Two bikes down near Akaroa 27/12 (fatality)

**Ixion** · 4th January 2009, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJRider

What may be a perfectly safe place to pass on a high powered motorcycle/car, may not be in/on a less powerful machine, or with a lessexperienced rider/driver.

A screaming obvious fact that seems to escape some people on here.

(And some who drive said low powered cars etc)

Firstly, the logical conclusion of that is that overtaking can only be permitted where it would be safe for Farmer Giles on his tractor , maximum speed 15kph. Which is to say, never.

But there is also a logical defect. The proliferation of yellow lines in recent times are (almost) always where there were none before. So, in the past the piece of road was reckoned safe to overtaking (I shall exclude those from the argument where it was always unsafe , because of a bend or whetever; and the yellow lines merely reinforce the prohibition. There are not many such). Now, almost all vehicles now have MORE power than in the past. So , how come it was safe all those years , safe for Granpa in his Morrie Minor, top speed 70mph; but now suddenly it not safe for Gramna in her 200kph Corrolla ? Vehicles have gotten more powerful, not less. There should by your logic be MORE places where passing is safe, not less.

**FJRider** · 4th January 2009, 15:21

Originally Posted by 96 600ss

lol,please don't read anything from me then,i quit school before end of school c year.

interesting numbers jantar,thanks

Hitcher is KB's version of spellcheck...

**piston broke** · 4th January 2009, 15:24

ixion,don't forget grandma is commin at you at 200k's as well

**quickbuck** · 4th January 2009, 15:34

Originally Posted by 96 600ss

ixion,don't forget grandma is commin at you at 200k's as well

That is why you don't ever overtake coming up to a blind corner, as Grandma's Corolla might be on 18's with no springs in it, and handle like Timo Glock's F1 car..... Or worse... Could me a right hander, and they drift onto your side of the road......

**FJRider** · 4th January 2009, 15:35

Originally Posted by Ixion

Firstly, the logical conclusion of that is that overtaking can only be permitted where it would be safe for Farmer Giles on his tractor , maximum speed 15kph. Which is to say, never.

But there is also a logical defect. The proliferation of yellow lines in recent times are (almost) always where there were none before. So, in the past the piece of road was reckoned safe to overtaking (I shall exclude those from the argument where it was always unsafe , because of a bend or whetever; and the yellow lines merely reinforce the prohibition. There are not many such). Now, almost all vehicles now have MORE power than in the past. So , how come it was safe all those years , safe for Granpa in his Morrie Minor, top speed 70mph; but now suddenly it not safe for Gramna in her 200kph Corrolla ? Vehicles have gotten more powerful, not less. There should by your logic be MORE places where passing is safe, not less.

To quote a friend... Bullshit. Faster more powerful cars/bikes are coming toward you, giving less time to pass, with greater possible impact speeds. All with the possibility of Granpa in his Morrie Minor still in the passing equation. And if he sees no yellow lines... he may think it is safe to pass. AND DOES. What may be seen as a perfectly safe manouver... turn to shit real quick.
Remember, wrong side of the road is half the equation of "wrong place wrong time"...your time may well be up.

**Ixion** · 4th January 2009, 15:56

Originally Posted by FJRider

To quote a friend... Bullshit. Faster more powerful cars/bikes are coming toward you, giving less time to pass, with greater possible impact speeds. All with the possibility of Granpa in his Morrie Minor still in the passing equation. And if he sees no yellow lines... he may think it is safe to pass. AND DOES. What may be seen as a perfectly safe manouver... turn to shit real quick.
Remember, wrong side of the road is half the equation of "wrong place wrong time"...your time may well be up.

Bullshit (to quote your friend). The cars in granpa's day were oncoming at 90kph (55 mph) . Now they are oncoming at 100 kph. Bugger all difference. Unless they are breaking the speed limit. In which case there is no knowing what they were doing then, or now. As for "if he sees no yellow lines he may think it is safe to pass". This is utter nonsense (though I suspect it is the logic of the insane yellow paint maniac". It has always been the rule (since I have been riding anyway), that there were very well known (and legislated) rules about when it was safe (or not)s to pass : not on blind bends; not on blind hill tops; not into oncoming traffic; all of them being specifics of the general case of requiring 100 yards (metres) of clear road visble through the pass , including at its end. It has NEVER been the case that "no yellows = safe to pass". Wasn't then , isn't now. Only a suicidal idiot would make that assumption.

