R, though backed in exactly like the 525 does in the dirt, just chop the throttle and tip it in. Very repeatable and quite safe. 1125 won't do it without some brake, a lot less safe.

[Metal Doctor]

this may be a factor it may not, in the uk people flash there lights to let other drivers turn. we ride with our lights on and if there is a bump in the road it may appear that the biker could of flashed his lights telling the truck driver he could turn. i doubt it though.

in most of these cenarios you offten here the words "i didnt see him" this is because you train your eyes to see large car shaped objects.

whatever happened was one of those things that happens evey day. he was on of the lucky ones and lived, some die from the same incident.

wheather or not you think you would of been riding differently or slower or avoided it somehow, the fact remains that the truck pulled accross on coming traffic.

thought it was interesting to look at the poll results and reading the comments. personally if i was riding down that road and a truck pulled out that close to me giving me no time to react i would of slammed into the truck too. but im fat and would of bounced further.

[SuperMac]

this may be a factor it may not, in the uk people flash there lights to let other drivers turn. we ride with our lights on and if there is a bump in the road it may appear that the biker could of flashed his lights telling the truck driver he could turn. i doubt it though.

UK's had 'AHO' on almost all new bikes for about a decade, and most riders voluntarily used dipped beam prior to it becoming standard (not a legal requirement, ACEM [the manufacturer's association] brought it in).

i would of slammed into the truck too. but im fat and would of bounced further.

There's a UK 'fly on the wall' TV docu series 'helicopter heroes' following the UK air ambulance helicopters. Recently, one of the Drs commentated that well-muscled motorcyclists are [slightly] protected from injury - at least, more than skinny people!

[actungbaby]

I bet you also think that shaft drives can wheelie.

One mr gardner did some awsome burnouts on 6 cylinder goldwinged engined bike in wellington

[Drew]

One mr gardner did some awsome burnouts on 6 cylinder goldwinged engined bike in wellington

They're not wheelies though are they.

Him and Slighty weren't flavour of the month with Honda NZ after that show. Slight fucken rooted the valkyrie's linked abs brakes doing rolling burnouts I heard. Not to mention the brand new tyres.

[Banditbandit]

Try these - all shaft drives