Why the WRB campaign is going nowhere.

[dangerous]

More weight to push OTHER vehicles, including "smaller" trucks into OUR path.

NO man, the braking systems and handling abilitys are up to it these days... anyway its only being triled down here at the moment, if ya drive into a truck be it 10T or 50T, the out come will be about the same

[Mom]

THIS is why I... and many OTHERS, choose to live in the SOUTH island. Still a rat race... but the rats run a lot SLOWER.

Got to love slow running rats!

You have no idea how lucky you lot are down there to not have the proliferation of these WRK's (wire rope killers) down there. Dont get too complacent though, now is the time for you guys to really get behind this initiative/campaign to stop Transit from installing anymore around the country.

If you dont, you will find them down your local highways, middle and roadside, to improve the roads safety you understand.

Dont dissmiss this campaign as not involving you, or it will!

[FJRider]

Got to love slow running rats!

You have no idea how lucky you lot are down there to not have the proliferation of these WRK's (wire rope killers) down there. Dont get too complacent though, now is the time for you guys to really get behind this initiative/campaign to stop Transit from installing anymore around the country.

If you dont, you will find them down your local highways, middle and roadside, to improve the roads safety you understand.

Dont dismiss this campaign as not involving you, or it will!

WE DO KNOW how lucky we are, and they ARE getting (a lot of km's of them already).
I DO NOT DISMISS this campaign, but steps taken so far won't do it. Motorcyclists are seen by many as the "alternitive" lifestyler's and trouble making hoons.
WE NEED BIG POWERFUL FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES, and lots of NON motorcycling friends... with GOOD images/reputations.

[Mom]

WE DO KNOW how lucky we are, and they ARE getting (a lot of km's of them already).
I DO NOT DISMISS this campaign, but steps taken so far won't do it. Motorcyclists are seen by many as the "alternitive" lifestyler's and trouble making hoons.
WE NEED BIG POWERFUL FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES, and lots of NON motorcycling friends... with GOOD images/reputations.

Excellent, we agree!!!... So how many of these "BIG POWERFUL FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES, and lots of NON motorcycling friends... with GOOD images/reputations" can you introduce me to? LOL. This is not an over night thing, this will take time and effort and perserverance. I am in for the long haul heaven help me.

[madandy]

THIS is why I... and many OTHERS, choose to live in the SOUTH island. Still a rat race... but the rats run a lot SLOWER.

I'm a born & Bred South Islander...I visit home every couple of years...SLOWER? Not when I was there on my Duc 3 months ago...

More weight to push OTHER vehicles, including "smaller" trucks into OUR path.

I'm sure "surviving" rellie's WILL...

6000kg wont make much difference to a car or bike. 13.6% fewer rigs might however.
As Dangerous alluded to, US and European trucks are designed for up to 55,000kgs. Some, like my old mans FH12 Volvo would just about out brake your Yamaha.

WE DO KNOW how lucky we are, and they ARE getting (a lot of km's of them already).
I DO NOT DISMISS this campaign, but steps taken so far won't do it. Motorcyclists are seen by many as the "alternitive" lifestyler's and trouble making hoons.
WE NEED BIG POWERFUL FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES, and lots of NON motorcycling friends... with GOOD images/reputations.

OK!!! LOL.

ENOUGH YELLING, OK? Time for action not words...

[FJRider]

Excellent, we agree!!!... So how many of these "BIG POWERFUL FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES, and lots of NON motorcycling friends... with GOOD images/reputations" can you introduce me to? LOL. This is not an over night thing, this will take time and effort and perserverance. I am in for the long haul heaven help me.

Have you spoken to YOUR MP lately... oops,... somebody with a GOOD reputation preferred aye..
What is the Automobile Association (New Zealand) saying about them ???
Car clubs(including 4wd ones) ???
St Johns ambulance opinions ???
Courier companies ????
Official letters to these people to at least get FEEDBACK.

[Mom]

Have you spoken to YOUR MP lately... oops,... somebody with a GOOD reputation preferred aye..
What is the Automobile Association (New Zealand) saying about them ???
Car clubs(including 4wd ones) ???
St Johns ambulance opinions ???
Courier companies ????
Official letters to these people to at least get FEEDBACK.

