Paper roads

**jim.cox** · 11th March 2009, 13:04

Originally Posted by monchopper

Paper roads are paper roads.

Better then to refer to them as "unformed legal roads", which is exactly what they are.

They exist, and not just on paper

**XF650** · 11th March 2009, 15:31

Originally Posted by monchopper

Paper roads are paper roads. Requests don't have to be made, idiots are bound by the same transport laws that exist on sealed roads, although common sense could be exercised it's not a requirement (therein lies a big problem) If you deviate from the paper road you're trespassing.
If the forestry block you speak of has a paper road and a locked gate then thats illegally blocking a public road.

Gate has never been locked on the forest I'm refeering to. But neighbouring forest does lock their gates, effectively isolating their private tracks and any paper roads. Ironically I recently saw some shadey looking characters trying to force their way through, yet keys are available on request.
Seems the landowners in Monchopper's case have made a cock-up & aren't handling the situation very well. However I would still be working to get "on-side" with them, not "off-side".

Courtesy isn't compulsory but it's bound to help our cause for access in the long term. E.g. where a deviation onto private land is required because of condition of unmaintained paper road. Also 'unformed' paper roads are often hard to define & straying onto private land is inevitable.
Just last weekend Timg & I were riding a paper road along the tops of the Brothers Range in South Canterbury. The track soon became nothing more than faint wheel marks in the grass. Eventually even this was split by a fence and it was pot luck as to which side was the actual paper road. Local farmer turned up & informed us we were on his land, not the paper road. But no big deal, especially as I had notified him of our intentions earlier that day.

**XF650** · 11th March 2009, 15:35

Originally Posted by jim.cox

Better then to refer to them as "unformed legal roads", which is exactly what they are.

They exist, and not just on paper

Hopefuly coonyer will see this topic & comment - he's had experience with these issues.

**Ixion** · 11th March 2009, 16:38

The link contained in this post, on a similar subject , may be of utility and interest

**FJRider** · 11th March 2009, 17:45

If they cite "public safety" for the padlock, you might strike tresspas charges on entry... "removing" the padlock may result in intentional damage charges.

**junkmanjoe** · 11th March 2009, 19:23

in my aera, its just a mater of a few ph calls, to find the right person, ask to meet them, let them know what we are and what intend to do in there,( pass over land forest beach e.t.c ) and leave it as we find it, gates shut no rubbish, stay on the track, most cases, cockys are fine, some roads are maintaned, buy 4x4 clubs, d.o.c and ask for a donation to help keep the road useable. e.t.c
the hardest ones to gain access to are private maori land.

i make it very clear to land owners that we are NOT dirt bikers, just there to rip up the land.......
but a group of adventure riders just looking for passage to the other side.

cheers.

**pete376403** · 11th March 2009, 21:31

Originally Posted by FJRider

As I recall from similar "things" happening down this way, The land owner(s) either side of the "paper road" can apply to have this status revoked.... if they can prove low volume useage of vehicles make it unviable/unlikely to be made into a formed road... hence a locked gate.

Upper Hutt City Council tried this a while ago with some land in Whitemans Valley. A property developer wanted to offer some lifestyle blocks that inconveniently had a paper road running through the middle. Council was all gung-ho to have the road revoked so the developer could make heaps of money and of course the council would get all their fees and so on. Fortunately the local 4WD clubs managed to put a stop to it but it took a court case to get the final ruling.

**idb** · 12th March 2009, 07:32

Originally Posted by XF650

I think forestry owners & managers can be extra nervous about fire risk, .....

In my personal experience with a North Canterbury forest that's accessed by paper road, requesting vehicle access can be helped simply by asking in advance, with assurance that spark arrestors will be fitted, fire extinguisher carried......

I don't think they are really made of paper!!!!

**MXNUT** · 12th March 2009, 17:22

Originally Posted by Ixion

The link contained in this post, on a similar subject , may be of utility and interest

Is that Rd still open to the public now as i would be very keen to go and have a look.

