No ticket quota for police? Read this...

[Naki Rat]

Serious question:

in the absence of having some performance indicators/KPI/KDRs linked to infringement outputs, how would you suggest traffic police officers are appraised/monitored?

Appraising civil servants' performance. What a novel idea - it'll never happen (or at least not in any form that will have meaningfulness)

[MSTRS:Me]

Dumbest thing I've ever read, I'm sorry, but that statement is a bunch of hogwash.

I'd rather drive on gravel roads with competent drivers than on pristine roads with idiots who don't know left or right.
Since when has a newly paved road prevented someone who goes into a corner hot/drunk/anything else from going over the center line and taking out oncoming vehicles?

Now you will say "better road surface means they will be able to tighten up the corner without losing control" blah blah blah BS.
A better corner means people will just go into it faster, it won't stop people from going in too fast.

Being too lazy to look up the stats, I would say the majority of road accidents are caused by driver error, not the road surface.

I'm talking about that erroneous term "Making the roads safer..." - when what is meant is making motorists drive in such a way as to not cause crashes etc. Semantics, I hear you say? Certainly, but to be understood one must say what one means.
You make much of the surface of a road...obviously that is something that is important to you? But I refer more to the design of roads - ie corners that tighten, run off-camber, poor repairs.
You also seem to think that if roads were 'perfect' that motorists would drive them like maniacs. I never said that. And wouldn't, either. About all you said that I'd agree with is your last sentence. Because even if all roads were straight, with no adjacent opposing lane/s, perfect seal surface and lowered speed limit...people will still manage to kill themselves/others. And when some shiny automaton from bullshit castle harps on about "It's working"...I think to myself that improved roads, retrofitted median barriers and better car design obviously are a total waste of resources.

[Ocean1]

Serious question:

in the absence of having some performance indicators/KPI/KDRs linked to infringement outputs, how would you suggest traffic police officers are appraised/monitored?

No it's not.

A serious question would be asking why you'd reward the performance of a function that's nescessary only if that function fails.

Check "negative feedback control".

And no, it don't mean yelling abuse at the perps till they behave.

[cosmo_1]

hey gang,ive just scored an 86 vf1000r! took it out for a hoon 2day-goes well,actually the v4 runs mint-im gonna sell my car az to pump a little cash into it..loose az

[Patar]

I'm talking about that erroneous term "Making the roads safer..." - when what is meant is making motorists drive in such a way as to not cause crashes etc. Semantics, I hear you say? Certainly, but to be understood one must say what one means.
You make much of the surface of a road...obviously that is something that is important to you? But I refer more to the design of roads - ie corners that tighten, run off-camber, poor repairs.
You also seem to think that if roads were 'perfect' that motorists would drive them like maniacs. I never said that. And wouldn't, either. About all you said that I'd agree with is your last sentence. Because even if all roads were straight, with no adjacent opposing lane/s, perfect seal surface and lowered speed limit...people will still manage to kill themselves/others. And when some shiny automaton from bullshit castle harps on about "It's working"...I think to myself that improved roads, retrofitted median barriers and better car design obviously are a total waste of resources.

***Caution, Waffle***

There are standards that govern the design of roads, standards designed for road users with a free speed up to the 95th percentile (I believe it's the 95th, can't quite remember my schooling on the subject), but often times these design parameters cannot be followed due to terrain restrictions.

Now here for the kicker that will annoy anyone who hates the fact that cops sit and give tickets on the straights to "improve road safety".

Roads are designed in 'speed environments' most dairy flats and other areas where there aren't big restrictions on the layout of a road are of a speed environment of 110km/h, meaning that the geometry of the roads is designed so that anyone travelling at 110km/h can do so in complete mechanical safety (i.e the car isn't going to suddenly lose traction around a corner).
Other areas where the road is more constricted and corners have to be sharper than engineers would like, the speed environment is decreased to say 75km/h where to road geometry suits that of a car travelling at 75km/h, yet the speed limit stays the same at 100km/h.

***My Point***

While police filling out their quota by placing themselves on a large straight where people often times speed, may be annoying and not seem to "improve road safety", it should with any luck get them to slow down from going say 130 in a 110 environment and 100 in a 75 environment to 80 in a 75 environment, thus increasing road safety.

And I know these design principles didn't exist/weren't adhered to 20 years ago when many roads were designed, they are slowly being redesigned but because of our small population base and huge land mass, taxes can only go so far, and in fact the revenue generated from ticket quotas help pay for your roads to be improved.

[Ixion]

Serious question:

in the absence of having some performance indicators/KPI/KDRs linked to infringement outputs, how would you suggest traffic police officers are appraised/monitored?

Well here's some thoughts:

No of *contacts*. Not tickets. Contacts with the public.
No of crashes in the district (obvious a district wide one , not a personal KPI). All crashes not just injury one. Trend thereof.
Feedback from the public!
Surveys. how many people run red lights , when there *isn't* a cop watching. how many wear seatbelts. How many drive *under the limit in bad conditions (that last is the real KPI of a traffic force.)
I once suggested that cops should give "merit points". Like demerit points but in reverse. Awarded for observed safe considerate sensible driving. The top traffic cop at the time laughed out loud. Yet educators know that postive reinforcement beats negative reinforcement aces and eights every time. So, number of merit points handed out.
Percentage of local driver licence applicnats who pass (the MUCH MUCH harder test !) first time.

