In the mind of a 10 year old maybe, but in the real world they are not.Originally Posted by mashman
Both jobs might be important but not equal.
troglodytam extraordinaire
In the mind of a 10 year old maybe, but in the real world they are not.
Both jobs might be important but not equal.
Aio ki te Aorangi
Obviously we can survive a bin strike. We can survive without Doctors too.
Don't sweat it, you'll only get detention.
Bullshit. Try living without either, which was the point of the exercise. You've been indoctrinated to think in such a way, she hasn't. And I'm unlearning that indoctrination.
Define not equal.
I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!
troglodytam extraordinaire
easy, through out history people have gone to doctors/healers etc for their knowledge on how to heal someone.
I can't say I've ever heard of bin collectors being sort for their knowledge of rubbish collecting.
you know apples and oranges
In the riders seat
You mean you're indoctrinating her your way
Given the choice between the two, I'd rather live without the bin man any day of the week, a doctor has been far more use to me in my lifetime than any bin man
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Aio ki te Aorangi
Fair point. They are not equal in knowledge. Doesn't mean they should earn more.easy, through out history people have gone to doctors/healers etc for their knowledge on how to heal someone.
I can't say I've ever heard of bin collectors being sort for their knowledge of rubbish collecting.
you know apples and oranges
She's gonna find her own way... but she will get the other side of the coin from me. That's fair isn't it?
So you'd happily go into a town that has rubbish all over the place and buy the fly covered produce?
In the riders seat
Why would I need to go into town when I can grow my own, you're also making the assumption no one will clean up after themselves
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Loud and Uncouth
... you've obviously never lived through a bin strike. And that was 30+ years ago... there's a more rubbish today on account of their being more people. Plus it's pretty tricky to do without a car if the local tip is 10k's away. Nice sentiment, but.........
.
That will learn you for living in a freakin' city...
Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
" Life is not a rehearsal, it's as happy or miserable as you want to make it"
Aio ki te Aorangi
Lucky you. I am assuming that, but only because I've seen that happen. As you say, we may all go to the tip and dump our own... apart from those who don't have transport.
I know. De missus ain't so keen to change that.
The Majestic Metal Wizard
not sure on the point you are trying to make here?
You did - you said there was a single virtual Bank controlling the import and export of Resources in NOW
Who said anything about new Ferrari's? One thing you fail to take into account is that some people may well be happy with the 5k - 10k car that gets them from A to B. How many cars are already in the country? How many people who need cars don't have them? I ask from the perspective that not everyone drives into or out of town. They may only go to the station etc...
So you have problems exercising personal responsibility for the good of your fellow country men. In theory it IS possible to get everyone a car. It may not be the best car in the world, but it's a car, get over it. It's even possible, in theory, to for all of us to drive Ferrari's, but a you highlight, we may only end up getting 10 or 20 into the country each year because other country's will be buying them... and from what I know of Ferrari ownership, you get invited to buy new one's. But yeah, if you can;t be personally responsible for the good of your fellow country men, maybe you'll find your Ferrari on fire some day. Not through envy, but revenge for you being an inconsiderate wanker.
If there aren't a list of specific providers currently, then NOW won't need them easier because the mechanisms and the products are already in place to bring in the variants. Who knows, maybe having a preferred supplier for certain items NZ may get a better deal for a better product.
The GDP must remain a close to the current GDP as possible to avoid financial shocks around the world.
So NO, removing customer choice has nothing to do with NOW.
PS - It's called personal responsibility.
And now we get to the Biggest Fallacy in your theory - Personal Responsibility. an individual may have personal Responsibility, but people sure as Fuck don't
Don't believe me? lets look at some non-financial crimes (so you can't blame money) that wouldn't exist if people have personal responsibility
Speeding
Drink Driving
Unsafe Cars (WOF violations)
Domestic Abuse
Child Abuse
Drug Abuse
Arson
I can keep going on, but you get the point - No one has personal Responsibility - and under NOW they won't have personal Responsibility oh and FYI: your remark in that spiel:
Is exactly what NOW will implement when it takes away your consumer choice to choose what car you want - you will be presented with a list of 'approved' cars and when you complain you will be told "It may not be the best car in the world, but it's a car, get over it." - so again, I have proved under your NOW system, consumer choice will be lost.