My MP is Lockwood Smith. He has a waiting list of about 7 weeks to get an appointement to see. I write letters though and send emails.

The AA, I spent quite a bit of time talking to Mike Noon, I think his title is National Motoring Affairs Manager. The AA originally came out quite strongly in favour of concrete barriers, but have modified their stand now. The cheesecutter on the highway heading into Wellington has (when I talked to Mike anyway) stopped 12 potential head on collisions since it was installed. As an organisation that promotes road safety they can not now come out against the WRSB's as it has been proven they do work in some situations. I got the distinct impression that AA not as sympathetic to motorcyclists as they could be, we are after all a tiny minority user of NZ's roads.

I like the St Johns/courier company idea though, will add that to my list of "things to do". I have talked to patrick McGuire the chairman of the Cement and Concrete Assn of NZ. He had an editorial piece in the herald in April? staing very firmly his preference of r concrete over wire. Of course he has an agenda, but nothing wrong with that, I do too. I am a motorcyclist first and foremost and as such am very concerned about these killer barriers. I also drive a car, so can approach this from 2 angles.

Heavy Transport industries and Bus companies are also on my contact list, along with car clubs and the like. I encourage everyone to write to their MP, contact the relevant portfollio MP's and their opposition counterparts about their concerns.

[FJRider]

I'm a born & Bred South Islander...I visit home every couple of years...SLOWER? Not when I was there on my Duc 3 months ago...

6000kg wont make much difference to a car or bike. 13.6% fewer rigs might however.
As Dangerous alluded to, US and European trucks are designed for up to 55,000kgs. Some, like my old mans FH12 Volvo would just about out brake your Yamaha.

OK!!! LOL.

ENOUGH YELLING, OK? Time for action not words...

Duc's were'nt made to go slow...which part of the south ???

Big(and even bigger) rigs do more harm to bikers than WRB's...ever tried to pass one in the wet on a two lane road or passing bay. Even one going the other way.

ALL things work perfectly in perfect conditions. Add roadworks(or bad roads),rain, hills,pea brained drivers,tourists in campervans, with a few motorcyclists... all traveling faster and or slower than the law "suggests" at the same time. Talk about trouble brewing...
Usually one (any one) is not enough to cause serious problems for a motorcyclist, but any combination of the above. And some I have'nt listed.

Bad decision making by riders do more harm to our public profile than anything else. Many try to "encourage" this attitude and act accordingly.

As you found recently (the ODT photo) the "actions" of a few don't help.

[FJRider]

I have had personal "experience" with concrete barriers, with ended with my bike on one side and ME on the other. Have also SEEN bikes bounce off them into the path of traffic. I have survived (more good luck on my part)... others have not. Motorcycling is inherently dangerous, with due care needed in the MORE dangerous areas. Experienced/smart riders KNOW when they're in one and take appropriate action to reduce risk.
Oh... we ALL have agenda's, we just have to make people think/believe, our agenda, is theirs too.
Maybe find/talk to a Motorway patrol "guy" (off the record if necessary) to get their observations/opinions. Even if the various people can't help, you'll know what your up against, as far as opinions go.

SORRY...forgot to mention .... HAPPY BIRTHDAY... have a good one...or two.

[Ixion]

.. I got the distinct impression that AA not as sympathetic to motorcyclists as they could be, we are after all a tiny minority user of NZ's roads.

...

Shit. Y'reckon

I suppose next thing y'll be telling me George W is not as sympathetic to Al Queda as he could be.

[madandy]

Duc's weren't made to go slow...which part of the south ???

Big(and even bigger) rigs do more harm to bikers than WRB's...ever tried to pass one in the wet on a two lane road or passing bay. Even one going the other way.

ALL things work perfectly in perfect conditions. Add road works (or bad roads),rain, hills,pea brained drivers,tourists in camper vans, with a few motorcyclists... all travelling faster and or slower than the law "suggests" at the same time. Talk about trouble brewing...
Usually one (any one) is not enough to cause serious problems for a motorcyclist, but any combination of the above. And some I haven't listed.

