ESE's works engine tuner

[Yow Ling]

To have a sleeve made locally, not ported about 120 to 150
These imported sleeves 100 for 3, even have top lip

57 od 49 id 120 long

[mr bucketracer]

From memory the modern Foul strokes don't even need the plating now. Chevy (i think vega) in the 70's started the cast with lots of Silicone or something then etch out the Aluminum later, i think Honda and Yamaha are doing the same now on the R1 and the CBR250 although they might be using MMC or some other ceramic......

the honda sp1 - 2 and so on run on the aluminum barrel , but thats a four stroke for ya (-:

[Bert]

Yeah that just seems lazy way to do it. Perhaps reseat the sleeve & run a countersunk bolt into the front skirt at the bottom. Once in the cases it can't back out & CS stops it winding forward & dropping out. That there's now a small hole in the bore at the bottom of the stroke is no biggie.

That was about the same idea/plan we settled on. But no rush now as the foul stroke will get some use and we have had a lot of success getting ponies to have fun with. But I won't be leaving it for too long....

The other issue for a sleeve without a method to locate it vertically is what does the head gasket seal on? With my turbo even with a lip to stop the sleeves dropping I still had problems with the thin sleeves cracking the lip off and then the bottom part of the sleeve dropping down a mm or so........

Don't forget we have a replaceable head insert and orings everywhere. Need to take some more photos.

To have a sleeve made locally, not ported about 120 to 150
These imported sleeves 100 for 3, even have top lip
57 od 49 id 120 long

yea got a few sitting on the shelf, purchased after the first one was done. Still in the back of my mind is what Wobbly & rob discussed about 400 pages ago re alloy sleeve and coating. Would work out about the same. Also wandered if a conversion to a 125 air cooled option....

[Kickaha]

Still in the back of my mind is what Wobbly & rob discussed about 400 pages ago re alloy sleeve and coating. Would work out about the same. .

I costed that at about $800-900 a few years ago for a four stroke

[husaberg]

yea got a few sitting on the shelf, purchased after the first one was done. Still in the back of my mind is what Wobbly & rob discussed about 400 pages ago re alloy sleeve and coating. Would work out about the same. Also wandered if a conversion to a 125 air cooled option....

Around here i guess it was on one of my log in pages......if you click the arrow it should take you to the ball park

The GP and RG400 cylinders with their single exhaust port don't allow enough blowdown time area to make decent power. But I could sleeve an aircooled GP125 cylinder and add a T or tripple exhaust port, but thats not so easy to do with a RG400 cylinder as there is not much meat around the exhaust port area on one of those.



I am not sure what the cause of ND's problems was, or what the sleeve he used was made of, or if he fitted an iron sleeve within the original steel sleeve and had a bad thermal path. I just don't know much about how he went about things but I have heard he made a new sleeve and has pretty much got on top of the long track reliability issues now.

Attachment 230183 Attachment 230184 Attachment 230185

My plan is to use a large diameter, thick walled, plated alloy sleeve and bore the cylinder out as much as possible to maximize the heat transfer area between sleeve and alloy cylinder jacket. And of course it will be put together with CPU heat transfer paste.



I like your idea of using an RG150 cylinder as that would allow a thick sleeve like you suggest and possible a water gallery through the sleeves exhaust bridge too.

Wobbly has been planning everything for me around sleeved down RGV250 cylinders, but I like the idea of a larger sweeping bend up to the transfer port.

Attachment 230180 http://www.2stroke-tuning.nl/media/pdfjes/porting.pdf

Yamaha in their SAE paper said that the number one thing that affected power delivery was the angle of the port entering the cylinder and number two was the radius of the transfer duct, then the upswept angle of the port roof.

I will get Wobblys opinion on the shape and suitability of the RG150's port ducts which look a little different to the RGV's.

Mike are those sleeves the Akunar ones?

[Yow Ling]

Mike are those sleeves the Akunar ones?

yes they are

[husaberg]

yes they are

I was looking there myself yesterday.
http://www.akunar.com/CYLINDER_SLEEVES.htm


A while ago i posted an Excel shreadsheet in Dutch that someone had made up based on a simplified Frits pipe formula
Frits pointed correctly out it should have detailed the restrictor

Here is a better version in English as well.
http://www.underdogsracing.com/fospipe.html

[Flettner]

Briggs and Stratton run straight alloy bores!

