Pro Rider training

[Kev The Rev]

Hi Andy, thanks and yep, love wettabix, actually eat 6 a day. Shit hot rider, no sorry M8 but most L riders ride better than me. As you state I was not that instructor on his group, but I was tarred by his one sided brush and gave my version. I take punches when I am wrong but I did not make the comment (Can't wait for the instructor in question to comment like you promised) I wrote (I am personally going to contact the 5 students I never met them before, nor do I know them now and with Pro riders permission ask them to write a short letter on how they felt the training day went (positive or negative) with the permission of the students post the letters here on this web site so that you readers and fellow bikers can be the judges. I do not know what Prorider or the other instructors course of action will be, that’s there prerogative. I am in the process of instigating what I wrote and hope that these students will write. I am at a loss at your comment, He has no agenda other than he writes about his motorcycle experiences both good and bad and has done so for years , surely, it is inconceivable that in the course of a whole days riding, he can not say one, just one thing positive ? He must be as you say, shit hot eh? Ride safe

[Andy67]

Hi Andy, thanks and yep, love wettabix, actually eat 6 a day. Shit hot rider, no sorry M8 but most L riders ride better than me. As you state I was not that instructor on his group, but I was tarred by his one sided brush and gave my version. I take punches when I am wrong but I did not make the comment (Can't wait for the instructor in question to comment like you promised) I wrote (I am personally going to contact the 5 students I never met them before, nor do I know them now and with Pro riders permission ask them to write a short letter on how they felt the training day went (positive or negative) with the permission of the students post the letters here on this web site so that you readers and fellow bikers can be the judges. I do not know what Prorider or the other instructors course of action will be, that’s there prerogative. I am in the process of instigating what I wrote and hope that these students will write. I am at a loss at your comment, He has no agenda other than he writes about his motorcycle experiences both good and bad and has done so for years , surely, it is inconceivable that in the course of a whole days riding, he can not say one, just one thing positive ? He must be as you say, shit hot eh? Ride safe

Hey Kev, that's a lot of weetbix, have you considered pies ?

Look I understand where you are at with respect to your personal pride and standards, great traits. I also think your modestly around riding skill is cool, 55 years and still around says it all for me. Irrespective of he said she said I think their maybe some systemic issues common to any organisation and as you say if that is a development opportunity for the better, then all good.

Peace bro

[Mom]

Interesting thread. I am surprised that the instructor that was conducting raftn's lesson has not responded to his copied blog. I am sure that the contents of it have been brought to his/her attention. Perhaps they think responding on a forum such as this is not appropriate?

However, I would have thought it very appropriate to respond, at least to thank raftn for his feedback and suggesting a better place to have the discussion.

As it stands I have read an opinion piece from someone I know to be qualified to comment, being responded to by someone that, was not on that ride and really cant comment on it, but who is offended that someone has had the audacity to have done so.

So, I am going to join in the discussion and ask why? I am indirectly paying for this course, as are all owners of registered motorcycles (or motorcycles that are registered), and, I want to know that it is delivering value. A non road legal bike on an ACC funded training lesson? That is my first question.

Looking forward to a meaningful response.

It's been ages...

[Blackbird]

I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. I know some of the people who were involved (on both sides of the fence to speak) and they're good people and accomplished riders. I'd bet the atmosphere would be a whole lot more productive over a coffee. The people involved can only ever be as good as the systems, procedures and standards let them be.

[Mom]

I'd bet the atmosphere would be a whole lot more productive over a coffee.

Nice sentiments, and I agree for the most part. However, there appears to be no offer of a caffiene fuelled talk. From either side.

However, I would have thought it very appropriate to respond, at least to thank raftn for his feedback and suggesting a better place to have the discussion.

I stand by this statement!

[Kev The Rev]

Many thanks Andy, and appreciate your kind comments and yes I fully understand it is frustrating for readers and I can honestly say I do not know the official stance from the organization but I will be meeting shortly with them and the other instructors who participated in Rogers course and I also personally need to verify certain aspects of what transpired. Perhaps they are formulating a response and gathering facts? Lets wait and see and cheers for now, ride safe. Ps, I have a problem with pies as well! Shit they are sooo good.

