Road user charge increase truckies' drive/march this Friday 4 July

[trustme]

Our economy is reeling so the govt decides to increase tax on transport which will result in a price increase on everything we buy that has a transport component . Great way to stimulate the economy
Wonder if Merv will still be going Yippee as he finds his dollar continuing to buy less & less while his pay stays the same
So there will be less trucks.
Too bad you won't be able to afford the fuel to ride down those unclogged roads to buy goods from empty shops because there is no rail siding to your local shopping centre for delivery of stuff you can no longer afford
Hope you are good at gardening Merv or you going to get fucking hungry.

[smokeyging]

It seems a coincidence that the RUCs went up at the same time the government took over the railways doesn't it?...

[trustme]

Stop being so cynical.
Its Labours arrogance that makes them think they can get away with it.
What they forget is that fuel costs have risen dramatically for truckies ,many an OD is already struggling & if they were honest with themselves they would be better off on wages. These guys run fine margins then the govt hits them with another tax increase without warning that many will not be able to recover for some time . The govt is probably stunned at the reaction, they have pushed once too often
This demonstrates to me just how far out of touch this govt really is.

So who is catching the train to work tomorrow to help pay off the billion or so or would you rather just pay it off with a tax increase to offset the tax cut Sullen might give you next year if you reelect him.

Me ,cynical, NEVER

[merv]

Thats a daft statement. The govt collects FAR more money from road taxes etc than they spend on the roads. Its a fucking ripoff.

DB

Ah are you dafter than me and drinking too much Tui or something? Ever read this http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...ew-for-pdf.pdf ?

Key point being:

3.3 Who pays for the roading network?

Road users pay 62% ($2.3 billion per annum) and ratepayers pay 8% ($0.3 million per
annum). The main components of the user and related charges are:

• Fuel Excise Duty $1079m
• Road User Charges $584m
• Motor Vehicle Fees $568m
• Other charges (Fire Service Insurance levy, Policy fines) $99m
• TLA Roading rates $288m

Note that these figures include the proportion of fuel excise which goes to the Crown
Account as well as that going to the National Land Transport Fund.

This leaves a shortfall of 30% ($1.1 billion per annum) which is primarily linked to two
areas of costs. These are the imputed costs of environmental and accident externalities (total cost $1.8 billion per annum), and the rate of return on investment ($750 million per annum). Air pollution costs of $442 million per annum are partially paid for by the health system, while climate change costs are not paid for by anyone. Water quality and quantity costs are not fully paid for by anyone either. This is because although local councils remove the flow of water, it is not generally treated to reach a specific quality. Noise pollution costs and their distribution are the subject of further work by the Ministry of Transport.

[merv]

Our economy is reeling so the govt decides to increase tax on transport which will result in a price increase on everything we buy that has a transport component . Great way to stimulate the economy
Wonder if Merv will still be going Yippee as he finds his dollar continuing to buy less & less while his pay stays the same
So there will be less trucks.
Too bad you won't be able to afford the fuel to ride down those unclogged roads to buy goods from empty shops because there is no rail siding to your local shopping centre for delivery of stuff you can no longer afford
Hope you are good at gardening Merv or you going to get fucking hungry.

Well I was around for the '74 oil crisis and just loved driving/riding on the uncluttered roads and I also enjoy riding on nice twisty roads.

My earlier comments were geared towards the few I keep seeing comment on "more money needed for roads to make them safer - blah blah", "get the other bloody vehicles out of my way blah blah".

I personally think too much has been invested in roads to make them straight and boring and if that is kept up how long before motorcycling will be a boring form of transport and not a nice leisure activity? Its bad enough the gravel roads are being sealed over let alone all the curves that are being cut out. Too much has been invested in trucking already therefore - time it should pay.

p.s. I could do with going hungry I'm too lazy to go to the gym to get weight off.

[Sanx]

This leaves a shortfall of 30% ($1.1 billion per annum) which is primarily linked to two
areas of costs. These are the imputed costs of environmental and accident externalities (total cost $1.8 billion per annum), and the rate of return on investment ($750 million per annum). Air pollution costs of $442 million per annum are partially paid for by the health system, while climate change costs are not paid for by anyone. Water quality and quantity costs are not fully paid for by anyone either. This is because although local councils remove the flow of water, it is not generally treated to reach a specific quality. Noise pollution costs and their distribution are the subject of further work by the Ministry of Transport.

So this shortfall they talk about is entirely fake. Air pollution costs of $442 million? Sure it's not $443 million? Or $441 million? That will be a figure extrapolated out from some pretty wishy-washy data and then simply fudged to make it as high as possible. Climate change costs not paid by anyone; exactly, so it isn't a cost and cannot be counted.

As for environmental and accident externalities ... whatever they are ... ACC pays for the treatment, rehabilitation and incidental costs resulting from injuries. So counting them as a transport cost is double-dipping. As for environmental externalities - if they cost $1.8 billion, then I'd love to see the receipts. Sounds like typical government bullshit to me.

[Ixion]

Highly creative accounting!

What is the actual total of the cheques written out from the accounts into which petrol and road tax income is paid. Only including cheques for actual road expenses. ?

[BiK3RChiK]

It's all a freakin ripoff! Fuel has increased out of sight for truckies. Then the re-licencing goes up, now the RUC. Many truckies are on the knife-edge already. This is going to mean many of them going out of business. Also, it will mean increased cost to consumers. Quite possibly it will also mean less goods for sale at your local shops as there are fewer ways of getting goods in.

