Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[TheDemonLord]

You were doing so well, I was agreeing with everything you were saying right up to the above point

He killed mega thousands more than Biden ever did with his disastrous denial of covid and subsequent bullshit response and MANY mass rallies etc.
You are the free pass king. Your idea of being hard on Trump is forgoing the massage lube while giving him a loving shoulder rub

I knew that was coming - the difference here being that Biden directly caused it.

The withdraw mess is totally on Biden. He really showed his true colors with regards to just not giving a fuck. I also feel he totally was surprised just how fast the Afghan "army" folded. He figured he had more time to evacuate. What a knob.

Also, he could of expunged Trumps plans to withdraw, he had no problem doing that to most of Trumps other policies.

Other countries really need to take notice of what Americas "help" actually means. They will throw you to the wolves anytime it suits them.

The only real 2 points of disagreement from me are about the Surprise of Collapse - Every Military source I watch/listen to said multiple times (before and after this) that the ANA were incompetent in the extreme - and I'm sure that the higher-ups relayed that to the Administration- as you say, he just doesn't give a Fuck (whether that's consciously or just y'know, the thing...)

The second point is about America's Help - MANY Americans, on both sides of the standard political are appalled at not only the failure but how their allies were treated, especially the brits and the Afghans that helped.

I don't take this as an example of 'America's Help' - I take this entirely as an example of 'the Woke Democrats Help'

[sugilite:Me]

I knew that was coming - the difference here being that Biden directly caused it.

Unilke you I do not have a blind spot with either Biden or Trump. I hold Trump DIRECTLY responsible for thousands of covid deaths by first denying it, then misinformation and so on.

The only real 2 points of disagreement from me are about the Surprise of Collapse - Every Military source I watch/listen to said multiple times (before and after this) that the ANA were incompetent in the extreme - and I'm sure that the higher-ups relayed that to the Administration- as you say, he just doesn't give a Fuck (whether that's consciously or just y'know, the thing...)

The second point is about America's Help - MANY Americans, on both sides of the standard political are appalled at not only the failure but how their allies were treated, especially the brits and the Afghans that helped.

I don't take this as an example of 'America's Help' - I take this entirely as an example of 'the Woke Democrats Help'

Fair enough on point one, but back to being Sir Glossover on point 2. Trump pulling the US out of Syria and leaving the kurds to be massacred by Turkey slip your mind?

[pritch]

I knew that was coming - the difference here being that Biden directly caused it.
I don't take this as an example of 'America's Help' - I take this entirely as an example of 'the Woke Democrats Help'

Biden "caused" nowt. His handling of the withdrawal was lousy and that's on him, but that's all.

There is a telling speech on Twitter from a USMC battalion commander who criticised the military chiefs. The next day he was an ex battalion commander of course. The top service chiefs have been widely accused of believing their own bullshit. If they passed their bullshit on to Biden that could account for his "relaxed" approach to the onrushing debacle.

Veterans' groups had been agitating for urgent evacuation of Afghan allies for weeks but there was no action taken until far too late. Whatever the reason for the lethargy, the buck stops with Biden for that.

The New Zealand government did not even discuss assistance to NZ's allies until after the day after the Taliban had taken Bamiyan province. By then it would have been impossible to travel from Bamiyan to Kabul. They rescued some that had assisted in Kabul, but that's even worse than Biden's effort.

[TheDemonLord]

Unilke you I do not have a blind spot with either Biden or Trump. I hold Trump DIRECTLY responsible for thousands of covid deaths by first denying it, then misinformation and so on.

Of course, as is your want and right - I don't, just like I don't hold Boris responsible or Jacinda responsible for any deaths caused by Covid.

Fair enough on point one, but back to being Sir Glossover on point 2. Trump pulling the US out of Syria and leaving the kurds to be massacred by Turkey slip your mind?

I've got some respect for the Kurds - but I think the relationship between the US and the UK is a little bit closer and deeper. Even the Centre-Left British news outlets are condemning the buggery out of Biden for not even giving the UK a Heads Up.

[TheDemonLord]

Biden "caused" nowt. His handling of the withdrawal was lousy and that's on him, but that's all.

A Lousy pull out?

Try the worst Military humiliation for the US on the World stage since Vietnam.

And I'm genuinely serious about that - Compare Trump's approach:

'Here's the Deal, Oh - you've reneged on the Deal, Here's a MOAB, Now accept the Deal'

Very effective and let's everyone know that if you play nice, you will likely get a favourable outcome, don't play nice and you get the full-force of the US Military might. Not very Subtle or graceful, but it let's everyone know that Lethal Force at short notice is an option on the table if you don't comply.

Biden's approach: "We've been reduced to having the Taliban run security for us" - That statement (well, his actual statement, not my paraphrased quote), moreso than the actions was probably the most Militarily Impotent thing I've ever heard, from any president, in history.

It's told the World that the US has no Teeth. His Statement was an absolute disgrace. His Press Pantomimes, even with pre-prepared questions still made the US sound weak and incompetent.

Time will tell, but I'm putting this as the biggest failure in US foreign Policy for a long time, because I suspect every warlord in certain parts of the world who were scarred that Trump might drone strike them or drop a MOAB on them now doesn't have to worry about US Military intervention.

There is a telling speech on Twitter from a USMC battalion commander who criticised the military chiefs. The next day he was an ex battalion commander of course. The top service chiefs have been widely accused of believing their own bullshit. If they passed their bullshit on to Biden that could account for his "relaxed" approach to the onrushing debacle.

