Ray Shearman - whaaaaaaaaat?

[xwhatsit]

The fuel thing is an important point. We've lost the one thing we could point at and say we are a valid alternative to cars because we use less fuel, mainly because motorcyclists want performance or tradition above all else.

Speak for yourself -- I'm just guessing here on a graph I vaguely recall from a year ago, but I'd be willing to bet `most' motorcyclists out and about on roads every day are commuters on GN250s and GPX250s.

That's kind of what makes me a bit shitty about all of this, the fact that we're all lumped in together, along with the 35-50yr-old GSXR squids losing limbs and breaking collarbones.

Of course I'm a perfect rider

[Big Dave]

There's no point ranting about the administrator of a regional arm of the National Racing body. Someone plucked a name with "motorcycle" in it out of the phone book and asked an old man to make a comment for all NZ motorcyclists.

The fuel thing is an important point. We've lost the one thing we could point at and say we are a valid alternative to cars because we use less fuel, mainly because motorcyclists want performance or tradition above all else.

Yep - A professional spokesperson with media training, presenting a rational and informed view would be good.

Particularly if he/she was presenting an agreed on and published position.

[oldrider]

The fuel thing is an important point. We've lost the one thing we could point at and say we are a valid alternative to cars because we use less fuel, mainly because motorcyclists want performance or tradition above all else.

I think the point made by BRONZ in Kiwi Rider magazine recently about the reduction in "congestion" was very valid.

It is not so cheap to run my bike but my bike definately takes up a lot less space than my truck or car!

More bikes, less congestion but of course shit would still happen, so the critics would simply focus on the negatives of that..

I think negative "official attitudes" and the resulting "perceived attitudes of the public" are the most detrimental thing for motorcyclists!

Ray Shearman only added fuel to their fire with "his" invalid negative comments, IMHO!

Add to that, the negative image some motorcyclists project and we are on a hiding to nothing in the public opion stakes!

Some of these public "zealots" think they do God's own work by trying to eliminate us! Bastards! John.

[Big Dave]

To me what BRONZ is about is safety and trying to get a fair deal for motorcyclists.

A voice at the decision table that speaks for a significant number of NZers in matters like the WRB eg.

[dipshit]

That is contemptible dribble.
The Policy statements are online.

Don't see much in here about anything...

http://www.bronz.org.nz/policy.html

And what they tell the media is something else altogether. Motorcyclists are still members of the public, so whatever public perception BRONZ tries to create, motorcyclists also end up buying it.

[Ocean1]

You're referring to ancient history in regard to your perception of motorcycle cop accidents. The technology alone has changed massively from BMWR65s and R80s, or CB650s.

Possibly not as much as it has from HQ Holdens to... fookin' near any 4 wheeler made this century. Pointless comparison anyway, unless you're looking at professional riders who ARE "properly trained" and those who ain't. The straight hrs on the road infer a level of experience few other rider groups would match, and that's gold, right there.

That's kind of what makes me a bit shitty about all of this, the fact that we're all lumped in together, along with the 35-50yr-old GSXR squids losing limbs and breaking collarbones.

If you want unadulterated risk stat's talk to an insurance company, they live and die by 'em. As it happens the premiums for those old squids are typically somewhat lower than those for young commuters.

And yeah, I ain't happy about being lumped into the "imperfect" pile either.

[Mikkel]

Nothing except exemplary road user behaviour from motorcyclists is going to help change the perception that we're just a bunch of hedonistic dickwads.

What do I do if I am a hedonistic dickwad and despite that value my integrity?

so far sitting at 80% yes.

What do they mean by taking more risk?

Is that risky maneuvers of our own making, or taking risk, simply by being on the road with cell phone texting, 45 yo menopausal drivers in 4x4's?

It doesn't matter - it's a poll. Even worse, it's an online poll. Nothing more pointless in this existence than online polls - with the possible exception of online petitions.

I wouldn't worry too much. Nothing is likely to change - except ACC levies going up, but we all know that they would always ever increase whether we all behaved like saints or not.

Trying to organise bikers is just like trying to pitchfork ball-bearings.

...or herding cats. You deserve bling for that analogy, but I've got to spread some around...

To me what BRONZ is about is safety and trying to get a fair deal for motorcyclists.

That may be, I've read a couple of the BRONZ articles in KiwiRider and I must say I wrote BRONZ off as being some sort of grumpy dinosaur with a chip on its shoulder. I can only hope I am mistaken in that regard since that would be the last thing we'd want to represent us in this day an age.

[jafar]

Should we as a body devise testing and training regime that targets new and returning riders and asks for a 5 yearly re-test for all motorcyclists? Submit it to Government to show that we do get it and we want to fix it?

Because how it works at the moment isn't.