So, if there was enough clear road for Granpa, in his Morrie to pull out and pass and back in (taking however many minutes that took), and he still have 100 metres of clear road visible throughout, how come there isn't now , when Granma's Coroalla takes seconds instead of minutes? The road's the same only thing changed is that now the pass takes less time, not more.

**Ixion** · 4th January 2009, 15:57

Originally Posted by 96 600ss

ixion,don't forget grandma is commin at you at 200k's as well

Noone has suggested that anyone should overtake into oncoming traffic. With or without yellow lines.

**FJRider** · 4th January 2009, 16:15

Seeing how some believe it IS, or at least can be safe to pass on yellow lines, and you say no yellow means it isn't always safe, highlights different opinions on what is safe.
One rider believed it was safe to pass. it wasn't.
Each and every road is safe if treated with respect. As is treating every OTHER road user... even the ones you are not immediately aware of... with similar respect.

**davereid** · 4th January 2009, 16:29

Originally Posted by FJRider

Seeing how some believe it IS, or at least can be safe to pass on yellow lines, and you say no yellow means it isn't always safe, highlights different opinions on what is safe.
One rider believed it was safe to pass. it wasn't.
Each and every road is safe if treated with respect. As is treating every OTHER road user... even the ones you are not immediately aware of... with similar respect.

You may have a very karma and cool personality. I wish I did, but I don't. When I come up behind a driver doing 70 in a 100 zone, chatting to the missus, and with rear-view mirrors that give him a view of the sky, its not long before i want to pass.

But if I am traveling on SH1 between Levin and Paraparaumu, I can't pass him anymore. This is because virtually the entire road has become a set of no passing lines. There are a couple of passing lanes thank goodness. Sadly, Grandad will spot them too, and accelerate briskly to the speed limit.

So, yes I'm bad. I'll pass Grandad, based entirely on my judgement.

I'm very keen to stay alive.

I try very hard to be sure that I havent made a mistake.

But the yellow lines that used to tell me judgement was flawed have gone, replace with another type of yellow lines. Yellow lines that are just an indicator of the approximate centerline.

I sincerely believe that the road toll would go down if motorists had ample safe opportunity to pass safely.

To my mind, drivers in the LHS of a passing lane should be restricted to a maximum of 70 km/hr, and those in the RHS lane a minimum of 110.

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 4th January 2009, 16:36

Originally Posted by FJRider

The absence of yellow lines does not mean passing is safe either... regardless of what you're piloting...

thats what I have said and I say as well... however going by what LeMans said... the biker had completed the over taking manouver already...

**FJRider** · 4th January 2009, 16:53

Originally Posted by davereid

You may have a very karma and cool personality. I wish I did, but I don't. When I come up behind a driver doing 70 in a 100 zone, chatting to the missus, and with rear-view mirrors that give him a view of the sky, its not long before i want to pass.

But if I am traveling on SH1 between Levin and Paraparaumu, I can't pass him anymore. This is because virtually the entire road has become a set of no passing lines. There are a couple of passing lanes thank goodness. Sadly, Grandad will spot them too, and accelerate briskly to the speed limit.

So, yes I'm bad. I'll pass Grandad, based entirely on my judgement.

I'm very keen to stay alive.

I try very hard to be sure that I havent made a mistake.

I sincerely believe that the road toll would go down if motorists had ample safe opportunity to pass safely.

To my mind, drivers in the LHS of a passing lane should be restricted to a maximum of 70 km/hr, and those in the RHS lane a minimum of 110.

A strong sense of self-preservation helps. Any passing manouver, by any motorist, is based entirely on their good judgment. There are some that lack this most basic requirement.
No more laws should be necessary as the law regarding "impeding the flow of traffic" should cover it. Sadly not a well known or well policed one. Impatience could be the death of some people...

**Katman** · 4th January 2009, 16:57

And lets not forget that passing on sections with limited visibility carries the risk of meeting oncoming motorcyclists treating the road like a racetrack thereby dramatically reducing the perceived available distance.