Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[FJRider]

... It's the claims of Structural Racism that is the Marxist Lie. In another thread I pointed out that one of the claims that the Legal System was a tool of White Supremacy was absurd, given that English Common Law predated the existence of 'Black People' in England by about 250 years.

So ... you can ONLY be racist against BLACK people ... ???


Does "English Common Law" predate the Irish/Scottish/Welsh existence in this period ... ??


Racism isn't dependent on skin colour. And many a battle was fought (in HATRED) between the English and the other three.



And ... a few groups of people on the other side of the channel as well.


Racial hatred would have been around in the times of the Roman presence in the area.

[TheDemonLord]

Publishing nonsense proves nothing.

Oh, I quite agree....

Except you believe the nonsense, so....

Only an idiot, or a racist, would suggest structural racism doesn't exist in the US. Just as there are doctors who don't believe in vaccines, there are likely academics who blame everything on Marxism. After all, "One in five of us is mad."

Anyhoo, I'm not wasting any more time on idiocy.

Has there been structural Racism? Sure - Segregation would be a prime example (also a bonus point - the first Essay in this argues against Integration...)

But is there Structural Racism now? That is something that is yet to be proven, people point to unequal outcomes, but unequal outcomes are the result of a Free Society. Given that Asians and Indians are leading the way, it seems to suggest that the biggest determining factor is Cultural - rather than Structural.

[TheDemonLord]

So ... you can ONLY be racist against BLACK people ... ???

No shit, that's essentially what the CRT/Intersectional types believe. Because they've redefined Racism to include Power Structures and therefore you can't be racist towards White People.

Does "English Common Law" predate the Irish/Scottish/Welsh existence in this period ... ??

Racism isn't dependent on skin colour. And many a battle was fought (in HATRED) between the English and the other three.

The problem here is when the Racism is phrased as 'White Supremacy' - And whilst we can all agree it's okay to hate the Gingers, in terms of Colour palette, the English, Welsh, Irish and Scots are all whitest of the white.

And ... a few groups of people on the other side of the channel as well.

Good point, it's okay to hate the French/Germans and anything Continental as well... (afterall - Marx, Engels, Gramsci, Foucault, Derrida...)

Racial hatred would have been around in the times of the Roman presence in the area.

I can't wait for my reparations from Italy...

But again the problem is with the modern framing of Race to do with Skin Colour - and given that when most of the systems were developed (Modern Parliamentary Democracy, Common Law, Policing, Public Education - all English creations) there either was no people other than those who were white or such miniscule numbers that it would have in no way influenced the conceptualization of those systems.

In fact, there's a lovely bit of Archival Footage that I think really helps exemplify this:



It's a training video, for WW2 American Soldiers on how to behave in the UK - and at around the 25 Minute Mark, it touches on Race Relations (again, this is from a 1940s American Perspective - before the Civil Rights movement) - The American gives the American view (which is very much 'of its time' and difficult to watch), but it then points out how the English perceive and interact with Race (in so much as we don't).

[FJRider]

No shit, that's essentially what the CRT/Intersectional types believe. Because they've redefined Racism to include Power Structures and therefore you can't be racist towards White People.

So ... Racism is about everything EXCEPT skin colour .. ???

I just thought it was about a dislike of someones Race.

The problem here is when the Racism is phrased as 'White Supremacy' - And whilst we can all agree it's okay to hate the Gingers, in terms of Colour palette, the English, Welsh, Irish and Scots are all whitest of the white.

I like used to like a ginger now and then. I'm married now ... so that's off the table ...

The Irish, welsh and scots were ok ... if you put something in their mouth to stop them talking ...

As for the pom's ... I found they manage to talk even WITH their mouth full.

Good point, it's okay to hate the French/Germans and anything Continental as well... (afterall - Marx, Engels, Gramsci, Foucault, Derrida...)

French girls ...

I can't wait for my reparations from Italy...

Good luck with that ...

But again the problem is with the modern framing of Race to do with Skin Colour - and given that when most of the systems were developed (Modern Parliamentary Democracy, Common Law, Policing, Public Education - all English creations) there either was no people other than those who were white or such miniscule numbers that it would have in no way influenced the conceptualization of those systems.

So ... the slave trade could be the base cause for the spread of racism.

In fact, there's a lovely bit of Archival Footage that I think really helps exemplify this:

I'm ex Army. I've seen similar movies ... I didn't watch your one though.

[TheDemonLord]

So ... Racism is about everything EXCEPT skin colour .. ???

I just thought it was about a dislike of someones Race.

That's what I thought too, in fact, that's what everyone who hasn't been indoctrinated with the Intersectional viewpoint thinks that...

But since the redefinition of Racism to include Power/Privilege...

