ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

How about we take this over here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130551111

I am off to vote on Kels poll.

[RomeuPT]

The belly length number is completely irrelevant, getting the correct diffuser end point is critical - no matter what the desired angles or their configuration - as is the rear cone angle.
What connects these two elements is simply there to get the correct phasing of the leftward/rightward travelling wave fronts.

The same logic applies for example to the cylinder duct and header end %.
If there is a long duct, the header then becomes shorter, as long as it ends at the same % of tuned length to get your desired effect, the number matters Jack Shit.

Thanks again.

I am finnaly puting this concepts into three real pipes that will be tested within the next week.

They mostly have dual stage header, three stage diffusor, single stage baffles. With the middle diffusor the steppest one. The percentages are within 32/66

Hope it will work great

Regards

[husaberg]

Technical question For Frits.

Here in NZ we have the F4 class
125 Air cooled 2 strokes (24 mm carb max)
100cc Liquid cooled 2 stokes (open carb)
150cc four strokes (open carb)


Which subgroup would benefit the most from a move to change the fuel rules to allow a fuel.
E85 that was 85% ethanol 15% petrol 110+ RON octane.
The current legal fuels are
Avgas (RON is 103-112)
FIM unleaded (RON of 95-102)
Pump fuel (God knows about 98?)

Apologies for the RON numbers only but it was for consistency

As it stands currently the 3 class are pretty much evenly matched, on Avgas or on Pump unleaded.(Don't know who or if anyone runs the FIM unleaded)

Would it be fair to say the potential performance and reliability gained would be equal across the board. For all three Subgroups

[richban]

Technical question For Frits.

Here in NZ we have the F4 class
125 Air cooled 2 strokes (24 mm carb max)
100cc Liquid cooled 2 stokes (open carb)
150cc four strokes (open carb)


Which subgroup would benefit the most from a move to change the fuel rules to allow a fuel.
E85 that was 85% ethanol 15% petrol 110+ RON octane.
The current legal fuels are
Avgas RON is 103-112
FIM unleaded is a RON of 95-102
pump fuel Good know about 98?

As it stands currently the 3 class are pretty much evenly matched on Avgas or on Pump unleaded.(Don't know who or if anyone runs the FIM unleaded)

Even better question.

Which out off these engine types has the biggest hp advantage in a tuned form for road racing.

125 Air cooled 2 strokes (24 mm carb max)
100cc Liquid cooled 2 stokes (open carb)
158cc Air and Liquid Cooled four strokes (open carb)

[goose8]

Fuel isn't really gonna change much
Well at the gp the bike with the least amount of power out of the top 7 bikes won so I think we other things to worry about than fuel I think nathaniel has 20hp maybe 21hp
Which out off these engine types has the biggest hp advantage in a tuned form for road racing.

125 Air cooled 2 strokes (24 mm carb max)
100cc Liquid cooled 2 stokes (open carb)
158cc Air and Liquid Cooled four strokes (open carb)[/QUOTE]

[Frits Overmars]

125 Air cooled 2 strokes (24 mm carb max)
100cc Liquid cooled 2 stokes (open carb)
150cc four strokes (open carb)
Which subgroup would benefit the most from a move to change the fuel rules to allow a fuel. E85 that was 85% ethanol 15% petrol 110+ RON octane.The current legal fuels are
Avgas (RON is 103-112)
FIM unleaded (RON of 95-102)
Pump fuel (God know about 98?)
As it stands currently the 3 class are pretty much evenly matched,
Would it be fair to say the potential performance and reliability gained would be equal across the board. For all three Subgroups

I only have experience with FIM-allowed fuels (and pump fuel should qualify) so I can't really say. But 125 cc two-stroke GP-bikes could wipe the floor with 250 cc four-strokes, so if your 150 cc four-strokes are evenly matched, it is about time someone wakes up your two-strokes.
OK, your 125 cc smokers are handicapped, but even so a 150 cc four-stroke should not stand a chance.

[richban]

OK, your 125 cc smokers are handicapped, but even so a 150 cc four-stroke should not stand a chance.

Love your work Mr Frits. But like the snails and the tortoise we keep on trudging on. Coz engine's blow and people make mistakes and racing is racing. And we love it.

[husaberg]

I only have experience with FIM-allowed fuels (and pump fuel should qualify) so I can't really say. But 125 cc two-stroke GP-bikes could wipe the floor with 250 cc four-strokes, so if your 150 cc four-strokes are evenly matched, it is about time someone wakes up your two-strokes.
OK, your 125 cc smokers are handicapped, but even so a 150 cc four-stroke should not stand a chance.