Bad decision making by riders do more harm to our public profile than anything else. Many try to "encourage" this attitude and act accordingly.

As you found recently (the ODT photo) the "actions" of a few don't help.

Christchurch to Picton.
I wasn't riding slow but the traffic in Chch was just like Wellington, Hamilton, Tauranga, Auckland. They speed between lights, change lanes, disobey 50, 70 & 80 km/h speed limits just like the rest.
Then fall asleep on the open road and become bike fodder at the first sign of hills & bends just like their Northern counterparts

Big rigs can shroud the immediate area in spray and make overtaking challenging yes. We get a lot more rain up here than most of the south Island so Northern riders are well used to oevertaking trucks in the rain.
Increasing their mass will not change that.
Even a 2.5 ton SUV will make a mess of us so you could argue that all vehicles do more harm to motorcyclists than WRB's but that doesn't make their use.

While I agree with many of your points , and they are part of the attitude adjustment that is long overdue, a WRB will never work perfectly for a motorcyclist regardless of conditions.

[FJRider]

Picton to Christchurch is one of, if not THE busiest, road in the south island. State highway one main route to or from the ferries. Night time is even worse.
I saw the "light(s)" and kept going SOUTH. The nearest set of traffic lights(to me) is 220 km's away...still too close.
Speak to a few who have ridden on the south's WEST coast, narrow roads, in the "rain". We do know about rain. Admittedly I do believe motorway riding, in traffic, in the rain...well you can have it.
Hit ANYTHING at 100 km/h, and it gets messy...fast !!!
As I have said... In perfect conditions, it will work perfectly. Less than perfect conditions....
COMPROMISE has always been the "order of the day" in most of goverment policys to "help" road safety
My initial mention of the "increase of mass" of some trucks, was not road safety orientated, but highlighted change of policys by goverment. WITHOUT warning, in such a way, without full realisation of the public, what the changes could mean to them. Such has happened, with the installation or WRB's

[MSTRS:Me]

Back to the original premise of this thread...that the cc campaign is going nowhere.
It's easy to think that is the case. Transit are asked by the campaign to stop installing more of this crap until etc etc....
Transit announced a few days ago that they are undertaking a joint study with Oz into the effectiveness of WRB esp as it pertains to us. BUT they have not stopped installing the crap.
The cynics amongst us (me included) will say 'Study? Yea right. A sop to shut us up. The outcome can be accurately guessed right now.'
The fact the Transit have made such an announcement is proof that the campaign is making some difference. So the campaign IS going somewhere.
For all the differing opinions as to the dangers of WRB, the fact remains that none of us want to be exposed to any more danger than is absolutely necessary, and the different factions amongst us can collectively do their bit to achieve better outcomes for all. Instead of viciously deriding this one or that, what is wrong with pulling together, each in their own way? Support is a 2-way street, and the ModerateYourBehaviourBrigade might find less resistance to their proposals if they give a nod to the SaferBarrierBrigade, who might find backing from the BeNiceToCagersBrigade.
Or is this just a bit too wooly?

[Oscar]

Until such time as motorcyclists as a whole accept that the greatest danger to our own safety comes, in fact, from our own attitudes and actions and not from cheesecutters, cagers or ginga coppers nothing is likely to change.

To fix a problem you must ultimately confront the base problem.

Well said.

Whereas the cheesecutters are a danger to us all, we need to address the biggest problem first - those motorcyclists who appear hellbent on proving Darwin correct.

To those that say the campaign is going OK, how come this is the only place I've heard of it? Despite being on the alert for bike related stuff in the media like most of us, the only thing I've heard in the mainstream media is the Canadian Prick from LTSA commenting on the death on the Southern Motorway. He indicated that the guy was travelling so fast that he was probably dead before he hit the barrier.

[MSTRS:Me]

Despite being on the alert for bike related stuff in the media like most of us, the only thing I've heard in the mainstream media is the Canadian Prick from LTSA commenting on the death on the Southern Motorway. He indicated that the guy was travelling so fast that he was probably dead before he hit the barrier.

We're getting there. Keep watching.
And who takes any notice of the Canadian prick? Every time he opens his mouth, it's an embarassment to sentient beings.