But don't worry, Pritch will be along in a minute to say that CRT isn't real and it doesn't mean what they say it means...

So ... the slave trade could be the base cause for the spread of racism.

In a strictly American Context, Maybe. In a wider Context - absolutely not.

I'm ex Army. I've seen similar movies ... I didn't watch your one though.

As is your want - I feel it paints a very clear picture of what actual racists (or if we are being charitable 'People of their time') viewed the English non-view on Race.

[FJRider]

That's what I thought too, in fact, that's what everyone who hasn't been indoctrinated with the Intersectional viewpoint thinks that...

So ... it's Not racism if one person hates another person because they are black (or white).

But it is racism if you hate another person because they are black (or white) ... and they have more power than you do ... ?

In a strictly American Context, Maybe. In a wider Context - absolutely not.

Not ALL slaves were from Africa.

Not ALL African slaves went to (what is now) America.

At the end of slavery ... the freedom to travel was also given. From all points where slavery was the norm. And those that had the chance to do so ... usually did.

Only the ignorant believe slavery was only in (what is now) America.

As is your want - I feel it paints a very clear picture of what actual racists (or if we are being charitable 'People of their time') viewed the English non-view on Race.

I have been a number of places where a whiteskin was very much NOT the local norm. How you talk to people ... how you treat them ... can not only make life easier for yourself ... but your very survival may depend on it.

I cannot claim to have changed a countries public opinion of whiteskins ... but I did change the perception of whiteskins ... that was held by a few with a brown skin. And I am happy with that.

However ... MY opinion of fat useless Islamophobic pricks will not change.

[FJRider]

... Segregation would be a prime example (also a bonus point - the first Essay in this argues against Integration...)

Would Living in the suburb of Otara ... be an example of Segregation or Integration ... ???

But is there Structural Racism now? That is something that is yet to be proven, people point to unequal outcomes, but unequal outcomes are the result of a Free Society. Given that Asians and Indians are leading the way, it seems to suggest that the biggest determining factor is Cultural - rather than Structural.[/QUOTE]

There is no “official” definition of structural racism ... nor is there of the similar concept of systemic and institutional racism ... although many definitions have been given.

As such ... as with the various "Definitions" of what is racist ... it is purely dependent on whom is giving the definition.

Usually ... by one that sees themselves as being as being at a political or personal disadvantage. A disadvantage "Obviously" due to their own skin color or race.

[TheDemonLord]

So ... it's Not racism if one person hates another person because they are black (or white).

But it is racism if you hate another person because they are black (or white) ... and they have more power than you do ... ?

Welcome to the Wacky World of Intersectionality, where when words are inconvenient, new definitions are created to suit their needs.

Not ALL slaves were from Africa.

Not ALL African slaves went to (what is now) America.

At the end of slavery ... the freedom to travel was also given. From all points where slavery was the norm. And those that had the chance to do so ... usually did.

Only the ignorant believe slavery was only in (what is now) America.

Sure, but that was never my claim - what makes the US a particularly interesting case study is how it rose to be a Global Super power and also how it went through a period of Civil Rights issues within recent memory.

But I stand by my earlier claim - Racism is/was a Human Universal, you can't blame Slavery for spreading Racism around the world.

Would Living in the suburb of Otara ... be an example of Segregation or Integration ... ???

Is it by choice or by Government Fiat?

There is no “official” definition of structural racism ... nor is there of the similar concept of systemic and institutional racism ... although many definitions have been given.

See above about the Intersectional/CRT types changing Definitions to words (especially ones they created) when it suits their need....

As such ... as with the various "Definitions" of what is racist ... it is purely dependent on whom is giving the definition.

Usually ... by one that sees themselves as being as being at a political or personal disadvantage. A disadvantage "Obviously" due to their own skin color or race.

See, I believe there is an objective definition of Racism: Treating people different, based on their Race. It's simple, concise and it covers everything.

The problem for the Intersectional types is that if you want to push, oh - I dunno, a Diversity Quota, that requires you to treat people based on their race, so a new definition is required where they can excuse themselves.

[FJRider]

Welcome to the Wacky World of Intersectionality, where when words are inconvenient, new definitions are created to suit their needs.

And those with the greater "Inconvenience" ... creating them. That can work both ways ... but it depends on ... to which point of view it is convenient. If it's the "Other" side ... it must be wrong.

... But I stand by my earlier claim - Racism is/was a Human Universal, you can't blame Slavery for spreading Racism around the world.

Racism is an unfair bias against another race. Purely based on on perceptions of that race ... usually instilled in a person by another family member. Or an attitude taught by the people you associate with.

Is it by choice or by Government Fiat?

It is by choice they leave it as soon as they possibly can. And their greatest claim of achievement is being able to leave the place.

