Ray Shearman - whaaaaaaaaat?

[oldrider]

Yes it is and Ray is a senior steward



That "silly old cunt" does a shitload for Competition motorcyclist and has for deacdes,there'd be very few people racing in the south island who haven't ever dealt with him, he can be a hard man to deal with but always fair

Don't know him from a bar of soap, only know that he came on the radio and gave his impressions/opinions (willingly) for all to hear and "I" did not like what I heard him say!

personally I think you're a silly old cunt yourself for slaggin him off Fair enough



Did he say he was speaking on behalf of all motorcyclists? can't see that stated anywhere in that article, perhaps you can point it out to me?

Got that impression on the radio but that may have been the interviewer

like anyone else he's allowed an opinion whether you agree with it or not

Then he should be ready to take the consequences when he expresses them in public!

His statement about females on Stuff was simply stating his own experiences, no where else in that article did he place the blame for any other accidents on females

Made this one pretty clear on the radio too!

My opinion is contrary to yours, I think they're the most ignorant, aggorant pack of road users out there

I refer you to my second post on this thread, there are too many people slagging off motorcyclists and I believe he contributed to their agenda.

I consulted my lawyer over "you" calling me a silly old cunt (above) but alas he agreed with you!

There will be no case to answer, so relax, enjoy your break! Cheers John.

[Big Dave]

I don't think he's silly or old.

[candor]

Interesting thread. It doesn't take money or great professional PR advice. I'd say just appoint a spokesperson or 2 you all trust, get a 10 commandments of soundbytes (say for 5 year repetitive use) that congeal into a "nice biker brand" for any foreseeable situation, documented for quick reference.... and get yourselves in the transport or crime journos little black books. Assert - phone them (well prepped) and offer input if a hot story occurs you need representation or comment on. They can only say No, but often won't if under pressure to meet deadline with an interesting piece.

Who they gonna call - instead of casting round. Ensure it's obvious. KB for contacts! The site is pretty famous as of l8 likely giving it media cred - and where else is such a cross section found? Look how Sensible Sentencing and LTNZ have some very familiar stock phrases... I can't think instantly of much like that reflecting biker rights, responsibility or safety.

The thing to fear most is the 10 year road safety plan (dictatorship) about to be announced in the New Year. It would be good for all interest groups to be well prepared to fight back, with strong swift and devastating strikes. IMO it's a matter of wearying them down, instead of letting them do it to ya'

[Kickaha]

I don't think he's silly or old.

depends what you call old I guess, but from my dealings with him certainly not silly
http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/feat...e/raypplus.htm

[Big Dave]

depends what you call old I guess, but from my dealings with him certainly not silly
http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/feat...e/raypplus.htm

Keep up will ya - I was talking about John! (Sometimes it's in what you don't say)

Mr Shearman I suspect was ambushed. It sells clicks.

[k14]

Yeah Ray is a good old bastard, puts in hours and hours just for the love of the sport. He isn't however a media relations person. He calls a spade a spade and in this pc world that is a no no. Whoever called him should be shot. Typical journalists...

[Usarka]

I don't agree at all - I would say the vast majority of people I ride with are safe riders 90% of the time - we all get it wrong now and then - but I think car drivers actually make more mistakes on the road than the average bike rider! But again no statistic, just my experience. But where do you get off being our moral judge and declaring us all unsafe on the road!!!

People who really do break fewer road rules per hour riding a bike than they do a car aren't usually aren't the personality types that argue on internet forums

The issues isn't how safe or unsafe we are, it is how safe we are perceived to be in comparison to other road users.

IIMO it's a matter of wearying them down, instead of letting them do it to ya'

Illegitimi non carborundum.

[Big Dave]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

That's rather abrasive.

[Paul in NZ]

Look - this is all good, we are talking about it at least.

I put up some recent data in a thread a while back and mentioned I had coffee with these folks. They seemed genuine in their concerns and I think would respond to proactive action.

Does anyone have some sensible suggestions on how to reduce motorcycle accidents and injury rates? Please note I don't care a fig for blame here but rather I'm interested in laws or schemes that could work.

What about a graduated license scheme for those returning to riding?

What about power to weight ratio's?

What about a special license for bikes over 120bhp based on extra training?

What about an acc / insurance rebate for non accident periods?