[Yow Ling]

Briggs and Stratton run straight alloy bores!

mmmm briggs and Stratton EFi on E80
damn needs to be based on motorcycle engine

[TZ350]

mmmm briggs and Stratton EFi on E80

damn needs to be based on motorcycle engine

No ... only a non competition engine, so a side valve brigs lawnmower motor should be OK. They had alloy bores and flash chromed piston and rings, supercharged and running EFI with E80 fuel and a CVT transmission ... now there is a thought.....

[koba]

No ... only a non competition engine, so a side valve brigs lawnmower motor should be OK. They had alloy bores and flash chromed piston and rings, supercharged and running EFI with E80 fuel and a CVT transmission ... now there is a thought.....

"Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles"
Sorry to be the rules Lawyer...

[husaberg]

Hey guys, I would like to know what do you think about Power porting in engine that have reed valve in cylinder. In Bell book there are only few sentences about it , and he says to cut the piston to get around 200* of opening. Did someone know is there any formula to calculate appropriate degree of opening to get good results or get close to ballpark?

Question for the panel

In the Bell book he mentioned modifying the two crankcase ports in a CR125 cylinder (the old cylinder reed model which has two small ports with link the reed cavity with the crankcase)
He closed them with filler and then shortened the piston skirt to achieve 230 degrees inlet duration.

I did the same mod on my old H100 which has similar ports and a windowless piston but never got around to testing it.
I always wondered how much difference it would actually make and why.

Has anyone ever tried it?
He said he achieved an extra HP or so with the mod.

Edit - re the so called "power port" idea.This was developed as a tuning aid back when engines made no power at all, and running a bigger piston port timing, along with forcing inflow to be pushed thru the boost port, just happened to add a Hp or 2 on top of none to start with.
What we find now is that cylinder reed engines always end up being power limited by the effective STA that can be obtained by cutting holes in pistons, adding big Boyesen ports and even then adding floor ports.
All this is attempting to get the inflow around and or thru the piston that is in the way alot of the time.
That is why case reed is ultimately better when done properly.

I see you have also posted the question on the Pitlane thread........

[pete376403]

From memory the modern Foul strokes don't even need the plating now. Chevy (i think vega) in the 70's started the cast with lots of Silicone or something then etch out the Aluminum later, i think Honda and Yamaha are doing the same now on the R1 and the CBR250 although they might be using MMC or some other ceramic......

Chev Corvair - the flat 6 - was the high silicone ally block.

Anyone other than Kawasaki done the electrofusion cylinder? The description I read long ago was that a wire of some special metal was placed in the cylinder down the bore, and a very high electric current applied. The resultant bang (think of a fuse) sputtered the metal into the cylinder walls.
IIRC this was used in the KX cylinders, among others

Electrofusion cylinder
Improves heat transfer for consistent power output
It is porous so it holds lubrication well
It is hard so it resists abrasion and seizure
Allows closer piston-to-cylinder clearances for more power


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasak...usion_cylinder

[husaberg]

Chev Corvair - the flat 6 - was the high silicone ally block.

Anyone other than Kawasaki done the electrofusion cylinder? The description I read long ago was that a wire of some special metal was placed in the cylinder down the bore, and a very high electric current applied. The resultant bang (think of a fuse) sputtered the metal into the cylinder walls.
IIRC this was used in the KX cylinders, among others

Electrofusion cylinder
Improves heat transfer for consistent power output
It is porous so it holds lubrication well
It is hard so it resists abrasion and seizure
Allows closer piston-to-cylinder clearances for more power


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasak...usion_cylinder

Also added a Apitec and GKN blub missing a page or two bugger maybe someone has the last ones.
What interested me was the squeeze form liners i am not even sure if they still make then as they aren't listed o the either web site.
The site is interesting in which the repairs are carried out i was wondering why i couldn't strip then tig up the whole cylinder and then machine it and re-coat it rather than a sleeve anyway.

Re coating i am not suggesting to send stuff oversea when we have a place in NZ.
Plus yes it would be easier to sleeve a cylinder.

http://www.poetonaptec.co.uk/default.htm
http://www.gkn.com/Pages/default.aspx

Sweet at least it was still chevy re the coating, if you click on the arrow you will see Mahle did it as well likely first.

[TZ350]

"Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles"
Sorry to be the rules Lawyer...

Thanks ... saved me, I was getting all excited about lawn mower engines there for a moment.