Your a SPY for the ACC arn't you !!
Giving the gibberment more ammunition to take away our freedom's is NOT the answer. Now if you were asking for 5 yearly retesting of everyone then we would be getting somewhere.

Trying to organise bikers is just like trying to pitchfork ball-bearings.

True that, just look @ the total lack of progress we have made with the "Cheese cutter protests "

Some of these public "zealots" think they do God's own work by trying to eliminate us! Bastards! John.

Yep & some of them work for the gibberment

[AD345]

Bloody rain

Purely out of boredom I've scrounged up some actual data on motorcycle crashes and numbers of us out there on the road.

The dates don't completely correlate but it doesn't appear that thing are getting any less safe. It would appear that 2008 is going to be a bit of an anomaly but there is some highly selective reporting of statistics going on by all parties

Have a look and make your OWN mind up:

Here

and here

[xwhatsit]

If you want unadulterated risk stat's talk to an insurance company, they live and die by 'em. As it happens the premiums for those old squids are typically somewhat lower than those for young commuters.

Yeah -- risk stats for GT250Rs and CBR250RRs falling off the sidestand and needing a $2000 set of fairings, or noobs washing the front wheel out trying to stop while going round a roundabout at 20kph in the wet, snapping the gear lever off. Well, it would be the gear lever if they were riding Brit bikes or we all drove on the right.

Quite a different type of risk than what ACC deals with.

[Big Dave]

That may be, I've read a couple of the BRONZ articles in KiwiRider and I must say I wrote BRONZ off as being some sort of grumpy dinosaur with a chip on its shoulder. I can only hope I am mistaken in that regard since that would be the last thing we'd want to represent us in this day an age.

I see blokes and blokettes standing out in the middle of an airstrip in all conditions giving up their sundays to help people ride safer.

I see volunteers giving up their evenings to prepare submissions to ACC.

I see the same bunch of sincere and well intentioned folks turn up at the meetings and do what they can to try and make the vehicles and their governance safer and fairer.

And quite a lot of others grizzling about it (don't mean you Mikkel) . Bring back Lou!

[smoky]

I'll provide the stats alright.

Waiting..........!

not to toss words around like "arrogant".

try not to class every motorcyclist as ill-disciplined, what makes you such an expert on how the majority of us ride, feel free to comment on you and your riding mates, feel free to criticise those who ride like you describe, but it is arrogance to then presume you know that 'most motorcyclists' ride like that.

You're referring to ancient history in regard to your perception of motorcycle cop accidents. The technology alone has changed massively from BMWR65s and R80s, or CB650s.

So have our bikes improved - so what's your point?
Fact is we don't have facts
You're entitled to your opinion - but it's just your opinion; you think cops can ride better than normal motorcyclists! I don't agree, I also don't see how it matters in this thread.

You also think most motorcyclists are ill disciplined and ride illegally - that's your opinion, and I disagree.
I think the vast majority of motorcyclists are actually well behaved.

[The Stranger:Me]

That may be, I've read a couple of the BRONZ articles in KiwiRider and I must say I wrote BRONZ off as being some sort of grumpy dinosaur with a chip on its shoulder. I can only hope I am mistaken in that regard since that would be the last thing we'd want to represent us in this day an age.

I can only hope you will get off your arse and ensure BRONZ presents itself to your high standards.

[Kickaha]

MNZ is a racing body isn't it?

Yes it is and Ray is a senior steward

Silly old cunt. John.

That "silly old cunt" does a shitload for Competition motorcyclist and has for deacdes,there'd be very few people racing in the south island who haven't ever dealt with him, he can be a hard man to deal with but always fair

personally I think you're a silly old cunt yourself for slaggin him off

The ol’ man should've said he was not qualified to speak on behalf of all motorcyclists - and kept his opinion to himself, unless he had something intelligent to say

Did he say he was speaking on behalf of all motorcyclists? can't see that stated anywhere in that article, perhaps you can point it out to me?

like anyone else he's allowed an opinion whether you agree with it or not

His statement about females on Stuff was simply stating his own experiences, no where else in that article did he place the blame for any other accidents on females

You also think most motorcyclists are ill disciplined and ride illegally - that's your opinion, and I disagree.
I think the vast majority of motorcyclists are actually well behaved.

My opinion is contrary to yours, I think they're the most ignorant, aggorant pack of road users out there

[smoky]

Did he say he was speaking on behalf of all motorcyclists? can't see that stated anywhere in that article, perhaps you can point it out to me?

like anyone else he's allowed an opinion whether you agree with it or not

He didn’t – but when a journalist rings you for an opinion as the Canterbury regional co-ordinator of Motorcycling New Zealand, you should know that your personal opinion will be reported as such, and answer appropriately.

opinion is contrary to yours, I think they're the most ignorant, aggorant pack of road users out there

How come you guys have such a poor impression of your selves???
You should change who you’re riding with