Singh family complaining about the police

[imdying]

For what it's worth, guys, the alcohol-analogy argument was Coldrider's, not mine. I was expanding on it because the valid point behind it was being ignored and/or misunderstood.

I hear you both, and it's an interesting point.

But they shot the poor bastard in cold blood

tell me how much time Police spend attending jobs which have an expectation of an arrest as opposed to simply helping someone with a problem?

I've listened to police comms a bit whilst waiting for my wife to shop or whatever (<3 jap import stereos ), they just go where they're asked, no expectations. IMHO of course.

Kinda comment I'd expect from a person with only 17 posts....

Heheheh, just the kind of comment I'd expect from a person with 7k+ posts


They shot him for no reason, they should not walk free. We have video of the, doing it, there is no question, the only acceptable conclusion now is that they have sacrificed their own lives, and must be put down (yes, exactly like one would put down an aggressive dog). There must be no mercy, these fuckers need to get the message... be a robbing scum bag if you must, that'll bite you in the arse sooner or later no doubt, but killing someone for pleasure ain't acceptable in this country.

[terbang]

They shot him for no reason, they should not walk free. We have video of the, doing it, there is no question, the only acceptable conclusion now is that they have sacrificed their own lives, and must be put down (yes, exactly like one would put down an aggressive dog). There must be no mercy, these fuckers need to get the message... be a robbing scum bag if you must, that'll bite you in the arse sooner or later no doubt, but killing someone for pleasure ain't acceptable in this country.

Never thought I´d be seen doing this, but I have to agree there. In my other country, Saudi Arabia, all three heads would be removed by now.

[RT527]

Bullet holes ? Well, in this case, tthere was one place that the cops could say with certainty was safe. The shop where the guy was dying. because they were talking to the people there. No gunman there . So the "safe place" could have been the shop!

tell me how you know that they weren't there, how could the people know in the shop or the police for that matter actually know for sure that the offenders accomplices had not re entered the shop in the hope of taking out the cops and or ambulance officers.

Im with speedie on this one...and as a firefighter that can ride in charge of a Fire appliance, I too could be and probably will be faced with a decision not to send a crew into a burning building to TRY to save someone when there is a chance that the crew may not come out too.....hard call but by the time we get to most burning houses occupants could already have been dead for up to 15 minutes.
I have been faced with the decision to not try and resuscitate an accident victim, as a member of the public while at work, as the car was too badly crumpled trapping the patient inside to the degree that no amount of cpr would have worked.
that and the broken neck and very grey looking tone of skin gave me a fairly good indication that he had SDS.....( sudden Death Syndrome).

Again the decisions i had to make that day and might possibly have to make in the future are often made in seconds and very stressful situations...ie people yelling at you crying out to you for help.

So yeah while its sad to see a Family loose their loved ones( Remember the grandfather passed away too after hearing the news) , I'm just glad there was only ONE family (including extended) loosing a loved one.

My respects to the police and the Ambulance officers that attended this terrible event.

RT527

[RT527]

I agree.....like that women who died due to having the power cut off....take responsibility...

No one was at fault...just sad circumstances...

Ah yes but what people have failed to take into account is , car prangs pole ,power goes off, women dies ......no warnings there, at least with the several warning notices they had the warnings.
And I don't believe no one was at fault.....the family need to take some form of responsibility.

Sorry for the thread jacking....mind you there is one thing here that Grahamboy says...Responsibility we as a community are responsible for todays crime etc , due to inaction to do something about our own/next door neighbors children breaking the law, usual thing, see kids taking fruit off trees for example ...most reaction is aww there just kids...so then tomorrow after they learn t that its ok to take things they steal something more substantial, slowly moving up the crime chain until its deemed the norm.
But what will we do about it, sadly nothing except say it aint my problem.....

[Indoo]

B
Hard. Very hard. But that's why Cops-In-Charge get paid very high salaries at the public expense. And I don't. And why they get a fancy uniform with lots of gold braid. And I don't .And why they are granted a plenitude of power. And I am not.

Oh man, you really do you think you know it all. Who do you think the cop in charge is in these situations? Howard Broad???.