[Slyer]

Education is the best.
I think they're doing a pretty good job with Ride Forever but they should incorporate a lot of this stuff into the testing itself.
http://www.rideforever.co.nz/

Theory tests should need to be redone every 10 years or so to ensure that everyone is up to date with the current rules and advice.

[Usarka]

Will the current accident stats suffice to show any improvements due to said initiatives?

Or are farm, off-road recreational, and road accidents still lumped into the same basket? No point changing something if it can't be measured accurately is my point, that's all.......

[Ocean1]

I put up some recent data in a thread a while back and mentioned I had coffee with these folks. They seemed genuine in their concerns and I think would respond to proactive action.

And I asked you to pass on a rude message. Wasn't fair I know, but my point was that as long as ACC averages the cost of risk across it's "clients" nobody is going to give a damn about the consequences of poor behaviour. It's an artificial market, don't expect the outcomes to make sense.

Of course, if the system was structured otherwise only the wealthy could afford to ride. And that ain't fair.

What about a graduated license scheme for those returning to riding?

Common steriotype eh? Is there hard data to suggest these dudes are more expensive to cover? If not why penalise them with more market "corrections".

What about power to weight ratio's?

Believe something similar is in the pipeline. Not sure if there's a substantive valid link to injury rates.

What about a special license for bikes over 120bhp based on extra training?

As above.

What about an acc / insurance rebate for non accident periods?

Now that I like.

One of my pet peeves is the lack of alternatives for "non-road-legal" motorcycle activities. Was a time when clubs were stronger, events were easier to get into. ACC and the RMA are arguably the biggest impediments to that. How about we ask them to at least back off wrt access to and legislation relating to tracks, sealed and otherwise.

[Oakie]

Does anyone have some sensible suggestions on how to reduce motorcycle accidents and injury rates? Please note I don't care a fig for blame here but rather I'm interested in laws or schemes that could work.

What about a graduated license scheme for those returning to riding?

What about power to weight ratio's?

What about a special license for bikes over 120bhp based on extra training?

What about an acc / insurance rebate for non accident periods?

All good ideas but unfortunately you could go through all these and in many cases it still comes down to relying on a rider's self-control. I think it's attitudes that need to be addressed, not just skill levels ... and how you effectively do that I just don't know.

[Ixion]

Look - this is all good, we are talking about it at least.

I put up some recent data in a thread a while back and mentioned I had coffee with these folks. They seemed genuine in their concerns and I think would respond to proactive action.

Does anyone have some sensible suggestions on how to reduce motorcycle accidents and injury rates? Please note I don't care a fig for blame here but rather I'm interested in laws or schemes that could work.

What about a graduated license scheme for those returning to riding?

What about power to weight ratio's?

What about a special license for bikes over 120bhp based on extra training?

What about an acc / insurance rebate for non accident periods?

OK.

Graduated scheme for those returning to riding? The Sheeple did much work on that a while ago, the papers are in the public domain. Problem is , how do you establish someone hasn't been riding? And, how MUCH riding is enough to keep it 'current'? Once around the block once a year? They though of all sorts of schemes : lapsing licences after so many years (of what?); retests, not so much for pass/fail, just on the basis that those who weren't riding wouldn't resit; basing it on owning a registered bike: all had major difficulties of practicality or fairness : think about them a bit. And where is the EVIDENCE that the problem is the dreaded BAB? He has become an urban myth, I'm far from convinced that he is the one we need to look at.

Power/weight? Well, that is the GDLS (or will be after the latest proposed revamp). How many graduations can you apply before it gets out of hand. And the more complex you make it, the more it will be ignored. Vast numbers already ignore the 250cc limit.

Special licence? Why not simply toughen up the existing licence, for eveyone ?

Discounts, rebates, flies in the face of the whole ACC model

The problem with all of these is that they will ONLY work on the people you are NOT trying to affect. The people who are crashing are not on KB. They don't go to RRRS courses. They won't learn on a 250 (or any other restricted bike). Like as not they don't have a bike licence at all - or even ANY licence. At present , Joe, who's never ridden a bike, but is bored with his Subaru Pffart Turbo can wander into a bike shop and buy a mean as Harley . He doesn't have a bike license, and in fact he's disqualified for DIC anyway. But, how hard can it be eh? And this bike thing is cool, you can overtake people easy as.And it's way cool to take the ho up to the pub for a few bevvies. Easier to get away from the pigs if they try to stop you than a car, too. Do you really think Joe is going to take any notice at all of any new rules?

