JOHN BAKER INSURANCE -how good are they?

[jrandom]

sell the Trading arm but don't sell the limited liability shell

That's an interesting concept. How does that work?

If not the directors of the 'limited liability shell', then who has access to the company's bank accounts, ability to enter into contracts on the company's behalf and responsibility to fulfill them, et cetera?

Legally speaking, what is a company apart from its 'limited liability shell' and the shareholders and directors thereof?

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

Of course, I'm no corporate lawyer, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I have no clue.

[k1w160]

Gidday,

I had the opportunity to test Swann Insurance's claim proceedure following a 'i never saw you' incident as a 4x4 pulled out in front of me on Easter Saturday this year.

Some factors:

1. I am 48
2. Have not claimed on a bike accident in 28 years (yes I said 28)
3. I was 100% in the right
4. A full written account, police report incident numbers and contact details and photo's of the accident site were supplied by myself.

Swanns operations and proceedures were excellent, communication was good, and I am very happy with the out come.

All in all, from notification of the accident to settlement took 6 weeks which is not an excessive ammount of time in my opinion.

I'm happy to stay with Swann and will do so, but I expect, with a comprehensive accident report being supplied to the other insurance companies mentioned, a similar outcome would have been reached.

I have found all insurance companies are good to deal with BUT make sure you have ALL the facts, witness reports etc. It may seem like a lot of trouble to go to, but the difference between making the effort and not doing it could have been settlement of the claim.

One last point- if you've screwed up and stacked the bike while doing a bit of back road racing , or pushing your luck in traffic, then don't be too surprised if an insurance company starts to back off - their not in the business of handing out lollies. In that situation, honesty is the best policy when dealing with them, and if they don't want to know, well, take it on the chin and learn from it.

We all take a risk everytime we get on the bike, thats part of the fasination with riding but if you want to really find out what your bike (and you) are capable of, then have a go at a Kiwi Biker track day - that's what they are there for.

Stay safe out there.

Cheers

[Oscar]

That's an interesting concept. How does that work?

If not the directors of the 'limited liability shell', then who has access to the company's bank accounts, ability to enter into contracts on the company's behalf and responsibility to fulfill them, et cetera?

Legally speaking, what is a company apart from its 'limited liability shell' and the shareholders and directors thereof?

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

Of course, I'm no corporate lawyer, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I have no clue.

I think you'll find that Aon bought JBI's book of clients, not the company.
I expect that the company you're dealing with is AON NZ Limited trading as JBI or somesuch.

[Big Dave]

Worth remembering that Insurance 'can' be void if your licence is not correct or the vehicle is out of warrant or its licence expired.

It only works if all the boxes are ticked.

[Oscar]

Worth remembering that Insurance 'can' be void if your licence is not correct or the vehicle is out of warrant or its licence expired.

It only works if all the boxes are ticked.

Only if the lack of licence or warrant or whatever contributed directly to the claim. The various Insurance Law Reform Acts are your friends...

I see the Ubermoderators are at it again, our discussion vis-a-vis curmudgeons committed to the void...

[Big Dave]

rather

Only if the lack of licence or warrant or whatever contributed directly to the claim. The various Insurance Law Reform Acts are your friends...

I see the Ubermoderators are at it again, our discussion vis-a-vis curmudgeons committed to the void...

Twas rather witty too.

In Aus it's the death of a claim.

[Ixion]

Gidday,

..

One last point- if you've screwed up and stacked the bike while doing a bit of back road racing , or pushing your luck in traffic, then don't be too surprised if an insurance company starts to back off - their not in the business of handing out lollies. In that situation, honesty is the best policy when dealing with them, and if they don't want to know, well, take it on the chin and learn from it.

..

Cheers

SO what is the point of having insurance in the first place, then?

[Cr1MiNaL]

Guys, I know this is an insurance thread and I don't mean to diverge off topic but let me shed some light on the matter. A company is a separate legal entity. Its directors are separate to the company legally speaking. So if I own company A and own 50% shares in another company B, that does not mean I own company B or even that company A and B are "legally speaking" related to one another; unless we complicate things with GSA's or guarantees or the like (lets not go there). It does however make me a shareholder of company B.

Company Number 106154
Company JOHN BAKER INSURANCE BROKERS LIMITED

Total Number of shares 60,000

Number of Shares 30,001
Shareholder(s) 1265260 - FOREFRONT TRUSTEE COMPANY LIMITED Level 11, Shortland Tower One, 51-53 Shortland Street, Auckland
BAKER, John Francis , Auckland

There are many aspects to legally owning a company, just looking at the companies office is sometimes quite misleading. From the info above John is a trustee of the forefront trustee company who own JBI brokers Ltd. Besides any / all of the listed trustees could be 'professional' which would mean they have no financial interests in the company and the structure of the company could be purely from a tax perspective.

Lets keep this discussion out of this thread simply because there is a lot more to the structure of a company, especially non-retail companies like this one, and explanation would baffle most people.