Okay, quick lesson in the difference between inate human nature and Learned Behaviour - in the UK, we shake hands, in Europe, a kiss on the Cheek, in Maori culture - we touch noses, in Japan we bow. - these are all greetings but they are learned - we can tell they are learned because there are regional and cultural differences.
An inate behaviour is Identical in such a high percentage of different cultural and regional sample groups that it can be proved to be Common across all People. As we grow up we learn to repress/control/channel these behaviours - but that is Learned. the Behaviours are still there.
Don't believe me? well go to each one of those countries I listed above and try and take a Child from its mother - and if you repeat the experiment enough times, you will notice that the results are the same in such a high percentage of experiments that the behaviour is inate.
But people will just want to work for you? I mean some people will still be builders because they like to build right? isn't that what you have been saying? Or are you conceeding that people need a reward (financial, monetary or other) to do work for others? Cause it sounds like that is what you saying - which kinda invalidates half of your arguements
Not all skills can be learned - sorry. Creative problem solving is one that cannot be learned - sure you can learn the Rote method of Problem solving, but when that fails, you need somone with the ability to think outside the box.
as for why we aren't all grass cutters - simple, it pays like shit, Because it is easy.
All NZ Statutes are online and free to read - if all it takes it some Knowledge then everyone would be lawyers right? except it doesn't. It takes intelligence, it takes Law school (one of my Good friends is a Lawyer, one of the Smarter people I know and he admits Law school was difficult). Simple truth is that Idiots (or anyone with a Low IQ) can't intepret, apply and use abstract concepts and arguments that are necessary in Lawyering
As for you last part - Wah Fucking Wah - These people get paid more than me because their job requires intelligence and mine doesn't. Given the ready availability of Education in this country - don't like it? Get a Student loan and take a course!
Oh Wait, thats right, the people that often complain about that are the same people that fail those courses because "they are too hard" - to sum up - Tall Poppy Syndrome in the extreme.
Seriously Mashman - take out a History book and look at our Long and well documentated history of humans being Cunts to one another. You will probably try and blame money or something else, but the real blame is with the people that were doing the Cunty actions - sometimes in the full knowledge that what they were doing was wrong... but did it anyway. for every 1 example you can provide me of people not being Cunts - I can provide you with 10 were they where - which roughly translates to a ratio of People are cunts 90% of the time.
I provided sources where I quoted specific stats or data sets - I asked you to back up one of your points - you have advised you won't - in Debating rules, thats an automatic Win for me.
I must have missed the Memo where people have stopped killing each other, and fucking each other over
Oh wait, thats right, people still do that - so yep we are still exhibiting those Behaviours on a Daily basis.
There is not a Stat, Example, Lesson from History, Mathematical equation or intervention from a higher power that will convince you, you are incorrect. I have displayed much logic and Reason and where needed to, backed up with objective facts - you declined to backup some of your points with the same, so stop calling the Kettle black and display the courtesy of which you accuse me of lacking.
At least with Financially backed wars - and I am not going to say that they weren't (not because I believe they were purely financially backed, I just don't need to for this point) we have not commited the atrocities enacted by those of Faith - even the Worst Abuses in Abu Graib where a walk in the part compared to what some of the Religous warlords are doing in central Africe as we speak.
I would rather a war over money without the Genocide, than a war over Faith with.
I don't order Money - I wish I did, I EARN money and then convert it. Without the Earnt money to convert in the first place - how do I go overseas.
I can't have a Credit Card under NOW - not only will I have no money to make the Repayments, but a Credit Card is part of that Evil Financial system we are Abolishing remember - so again I ask, how will I go overseas under NOW?
As for your comment about 'we don't all need or want to go overseas' is exactly the attitude as to why it will Fail - I was born in the UK, I still have family there and I still NEED to go for important Family events - just because you don't want to go and are so shortsighted to see why anyone else will need to go, doesn't mean they need to.