Well Maybe then i will owe someone an apology......
As i see the cooler running 85% ethanol to be a huge advantage on the thermally inefficient air cooled 125cc 2 stroke vs the liquid cooled open carbed 100cc 2 stroke.
In fact i see it as a major thermal restriction exploiter.
The air cooled being given a 25cc leg up (but only allowed air cooling and a 24mm carb)
I base this on the 85% ethanol mix (using my maths) to have a assumed latent heat of evaporation of around 368 BTU/pound (ethanol is assumed to be 410 BTU/Pound.
with petrol being around 135 BTU/pound.
The may not seem significant, but the correct E85 mixture will end up burning 1.53 times as much fuel.
So it will be removing the EQ of 4.17 times as much heat as petrol
Yet only adding from its burning 8.5% more heat than petrol.
This same thermal advantage would also be exploitable by a forced induction engine.

[Frits Overmars]

like the snails and the tortoise we keep on trudging on. Coz engine's blow and people make mistakes and racing is racing. And we love it.

Engines do blow, it's true. The other day I had a conversation with an acquaintance who used to build his own successful 125 cc two-stroke machines. His son now races a 250 cc Moto3 Honda. "It is not true that Moto3 is three times as expensive as GP125. That should be five times. Our first Moto3 engine blew after 40 km while running in. In the second one the piston split vertically after 470 km. A bare piston (no rings, no pin, no clips) costs over 800 euros and I am not even allowed to fit it myself. Great class, Moto3". As far as he is concerned, the people making the mistakes are called Dorna and he doesn't love it.

PS: the Honda piston pin costs 340 euros. "Let's make racing more affordable and ban those two-strokes".

[RomeuPT]

Engines do blow, it's true. The other day I had a conversation with an acquaintance who used to build his own successful 125 cc two-stroke machines. His son now races a 250 cc Moto3 Honda. "It is not true that Moto3 is three times as expensive as GP125. That should be five times. Our first Moto3 engine blew after 40 km while running in. In the second one the piston split vertically after 470 km. A bare piston (no rings, no pin, no clips) costs over 800 euros and I am not even allowed to fit it myself. Great class, Moto3". As far as he is concerned, the people making the mistakes are called Dorna and he doesn't love it.

PS: the Honda piston pin costs 340 euros. "Let's make racing more affordable and ban those two-strokes".

We need to be rich to barely run a high end 250 4t

The Honda piston cost more money than the average, and I really mean the average Portuguese montly income.

For long fast tracks wouldn't a revving 100cc liquid cooled be the best? And the 125 air cooled for slower tracks?

Regards

[kel]

For long fast tracks wouldn't a revving 100cc liquid cooled be the best? And the 125 air cooled for slower tracks?Regards

Yes I believe you are correct but - our slow tracks (kart tracks) have some very tight corners, the four strokes drive out of these corners much better making them very hard to beat. We have only one 2 stroke rider that can reguarly beat the four strokes

[richban]

Engines do blow, it's true. The other day I had a conversation with an acquaintance who used to build his own successful 125 cc two-stroke machines. His son now races a 250 cc Moto3 Honda. "It is not true that Moto3 is three times as expensive as GP125. That should be five times. Our first Moto3 engine blew after 40 km while running in. In the second one the piston split vertically after 470 km. A bare piston (no rings, no pin, no clips) costs over 800 euros and I am not even allowed to fit it myself. Great class, Moto3". As far as he is concerned, the people making the mistakes are called Dorna and he doesn't love it.

PS: the Honda piston pin costs 340 euros. "Let's make racing more affordable and ban those two-strokes".

Yes that sux for sure. And 2 seasons in they just sound wrong. Crazy money being spent I am sure. I am sure they don't smell as nice ether.

Even though I race a 4 stroke I grew up on 2 strokes. They are great.

[richban]

Yes I believe you are correct but - our slow tracks (kart tracks) have some very tight corners, the four strokes drive out of these corners much better making them very hard to beat. We have only one 2 stroke rider that can reguarly beat the four strokes

Now that my friend, sounds like an excuse of some sort. The problem is not the engine. If its running good and making the power they are in your end of the country. It's the rider and the handling package that Needs work.

[kel]

It's the rider and the handling package that Needs work.

Ouch

[speedpro]

I've come to the same conclusion about the package required. So far the solution seems good. My motor, Dave's bike, and currently Gary riding it. Despite the power it makes, currently less than 30hp, it seems to not have any real advantage over a lesser 4 stroke. It takes a moment to get up and boogy even when well into the powerband revs if the throttle has been closed. In a similar situation the 150 4 stroke has a more immediate transition to power. The result is that in between corners where you could give it a little squirt the 4 stroke pulls away a bit. Gary and Dave ride pretty good and Gary is sorting the handling nicely so they manage to keep up. Now that Gary has sorted out how to start races with the bike he is in a lot better position on the first lap. Last meeting he was noticeably quicker than pretty well everybody but just needed to ramp it up a bit for getting past people. Dave has less problems sneaking past other riders so I'm looking forward to him getting fit again. I think there's a reasonable possibility of Gary resetting the lap record again next meeting and Dave should be a bit faster again.
Just gotta keep it together for an important race, like a GP.