Helpful suggestions, instead of pointing out flaws. I don't like solutions based on punsihment, but one thing that would probably help would be MAJOR increases in penalties for driving on a "wrong" licence.But it would have to be really major.

And concomitantly MAJOR toughening up of the driving tests, and make then a DRIVING test not a road code test. Also, (I REALLY hate to say this) provision for X hours instruction by a registered instructor. To stop the "Get the licence, never ride, and after 18months you can get your full" problem.

With some "break the rules you go back to square one" stuff along the way.

But I don't really think any of that would make a lot of difference. The biggest difference between riders who will (with just a little luck) survive , and be riding for many years to come, and those who will (unless they get real lucky) crash their way through a few years, then either die; or be too injured to ride; or realise that motorbikes are gay and give it away , is not skill, not a bit of plastic, not even experience. It's ATTITUDE.

I see new members come along here. I find I can very quickly pick the stayers from the crashers. Just by their posts without even meeting them. Of course, a few start out as crashers, then have an epiphany and turn into stayers. That's good. Never goes the other way though.

So , if you really wanted a practical suggestion for the ACC : I'd extend the GDLS schema wee bit . BHS test MUCH tougher , and requiring X hours of formal instruction ; 6L - limited to 125cc single cylinder , 50kph area (yeah, tough), for 3 months ; 6R limited to 400 cc twin cylinder or 650cc single (and some power to weight limits) for 18 months (400cc shouldn't make it TOO insufferable); 6P limited to something like a 650cc twin or 400cc four,put some P/W in to stop the smart guys, for 2 years, but none of the curfew and such like stuff ; 6A as present 6F. Much tougher tests with some sort of psychological aspect CONDUCTED BY PEOPLE WHO RIDE (the abysmal idiocy of the present system is highlighted by the fact that a class 6 tester doesn't have to have a class 6 licence himself !). Preferably, by bikie cops or something similar. One of the worst things that ever happened with regard to bike safety was turning the testing over to glorified clerks. The length of time before Wayne the accountant can ride that harley will put him off (quick : sell your AMPS shares!). But the revised 6R and 6P classes provide machines quite adequate for genuine bikers, even those who want to take pillions .

Speaking of which, noticed how many pillions get killed ? So, either ban pillions, or have a licence endorsement for them .

Severe penealties for breaching those conditions. And , anyone with a current class 6F has one year to apply to switch it to the new 6A. No tests, but a moderate fee (I'm thinking maybe $100 - low enough that dedicated bikers can afford it, but the 'hang onto it in case I ever want it' folk will think it's not worth it).

At the end of the year, any unswitched 6Fs automatically turn into 6Ps. That doesn't seem to unfair, or impractical . And will winnow out the BAB issue.

AND - bring in a similar scheme for class 1. Both for fairness and because a lot of bike casualties really are down to stupid cagers. They gloat about the fact that they are not killing themselves, but they gloss over the fact that they are still killing us.

Dedicated motorbike lanes. Like cycle lanes. In fact they could be the same lanes! Bugger all psyclists ever use them. They wouldn't mean much to the sprotsbikers, but they would cut back a lot on injuries to the 50ccc pscootists. Very little cost, and easy to implement.

Oh, and make the 50cc moped crowd sit at least the revised BHS test. Yes, it will be inconvenient. Tough

Make an "Motorcycle impact assessment" a mandatory part of all road renovations or new roads. (F'instance , DON'T cover the only practical bike line with white paint and steel manhole covers. With some actual riders to provide input - not clerks )

Shit, I could write pages on this stuff. And have , over the years. All of which has steadfastly been ignored by the Sheeple and TPTB. As will any suggestion you (or any of us put forward). They are not interested in suggestions to reduce the casualty rate , because that would reduce the effectiveness of their campaign against us.

The reality is that the Sheeple hate us. They always have and they always will. And nothing we can do or say oir suggest will ever change that fact.

[Slyer]

Nearly 4 years before one can ride a big bike? Don't you think thats a bit extreme?
Agree with most the rest of it though.