I work with the National Bank of New Zealand and if someone told me that The ANZ Group Australia do not own The National Bank or that company 'xxx' owns us I would think he is a very silly person indeed. So without understanding the structure of a company one cannot debate intelligently.

Jetboy seems like a good guy (broker) and seems trustworthy though I can only really judge him when it comes down to claim time. Thank you all for your comments so far. If anyone has anything constructive to add please go ahead. Bare in mind to keep personal agendas and off topic debates out of this particular thread. Intelligent debate is however going to benefit us all for many years to come.

Ta.

[k1w160]

SO what is the point of having insurance in the first place, then?

I guess if your looking for someone to bail you out no matter what, then there is probably no point in insurance.

An insurance policy is a contract between the insured and the insurer, and as such there are conditions on both sides that must be met for that contract to be valid when needed. This is why your insurance policy has so many pages of terms and conditions.

It's good to know that a lack of warrant or license would not nessercarily void your claim as were all guilty of letting it slip...or having to ride to VINZ the day after the warrant expired.

Cheers

[Ixion]

I guess if your looking for someone to bail you out no matter what, then there is probably no point in insurance.

An insurance policy is a contract between the insured and the insurer, and as such there are conditions on both sides that must be met for that contract to be valid when needed. This is why your insurance policy has so many pages of terms and conditions.

It's good to know that a lack of warrant or license would not nessercarily void your claim as were all guilty of letting it slip...or having to ride to VINZ the day after the warrant expired.

Cheers

All of which impose limitations and conditions on you, the insured. None of which impose any conditions whatsoever on the insurer. The legal precept of uberissime fides goes both ways- complete good faith on BOTH parties. So, when applied by insurance companies, why does it work only ONE way? You must divulge all your history, of accidents , claims, tickets etc. But the insurance company divulges NOTHING. Why are they not required to specify if they have recently turned down a claim? had a qualified auditors report?

Why, when asked these questions do insurance companys react with horror?

So , what you are sayoing, is that insurers will insure you for damage incurred, so long as you NEVER make a mistake? Never get it wrong? If you do, tough shit. Well, if I don't get it wrong, why would I NEED insurance ?

[k1w160]

So , what you are sayoing, is that insurers will insure you for damage incurred, so long as you NEVER make a mistake? Never get it wrong? If you do, tough shit. Well, if I don't get it wrong, why would I NEED insurance ?

No, that's not what I mean, if your turned down for an insurance claim, they have to have a clear legal reason to do so, and if you disagree with their decision then there will be a process available to disbute this.

However, if you are turned down for a claim and you haven't got a leg to stand on, then learn from the situation.

The point of my original post on this subject is that my experience is that I have found them fair and reasonable to deal with, and this experience has also applied to travel and household insurance.

[Edbear]

... Bare in mind ... Intelligent debate ...

Interesting Fruedian slip, there...

[jrandom]

From the info above John is a trustee of the forefront trustee company who own JBI brokers Ltd.

Incorrect. I thought you were supposed to learn about company law when you did a BBS?

I looked up the trustee company; its shareholders and directors are, as you would expect from its registered address, solicitors.

explanation would baffle most people

Nonsense. It's straightforward. Person A owns Company B, and Persons C and D have been appointed as directors to run it.

That's why we have a Companies Office, so that anyone can find that stuff out. Transparency and accountability.

I work with the National Bank of New Zealand and if someone told me that The ANZ Group Australia do not own The National Bank...

But they wouldn't tell you that.

The Companies Office website clearly states that ANZ National Bank Limited is owned by ANZ Holdings (New Zealand) Limited, which is owned by ANZ Funds Pty Limited and Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited, both with registered offices in Melbourne.

This shit is not rocket science. Don't hand-wave it away.

jetboy said that JBI and Star were 'not affiliated', but both companies are owned and run by the same guy. That means, in simple common-sense terms, that they are affiliated. If AON has an interest in Star, I'd like to know how.

I have no problem with Tim, he's a good cunt, but he made an incorrect statement and got called on it. That's all there is to it.

[Grahameeboy]

I think you'll find that Aon bought JBI's book of clients, not the company.
I expect that the company you're dealing with is AON NZ Limited trading as JBI or somesuch.

Correct Sir although I am pretty certain their Prestige Vehicle side is not with Aon

[Star Insurance]

John Baker as a person owns multiple companies. Just like some of you who own multiple bikes

He has sold his interest in John Baker Insurance to Aon Risk Services NZ Ltd. This was sold as at 1 January 2007. (Just like you selling one bike). So what you know as John Baker Insurance is formally Aon Risk Services Ltd T/A John Baker Insurance. (John Baker Insurance Brokers Ltd is the original company is maintained for operational and liability purposes)

He maintains his ownership in Star Underwriting Agents Ltd, who trade as Star Insurance.

If you require further clarification, please contact: Nicholas Baker, Ph: 09 250 6004.