Two bikes down near Akaroa 27/12 (fatality)

[Patrick]

But, when yellow lines are painted for tens of kilometres on end, as is now common...

None around here. None in Auckland. Can imagine it on SH2 anywhere from the Bombays southwards. Where else?

....up here on a realitivly quiet road they have just put in 2 solid yellow lines that are on straight pieces of road with at least 400m clear view.
oh and they are about the only really safe passing spots on a 8+km road

and for some reason they are making a lot of good roads 80kph

What road would this be? (Having worked up there and all.....
)

Only a 400 clear view,? From the moment you think, OK, I will pass now coz it is all clear, get your speed going, overtake and return to your lane, will take how long?

Then cut that in half, because of the oncoming vehicle travelling at the same speed - or less if it is going quicker...). The 400 "clear visibility" is no longer 400. 200 at best.....

Do you get where this is heading to?

[Patrick]

Just because an accident occurred in a particular place does not make that an inherintly dangerous place to pass. Accidents have occurred due to poor motorway lane changing. Are you going to ban lane changes on the Motorway?

Who says it was due to "an" accident? Changes occur usually because of multiple instances.....

As for the rest, accidents occur because of speed, alcohol, poor overtaking, failure to stop or give way... just to name a few. Unsafe lane changes are illegal. Your (silly) point is?

[swbarnett]

Yeah, and the next thing they'll ignoree stop signs, traffic-lights, give ways and driving on the left too....

Let the anarchy (and carnage) begin.

What I'm talking about are things that any half-way intelligent driver can see have no basis in logic. Stop sings and traffic lights etc. have a logical basis.

As soon as some yellow lines go in where it is perfectly safe to pass if done properly the others that should be there lose their credibility and will be ignored.

Don't expect people to act a certain way just because someone in power says so. Any instruction to the general public must be seen to be logical.

[swbarnett]

Who says it was due to "an" accident? Changes occur usually because of multiple instances.....

As for the rest, accidents occur because of speed, alcohol, poor overtaking, failure to stop or give way... just to name a few. Unsafe lane changes are illegal. Your (silly) point is?

My point is that unsafe lane changing does not lead to the banning of all lane changing. Unsafe overtaking is also illegal. But this does sometimes result in the banning of ALL overtaking, safe or otherwise.

[scumdog]

WAny instruction to the general public must be seen to be logical.

Who to?
The mythical 'average' person?

At least half will be below average, hence what might be logical to you? and I won't be to those ones.

[piston broke]

What road would this be? (Having worked up there and all.....
)



Do you get where this is heading to?

ww to snells,
ww to matakana,this being the one i use more,as you know it is mostly straights.
the worst thing tho is that it has made people go even slower than they need too,often now you will be stuck behind people doin 60/70 kph

yep i get where you are headed,tho if i'm goin to pass someone i'm ready to go the second i'm sure of clear road.bike or v8, i get past asap and back on my side.i mean if you needed 400m+ to pass there wouldn't be to many places to pass anywhere.

[swbarnett]

Who to?
The mythical 'average' person?

It is a tennet of the justice system that "Justice must be seen to be done". It is not enough that justice is done, it must be visible to anyone that cares to look. The same goes for ANY law. If it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny a law has no place in the statutes.

[FJRider]

What I'm talking about are things that any half-way intelligent driver can see have no basis in logic. Stop sings and traffic lights etc. have a logical basis.

As soon as some yellow lines go in where it is perfectly safe to pass if done properly the others that should be there lose their credibility and will be ignored.

Don't expect people to act a certain way just because someone in power says so. Any instruction to the general public must be seen to be logical.

People do not always stop at stop signs, as do they not always obey traffic lights. The logic in that escapes me...
What may be a perfectly safe place to pass on a high powered motorcycle/car, may not be in/on a less powerful machine, or with a less experienced rider/driver.
As always... people ignore the laws that they believe don't and shouldn't apply to them. Or find "inconvenient" for them, at that time.

[scumdog]

What may be a perfectly safe place to pass on a high powered motorcycle/car, may not be in/on a less powerful machine, or with a lessexperienced rider/driver.

A screaming obvious fact that seems to escape some people on here.

(And some who drive said low powered cars etc)

[FJRider]

It is a tennet of the justice system that "Justice must be seen to be done". It is not enough that justice is done, it must be visible to anyone that cares to look. The same goes for ANY law. If it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny a law has no place in the statutes.

It is a tenet of the justice system, that "The laws of the land must be upheld". Not just the ones you like.

[Jantar]

....


Only a 400 clear view,? From the moment you think, OK, I will pass now coz it is all clear, get your speed going, overtake and return to your lane, will take how long?

A valid point Patrick, But is does depend on the speed and length of the vehicle that you wish to overtake.

However to answer your question, I shall assume I'm on my DL1000 which is an average performing bike, and I wish to pass a 5 m long vehicle travelling at 80 kmh (22 m/s) I shall start the manouver from 2 secs behind and calculate the distance to finish 2 seconds in front. I shall also assume 4th gear which is where my bike is most responsive in the range of 80 - 160 kmh and can easily achive 6 m/s^2.

In 3 seconds I have accellerated to 40 m/s (a comfortable passing speed) and covered 92 m. The vehicle I am passing has travelled 66 m so I am 18 m behind the front of the vehicle. In the next 1 second I am equal with the front of the vehicle, and 2 seconds later I am back to 28 m/s (100 km hr). The average speed during the manouver is 33.5 m/s and takes 6 seconds.
Total distance travelled to complete the manouver is 201 m and I am now 69m or 3 seconds ahead of the other vehicle.

I have also just lost my licence for 28 days for completing a passing manouver safely, in half the clear visiable distance ahead.

Then cut that in half, because of the oncoming vehicle travelling at the same speed - or less if it is going quicker...). The 400 "clear visibility" is no longer 400. 200 at best.....

Do you get where this is heading to?

I believe the math proves that it would be unsafe to attempt such a move with only 400m visibilty at the start unless the other vehicle is travelling at 80kmh or less. Maybe this is why the old road code asked for 300 yards clear visibility during the entire manouver.

However if the other vehicle is only doing 70 kmh then 400 m would be ample room to pass. The entire manouver would only take 182 m.

[Hitcher]

It is a tennant of the justice system,

Gahh! Tenet.

[FJRider]

The absence of yellow lines does not mean passing is safe either... regardless of what you're piloting...

[FJRider]

Gahh! Tenet.

English is my second language... I made a hash of my first...

bloody Yamaha riders...

[piston broke]

Gahh! Tenet.

lol,please don't read anything from me then,i quit school before end of school c year.

interesting numbers jantar,thanks