See above about the Intersectional/CRT types changing Definitions to words (especially ones they created) when it suits their need....

And who gives the power to those "Made Up" words .. ?? those speaking or listening ... ??

See, I believe there is an objective definition of Racism: Treating people different, based on their Race. It's simple, concise and it covers everything.

It doesn't cover "Everything" ... the demand to be given more because they have less ... and making it a race issue when simple effort (read work) by themselves will help them achieve it.

The problem for the Intersectional types is that if you want to push, oh - I dunno, a Diversity Quota, that requires you to treat people based on their race, so a new definition is required where they can excuse themselves.

Sometimes people just need to work for what they want. There's no quota on that.

[TheDemonLord]

And those with the greater "Inconvenience" ... creating them. That can work both ways ... but it depends on ... to which point of view it is convenient. If it's the "Other" side ... it must be wrong.

Based on below, I'm fairly certain which definition you agree with, and it's not the Intersectional one...

Racism is an unfair bias against another race. Purely based on on perceptions of that race ... usually instilled in a person by another family member. Or an attitude taught by the people you associate with.

I have two issues with this statement - firstly the phrase 'Unfair', I don't think it's intentional per-se, but even if there was a fair Bias (let's go with Dutch people tend to be tall), treating them differently based purely on their heritage would still be wrong.

Secondly - there's some very strong evidence to suggest that In-group/Out-group preference is an Evolutionary Hang over, so to say it's 'Instilled', I don't agree entirely with that

It is by choice they leave it as soon as they possibly can. And their greatest claim of achievement is being able to leave the place.

Then that's the result of a Free society, where people have choices to make.

No problem with that.

And who gives the power to those "Made Up" words .. ?? those speaking or listening ... ??

It's a Chain: It starts in the Universities, then gets taught to Students, who go out into the real world and disseminate it, which then reinforces the claims by the Universities, who teach it to more students.

And eventually, it will come for something you enjoy....

It doesn't cover "Everything" ... the demand to be given more because they have less ... and making it a race issue when simple effort (read work) by themselves will help them achieve it.

Sometimes people just need to work for what they want. There's no quota on that.

Sounds like you're advocating for a Meritocracy... Welcome to the Freedom Club, unfortunately - that means that in the framing of Intersectionality, you are just as much a White Supremecist as you think I'm an Islamaphobe.

[sugilite:Me]

It's the claims of Structural Racism that is the Marxist Lie. In another thread I pointed out that one of the claims that the Legal System was a tool of White Supremacy was absurd, given that English Common Law predated the existence of 'Black People' in England by about 250 years.

We could look even further - the highest performing racial group of People in the US aren't White - Indian and Asians are at the top of the ladder in terms of average salary, academic achievement etc.

ahhh, it comes back to the people implementing the system. Thousands upon thousands of black people are put into prison and denied freedoms because of white judges running roughshod over the "system".

And in your white privileged World, being able to point at the career success of Asians somehow overlooking the fact they often get verbally attacked, assaulted and spat upon on their daily commute to work. Your smugness in your points just highlights how systemic racism is so baked into society you are simply blind to the fact you are a large part of the problem. Talk about implementing a good ole "white-wash" over racism Back to digging sand out your ears emu.

[TheDemonLord]

ahhh, it comes back to the people implementing the system. Thousands upon thousands of black people are put into prison and denied freedoms because of white judges running roughshod over the "system".

Is that a System issue or a problem with individual Judges?

And here's the Rub - if you can show me a Judge who has routinely shown bias against Defendants of a Certain Ethnicity, I'll be more than happy to join in the calls for them to Resign.

At this point though, If I were to be charitable in the calls of 'Systemic issues' - I'd say that Prosecuting DAs with aspirations of a Political Career would be my first call for a review.

And in your white privileged World, being able to point at the career success of Asians somehow overlooking the fact they often get verbally attacked, assaulted and spat upon on their daily commute to work.

By Whom?

Is it Hood Wearing White Supremecists?
Or is it people of a somewhat darker disposition?

The rooftop Koreans weren't shooting at White People...

Your smugness in your points just highlights how systemic racism is so baked into society you are simply blind to the fact you are a large part of the problem. Talk about implementing a good ole "white-wash" over racism Back to digging sand out your ears emu.

Okay then, since we are talking about White Privilege and Systemic Racism - let's quote some examples from Peggy Macintosh who came up with it:

I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented

I guess she never heard of Rap, Hip Hop, RnB, Soul, Jazz, Gospel, Reggae etc. There's obviously just Classical Music, Rock and Metal \m/ (we don't talk about Folk or Country...)

I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

That's totally absurd - Every Parent has that ability, and this nothing to do with race.

If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.

Literally nothing to do with Race, everything to do with Economics.

I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race

If anyone can show me School Materials that say black people don't exist, I'll grant this one, but if not...

