Manslaughter charge for bloke who killed tagger

[wbks]

Well said!

[Ixion]

Well he obviously didn't go after them with a knife to talk it through, so no in answer to your question, that very fact alone strengthens my argument doesn't it? He pursued them with a knife and with intent.

I don't see that is obvious at all. He might well have intended to talk with them (albeit probably in a very loud voice). But took the prudential step of taking a means of self defence with him. Which he used when the youths escalated the meeting from talking to attack.There is no evidence at all that he pursued them with (any particular) intent.

The jury clearly disagree with you that he had intent since that would require a murder verdict.

I keep a fire extinguisher in the gargre. Doesn't mean I intend to set fire to the place.

[Swoop]

It's Planet Reality Check, actually. Here people actually get on with life in a reasonable manner,

If you lived in South Auckland, a dodgy suburb/street or another "less desirable" area of NZ, would the same stance be taken?

Old honky dude gets sick of taggers, grabs knife and goes outside to chase taggers, all concerned run until limp-wristed modern youths run out of puff before the older overweight honky does.

I wonder how many times said "spotty-faced youff" pressed their "reset-game" button? "Shit bro. We are not supposed to face real-world consequences for breaking the law!"

Nah the "racist crap" is the issue - that's the reason you're suggesting its ok a kid "scumbucket" was killed. It's also the reason a murderer was given a lighter sentence

Please explain this "lighter sentence".
Sentencing has not yet been handed down by the court system.

[speedpro]

The Jury heard the evidence, the Jury took a long time to think about it, and from experiance probably had heated discussion about it, before deciding on their verdict.

Prudence would suggest some form of defence when approaching your typical "scumbag youf" that you have just found causing damage to property you own. Even if you do just want a "chat". Without actually knowing what evidence the Jury heard it appears they may have considered that. Certainly it is near impossible to question their decision rationally.

Fat white middle aged guys if they are killed aren't in the middle of some criminal activity from what I read in the news. The same can't be said for many a dead "scumbag youf".

It's a shame the other youf didn't fall over onto something sharp as he ran away as well.

[Ixion]

Interesting point , that. There were two youfs involved. Has the still alive one been charged with anything? If not, why not

[Patrick]

Oh yeah ok, and that would be why in every colonial country the prisons are full of indigenous people, and all prisons across the world are populated by the poor, and in the states if you are black and kill someone you are more likely to fry.

Just one example: www.eji.org/eji/deathpenalty/racialbias

Oh the poor oppressed down trodden law breaker. My heart bleeds. Do the crime, do the time.... Who cares what colour the law breaker is? I sure as hell don't!

Why the venom my friend? Had a hard day Christmas shopping?

Little maori kid squiggles on a fence, white middle aged business man runs back inside his house, grabs a knife (intention?), runs a considerable distance after him (intention?), stabs him...and gets away with murder.

I didn't detect any remorse from the prick either in his taped interviews - just regret for his brain explosion (losing control of his temper in going after the kid) and where it landed him.

I'm not an advocate for more and more punitive justice or "tougher sentences". But I'd like to see more consistent application of the law

His only "intention" was to defend himself, and just as well. They turned on him, spray painting his face while he tried to talk to them. The youth was stabbed in the chest, not running away defenseless as you seem to advocate. Many others have also pointed this out.....

He was upset in the video interviews, he wished he took something else instead of a knife, but I suppose you only want to see and hear what you want to see and hear.

The defending your property angle is one big bullshit defence. The man willingly entered into a confrontation with kids armed with a weapon.

Defending property nonsense - so little damage was done that the prick wouldn't even bother claiming insurance as it wouldn't be worth the excess.

NO. He was no longer defending his property. Folow the case. You're making shit up. He took the knife for his own defence. Illegal in itself, but again, just as well as even though he had this knife, the two still turned on him, wanted a go, and came second...

Again the spin. He wasn't defending his property, the damage had already been done. So don't go try inferring I've said something I didn't. The two teenagers DID damage his property, and I've no idea what his insurance excess was, but that is totally irrelevant. The damage has a value, and whether he would have paid for it himself, or claimed on insurance is not the issue. The first issue is that damage was done. Even you cannot condone that suely?

Then you haven't even addressed the question of how someone running away can be stabbed in the chest. Please explain that!

It has been pointed out to him often enough. He chooses to ignore this point. The jury, hearing all the "facts" didn't.

Well he obviously didn't go after them with a knife to talk it through, so no in answer to your question, that very fact alone strengthens my argument doesn't it? He pursued them with a knife and with intent.

Sigh. Sooooooooooooo very slow, is this one.....

Yeah I think it could have something to do with the fact that to kill someone for low level childish vandalism is a bit unusual

I take it would have been better for you that these two killed him then?

... balh blah... But you seem to have blurred the issues completely.
more blah blah...

Talk about making it up on the run as you go....

Hey, pot!!! What did that kettle call ya?????????????

Nice one - I knew I should have read some of your earlier drivel. Killing someone hardly makes one a law abiding citizen does it?


Your claim that the boy who was killed is a criminal is based on what the fact that he tagged on this guys fence? You wouldn't have jay walked, hit anyone, or pissed in public at anytime in your life would you?

]

I bet Youth Aid have a dossier thicker than your head on that kid, and his mate.....

Do you get this upset when someone gets stabbed to death in the main street while coming to the aid of a lady... or a purse snatcher runs their victim over in a shopping maul car park?

Don't recall seeing any of his posts on that one....

Perhaps it was because that guy was a whitey?

[scumdog]

I bet Youth Aid have a dossier thicker than your head on that kid, and his mate.....

Now ain't THAT the truth???