Its usually a Senior Sergeant or failing that a Sergeant or even a Constable with some experience performing the Sergeants role. None of whom get paid much and all of whom do vast amounts of overtime for which they are paid nothing at all. And none of whom who get fancy uniforms with gold braid.

Because they are expected to have the experience, the judgement , the discretion, and the pure gut instinct to make those hard calls on the spot and get them right.

The only information he had/has is what he was told over the radio, a man has been shot, the offender was armed with a rifle, they have left the store, unknown where they are now. The might not be in the store but they could be in any of the streets you need to access to get to the store, either running on foot or exchanging their getaway car for another stolen car. What do you think a man who has just killed someone over a box of beer and is still armed with a loaded rifle is going to do to the unarmed cop he sees driving towards him down a dark street rushing into the scene of the shooting?

While he/she would love to be able to sit in his armchair the next day perusing the papers to find out from the real 'experts' what he should have done, the officer in charge doesn't have that luxury. Had he sent his unarmed staff directly into the scene and had they come across the offender in a nearby street and been killed who has to live with that decision? certainly not the armchair experts.

[Edbear]

Never thought I´d be seen doing this, but I have to agree there. In my other country, Saudi Arabia, all three heads would be removed by now.

But, but, but..! What about all the Lawyers who would dip out on their fees...?

If it is police policy to be as sure as they can that it's safe to enter an area that a gunman might be in, it seems reasonable that that policy has come about for a reason.

It is definitely sad that somebody died, but if the alternate is a dead policeman, I don't see a winner in that situation. Yes, people were on the phone saying it was safe to come in, and that does seem a little off, but if those people are wrong, more people could just have well died. It's a shame this man didn't have a gun of his own, and wasn't able to shoot and kill all three of these men.

Really, there's only one person to blame here, and that's the gunman. Given we have video evidence, I can see no reason why he and his mates shouldn't be the next to die.

Now there's a novel idea... Blame the perpetrators? How quaint...

[Ixion]

Oh man, you really do you think you know it all. Who do you think the cop in charge is in these situations? Howard Broad???.

Its usually a Senior Sergeant or failing that a Sergeant or even a Constable with some experience performing the Sergeants role. None of whom get paid much and all of whom do vast amounts of overtime for which they are paid nothing at all. And none of whom who get fancy uniforms with gold braid.



..

"Detective Inspector Jim Gallagher " is the man fronting up. Sounds pretty senior to me. And if incidents like that are being managed by constables, then the senior force needs a massive sacking. Where, then , ARE the senior officers?

So , what you are saying, is that the problem is not that a qualified and experienced officer made a bad call. But rather that the officer managing the incident didn't have the experience and qualifications required ? Doesn't really make the situation any better, does it ?

I reckon the public would be pretty interested in that , if it's true that constables 'with some experience" are being left to manage major incidents while the scrambled eggs sit , where ?

[Ixion]

You're so sure they were lied to? When exactly did you get to listen to all the comms tapes and interview the staff and victims involved?

Now , why is that whenever the police are shown in a bad light you rush in and accuse everybody in the matter of lying. Are you really accusing the Singhs and all the other people who were there of lying.

Well, yes, I guess if the whole country hates the police so much that they've entered into a giant conspiracy to lie about them .... ?

[Fatjim]

You know what, we get lots of whingers in this world, complaining about the slightest slur or insult.

Finally, someone as a legitimate beef.

[Tank]

I cannot believe how many arm chair critics there are on here.

The upshot is that it was a life and death situation.

NOBODY wanted anyone to die - all wanted to help. NOBODY was trying to shirk their jobs, leaving the guy to bleed to death.

I bet the coppers wanted the ambo guys in there as soon as they could verify that it was safe - but were not wanting to send them in where there could be a gunman.

The ambo guys wanted to get in Im sure - as soon as they knew that the gunman was gone.

The sad thing is that this all took time - and I bet all involved (with the exception of the shooter) are desperately unhappy about this.

It must be unimaginably stressful, and Im sure that everyone did their very best to help.

