Stupid World

[avgas]

Bollox, by no stretch of the imagination is a doctor’s lunch “health spending”. Under exactly the same logic nurses would be eligible for some $100 million of free lunches. All of the “public safety” arguments ignore one important fact: the rest of the world pays for their own lunch and there’s every reason to expect junior doctors to do the same, they get enough handouts as it is.

They will. Across the road. Or at home. Not near the hospital. Where people need doctors/nurses.
Because everyone should just work 40 hour weeks and buy their own lunches in your world.

You're not an accountant per chance?

Though in saying that - I like your thinking. I think it should be global policy. I will kick it off by ditching all my perks and asking for 40% boost in pay and 30% reduction in hours.

[Ocean1]

They will. Across the road. Or at home. Not near the hospital. Where people need doctors/nurses.

They're residents, that used to mean they virtually lived on site. Now it doesn't, and yet the old compensations for that remain. And I still haven't heard why nurses shouldn't be compensated similarly.

Because everyone should just work 40 hour weeks and buy their own lunches in your world.

As I said, residents don't live and work on site as they used to, there's not much unusual about their hours nowadays. I've got no problem with anyone working as many hours as they can agree with their employer. But yes, I have a problem with free lunches, they're a myth, and in this case the ones paying for it are missing out on some 9 million dollars worth of healthcare.

You're not an accountant per chance?

No, I'm someone who pays for his own fucking lunch.

Though in saying that - I like your thinking. I think it should be global policy. I will kick it off by ditching all my perks and asking for 40% boost in pay and 30% reduction in hours.

Go for it, if you can make it stick your employer obviously thinks your worth it. And it's a more honest measure of your worth, eh? Rather than an historic bevy of obsolete perks on top of a very respectable wage for what amounts to an apprentice.

[mashman]

As I said, residents don't live and work on site as they used to, there's not much unusual about their hours nowadays. I've got no problem with anyone working as many hours as they can agree with their employer. But yes, I have a problem with free lunches, they're a myth, and in this case the ones paying for it are missing out on some 9 million dollars worth of healthcare.

Coz it would go back into healthcare wouldn't it?

[Ocean1]

Coz it would go back into healthcare wouldn't it?

It hasn't ever been removed from the health budget.

[avgas]

They're residents, that used to mean they virtually lived on site. Now it doesn't, and yet the old compensations for that remain. And I still haven't heard why nurses shouldn't be compensated similarly.

Exactly. First they were not live-in-residents, but they hang around due to free food/coffee. Now you want to take that away - so you're in reality you supporting this change.
I would like to see the opposite happen. Hell give them free accommodation if they are next the hospital.
Put the workers near the coal face and they will do what is natural. Tell them to find their own means......and they do what is natural, which is eat/live AWAY from work.

I recently did a quick experiment at work. I sold coke via the fridge. $1 can. Nearest competition was 50m across the road @ $4 bottle. Effectively I am saving 15 minutes time per person. So say 4-5 man hours of productivity saved. I suspect this would be better with free coke - but not in a position to test that theory.
In a previous job - I shouted my teams 7am breakfast. Breakfast cost me about $50/day. I think I reclaimed about $500/day in productivity and overtime. So I have done the math here.

I wonder how much hospitals gain by having doctors eating in the mess hall - rather than in a nice cafe 30 minutes from site? I suspect you talk to the admin in a hospital - as your missing the peripheral benefits and concentrating on the $9M loss.

Hell even casinos give punters free food. Ever wonder why?

[mashman]

It hasn't ever been removed from the health budget.

Didn't say it had, but did ask if you thought the 9 million "saved" would go back into healthcare.

[Ocean1]

Exactly. First they were not live-in-residents, but they hang around due to free food/coffee. Now you want to take that away - so you're in reality you supporting this change.
I would like to see the opposite happen. Hell give them free accommodation if they are next the hospital.
Put the workers near the coal face and they will do what is natural. Tell them to find their own means......and they do what is natural, which is eat/live AWAY from work.

No. First they were live-in residents, not supposed to be off site and working long hrs and it made sense to include free meals as part of their remuneration. Many had free accommodation then too, all part of the deal whereby the public health service got relatively cheap services in exchange for training.

Hospitals still train the wee darlings, at a cost that makes the free lunch look like pocket lint, but they get a much, much higher hourly rate. They also get a wide range of perks that nobody’s supposed to notice when the wage round comes around again.

No, let’s have the costs out in the open so the taxpayers can see what the real costs are.

I recently did a quick experiment at work. I sold coke via the fridge. $1 can. Nearest competition was 50m across the road @ $4 bottle. Effectively I am saving 15 minutes time per person. So say 4-5 man hours of productivity saved. I suspect this would be better with free coke - but not in a position to test that theory.
In a previous job - I shouted my teams 7am breakfast. Breakfast cost me about $50/day. I think I reclaimed about $500/day in productivity and overtime. So I have done the math here.