Yep, its called smuggling and people will RAPE NZ to score a profit overseas
Cause New is preferable to repaired/second hand/damaged - again look at our culture - we repair when we have to, we replace when we can. With no obsticle to replace all the time, people won't
The same reaosn people can't change the current financial system - a small group hold all the controls - and NOW will be no different
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Just faidin away!
Absolutely correct unless this point is sorted out nothing else will be "allowed to succeed" because that small group (Deathly dedicated) hold all the aces!
Nothing more left to say really ... fix it or forget it and just go with the flow!
Come warm yourself by the fire
Inflation rate?
Reactor Online. Sensors Online. Weapons Online. All Systems Nominal.
troglodytam extraordinaire
it's called supply and demand.
Come warm yourself by the fire
So if your smarter you shouldn't earn more.
Didn't work so well for Russia.
Also a guy named Ponzi rings a bell when assuming that just because people earn the same.....one won't rip off another?
Reactor Online. Sensors Online. Weapons Online. All Systems Nominal.
Bogeyman
Should?
According to who?
'Cause the people paying for that knowledge don't agree with you.
Which kinda makes your opinion on what they "should" earn completely irrelevant.
But like I keep saying, you go right ahead and offer whoever you want whatever you like for their knowledge and the work they use it for, don't let the fact that nobody else agrees with you slow you down.
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Aio ki te Aorangi
You said: "That a pretty incompatible system if 99.9% of it has to be destroyed so that 0.1% can exist". That's life I said. Things die as a natural progression, so essentially you're saying that life is an incompatible system. The financial system should be next.
I said that banking would control the money. Just like payroll don;t run the country, they merely pay the bills.
But we're talking financial crimes. As for personal responsibility, make your mind up, either people have it or they don't. Hint: an indicidual is a member of the people. In a system that legislates for the ripping off of people, it's hardly surprising that it happens. The law has replaced morality, in fact when morality comes into the argument, some folks generally trot out all sort of little meme's like, hippy, lefty, doo-gooder etc... and all to hide their own lack of morals. NOW can provide an environment where that is less likely to happen on a day to day basis. Doesn't mean that that will happen across the board, you'd have to be mad to think ptherwise... but it certainly doesn't mean that things wouldn't change for the better... far from it.
What are the reasons for non-financial crime? There are many. One of them will be financial stress (payiong for Doctors, ever increasing bills, 55% of the population struggling to the point where they need to be subsidised etc...). MAYBE, so of your list could be addressed through less stress.
It's what currently happens! If there is a car on a car lot (yes, they will exist), thenyou have your choice of those cars. There will be no list. As I said, get over it. A debate is a two way street. It requires some understanding of both sides of the argument in order to make sweeping generalisations. I understand both sides of the argument. You don't. So all you have proven is that you don't understand NOW in the slightest.
WTF have you been smoking man. You told me to design the system. I told you I needed to get money so that I could pay for people's time. It's how it currently happens. End of.
I didn't ask for stats. You used them to backup your argument. I didn't read the links. Yeah, you win. I didn;t argue the statistics
Does the majotiry of the population kill? No. You said human nature needs to be common trait. Get your story straight son.
WE aren't, a small number of people are... as it is THEY wanting war, and they PAY people to act on their behalf. Why did the majority of the US/UK not want war with Iraq? Why do the Palestinian and Israeli people not fight to the death?
Of course there is. You telling me that you know me better than I know me only makes me laugh and marvel at the stupidity of you so called smart people. I have refuted your logic and reason, therefore it is not logic and reason, so so far you have had my courtesy. You putting words into my mouth is not courtesy.
Fuck off, I read the first 6 words and refuse to read that paragraph any further. There is no justification for war.
How do you convert the money? You order it at the bank (estate agency, bureau de change etc...), if it's there, you pick it up there and then. I don't understand what you mean in the rest of your sentence.
Did I say you couldn't have a credit card under NOW? No, you made it up. Repayments requires money
I disagree.
Not content with putting words into my mouth, you go ahead and put words into everyone else's mouth too.
I've already explained how NOW will be different in regards to the groups holding the controls. If you don't accept that, that's your problem.
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