Hampton Down$

[Dreama]

Cheers for that Mr Guido.
A good heads up on the what's involved in running an event. It's quite a process so it's interesting to see it so well documented.
I'm very surprised about the Pukey bit, the cost that is, not the bumps.

I guess the bit that really sucks about HD now, to me at least, is that the club circuit seems average and unappealing. That's a statement said without having ridden it, but compared with the the big new circuit, it doesn't excite me.
I know and appreciate there are reasons for using it, but that doesn't change the facts.

[Autech]

CAMS once emailed all members before a round n broke down the costs in interest of getting riders to show up to the meet rain hail or shine.

It went something along the lines of (figures inaccurate but you get the gist):
"The first 30 riders pay for the track hire
The next 20 pay for the ambulance
The next 20 pay for the marshals lunches
Only after there can we put money into the clubs coffers, so get out there and race"

Seemed to work as that day was bloody busy with lots of racing. Maybe if the riders at Hampton knew this kind of information the numbers will show, the club will build up a safety net cause if a meet costs them they will eventually stop putting them on.



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[Guido]

Cheers for that Mr Guido.
A good heads up on the what's involved in running an event. It's quite a process so it's interesting to see it so well documented.
I'm very surprised about the Pukey bit, the cost that is, not the bumps.

I guess the bit that really sucks about HD now, to me at least, is that the club circuit seems average and unappealing. That's a statement said without having ridden it, but compared with the the big new circuit, it doesn't excite me.
I know and appreciate there are reasons for using it, but that doesn't change the facts.

I don't know if you ever rode the old club circuit at Pukekohe, but for a simple design it was certainly fun to ride and provided very good racing. Having spoken to several riders who have ridden the new Club Circuit at HD, it is a challenging and enjoyable circuit. Throttle control and racing line selection are paramount.

I understand that the Auckland Club are worried about the pricing of their club series, that is why they are using both the National Circuit and the Club circuit for their Championship rounds, but there is nothing else they can do. Taupo or Manfeild circuits are not really feasible due to the cost of getting Marshalls and Officials there and home again and accommodating them at the venues. Add in Track Hire and you are in the same situation as running at HD. Expensive.
It appears to me that AMCC are between a Rock and a hard place. They set the entry fee at a level where they make a small profit and continue, or they subsidise the Entry Fees so that eventually they go broke, or they effectively go into hibernation and they drastically reduce the events they run. That latter two options would of course lead to reduced membership and inevitably non existence.

MMMMMMM. What do they do? Any suggestions? Please be constructive as this affects the sport we all love with a passion, because eventually ALL Circuits will have to increase prices and address the OSH issues, it has just happened in Auckland first.

[Guido]

CAMS once emailed all members before a round n broke down the costs in interest of getting riders to show up to the meet rain hail or shine.

It went something along the lines of (figures inaccurate but you get the gist):
"The first 30 riders pay for the track hire
The next 20 pay for the ambulance
The next 20 pay for the marshals lunches
Only after there can we put money into the clubs coffers, so get out there and race"

Seemed to work as that day was bloody busy with lots of racing. Maybe if the riders at Hampton knew this kind of information the numbers will show, the club will build up a safety net cause if a meet costs them they will eventually stop putting them on.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good idea, but I don't have the costs. Lets see if the AMCC Admin see this. Maybe they can release the figures.

[sharp2183]

I don't know if you ever rode the old club circuit at Pukekohe, but for a simple design it was certainly fun to ride and provided very good racing. Having spoken to several riders who have ridden the new Club Circuit at HD, it is a challenging and enjoyable circuit. Throttle control and racing line selection are paramount.

I understand that the Auckland Club are worried about the pricing of their club series, that is why they are using both the National Circuit and the Club circuit for their Championship rounds, but there is nothing else they can do. Taupo or Manfeild circuits are not really feasible due to the cost of getting Marshalls and Officials there and home again and accommodating them at the venues. Add in Track Hire and you are in the same situation as running at HD. Expensive.
It appears to me that AMCC are between a Rock and a hard place. They set the entry fee at a level where they make a small profit and continue, or they subsidise the Entry Fees so that eventually they go broke, or they effectively go into hibernation and they drastically reduce the events they run. That latter two options would of course lead to reduced membership and inevitably non existence.

MMMMMMM. What do they do? Any suggestions? Please be constructive as this affects the sport we all love with a passion, because eventually ALL Circuits will have to increase prices and address the OSH issues, it has just happened in Auckland first.

What about increasing the attendee numbers and the value of the day rather than decreasing the cost?

Review classes. What about the introduction of a pre-95 class to bolster numbers in the post classic field? When I started racing 6 years ago it was still pre-89. 6 years on basic logic dictates this should change to reflect time passed.