The government has it's head in the sand! And the next one will be no different... But that's ok, they are set for the rest of their life, so they don't care! I'd like to give them a reality check for the average person on the street!

[merv]

Ha ha and clogging the rush hour streets with vehicles belching diesel fumes into the air is really going to make the point that these things that motorcyclists complain about dropping diesel on the Rimutaka Hill among other things (I never mentioned that earlier), is really going to endear us to their presence. Get as many trucks off the road as we can I say and come up with a proper plan around balanced transport solutions, not just kneejerk over only the second rise in RUC in 19 years.

Here's a few examples found on a quick search as to how KBers in Welly just love trucks and that was only looking for the spill element:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=53017

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=50467

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=29166

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23316

Anyway this country has freedom of speech, so sure, they can protest if they like, but there will be totally mixed reactions to them similar to what occurs with union strikes.

[imdying]

They should try driving at 90 instead of 110 if they want to decrease their costs. Truckies have lobbied for years to control transport in NZ, and helped turn out rail service shite as a result, a little pain won't hurt them. Everything will go up a result... well news flash, it's going up anyway.

[cooneyr]

LOL - having fun merv Want to explain to the others what you do for a job. Funny thing is I'm on the other side of the same fence and I agree. Trucks do not pay their way at the moment.

Pavement damage for example. A pavement (road surfacing, base course, sub base and sub grade) has a finite life (the gravels eventually break down and are no longer strong enough). One fully laden truck does approximately as much damage to the pavement as 5000 cars (note I said approximate because it depends a lot on what the pavement is made off). From what I can figure from this document there is a factor of about 65 (type 1 2 tonne veh compared to 23 tonne type 14 (truck) plus a 23 tonne type 28 (trailer))

Second example is roadway capacity. If the traffic stream is entirely trucks the capacity of road is significantly less than if the traffic stream is cars i.e. around 1/2.

Freight should be on facilities that are much more capable of carrying it than roads. Yes the price of goods will increase but in case you haven't noticed fuel has the same effect. I believe we are in for a time of significant change with respect to transport and while it is going to be hard for some to accept thats the way it is.

I'm not that close to these things but it seems to me that somebody so figure out how much the latest 10c increase in fuel is going to cost a trucking firm per year then compare that to how much the latest increase in RUC is going to cost the firm per year. This would be very interesting because I dont see the trucking firms protesting the fuel prices! All we need is the KM's a truck covers per year, the fuel consumption per km of a truck and the weight of the truck.

Taking of the professional hat for a bit - For to long we have followed the American development model (1/4 section, low density, poor public transport urban sprawl). We do not, repeat do not, want out cities to end up like LA with all its transport problems (and the unbelievably large investment to try and counter them). I seriously believe that we will in 20 years be well and truly along the path towards the European model of development with good public transport and high density development. All these changes of increased fuel costs, increased RUC, more stringent regs for car re safety, emissions etc are the stick in the equation and if you have been observant you would have noticed that PT services have been improving significantly, there are more cycle ways more pedestrian friendly facilities i.e. the carrot (you can beat the donkey with a stick to get it to do something and you can lead the donkey with a carrot - humans are more complex so it requires a bit of the stick and the carrot). The key thing that isn't keeping up is the public and their perception of what is "right". Times are a changin, get with the game.

/rant

Cheers R

[merv]

Well I used to work for the rail industry until 1999 and sit outside it now.

I never heard the truck lobby on here shout out loud how great the Labour Government was for agreeing to go into trials with 50 tonne instead of 44 tonne trucks http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0805/S00606.htm. (Note in NZ typically one rail wagon alone is 72 tonnes - about a 56 tonne payload - light by world standards)

If the tare is say 10 tonnes, then the load increases from 34 to 40 tonnes - that's an almost 18% productivity improvement. Funny I wasn't hearing anyone talk about reduced costs over this one.

Greens don't like it of course http://www.greens.org.nz/node/19113

Bloody juggernauts .

[Mr Merde]

Wish I could be there. I'm sick of these govt cunts changing the rules over and over again. I wish there was some mechanism whereby we could tell them to FUCK OFF.

growl!

DB

There is, its called an "ELECTION"

[Jorja]

All main centres on Friday 7.30am to 9.30am 4th July 2008 truckies will be converging on main centres like Queen Street Auckland to show there disgust at the recent user charge increase by the government after absolutely no consultation as promised! show your support...these charges will be passed onto YOU the customer...if you think that times are hard now, & if the government keeps making its own decisions things are going th get even harder!

Rather than doing a rolling strike which will inconvenience the general public I recon they should all drive to the beehive and start dumping their loads on the lawns.

No one has mentioned the $60 rise in registration fees for diesels. Or the $30 rise for bikes and cars. That came into effect 1/7/08 and it was kept very quiet. For someone like me with a diesel van it is a hugh increase. Plus I also get the ruc increases!!!

FOR SALE: 1 Toyota Liteace Noah 8 seater van

[tri boy]

The Govt knows the economy has slowed to a crawl. Hence tax intake from GST on spending etc is about to dry up, so they will be raising ALL forms of set tax as quickly as they can.
Remember, govts do not decrease there earnings no matter what is happening in the real world. You can expect booze, smokes, road user, rego, etc to keep climbing while YOUR income in real terms is diminished.
Welcome to the recession.
There is also the major capital works program that is "Transmission Gully" that govt is finally admitting the country needs. (50yrs after the US was going to build it for free). That will end up costing double the $Billion odd that they claim. Guess who is paying for that.........