Veterans' groups had been agitating for urgent evacuation of Afghan allies for weeks but there was no action taken until far too late. Whatever the reason for the lethargy, the buck stops with Biden for that.

The New Zealand government did not even discuss assistance to NZ's allies until after the day after the Taliban had taken Bamiyan province. By then it would have been impossible to travel from Bamiyan to Kabul. They rescued some that had assisted in Kabul, but that's even worse than Biden's effort.

Seen lots of discussion about the Lt Colonel. Absolute disgrace what was done to him, Speaking out on a matter of principal and putting your career on the line is exactly the type of Virtue extolled by the USMC. Someone should recite the Boot Camp initial Speech by the DIs to the USMC senior Staff.

There's certainly an issue with Top Brass in the US at the moment - consider the Woke recruiting ad that they released recently. That Rot is coming from proximity to Washington, not the other way around.

However I cannot envisage a scenario where any semi-competent General said to Biden 'Nah, it's all good, let's pull the troops out first and not worry about the Equipment'.

And as above to Sugi - I don't buy that no General didn't want to notify their Allies.

[george formby]

I suspect every warlord in certain parts of the world who were scarred that Trump might drone strike them or drop a MOAB on them now doesn't have to worry about US Military intervention.

Lets hope you're wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uclear-reactor

[pritch]

However I cannot envisage a scenario where any semi-competent General said to Biden 'Nah, it's all good, let's pull the troops out first and not worry about the Equipment'.

A certain lack of understanding there. For twenty years equipment had been shipped to Afghanistan, it would have taken years to ship it back. That was never an option, except in Trump's disordered mind.

The sheer magnitude of US ordinance depots is mind boggling. I have only ever seen one, seventeen miles long by twelve miles wide, full of densely packed equipment. It impressed the Hell outa me at the time, still does.

[Grumph]

A certain lack of understanding there. For twenty years equipment had been shipped to Afghanistan, it would have taken years to ship it back. That was never an option, except in Trump's disordered mind.

The sheer magnitude of US ordinance depots is mind boggling. I have only ever seen one, seventeen miles long by twelve miles wide, full of densely packed equipment. It impressed the Hell outa me at the time, still does.

Simply a reflection of the amount of money put into the military/industrial complex. Senators have for generations grown fat on the payoff from that.

[husaberg]

Only the truly deluded could come up with something like that. OK, Biden fucked up the withdrawal from Afghanistan. The whole deal was already fucked up by Trump's surrender to the Taliban, but Biden bears responsibility for failing to get their Afghan allies out. He shares that with the NZ Government and others who also failed theirs.

Overnight our time Biden flew to be at the arrival home of the casualties from Kabul, he then visited the site of the hurricane. To my knowledge he didn't insult any grieving widows or parents and I've yet to see a picture of him throwing paper towels at a crowd. Almost as if he's a normal person and not a fucking idiot like Trump.

That post of TLRD was he really trying to say should not be posting about trump in a trump thread? Then tries to turn this to a But Biden to give trump another free pass while he ....buggers the world up the ass.....
No wonder so many have him on ignore.
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[TheDemonLord]

A certain lack of understanding there. For twenty years equipment had been shipped to Afghanistan, it would have taken years to ship it back. That was never an option, except in Trump's disordered mind.

Years? Disagree. Days? I agree, lots to take out. Weeks? At an absolute push. Months? more likely - but that's within a reasonable time frame. But let's assume they can't remove it, then you do what Trump said: Bomb it to hell (aka sabotage it so it can't be used).

[TheDemonLord]

That post of TLRD was he really trying to say should not be posting about trump in a trump thread? Then tries to turn this to a But Biden.....
No wonder so many have him on ignore.

Oh, Don't mind me - I'm just reveling in how the worst accusations, taken on face value of the claimant, about Trump - by the likes of yourself - pale in comparison to the absolute Cluster-fuck that has been Afghanistan.

'Worst President Ever'

Biden: Hold my - y'know - the thing!

[TheDemonLord]

Lets hope you're wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uclear-reactor

If true - let's all say it together kids:

"Didn't happen under Trump"

[pritch]

Years? Disagree. Days? I agree, lots to take out. Weeks? At an absolute push. Months? more likely - but that's within a reasonable time frame. But let's assume they can't remove it, then you do what Trump said: Bomb it to hell (aka sabotage it so it can't be used).

Never having seen anything of the type, nor having any concept of the mind boggling size, it's easy to have such boundless misplaced confidence. The Yanks have no record of destroying much of their hardware, it's normally just left behind.

Just like they handed everything to the Russians when Trump crawled out of Syria abandoning the Kurds.

Trump would've done the same again, he only came up with the bombing idea in the last week or so. He didn't say anything about that previously, he was too busy releasing Taliban from Pakistani prisons so they could overrun the country.

[sugilite:Me]

Of course, as is your want and right - I don't, just like I don't hold Boris responsible or Jacinda responsible for any deaths caused by Covid.

I don't hold Barney the dinosaur responsible for covid deaths. Oddly that does not exonerate Trump from killing thousands - who knew? Pity the poor dead Trump supporter who believed their dear leader would never put his agenda before protecting the American people. They died for his lies that ultimately failed - as he lost the election he was willing to kill thousands over anyways.

[Laava]

Simply a reflection of the amount of money put into the military/industrial complex. Senators have for generations grown fat on the payoff from that.

It certainly goes a long way to explaining why the US is the at the top of the table proportionately for "foreign aid"