Melting tar

[slofox]

I have just fired off an email to NZTA asking them for info about the level of tar melt we have here....be interesting to see if they bother to reply...stay posted for further updates, folks!!!!

Had a reply this morning......

"Thank you for your email dated 9 February 2009.

I have forwarded your email to the appropriate department.


Regards

Contact Response Team"

Just had a reply from the techies at NZTA. Text as follows:

"The melting, or "bleeding", of bitumen on our road surfaces is generally caused by softness in the road pavement, which allows the stone chips on the road surface to be pushed into the pavement, and the bitumen that holds them on the road rising. This softness is most often caused by water getting into the pavement, but is aggravated by heavy traffic and is more prevalent in older pavements. Your observations about the situation in Australia are correct, but they have traditionally used bitumens that are less susceptible to bleeding. This is because they do not experience the same low temperatures in winter. Otherwise, their construction techniques are very similar to ours.

We have a national programme for recycling those pavements that persistently bleed in hot weather, and we are experimenting with bitumens that melt at a higher temperature to see how they handle winter temperatures. Our observations suggest that the incidence of bleeding this year was significantly less than last year.

If you would like to discuss the issue further, feel free to contact our National Operations Manager, Dave Bates on 04 894 6296 or on dave.bates@nzta.govt.nz.

Kind regards,"

So there ya go.

[vgcspares]

Interesting. I was coming along the same road myself (around noon-ish from memory) and the police told me that traffic was being diverted as a bike had gone down.
(

sadly three bikes went down one after another on exactly the same spot ... we don't believe however that there is any likelyhood of recovery from either the council or the last contractor to work on that particular stretch

[MSTRS:Me]

".... is more prevalent in older pavements. ..."

I would have to say "Oh, really?"
There isn't a single section of newly laid chipseal in/around Napier that hasn't bled and/or had the chip disappear.

[ckai]

I would have to say "Oh, really?"
There isn't a single section of newly laid chipseal in/around Napier that hasn't bled and/or had the chip disappear.

I would have to agree with you for the Waikato as well. It seems most of the old roads are holding find, it's the new sections that are bleeding badly.

Maybe it's because I'm riding these roads more but it seems to me this 'bleeding' business is a lot worse then other years. Kinda scares the shit out of you when you head into an uphill corner and the 'tar' is flowing downhill!

If bikers weren't such careful people, there would be a high of a lot more accidents

[slofox]

I would have to say "Oh, really?"
There isn't a single section of newly laid chipseal in/around Napier that hasn't bled and/or had the chip disappear.

I would have to agree with you for the Waikato as well. It seems most of the old roads are holding find, it's the new sections that are bleeding badly.

Maybe it's because I'm riding these roads more but it seems to me this 'bleeding' business is a lot worse then other years. Kinda scares the shit out of you when you head into an uphill corner and the 'tar' is flowing downhill!

If bikers weren't such careful people, there would be a high of a lot more accidents

Yep to both of you. I agree. Ckai, the section of SH39 between Ngaruawahia and Whatawhata was patched early this season and was a mass of melt last time I went through it. I have given that section away for the duration. Ditto for parts of the Kawhia road, Raglan road, Bucklands Road, Whitehall etc etc.
Only older roads? Bullshit.

[klingon]

... Our observations suggest that the incidence of bleeding this year was significantly less than last year...

I think it's up to us to report the bleeding bitumen whenever we find it! I wonder how systematic their observations are. I suspect they probably just count up the number of complaints they get at their call centre.

[ckai]

I think it's up to us to report the bleeding bitumen whenever we find it! I wonder how systematic their observations are. I suspect they probably just count up the number of complaints they get at their call centre.

To be honest, I never thought of reporting it. Dunno why, probably thinking that they wouldn't do anything about it. Maybe if I add "...and I f**ken crash my bike because of it" my get something done. Then again...maybe not haha

[Skyryder]

Short sighted bureaucrats making their yearly budgets look good.

Fucktards.

It's the tendering system. More profit with cheaper products. It's what we've got since rodgenomics ditched the MOW.




Skyryder

[Ixion]

That is pretty much correct.

There are various grades of compound. A contractor who tenders a cheap price to win the tender will always want to use the cheapest compound. The cheap compounds are the low melting ones. I am also told that it is common place to adulterate the bitumen compound with kerosene.

[Skyryder]

That is pretty much correct.

There are various grades of compound. A contractor who tenders a cheap price to win the tender will always want to use the cheapest compound. The cheap compounds are the low melting ones. I am also told that it is common place to adulterate the bitumen compound with kerosene.

I know someone who works in this field. Tar is a by product of producing coke by way of retort. They use something else. I see him fishing so I might make some enqiuies and see what has taken it's place.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

Bitumen. Transit as was get all hot and twisted if you call it tar. Bitumen. COmes from oil I understand. I can believe, goes back to oil readily enough too.

[MarkH]

One big problem I have is that the cheaper low quality bitumen (cheaper to surface a road with) can cost more in the long term, due to the road needing to be resurfaced when it all turns to goo - but it is done cheaply because it costs less of THIS YEARS budget. This short-sighted view can cost the tax payers more, but it keeps happening - the bureaucrats always seem to worry primarily about the current budget and take the view that repairs that would be needed in a few years are not a problem for today.

Do it right the first time vs do it within budget today (worry about the cost of fixing it later).

[munster]

but it is done cheaply because it costs less of THIS YEARS budget. This short-sighted view can cost the tax payers more, but it keeps happening - the bureaucrats always seem to worry primarily about the current budget

You would have loved the army, before end of budget every year we would get a weekend to let rip with all the left over blank & live ammo, because if we didn't use it all up this year, we wouldn't get as much next year.

It was the one weekend when all the terries turned up!

[cold comfort]

I think it's up to us to report the bleeding bitumen whenever we find it! I wonder how systematic their observations are. I suspect they probably just count up the number of complaints they get at their call centre.

Maybe they missed the tragic death of the Henderson teacher killed by "tar bleed" according to the police.

[Pixie]

Your observations about the situation in Australia are correct, but they have traditionally used bitumens that are less susceptible to bleeding. This is because they do not experience the same low temperatures in winter. [/email].

Kind regards,"[/I]

So there ya go.

This is bullshit.
The ACT,Victoria and the NSW Highlands all get colder temperatures than most of NZ