And why do individual traffic cops have to be so measured? Traffic coppery is a team business. The rest of the team will very very quickly deal with a cop who isn't pulling his weight. So, as loing as the *team* effort is working, why does the individual cop need a KPI ?


Comes down to what you perceive a traffic cops job to be. I suggest you perceive it as punishing people. I'd perceive it as preventing crashes.

[Conquiztador]

Serious question:

in the absence of having some performance indicators/KPI/KDRs linked to infringement outputs, how would you suggest traffic police officers are appraised/monitored?

What about giving a team of them an area they are responsible for (probably already in place?) and based on statistics that is currently available, measure the change that they achieve by the work they do and NOT by the amount of tickets they write out?

You would most probably get a much bigger buy in from the traffic cops as they would have an bigger input in to what happens in their area. A little like departments in supermarkets measure how long they go without an accident.

[Toaster]

I wonder if TUI will make up a billboard like:

"Tickets: It's all about performance management..... yeah right"

[Toaster]

Here's a question - if thee WAS a quota (not asying there is and not saying there isn't) why would everyone have a problem with that?

Just be careful, don't get caught and you'll be fine. It has worked for me so far....

Agreed, and same here! The only time I got pulled over was for winning a prize for "safe riding practices" (go figure!).

My neighbour and I zipped past a well hidden HP unit at around 120km/h on SH16 near Port Albert on Sunday and he/she didn't bother us. Clear fine day, perfect for a ride.

Nice one.... good to see a copper applying the time place and circumstances test to the conditions and leaving us be.

[Patrick]

I wonder if TUI will make up a billboard like:

"Tickets: It's all about performance management..... yeah right"

But "quota" is so much more easier to say, type / write and to spell. Call it what it is. Then the mystery would be solved and everyone can move on.

[MSTRS:Me]

Roads are designed in 'speed environments' most dairy flats and other areas where there aren't big restrictions on the layout of a road are of a speed environment of 110km/h, meaning that the geometry of the roads is designed so that anyone travelling at 110km/h can do so in complete mechanical safety (i.e the car isn't going to suddenly lose traction around a corner).
Other areas where the road is more constricted and corners have to be sharper than engineers would like, the speed environment is decreased to say 75km/h where to road geometry suits that of a car travelling at 75km/h, yet the speed limit stays the same at 100km/h.

The speed limit is 100 not 110 (in case you hadn't noticed). On a basically straight, good condition road there is no reason why a vehicle cannot safely travel at twice this speed. At least for parts of it. But no, the limit is 100. As Ixion said earlier, set more or less arbitrarily using a variety of 'reasons' why this is a safe speed in most circumstances.
How do you explain the 80 limit in the Karangahape Gorge and Dome Valley (for instance)? It's not the road that is a problem, that's for sure.

While police filling out their quota by placing themselves on a large straight where people often times speed, may be annoying and not seem to "improve road safety", it should with any luck get them to slow down from going say 130 in a 110 environment and 100 in a 75 environment to 80 in a 75 environment, thus increasing road safety.

Perhaps I am typical (of bikers?) in that I take my misbehaving to roads where the cops don't sit. What does that say about their program of reducing overall speeds?

And I know these design principles didn't exist/weren't adhered to 20 years ago when many roads were designed, they are slowly being redesigned but because of our small population base and huge land mass, taxes can only go so far, and in fact the revenue generated from ticket quotas help pay for your roads to be improved.

You give Transit (now NZTA) waaaaay too much credit for their design/build practices. We in Napier/Hastings have just suffered through 6 months of having a long section of the Expressway dug up and redone, because when it was built (5 years ago?) the road was made to a design that was outdated 20 years ago. Something to do with the camber apparently 'assisting' in allowing vehicles to drift to the right. Never noticed anything of the sort myself (but then I pay attention to what I'm doing when driving/riding), but we all notice now the shitty surface, with it's bumps, ripples and railway-tracking patch seal.

[MSTRS:Me]

But "quota" is so much more easier to say, type / write and to spell. Call it what it is. Then the mystery would be solved and everyone can move on.

Okay, so it's not you denying the term. Can you have a word with Howard and convince him to tell his minions to stop denying there is a quota?
Thanks.

[Patrick]

Okay, so it's not you denying the term. Can you have a word with Howard and convince him to tell his minions to stop denying there is a quota?
Thanks.

Nah... Tis actually quite funny how everyone gets their thongs on back to front if it is denied... what else would the papers have as a lead story?

[MSTRS:Me]

Nah... Tis actually quite funny how everyone gets their thongs on back to front if it is denied... what else would the papers have as a lead story?

Well, Winston and Glenngate are getting a bit old....
But seriously, if the term 'quota' was admitted, then we could stop arguing about what is meant by KPI, targets etc and get on with the business of playing cat and mouse with you buggers

[PirateJafa]

I once suggested that cops should give "merit points". Like demerit points but in reverse. Awarded for observed safe considerate sensible driving. The top traffic cop at the time laughed out loud. Yet educators know that postive reinforcement beats negative reinforcement aces and eights every time. So, number of merit points handed out.
Percentage of local driver licence applicnats who pass (the MUCH MUCH harder test !) first time.

Unfortunately then you'd get the coppers who'd just happen to give their mates merit point because, y'know, he's my mate.

Not all, of course, but a number certainly would.