[James Deuce]

Asking students to respond in regard to the quality of the training is akin to shooting fish in a barrel. For many of them, I'm sure this was their first experience of rider training outside of the BHS scenario, so they are unlikely to be able to provide credible, objective commentary.

Someone feeling they received quality training and someone knowing that they didn't are diametrically opposite poles in the world of rider training.

[Tricia1000]

IAM are not now, and have never been, a training body, they are an examining body. They do not have any "I" endorsed instructors, carrying out any training.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Do you not think that when you ride your bike you make YOUR OWN decisions? i do! if my mate doesn't stop at a stop line i will not just follow him through, I make MY OWN decision.

A motorcycle instructor does not have the power to control your bike.

And if a student was to be stopped by the fuzz then he/she would be the only one in trouble.
So i believe your comments to be inaccurate Viking01. sorry.

i have done some digging through some mates in high places and it seems that Roger is connected with the IAM who were not successful in the tender for the ACC program.
Profesional jealousy?? I think that he has done some harm to their reputation.

[nzspokes]

IAM are not now, and have never been, a training body, they are an examining body. They do not have any "I" endorsed instructors, carrying out any training.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Looks like his mates in high places are not as high as he thought.

[Glowerss]

Looks like his mates in high places are not as high as he thought.

Maybe he meant his mate was just plain high? Really, really high

[ChiefEX]

IAM are not now, and have never been, a training body, they are an examining body. They do not have any "I" endorsed instructors, carrying out any training.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

For clarification, IAM did not participate in any tender with ACC or Auckland transport. There is no commercial interest, hence we are a registered charity. We do not train, we assess over a period of time and offer feedback against the advanced motorcycle test standard. We are a voluntary organisation dedicated to the promotion and administration of the advanced roadcraft test. We do not get paid for our efforts in verifying riders ability to ride to the advanced standard beyond covering examiners expenses. Our membership is made up of riders who have had their skills assessed against very stringent criteria. Those who carry on to become observers within the organisation do so without financial gain. The institute of advanced motorists is a completely independent body which encompasses riders from many different backgrounds. This includes a wide range of motorcyclists, some of which are NZTA qualified instructors with an 'I' endorsement, from a nationwide list of companies (including one instructor on the pro-rider team). Some of these were successful with tenders, some werent. The constitution of the institute requires us to be ethical and professional in all aspects of dealings with the public. Promoting road safety is what we are all about. From what I understand the issues highlighted in the OP concerned breaches in current NZ road legislation, from people placed in a position of responsibility to guide their students. These instructors are not current NZ-IAM members.

If you have any concerns about bias in the nature of our operations, please address them to me.

Chief Examiner
Institute of advanced motorists (NZ)

enquiries@nz-iam.org.nz

[MadDuck]

I am indirectly paying for this course, as are all owners of registered motorcycles (or motorcycles that are registered), and, I want to know that it is delivering value. A non road legal bike on an ACC funded training lesson?

Had a chat with someone today who was on a course the same weekend but not the same one if that makes sense...lol. The story is so similar to Rogers it is scary.

Someone feeling they received quality training and someone knowing that they didn't are diametrically opposite poles in the world of rider training.

BINGO! You dont know what you dont know. To receive this training first up you would be none the wiser.

[Ender EnZed]

BINGO! You dont know what you dont know. To receive this training first up you would be none the wiser.

So, is there any commercially run advanced rider training that's actually any good?

[nzspokes]

So, is there any commercially run advanced rider training that's actually any good?

Yes.

[Tricia1000]

Yes. In the Auckland area, I provide Advanced Rider Training, Roadcraft School of Motorcycling Ltd., and Phil at Riderskills also provides Advanced Rider training. Both of us train, students to whatever level they wish to reach. We can also train them to the standard required for an IAM test, if they wish.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

So, is there any commercially run advanced rider training that's actually any good?