I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race

You mean that when you break the Meritocratic principle, people are suspicious that you didn't get there on Merit?!? Shock! Horror! It's almost like Hiring Quotas create the problem...

But let's pick a few more, that specifically deal with Race:

I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

Is this a Racial privilege or is it a Majority privilege? Does this mean that in (say) Saudi Arabia, White Privilege (by the definition of the essay) doesn't exist?

When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

History of a country is a thing, there are plenty of countries that don't have White People who made it what they are...

I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

I dunno, I attribute bad morals to Hipsters who were second hand clothes all the time - and they are Whiter than White.... And let's at this point raise 'Rednecks' and 'Trailer Trash', do these criticisms not also apply to them, and again - they are white....

If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.

Probably will be singled out because you are a Conservative and the IRS has become politicized... But jokes aside - Cops tend to pull people over because they are looking for signs that someone might be doing something illegal. I don't like Profiling - but I can assure you, when I was a Young Man, driving a Boy Racer car, I got pulled over a lot more than when I grew up and got a family vehicle - this is not to do with Race.

I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

Is this a Racial issue or a Majority Issue? And I know from Peggy's other writings she does feel this when she's been around Men all day, which shows it's not a Race issue.

Now, you can read the full thing here: https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-...pics/whiteness and there used to be a little infographic, that has mysteriously disappeared, but thankfully - I remember and the Internet doesn't forget.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec90PqvX...png&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec90PpjW...png&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec90PoOX...png&name=large

So, let's flick through some of them, shall we?

- Self Reliance
- Independance and Autonomu
- Emphasis on the Scientific Method
- Protestant Work Ethic
- Follow rigid Time Schedules
- Delayed Gratification

I could go on - but here's the question - how many of those have to do with Race?

Zero.

And this is where and why I raised Asians and Indians - because what they are attributing to 'Whiteness', are a set of ideals and principles that anyone and any culture can adhere to, and be successful.

Hell, those evil White Supremecist Men even took the time to write down 'Hey, here's what we did to be successful - so that maybe you can too!' and they even made those publicly available! Those Bastards! it's almost like they want everyone to be successful!

There are plenty of Famous Black people who got to where they were, by following those ideals. If my memory serves, the first African American Senators and representatives were all Republicans - which again shows - it's not the colour of your Skin.

This is where the Rubber finally hits the Road - see, if I replace 'Race' with 'Culture' then suddenly, a lot of those start to make a whoooooooooole lot of sense. It also explains why Japanese Culture (which has a very high emphasis on the Individual and a Work Ethic that makes Protestants look like lazy gobshites) is beating ol' whitey in America. Same with Indians.

That also happens to be why it's framed as a Racial issue - see, if it's Cultural, it can be criticized and the individual has self-determination to make better choices, whereas if you frame it Racial, then you get a free pass.

[R650R]

ahhh, it comes back to the people implementing the system. Thousands upon thousands of black people are put into prison and denied freedoms because of white judges running roughshod over the "system".

And in your white privileged World, being able to point at the career success of Asians somehow overlooking the fact they often get verbally attacked, assaulted and spat upon on their daily commute to work. Your smugness in your points just highlights how systemic racism is so baked into society you are simply blind to the fact you are a large part of the problem. Talk about implementing a good ole "white-wash" over racism Back to digging sand out your ears emu.

Absolute rubbish. Court judgements would have to be one of the most super accurate public records available. If what you are saying is anything close to true it would be EASILY provable and a substantial amount of judges would be sanctioned.
Don’t know what goes on in your new neighbourhoid but in mine asians walk about freely and relaxed.
White privileged is a myth, there are plenty of white “trailer trash” types that have failed in life through poor education, bad choices or substances abuse but they don’t get to blame their choices on anyone else.

[sugilite:Me]

Absolute rubbish. Court judgements would have to be one of the most super accurate public records available. If what you are saying is anything close to true it would be EASILY provable and a substantial amount of judges would be sanctioned.
Don’t know what goes on in your new neighbourhoid but in mine asians walk about freely and relaxed.
White privileged is a myth, there are plenty of white “trailer trash” types that have failed in life through poor education, bad choices or substances abuse but they don’t get to blame their choices on anyone else.

Look at the title of the thread, it gives a hint as to the country im referring to. Hint, it is not my neighbourhood

TDL, your trolling is much more obvious than your usual stealthy work. Getting twitchy?

[TheDemonLord]

TDL, your trolling is much more obvious than your usual stealthy work. Getting twitchy?

I mean, if you want me to actually Troll, more than happy to - and appreciate that it's difficult to tell the difference because Intersectionality/CRT is actually that Batshit crazy, but seriously - those are all legit examples from people who spearheaded the movement.