Singh family complaining about the police

[98tls]

Exactly my point. the reason they didn't (well, one reason anyway), was that they called the police (natural enough). And the 111 then put them through to the ambulance people (also natural enough). And the ambulance people said "stay there: an ambo will there in minutes " (normally true). So, they did. fair enough, if the ambulance arrival time had been "normal" (normally, they are on site bloody fast - only the fire brigade are faster), that would have been the right decision. They didn't know the ambulance was going to fortify up round the corner (and yes, I know that decision was the cops, not the ambos)

And when the ambo didn't front they kept ringing back. And got told "No, stay, it will only be another minute or so". Rinse, lather , repeat.

With ya,out of interest i would love to see a poll on such circumstances to see what others would have done.Personally i have no doubts in my own mind that given the circumstances (if they are what ive read on here) then calling the cops/ambos would have taken a back seat to getting the injured party to a hospital.As you say they had been told it wasnt far away but for me anyway after a few minutes of waiting and it not turning up id be out of there.

[enigma51]

Jrandom for new hitcher!

[Grahameeboy]

What i still dont get is if has been stated the guy was walking around after being shot and they were so certain the shooter had left why didnt they put him in a car and get him to hospital themselves,i dont know Auckland ie distances to the hospital but i think under such circumstances that would have been the first thing i would have done,Why piss about ringing anyone why not just get on with it?

I agree.....like that women who died due to having the power cut off....take responsibility...

No one was at fault...just sad circumstances...

[Indoo]

I Their job is to arrest people and lock them up, or give them tickets. Helping people doesn't come into it.

Yep thats right Ixion, tell me (and you clearly know the answer) how much time Police spend attending jobs which have an expectation of an arrest as opposed to simply helping someone with a problem?

I don't think I've ever met someone who quite as knowledgeable as you Ixion, I mean you seem to know absolutely everything and what should be done in every situation. It must be amazing being able to have such incredible insight from the comfort of your armchair. You must have had many careers during your extended life including obviously haven risen to high levels in both the Police and ambulance service to have given you such knowledge about what*should* be done. You even appear to have been a mind reader at some point given that you can even tell what a Police officer thought of Mr Singhs predicament.

Its kinda funny though that people like yourself who know know so much and love telling people what *should* have been done never seem to be present when something actually needs to be done.

Strange that.

[MIXONE]

I feel for the family no person from nz or not should have to deal with a family member being killed but

Bitching about the fact that the cops took 25 min to get them?
Go to india or where ever you from and lets see how quickly the cops get to you and actually give a shit if you get shot or not.

They are pissed off with cops when its not even something the cops did lets get pissed off with the people that shot your son father or husband and not get your turbans in twist because the cops did not show up in time.

I dont like the cops tactics with speeding etc but if there is one thing NZ cops can be proud off is the fact that they always put 100% into solving serous crime and Im confident that the assholes that is responsible will get caught and punished but again not that cops fault if they only get 3 months or similiar in jail thats the pc policy's we have.

PS Rant over and yes i cant spell im not a born kiwi oooo wait neither can most so im sweeeeeeet

Out of this whole thread this is the statement that pisses me off the most.What the fuck has it got to do with being an Indian?Are you going to fuck off back to Safaland anytime soon to see if things are better there?You no doubt came to NZ for a safer environment to bring up your family.Is it because they are not white?We have enough racial problems here without importing rascists to increase them.

[imdying]

If it is police policy to be as sure as they can that it's safe to enter an area that a gunman might be in, it seems reasonable that that policy has come about for a reason.

It is definitely sad that somebody died, but if the alternate is a dead policeman, I don't see a winner in that situation. Yes, people were on the phone saying it was safe to come in, and that does seem a little off, but if those people are wrong, more people could just have well died. It's a shame this man didn't have a gun of his own, and wasn't able to shoot and kill all three of these men.

Really, there's only one person to blame here, and that's the gunman. Given we have video evidence, I can see no reason why he and his mates shouldn't be the next to die.

[scracha]

Go to india or where ever you from and lets see how quickly the cops get to you and actually give a shit if you get shot or not"

What relevance or help does the above comment make for the Singh family? If I got beaten up in a pub am I be expected to smile and thank my lucky stars that it didn't happen in Glasgow but instead the Gawdzone that is eNZed?

So the cops 'knew' the people they were talking to were inside the shop? - and that no gunman was anywhere near it?

So they weighed up the remote probability of multiple people taking the time to phone them and for some unfathomable reason telling them a pack of lies versus the more realistic probability that the gunman had indeed fucked off (funny that he didn't hang around afterwards) and there was a guy dying inside?

Well then they should have bolted on into the shop then eh.

I wonder why they didn't??

Sheer stupidity I reckon.

I'm sorry, but they've every right to be angry with the cops. If one of your family members had been shot and the cops have repeatedly been told it's safe to enter then you'd be a tad annoyed if the cops prevented medical treatment.


Did I miss anything?

[Patrick]

As far as I can see they just dithered about...there can only have been two scenarios:
1) Gunman still around. In which case, they knew damn well there were plenty of people in the vicinity of the shop so they should have been in there to protect them.

2) Gunman gone. In which case get in there and try to save the bloke's life...

I don't see any justification for the time spent doing nothing.

what about number 3... And the gunman was waiting in the carpark for the cops, so he could plug a few...

Regarding the original context of this thread... I agree with the family having a bitch. The pieces of shit were long gone and despite a family member being INSIDE the shop assuring the cops of this fact the cops refused to let the ambos in.

So do I... but I also see the need to be sure they weren't waiting to kill more.

The police knew the perps had long gone:....