So many young criminal losers die as a result of their own actions and the weeping family/mates say

"he was a good sort, a bit cheeky" or
"he wasn't really bad, just got into a bit of mischief (sp?)" or
"he stole a bit of stuff and things like that but hewould never hurt anybody" or
"it's a shame 'cos he was a really good sort but he just got around with the wrong crowd"

Best one?: "The cops never gave him a chance"

They ALL had chances, some chose not to take theirs.

[ghost]

If you genuinely want history and sociology lessons about the effects of colonisation on indigenious people and the relationships between minority cultures, poverty and crime then enrol in university and learn to listen rather than burble shite.

I suspect as Hitcher has observed that you would be well suited to talk back - you could listen to shite burbling all day long and further educate yourself that way

Keep talking the propaganda eegit, I'lljust sit here listening to talk back ...... Not!

[98tls]

Yep burbling shite - no need for education for you then. Where do you get your balanced perspective? Talkback or 3 news?

Excitable thing you eh,when the voices stop and you notice the curtains seem a lighter shade use all your inner strength to raise yourself from your place of slumber and for the good of those that live close to you go outside,as in open the door and take a step.Good luck from the other side.Though i can only imagine what your going through i will as its christmas forgive you for any future ramblings in response to this post.

[candor]

[QUOTE=ghost;1863158]Fair enough, just trying to clarify your position on the race issue involved in this case and others. I too think that the prison population is overly representative of certain races, however I find it hard to blame the colonisation or minority culture argument. This does a disservice to people of those races who work hard, live within societies bounds and prosper, and still maintain their culture.

/QUOTE]

Interestingly... a look at tribal affiliations of those in our prison population shows it is not those tribes most divorced from their culture ie the language and lifestyle aspects that feature big in prison musters... but rather excess members of those iwi most subject to land thefts and confiscations. Not one and the same thing quite.

Certain tribes most land plundered chose to keep pakeha culture at bay. Maori relations of mine from those overimprisoned tribes who had education and were crims tell me the issue for them was not poverty, poor education or any of those lefty socialist manufactured crime explanations. And they had their culcha intact.

They claim the cause of their earlier decades of serious misconduct (gang style) was the injury done to the spirit... because as a warrior people they had got done (land stripped not in war but mostly by the underhand pen & paper methods). Felt failed in their job of protecting the land from outsiders (or grabbing more), land which high ranking wahine traditionally controlled the use of ie dealt out sustaining parcels to those deserving. An important check and balance to keep men behaving.

Note - territoriality is a male status virtue. Territory edges were marked with sacred items I believe pre colonisation. I note in rel to human behaviour that my dogs ego meter rises, and he is more content, the wider the boundaries of a property I give him to territory mark are.

My male rellys say this historic awareness of land loss shame gives them an empathy for certain African warrior peoples coming here as refugees, and reputedly raising hell due to wounded warrior pride!

Would a woman chase a territory invader / marker / tagger with a knife. No but any man could if pushed. I go with the jist of this thread - that it was a stupid accident, due to stupid decisions. By all concerned. Chasing with a knife was well overboard - call the cops, or maybe post ur issue here if they're lurkin!

[wbks]

What the fuck was all that shit in the last post about?

[speedpro]

I thought that was an interesting point and one I hadn't considered. It'd be interesting to see how much indoctrination re past injustices the youf received from elders changed their perspective of society and the respect they did or did not have for it's rules and laws. It would be quite easy I think to raise a kid who had major issues with general society or some aspects of it. To me a good example of this which gets plenty of air time is the kids in Palestine or some such location. 8-9 yr olds full of hate for the other guys because of something their elders tell them over and over even if the kids don't understand it.

Maybe the problem starts with those older/senior people handing on their hatred/prejudice/values.

[wbks]

Thats a point I guess but unless you tell me of any instances in which clarkies govt shot a few missiles into a crowd of maori then... But I get your point about being taught to behave that way.

[Mikkel]

Good to see that I am not the only paranoid person in here. But from what's written Auckland sure sounds like a nice place to live.

Just means someone needs to come up with an efficient way of killing a whole lot of them off at once

Well, P is proving rather effective distribution-wise. Problem is it isn't killing fast enough... perhaps add rat poison.

yea.. i'll do some time and i'd wear it as a badge of honor that i was defending my family and my "castle"

While I agree with you - just remember that your family and "castle" remains unprotected while you're in the penalty box.

Though your chances of killing someone by stabbing them in the area of their heart would have to be pretty good wouldn't they?

Stabbing someone through the ribcage isn't easy AFAIK. I'm sure Sarge could provide an enlightening discourse on the finer point of knifemansship. (The way to a man's heart goes through his stomach, etc.) Using a knife takes more skill and training than using a baseball bat.

In most deaths due to stabbing the abdominal region is the target I believe.

The fella should have grabbed his broomhandle - easier to use, better in a fight (if you haven't got training) and less risk of accidentally killing someone.

History tells us he's doing a terrible job to date.

It's not god's job, remember it's Jesus who saves! (... and takes half damage).

[McJim]

Good to see that I am not the only paranoid person in here. But from what's written Auckland sure sounds like a nice place to live.

Auckland is calm. Seriously. I love living in a country where EVERY murder makes the news. Shit like this goes on in Glasgow, Manchester, London, Liverpool etc. every day and most of the time the guy who killed the tagger/burgler/car thief/mugger calls his mates, makes sure there are no witnesses and gets rid of the body - permanently. Most end up as cases of missing persons.

Auckland is a nice place to live when you look at some other first world cities.

I could talk about living in the third world. If we lived in the middle east the fella could have just called the police - they would have happily killed the person fro destruction of property - cut his hands off first too if he had stolen the spray paint.