Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Drew]

Dare I say it - including Andrew Wakefield.

You mean the guy who was considerably less than open with his science. Deliberately skewed results. And took payment from big pharma for a vaccine he'd designed?


You are a fucking moron. You don't deserve to share air with the people who make working vaccines, let alone pick holes in what they do.

Fuck off and die.

[Virago]

And do I take that to mean other countries don't include stillbirths in their infant mortality figures?

Correct. Even the US doesn't.

Well, you know what they say - "every person cured is a customer lost".

Source?

[Katman]

The US's early gestational death rate includes any premature baby that is born alive, no matter how briefly. In other countries babies that are born alive but below certain survival parameters are classified as stillborn. This variance in classification makes an appreciable difference to the US mortality figures.

Correct. Even the US doesn't.

Well now you've got me confused.

So which are the ones that the US count - which the other countries don't - which would skew the figures?

[TheDemonLord]

Faaaaark

I go on-call for one week and suddenly there's a flurry of Posts!

[Katman]

Faaaaark

I go on-call for one week and suddenly there's a flurry of Posts!

We've seen you checking it out periodically.

[TheDemonLord]

We've seen you checking it out periodically.

Yup, when I restart my browser as part of testing something or when I've left a tab open.

[Virago]

Well now you've got me confused.

So which are the ones that the US count - which the other countries don't - which would skew the figures?

The ones that are born alive, however briefly, which fall below the accepted survivable limits (21 weeks gestation and 400 grams from memory).

[Virago]

So you seem to be saying that in other countries, premature babies that are born alive but below certain survival parameters (which I assume means that they go on to die) are classed as stillborn and are included in the infant mortality rate, but in the US, premature babies that are born alive no matter however briefly that fall below accepted survivable limits, are also included in the infant mortality rate figures.

What part am I not getting?

One last attempt...

In any country (as far as I know) any baby which is delivered dead is not included in infant mortality statistics. This includes the US.

In most countries a baby which is delivered alive but is below the accepted survivable limits, is deemed to be either a miscarriage or stillbirth. As such it is not included as an infant mortality.

However, this is not the case in the US. They classify such live but non-survivable preterm deliveries as legal births, and as such also as legal deaths. This adds quite significantly to their official infant mortality statistics.

It's all down to semantics - and perhaps views about the legal status of the unborn.

[Katman]

One last attempt...

Yeah, I'd actually managed to work it out - so I'd deleted the post.

Thanks for your perseverance though.

[Virago]

Yeah, I'd actually managed to work it out - so I deleted the post.

Thanks for your perseverance though.

No problem - I've been trying to reply all morning.

Clarification of thought - it's entirely possible that many other countries classify their preterm baby deaths in the same manner as the US - I'm not aware of any available stats. However, it is confirmed that in this issue, the US is at odds with their comparable western counterparts.

[Katman]

Does anyone else think that the fact the CDC sells vaccines shows something of a conflict of interest?

[Katman]

And in 2002 Dr Gary Goldman, resigned from his position as Research Analyst at the CDC, when his investigation and findings of inconsistencies in vaccine test data was stonewalled by the CDC - stating, "When research data and information concerning potential adverse effects associated with a vaccine used in human populations are suppressed and/or misrepresented by health authorities, not only is this most disturbing, this goes against all accepted norms and compromises professional ethics".

[Ocean1]

Does anyone else think that the fact the CDC sells vaccines shows something of a conflict of interest?

Don't you sell bike paraphinalia?

[Katman]

Don't you sell bike paraphinalia?

Not really the same thing though, is it?

I'm not the one who gets to mandate what motorcyclists have to wear.

[Katman]

And let's not forget that even Andrew Wakefield has never said "do not vaccinate your child".

In regards to the MMR vaccine he only ever said that it would be preferable to go back to the single shot vaccines or put the triple dose vaccine off till the child was slightly older.