The police did not enter because:

"Detective Inspector Jim Gallagher said police had to establish the gunman's whereabouts to ensure no one else's life was in danger.

They also had to wait for firearms to arrive so armed police could check the scene before letting anyone, including St John, into the store."

So, waiting for firearms to arrive was more important then the life of the father of three children.

Police screwed up again, and instead of admitting it and doing something to prevent it from happening again they say they did nothing wrong. It's just not good enough.

A good post...NOT!!!! The Police did not "know" they were gone, GALLAGHER was summing it up in one sentence. They had shot one compliant shopkeeper, what would they do to an unarmed cop?

The cops lives were more important to themselves and I have no problem with that.

As for an investigation, that takes time and resourses off the street. Let them do what they do best, and that is round these arseholes up and get them off the streets.

3 down today, including the actual gunman. Only two to go. Not bad. Or is that not good enough either????

FFS..........

[Patrick]

I'm sorry, but they've every right to be angry with the cops. If one of your family members had been shot and the cops have repeatedly been told it's safe to enter then you'd be a tad annoyed if the cops prevented medical treatment.


Did I miss anything?

Yep.... the possibility that the shooter was outside, waiting... for the cops to arrive so he could be a hero in the eyes of his sack of shit mates.

[tgb_novice]

Yep.... the possibility that the shooter was outside, waiting... for the cops to arrive so he could be a hero in the eyes of his sack of shit mates.

Yup! And the possibility that the next time there is an accident or drunk driver or dangerous driver all over the road and we call *555 , they are making sure that the above said driver will not cause any harm to the officers who may decide to watch this person at a distance and ascertain their safety

And as usual we start a new whining thread!! "I called *555 but no one attended" whats wrong with everything!!!

[scumdog]

Yup! And the possibility that the next time there is an accident or drunk driver or dangerous driver all over the road and we call *555 , they are making sure that the above said driver will not cause any harm to the officers who may decide to watch this person at a distance and ascertain their safety

Kinda comment I'd expect from a person with only 17 posts....

[tgb_novice]

Kinda comment I'd expect from a person with only 17 posts....

Not a kind of comment I would expect from a 7570 post person

[98tls]

Yup! And the possibility that the next time there is an accident or drunk driver or dangerous driver all over the road and we call *555 , they are making sure that the above said driver will not cause any harm to the officers who may decide to watch this person at a distance and ascertain their safety

And as usual we start a new whining thread!! "I called *555 but no one attended" whats wrong with everything!!!

Imagine if the ambos had run in there and been shot/killed,there would be a huge whinge and once again it would be directed at the cops.In situations like theres no winners etc its just a sad fact of what we have become.Its surely not going to get any better but only worse.Wait until the kids from the never been kicked up the arse for misbehaving generation move out of home and get down to business,cops have some serious shit to deal with now come thursday through to sunday, in a few years it will be diabolical and with more and more pc shit being introduced all the time i for one dont envy them.

[Ixion]

Yep.... the possibility that the shooter was outside, waiting... for the cops to arrive so he could be a hero in the eyes of his sack of shit mates.

But he wasn't, was he? Sure, any number of theoretical possibilities - it could all have been a terrorist sting operation with a team of RPG carrying mujahideen hidden in wait. But, not very likely, is it? . And the job of the Officer Commanding is to weigh up those probabilities and make the best call possible.

In such matters , the only thing that counts is the result. And in this case, the result was a 'fail'. The Cop-In-Charge called it wrong.

No hidden lurking gun men. Just a dying man, who did die, and might not have if the decision had been better

Easy to say in hindsight? Of course it is. Such things always are. In hindsight even I can say what would have been best. Much much harder to get it right on the spot. But that's what the Cop-In-Charge's job is. To make those calls, without hindsight, and get them right.

Hard. Very hard. But that's why Cops-In-Charge get paid very high salaries at the public expense. And I don't. And why they get a fancy uniform with lots of gold braid. And I don't .And why they are granted a plenitude of power. And I am not.

Because they are expected to have the experience, the judgement , the discretion, and the pure gut instinct to make those hard calls on the spot and get them right. If all the Cop-In-Charge is going to do is read the SOP, what's the point of him? A 19 year old recruit could do that just as well, and save the tax payer an awful lot of money.

In this case, Cop-In-Charge called it wrong. That's not a heinous crime. Everyone gets it wrong sometimes. I would be accepting if the C-I-C came out honestly and said "OK, in this case, we could have called it better. I'm sorry if that call contributed to Mr Singh's death , but on the basis of what I knew and what my instinct said , I felt it was the right call. In hindsight, maybe not". That I can respect. It's honest, and it's the sign of a man who will learn .

What I can't accept is that Mr Singh and his family/friends were lied to. The least people in that awful position should be able to expect is complete honesty by the police. They didn't get that. And in that. the police failed unforgiveably.

[spudchucka]

Because they are expected to have the experience, the judgement , the discretion, and the pure gut instinct to make those hard calls on the spot and get them right. If all the Cop-In-Charge is going to do is read the SOP, what's the point of him? A 19 year old recruit could do that just as well, and save the tax payer an awful lot of money.

Expected? But they have to log on to KB and see what Ixion says they should be doing before they make any decision.

Actually, the cop in charge's job is to make sure that the cops on the ground follow the SOPs and don't go rushing into an unsafe scene and get themselves killed. Staff safety is no less important than the safety of anyone else and it is experience that has taught the police how to respond safely to these incidents.

What I can't accept is that Mr Singh and his family/friends were lied to. The least people in that awful position should be able to expect is complete honesty by the police. They didn't get that. And in that. the police failed unforgiveably.

You're so sure they were lied to? When exactly did you get to listen to all the comms tapes and interview the staff and victims involved?