But here we all are only knowing what we read in the paper and so many think that they could have done better.

[scumdog]

"Detective Inspector Jim Gallagher " is the man fronting up. Sounds pretty senior to me. And if incidents like that are being managed by constables, then the senior force needs a massive sacking. Where, then , ARE the senior officers?

So , what you are saying, is that the problem is not that a qualified and experienced officer made a bad call. But rather that the officer managing the incident didn't have the experience and qualifications required ? Doesn't really make the situation any better, does it ?

I reckon the public would be pretty interested in that , if it's true that constables 'with some experience" are being left to manage major incidents while the scrambled eggs sit , where ?

\Two points:

The D.I. wasn't the johnny-on-the-spot managing the scene unless I've been misinformed.

Even 'scrambled eggs' ain't that numerous, especially 'real' one with a lot of up to daye front line experience as opposed to somebody bumped up to a shiney-bum position and given the rank to justify the salary.

[terbang]

Even 'scrambled eggs' ain't that numerous, especially 'real' one with a lot of up to daye front line experience as opposed to somebody bumped up to a shiney-bum position and given the rank to justify the salary.

Hmm yes, as I would have suspected. Imagine if we did that in Aviation, ¨oh there you go old chap, knew your father well, captain in the morning, theres a lad and don´t worry you´ll pick it up as you go¨...
There would be smoking holes all over the countryside..!
Right people in the right job works every time.

[scumdog]

Hmm yes, as I would have suspected. Imagine if we did that in Aviation, ¨oh there you go old chap, knew your father well, captain in the morning, theres a lad and don´t worry you´ll pick it up as you go¨...
There would be smoking holes all over the countryside..!
Right people in the right job works every time.

But it IS quicker and cheaper to pick up somebody from the private sector than train them and wait for them to climb the ranks.

Cheap = Best...It's the New Zealand way doncha know?

[Indoo]

"Detective Inspector Jim Gallagher " is the man fronting up. Sounds pretty senior to me.

Err he's the man in charge of the murder investigation, you do know that the first person on the scene of incidents such as this are from the patrol group and that the investigation then gets taken over by detectives right? I'm pretty sure that should be somewhere in how to be a armchair critic 101?

And if incidents like that are being managed by constables, then the senior force needs a massive sacking. Where, then , ARE the senior officers?

At other serious incidents? like the other armed Robbery that night which the Senior Sergeant was attending when this call came in? Unfortunately criminals don't give Police a roster of when they are going to commit murders and other serious crime, Police have to cope with what staff they have rostered on. Despite the 'high' salaries and uniforms with gold braid there there is simply not enough staff to have a Senior Sergeant or above at every single serious incident that happens 24/7 across Auckland, however at a shooting like this if possible they will come free from whatever they were at to attend. Unfortunately they can't teleport themselves over from what incident they were at to take charge which is why there are delays.

So , what you are saying, is that the problem is not that a qualified and experienced officer made a bad call. But rather that the officer managing the incident didn't have the experience and qualifications required ? Doesn't really make the situation any better, does it ?

So no doubt you would complain if the Constable first on the scene took charge, handed out guns, body armour and told everyone to march in, and at the same time your complaining because this didn't happen and they waited for a Senior Sergeant to arrive on the scene and take charge?

Now , why is that whenever the police are shown in a bad light you rush in and accuse everybody in the matter of lying. Are you really accusing the Singhs and all the other people who were there of lying.

You mean kinda like how you are rushing in, clearly with no knowledge of the facts or pretty much anything and accusing the Police of lying? I'm pretty sure all he was saying was wait for the facts to come out before jumping to conclusions. Unlike some people who are making all sorts of ridiculous accusations and claims and making themselves look rather ignorant and arrogant in the process.

[spudchucka]

tell me how you know that they weren't there,

Because the media reports have said that the people in the shop who called 111 said that the baddies had left the building.

This of course means, on planet Ixion, that the baddies couldn't possibly be anywhere in the vicinity; nor could a patrol possibly come across them in their poxy little black Mazda Astina fleeing the scene; nor could the baddies have gone off to the booze barn down the road to pull the same stunt there.