I shout lunch for absolutely anyone working for me at the slightest excuse, it’s worth a lot just in goodwill. But it’s my money, and I sure as fuck wouldn’t be doing it if the guys were taking the piss with outdated perks every time their contract was due.

I wonder how much hospitals gain by having doctors eating in the mess hall - rather than in a nice cafe 30 minutes from site? I suspect you talk to the admin in a hospital - as your missing the peripheral benefits and concentrating on the $9M loss.

As it happens I talk to hospital administrators regularly. To a man/woman they seem to see it as a waste of money they have far better uses for and they see no benefit to the DHBs at all. From a big step back from the industry it sounds like it’s an irritant typical of their general annoyance at the high level of perks available to many professionals in the industry who often point to off-shore incomes as high by comparison.

[Ocean1]

Didn't say it had, but did ask if you thought the 9 million "saved" would go back into healthcare.

Yes, that's exactly what I think.

You think John's henchmen are hovering, waiting for that $9M to hit the balance sheets so they can siphon it off for Bellamy's?

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes, that's exactly what I think.

You think John's henchmen are hovering, waiting for that $9M to hit the balance sheets so they can siphon it off for Bellamy's?

Govt's already taken more money than the Health system can afford to give & somehow you don't think if another 9mil free'd up they wouldn't take that too?
You wanna save the tax payer money lets get rid of Govt perks, lets cap state sector CEO's & upper management, lets bring 'essential' services & infrastructure back in-house.

[mashman]

Yes, that's exactly what I think.

You think John's henchmen are hovering, waiting for that $9M to hit the balance sheets so they can siphon it off for Bellamy's?

Not at all. I'm sure the NZ govt doesn't believe in clawing back money that is being "wasted" and would plough it straight back from whence it came... most likely in the form of bonuses for the important people

[Ocean1]

Govt's already taken more money than the Health system can afford to give & somehow you don't think if another 9mil free'd up they wouldn't take that too?

Indeed?

When was the last time New Zealand's health budget was less than the previous year's?

You wanna save the tax payer money lets get rid of Govt perks, lets cap state sector CEO's & upper management, lets bring 'essential' services & infrastructure back in-house.

No problem with that at all.

Seems possible there'd be some spirited discussion about what was "essential" is all...

[Scuba_Steve]

Seems possible there'd be some spirited discussion about what was "essential" is all...

Well I consider anything "needed" in modern life "essential" so roads, power production & transport, sewage, water, footpaths, etc unsure about phone lines/fibre maybee take control of the lines but leave the Telcos private

this also includes the guys to look after & fix the above mentioned too.

[Banditbandit]

Yes, junior doctors. Do you know what that means? They’re journeymen, they've got their doctorate

No, I'm sorry - they have a bachelor's degre - they are a long way from a Doctorate ... medical Doctor is not he same as PhD ...

and they’re attached to an accredited training institution for a couple of years to practice on the public under supervision. That almost always means one of the larger DHB emergency departments. It also means they fall under the New Zealand resident doctors association, possibly the most virulent and militant union in the country.

: A middle class union the most militant ... Fell about laughing ...

And knowing a few of them I’d say their income ranges from $60k (basic wages) to $90k, plus a range of perks that’d make any politician blush.

See - rather than say "knowing a few .." I looked up the pay scale on the union website - it's $60 grand ... and junior doctors appear to be the most militant because DHBs are notorius for paying no more tan they have to ...

All of the “public safety” arguments ignore one important fact: the rest of the world pays for their own lunch

Do they now ... for real ?? Or just asking your keyboard ... the "rest of the world" is a fucking big place ... ever heard of Expense Accounts FFS ... asnd other wasys of having lunch paid for by work ...

[Banditbandit]

Go for it, if you can make it stick your employer obviously thinks your worth it. And it's a more honest measure of your worth, eh?

Isn't that exactly what the junior doctor's union has done ????

Rather than an historic bevy of obsolete perks on top of a very respectable wage for what amounts to an apprentice.

I love the spin you put on things - do you work for a PR company ???

The difference between your two statements is only a matter of perception - not of fact .. and there's a big difference between apprentices and junuior doctors ... apprentices receive on the job training .. junior doctors recieve four years of training before they are allowed on the job ...

[avgas]

Isn't that exactly what the junior doctor's union has done ????

Yep. But our bold fellow here thinks all the young things want to stay and work in NZ because the money is so good here.

I once had a shitty job and kept it for 9 months purely on the fact I got a holden ute for a work vehicle. I am sure the accountant thought my tire account was a big fat waste of money. My boss knew otherwise, and argued (until he left) that the only reason I did that shit job was due to the fact I had a cool car.

While I am not arguing doctors and nurses will stay due to good, close food........I am not going to discount it either. My 2am trips to Te Rapa were comforted slightly by the fact I drove a cool (at the time) ute.

I wouldn't dare go back on call again though - that ship (and its perks) have sailed. Fuck knows how doctors/nurses do it.