Cross entry. Why is this so cheap? Make it $80 to cross enter. Still great value relative to the entry fees. Or

Review the structure of the day. AMCC start their days sooo late. Why does practice not start at 8.30 or 9am on the dot? Too much time lost that leads to the perception that riders only get half a day of riding. If there were three 12 lap races the laps per dollar would increase. Better value. Surely there are ways to reduce times throughout the day to increase track time? Streamline briefings with minimal unneeded talking (main points only), plus start them earlier. Seriously, how many people need to have their say at the briefing?

I personally accept that prices go up and I am willing to pay, I just struggle with the cost per lap and the fact that everyone gets there early but waits so long for the day to get going.

[roogazza]

I know we have a few oldies on here still, I started in 1970. But most of my years we had prize money at these meetings and it was a good amount too for the day. From memory it was $120 for a win,compare that to what a tyre cost then,about 50 bucks for TT100 ! (cos that's what everyone used haha.)
Someone somewhere is making money here ?

No Spectators means the downward spiral will continue.Maybe the death of Street Circuits was the beginning ?
If you think H/Downs is shafting ya,walk ! Go somewhere else.

[MrMarko]

I know we have a few oldies on here still, I started in 1970. But most of my years we had prize money at these meetings and it was a good amount too for the day. From memory it was $120 for a win,compare that to what a tyre cost then,about 50 bucks for TT100 ! (cos that's what everyone used haha.)
Someone somewhere is making money here ?

No Spectators means the downward spiral will continue.Maybe the death of Street Circuits was the beginning ?
If you think H/Downs is shafting ya,walk ! Go somewhere else.

"Hey should we go spectate?"

the answer is almost always...

"I'll just want to be out there myself"

The only spectators at these days tend to be friends or family... Myself personally i'm not going to watch club level racing because i'd much rather be out there myself.

When people go oh trackday cost is too high oh i cant get it by the wife etc... So you cant do one less trackday a year so it doesn't cost any more?

I'm just going to stick with my earlier conclusion. Racing or even trackdays are not for poor people. It's a luxury.

[roogazza]

I hear ya, but spectators in those days were family and friends too,well many were.
It's just that there were way more entrants.
I'm the same,would rather have a lash than watch other turkeys having the fun.

Trackdays : you pay your money and get the thrill of shagging a set of tyres. I'm over that phase as well.

[MrMarko]

I hear ya, but spectators in those days were family and friends too,well many were.
It's just that there were way more entrants.
I'm the same,would rather have a lash than watch other turkeys having the fun.

Trackdays ,you pay your money and get the thrill of shagging a set of tyres,$500 bucks nowdays. Neat !

Can't really complain at the cost of running a bike.

Fuelling the tow car and pulling a 1.6 tonne car on a tandom transporter to a drift day... track fees, fuel for the race car, tyres.... lots and lots of tyres... it makes for an expensive weekend.

Racing a bike suddenly seems extremely cheap.

[rustys]

[QUOTE=sharp2183;1131001128]What about increasing the attendee numbers and the value of the day rather than decreasing the cost?

Review classes. What about the introduction of a pre-95 class to bolster numbers in the post classic field? When I started racing 6 years ago it was still pre-89. 6 years on basic logic dictates this should change to reflect time passed.

Cross entry. Why is this so cheap? Make it $80 to cross enter. Still great value relative to the entry fees. Or

Review the structure of the day. AMCC start their days sooo late. Why does practice not start at 8.30 or 9am on the dot? Too much time lost that leads to the perception that riders only get half a day of riding. If there were three 12 lap races the laps per dollar would increase. Better value. Surely there are ways to reduce times throughout the day to increase track time? Streamline briefings with minimal unneeded talking (main points only), plus start them earlier. Seriously, how many people need to have their say at the briefing. I personally accept that prices go up and I am willing to pay, I just struggle with the cost per lap and the fact that everyone gets there early but waits so long for the day to get going.

Think we all have to face facts that prices are just going to continue to increase one way or the other, just like our house Rates, and the cost of living.

Sharp2183 : you have made an important point here, the Clubs ALSO! must sharpen up there act here and be better organised, I see to much time wasted in getting the day underway, we as riders are the ones paying for the track hire, so why should we not be out there getting what we pay for and making every dollar count.
In the past I have seen some brilliantly run meetings and enjoyed every minute of them where the day starts ON TIME, with an extra pick up vehicle used if needed, half hour for lunch, and when the afternoon looks like its running ahead of schedule, more laps get added to each race class at the end of the day, so that the last race is finished bang ON TIME, that's value for your dollar.

Never been keen on adding more classes to the Racing, as I have felt it reduces racing time, but in reality the sport has now become a numbers game, the more bikes on the track will help reduce costs, even if we have to combine the classes up a little.

