Roastbusters

[jonbuoy]

True, we do have to look out for ourselves as cooperation is not the norm of society.

Naive or stupid? I think not, as the acts you describe happen in plenty of other circumstances and in the vast majority of cases never happen at all under the same circumstances. It's the cunts of the world who make them happen. You can't protect yourself against that, especially if you have been drugged etc... What would you suggest? Stay at home?

Nope just be aware and try and make your kids aware. What would you say to your 13 year old daughter if she wanted to walk home late at night on her own from a party? Would you advise against her getting into a car with two older guys and going back to their place?

[FROSTY:Me]

I have to ask a simple question. What were 13 year old girls doing out at night in a situation where they COULD be raped ?
These are CHILDREN for gosh sakes. Their parents need holding to account.

I'm Not saying for a second that the guys should have done what they say they did Im saying some parental responsibility is needed on the part of the girls parents.

[bluninja]

I have to ask a simple question. What were 13 year old girls doing out at night in a situation where they COULD be raped ?
These are CHILDREN for gosh sakes. Their parents need holding to account.

Maybe they were at a CYFS home where they could abscond on a regular basis perhaps they wait till their parents have gone to bed and are fast asleep and then sneak out. Some parents go above and beyond to keep their children safe, (and others safe from their kids) and their kids still find ways to do these things. If parents are not allowed to physically restrain them, lock them securely in their room, or kill the low lives supplying them with drugs and alcohol then what is there to hold to account?

[Zedder]

True. Although good parenting isn't necessarily a given. It's a great start, but even those with good parents do bad things

I didn't write it always works.

Of course kids from good parenting environments do bad things, it's all part of testing boundaries and becoming who we are.

Other mechanisms are in place which are meant to stop things getting really bad though.

[mashman]

Nope just be aware and try and make your kids aware. What would you say to your 13 year old daughter if she wanted to walk home late at night on her own from a party? Would you advise against her getting into a car with two older guys and going back to their place?

What I advise my kids to do and what they actually do could well be 2 entirely different things. It will be their choice at that moment in time.

[mashman]

I didn't write it always works.

Of course kids from good parenting environments do bad things, it's all part of testing boundaries and becoming who we are.

Other mechanisms are in place which are meant to stop things getting really bad though.

I didn't say you did.

Hell yeah, I mean, I'll beat that out of my kids, ach, I mean, erm, what, shit.

So you mean the law?

[Zedder]

I didn't say you did.

Hell yeah, I mean, I'll beat that out of my kids, ach, I mean, erm, what, shit.

So you mean the law?

Have a think about it, I'm off for a motorbike ride.

[jonbuoy]

What I advise my kids to do and what they actually do could well be 2 entirely different things. It will be their choice at that moment in time.

All you can do is hope they never put themselves into that situation in the first place.

[mashman]

Have a think about it, I'm off for a motorbike ride.

You could just tell me as I'm off out to help a man with his wood.

All you can do is hope they never put themselves into that situation in the first place.

They/We are always in those situations. Call it wrong time wrong place if you like, but we are always in those situations, fortunately at the right place at the right time for the greater percentage of life... ommmmmmmmm

[Mom]

Maybe they were at a CYFS home where they could abscond on a regular basis perhaps they wait till their parents have gone to bed and are fast asleep and then sneak out. Some parents go above and beyond to keep their children safe, (and others safe from their kids) and their kids still find ways to do these things. If parents are not allowed to physically restrain them, lock them securely in their room, or kill the low lives supplying them with drugs and alcohol then what is there to hold to account?

Perhaps it happened during the day even.

[Smifffy]

Porn? No, maybee you should watch some TV. Rihanna, beyonce, beiber, miley, home & away, paris, the oc etc etc theres ya problem, not no porn tween entertainment thats the problem

I managed to parent 3 kids to adulthood. The most important thing I instilled in them was self respect, the knowing that they deserve to be treated with respect, and they in turn should respect others. The sex talks always included the talk about first time sex, and how it should be special. They were told they should it should take place somewhere nice, and it should be a very special time as you only get one go at the first time. No quick fuck in the back seat of a car. It applied to both my daughters and my son. The message was a clear one.

I do wonder if access to the internet and porn and the like has really done a lot of damage and skewed the thinking on what is normal and what is not.

Porn has always been around. I think it's more as SS says, with mainstream attention whores *ahem Miley etc* acting more like porn whores in order to get the attention and $$ they so desperately need. Certainly the access to the porn (and the drugs and alcohol) seems to be easier and easier at younger ages.

This all seems to be the utopia that the state and all of it's apparatus, from the PM, the police, WINZ, Education, Corrections (corrections - hah), even OSH (yeah worksafeNZ -wanksafe?) think we need. Do something really nasty, stupid, evil, and it's all someone else's fault.

[GrayWolf]

I agree witrh you - don't get me wrong, I'm certainly blaming the boys, but yes, what the hell were underaged teenager girls getting into that situation ?? Where were their families ??? ...

Sadly I have to agree, but? Yep there's always a but.. as a Parent of adult children, things have changed, many will say for the better (child abuse).. but the price of the improvement is that parents now have less 'rights' than the kids..... What can you do today if a child decides to climb out a window? (Apart from nail it shut).. if you catch 'em, manhandle them back indoors? and god forbid, if you redden their little arse for them? YOU as the parent are in the shit for either act.....

So people what price 'freedom'? How DO you control teenagers who decide to really act out??
My other question is one of Modern parenting practices.. as a child (even a school age teen) Bed was early, 7pm as a young' un, by 9,30 as a teen..... Yet I see kids of 11/12/13 hanging around various Station's, some going 'home' at 11/12pm..... Sorry they are KIDS, and should NOT be allowed out unsupervised at those times of day....

Roast Busters proves my point exactly.... out of control, en masse!

[FROSTY:Me]

Somewhat sensitive subject.
The nasty word "RAPE" being bandied around by the media. Are we talking actual rape or underage sex?
I get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex.
The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group.
Yes getting a person of any age drunk/stoned to have sex is pretty low but why muddy the water with the age issue?

[scumdog]

On their recent record, they should have had someone innocent fitted up for this and inside by now.

It was David Bain.....on the grassy mound...

[pzkpfw]

Somewhat sensitive subject.
The nasty word "RAPE" being bandied around by the media. Are we talking actual rape or underage sex?
I get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex.
The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group.
Yes getting a person of any age drunk/stoned to have sex is pretty low but why muddy the water with the age issue?

The reason we have a concept of underage sex is that we've decided that under a certain age, a person isn't really capable of giving informed consent.

That's why it's called "age of consent". http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/y...ges-of-consent

So by definition, underage sex is rape *, because the underage person couldn't give consent; and it's partly to protect against predators. You don't think a 17 year old screwing a 13 year old is all that wrong? What about 18/12? What about 19/11? ...? Fact is: we have the laws as they are, and the boys must have known the laws. And given their boasting, they clearly knew they were doing something akin to what you'd say "dirty old men" do.

(* I'll admit to being less certain about cases where both parties are underage.)



(Geez, when I was 18, I was desperate for sex, and wouldn't have had many qualms about how I (consentingly) got it. But there's no way I would have slept with a 13 year old (let alone all that getting her drunk stuff). I'd have felt like a molester - and I'm sure anyone I knew would have thought that of me too. This stuff is not about "the same peer group". When I was in 7th form (and was 17), the 13 year olds at school already seemed like children. (Not that I was really as "grown up" as I thought I was at that age).)