**cooneyr** · 12th March 2009, 17:30

If the road is unformed how can you guarantee that you stay within the road reserve and not trespass on private land. Just last weekend wifey and I road a proper paper road in South Canterbury. Lucky this road is still open but even with a GPS and about three versions of the "line" on top of each other it was hard to know if we were on the road or the adjacent paddock at times. Also the physical track often meandered off the "line" and for the sake of minimising damage we stuck to the track but we were definitely trespassing.

A further point to note is that there is a difference between an unformed legal road and simply as parcel of land that looks like a road but is in fact a reserve or has some other legal status. Case in point the Lyttleton side of the bridal path is not longer a road even though the parcel looks like one The status was changed some time in the 1990's and there was attempts to change the CCC side at the same time, luckily it hasn't changed. The only sure way you can find out if a parcel of land is actually a a road is by obtaining a title (if one exists) or legal description from LINZ. No idea what it costs to do this but it wont be fast or cheep.

Cheers R

**Spyke** · 12th March 2009, 17:57

would be bloody good to have a map of all the paper roads so then we could all ride them, make them more well known to the adventurous people that have ridden all the normal roads.

**Paladin** · 12th March 2009, 19:05

Originally Posted by junkmanjoe

...........
i make it very clear to land owners that we are NOT dirt bikers, just there to rip up the land.......
but a group of adventure riders just looking for passage to the other side.

cheers.

You don't tell em you got mates on DT230's, DRZ400's and a certain rear wheel sliding nutter on a KLR with noisy exhaust who can all DO the Makairo in 30minutes riding with you then!

(nah, me neither!!!!

)

**monchopper** · 12th March 2009, 20:01

Originally Posted by cooneyr

If the road is unformed how can you guarantee that you stay within the road reserve and not trespass on private land. Just last weekend wifey and I road a proper paper road in South Canterbury. Lucky this road is still open but even with a GPS and about three versions of the "line" on top of each other it was hard to know if we were on the road or the adjacent paddock at times. Also the physical track often meandered off the "line" and for the sake of minimising damage we stuck to the track but we were definitely trespassing.

A further point to note is that there is a difference between an unformed legal road and simply as parcel of land that looks like a road but is in fact a reserve or has some other legal status. Case in point the Lyttleton side of the bridal path is not longer a road even though the parcel looks like one The status was changed some time in the 1990's and there was attempts to change the CCC side at the same time, luckily it hasn't changed. The only sure way you can find out if a parcel of land is actually a a road is by obtaining a title (if one exists) or legal description from LINZ. No idea what it costs to do this but it wont be fast or cheep.

Cheers R

Bloody complex issue this!!
I reckon just ride the f@ckers where possible, stay to the line where possible and if you stray off the 'legal line' who'll know, if you don't know with 100% certainty with a GPS then sure as shit no one else will, or give enough of a f@ck to make an issue of it. Besides the chances of someone standing there saying "that motorbike just rode off the legal line by 3 meters I think I'll sue the bastard" aren't that high.
If a land owner is that pedantic that he says the legal line differs from the formed track by a meter here or there and if you deviate from it he'll take legal action, then tell him you'll have 30 bikes here next weekend riding up and down the right line and we'll f@cking well rip a new track on the right line take your pick.
Not very PC I know. Sometimes you've fight when you're a man (K. Rodgers)

PS Copy of titles cost $8 from LINZ and take 48 hours

**cooneyr** · 13th March 2009, 12:30

Originally Posted by monchopper

.....
If a land owner is that pedantic that he says the legal line differs from the formed track by a meter here or there and if you deviate from it he'll take legal action, then tell him you'll have 30 bikes here next weekend riding up and down the right line and we'll f@cking well rip a new track on the right line take your pick....

See thats were we might disagree a just little bit (read a lot). The long term damage this does to the sport is not worth the 3 hours of fun. Take the other approach of getting into the good books of a few land owners and become known as a responsible bunch and you'll never know how many gates may be opened for you!

Cheers R