I have been racing for 13 years, and now retired from work, so I am also having to budget to make changes and be a little selective where I race and when. Lets face it its not going to get any better, and the outlook is not looking good.

[Guido]

What about increasing the attendee numbers and the value of the day rather than decreasing the cost?

Review classes. What about the introduction of a pre-95 class to bolster numbers in the post classic field? When I started racing 6 years ago it was still pre-89. 6 years on basic logic dictates this should change to reflect time passed.

Cross entry. Why is this so cheap? Make it $80 to cross enter. Still great value relative to the entry fees. Or

Review the structure of the day. AMCC start their days sooo late. Why does practice not start at 8.30 or 9am on the dot? Too much time lost that leads to the perception that riders only get half a day of riding. If there were three 12 lap races the laps per dollar would increase. Better value. Surely there are ways to reduce times throughout the day to increase track time? Streamline briefings with minimal unneeded talking (main points only), plus start them earlier. Seriously, how many people need to have their say at the briefing?

I personally accept that prices go up and I am willing to pay, I just struggle with the cost per lap and the fact that everyone gets there early but waits so long for the day to get going.

Thank you for the feedback.
The Pre 95 class is scheduled for a launch next year I think.
Ambulances are now booked to be on circuit at 7.45 to allow an 8.00am start.
The briefings point is valid, however there are still and the mandatory Duty of care, Red Flag proceedures etc that must be dealt with.
From memory the club made the races for National Classes longer at the meeting prior to Nationals last year. Should this be the case for the Series as a whole?

[insomnia01]

Me.

Except from kihikihi now so a bit more than 45 minutes.

where in the big smoke are you??

[sharp2183]

Thank you for the feedback.
The Pre 95 class is scheduled for a launch next year I think.
Ambulances are now booked to be on circuit at 7.45 to allow an 8.00am start.
The briefings point is valid, however there are still and the mandatory Duty of care, Red Flag proceedures etc that must be dealt with.
From memory the club made the races for National Classes longer at the meeting prior to Nationals last year. Should this be the case for the Series as a whole?

I think that yes, if each race day is run more efficiently, starts earlier and everyone's races are extended (i.e. we get 3x12 laps for F1/F2 and maybe 10 for other classes) then everyone would be happier. I had a great time that day, but it was a bit of a bummer there were only two races instead of 3.

The easiest way to increase track time for each rider is to increase the laps per race, rather than add another race. With the same number of warm up laps, starts and cool down laps you would increase the total time in the day by the total time of the extra laps only.

Let's say you find a compromise and extend races by 2 laps. If you assume a very slow average lap time of 1.25 for the national track then an additional 2 laps for 6 classes for 3 races each will amount to just over 50 minutes extra in the day. I'm sure though an early start and some better time management the club can find at least an hour. That would be a great start. My opinion only of course but I have talked to a few of the 'maybe I'll come' racers who do count the value of these days.

We need to accept that the price is high. But if the club can increase the perceived value of the day then it will become an easier pill to swallow.

[Guido]

Just as we make progress here I have been reminded that riders MUST be off the circuit by 4.30pm. If it goes past 4.30 there is a "Twilight" charge for running over time, still, as long as everyone knows, there will not be a problem.
I am sure AMCC will be thankful for the input from you guys and will implement everything they can. Any further suggestions will be warmly embraced.

[Doppleganger]

Priced high has a long term negative effect.
The people you want to start racing at a young age cant afford these kind of prices.
The young riders who wont attend due to lower than average incomes are the guys that would have kept the numbers up later on.
Look forward to a decrease of talent later.

And this is the main problem, the young talent just wont be there in the future because they simply cant afford it.

I know we have a few oldies on here still, I started in 1970. But most of my years we had prize money at these meetings and it was a good amount too for the day. From memory it was $120 for a win,compare that to what a tyre cost then,about 50 bucks for TT100 ! (cos that's what everyone used haha.)
Someone somewhere is making money here ?

No Spectators means the downward spiral will continue.Maybe the death of Street Circuits was the beginning ?
If you think H/Downs is shafting ya,walk ! Go somewhere else.

Many already have inc me. "no loss" you may say but that's one less bike on the grid, one less MNZ member, one less club member.....again on a positive note a happy wife and kids and a bit more spending money for the family holiday.

Good idea, but I don't have the costs. Lets see if the AMCC Admin see this. Maybe they can release the figures.

I get the impression this might be a telling year for AMCC, if the numbers continue to fall and the 'Club' circuit turns out to be unappealing and HD continue to undercut their entry fees with their ride days price. Guess who's going to be the winner here.....go figure....the rich getting richer again.