Look what the courier delivered today

[Ixion]

See now this is where a girl like me gets confused. I agree with you ,hence my wanting to know the minimum thickness spec for the plates, but I have been told not to worry about the springs. Hmmmmm. Preloading with washers seems a bit ummmmm sneaky. Ever had them fail?

I like your outlook too, my blue lovely is an older kinda of gal, and needs special treatment. She is not the high performance, race tech beast, that some have.

The washer trick's an old one. Used many a time by many. Will do no harm, may not do much good. Only thing is to make sure that you are not going to coil bind the spring - ie all movement used up and it is a solid thing. That will snap your cable quickish.

But I am puzzled. You speak of worn plates, which would manifest as slippage. But the you say

My clutch has no adjustment left, I am lucky to remain stationery with it fully engaged (well the lever pulled hard against the bars, fully adjusted anyway)

which implies drag. Which is the exact reverse! Is it slipping (bike won't go up hills, engine races, appears to have no power). Or dragging (won't go into gear, hard to get into neutral, creeps forward in first gear with clutch disengaged, gear changes clonk or are hard to make ) ?

You also said that you had to abandon it in Napier. I would not have thought that routine wear would manifest so severely as to make it impossible to limp home. A dragging clutch is a pain, but rideable (you can ride with no clutch at all). A slipping clutch will make for slow progress but gentled along it will get there .
h

[Mom]

but i like it hard! -

I like it hard too really.

The washer trick's an old one. Used many a time by many. Will do no harm, may not do much good. Only thing is to make sure that you are not going to coil bind the spring - ie all movement used up and it is a solid thing. That will snap your cable quickish.

But I am puzzled. You speak of worn plates, which would manifest as slippage. But the you say


which implies drag. Which is the exact reverse! Is it slipping (bike won't go up hills, engine races, appears to have no power). Or dragging (won't go into gear, hard to get into neutral, creeps forward in first gear with clutch disengaged, gear changes clonk or are hard to make ) ?

You also said that you had to abandon it in Napier. I would not have thought that routine wear would manifest so severely as to make it impossible to limp home. A dragging clutch is a pain, but rideable (you can ride with no clutch at all). A slipping clutch will make for slow progress but gentled along it will get there .
h

Ah well you see, it is dragging, using your diagnostic description. It was not left in Napier for the clutch though, It was far naughtier than that...LOL

I have no idea what the plates look like, hence the I am taking it apart to find out when I get it home. Might pick your technical brain when I do

[Ixion]

I like it hard too really.




Ah well you see, it is dragging, using your diagnostic description. It was not left in Napier for the clutch though, It was far naughtier than that...LOL

I have no idea what the plates look like, hence the I am taking it apart to find out when I get it home. Might pick your technical brain when I do

Dragging, check for worn release mechanism (often overlooked). Make sure no one has left the little ball out. Bent pushrod. Warped plates (friction and plain) . Worn gearbox bearings. Worn thrust bearing. Badly worn basket. Bent spring posts. Check that all washers and spacers are there, in the right places, the right way round (yes, there usually is a right and wrong way) and not overly warn. Check the brass bush usually to be found in the centre of the basket.

More severe derangements can manifest as clutch drag - bent or twisted crankshaft, bent gearbox main shaft , even a twisted frame. But these are very rare.

[Mom]

Dragging, check for worn release mechanism (often overlooked). Make sure no one has left the little ball out. Bent pushrod. Warped plates (friction and plain) . Worn gearbox bearings. Worn thrust bearing. Badly worn basket. Bent spring posts. Check that all washers and spacers are there, in the right places, the right way round (yes, there usually is a right and wrong way) and not overly warn. Check the brass bush usually to be found in the centre of the basket.

More severe derangements can manifest as clutch drag - bent or twisted crankshaft, bent gearbox main shaft , even a twisted frame. But these are very rare.

Thank you, I talked to the nice man at the dealers and he suggested the basket might be the problem, I am really looking forward to getting it to bits so I can check. At least now I have the exploded diagrams, and know the tolerances that I need to check for. Should be interesting. I am not considering the engine innards as a culprit at this stage *fingers crossed* and all that.

[zzzbang]

ok cool, i was going to buy new ones, but sod that! I'll buy 2nd hand ones! I need a specal holder tool and socket thing to undo my clutch tho, damn its tricky.

I'll aslo give george a call and see what he says, he might actually know what hes talking about.

You can always use a tyre lever to hold it from moving while undoing the bolt... but the last time i saw that technique being used the clutch needed some repairing

[Patch]

ffs - Use a rattle gun to undo the clutch basket retaining nut - no need for a clutch tool

The pics are for a different machine, but the procedure is basicly the same. It will at least give you some idea of what things look like.

Pic 1: 12 = pressure plate
21 = retaining nut
6,7,8 = fibre friction plate,
9,10,11 = clutch plate
4 = inner clutch basket (small one)
3 = outter clutch basket (big one)
Pic 2: a reversible homemade clutch tool
pic 3: outer clutch basket, inner clutch basket held by the retaining nut
pic 4: basket and plates
pic 5: torquing the pressure plate (check to see if your bike has the same torque values)


If you re-use the original clutch pack - remember to re-install all the plates in the same order as you disassembled them.
You can perform this job with the bike on its sidestand without draining the oil.

[munterk6]

I had a dragging clutch problem on a 88 GSXR750J recently, replaced friction plates, steel plates, clutch hub, and clutch basket all with brand new genuine parts(US$657) and the bloody thing still dragged!! Ended up selling it...you would think with a brand new clutch it would behave like a brand new clutch? NAH!!!!

[barty5]

ok cool, i was going to buy new ones, but sod that! I'll buy 2nd hand ones! I need a specal holder tool and socket thing to undo my clutch tho, damn its tricky.

I'll aslo give george a call and see what he says, he might actually know what hes talking about.

when your at the wreckers get an xtra steel plate for the clutch and weld a long bolt to each side to act as handles this will hold clutch special tool made.

[Mom]

I had a dragging clutch problem on a 88 GSXR750J recently, replaced friction plates, steel plates, clutch hub, and clutch basket all with brand new genuine parts(US$657) and the bloody thing still dragged!! Ended up selling it...you would think with a brand new clutch it would behave like a brand new clutch? NAH!!!!

Why then did it keep dragging?

Hey and Patch, thanks for your post, only one very slight problem, I dont have a rattle gun, I will be doing it the hard way I am afraid.

[Patch]

only one very slight problem, I dont have a rattle gun,

put some lippy on, batter your eyelids and ask your local tyre shop to undo it. Just take your own socket with ya - doubt they'll have the right size.

Or jusk ask someone here, I have the gear, but your miles away.

[Mom]

put some lippy on, batter your eyelids and ask your local tyre shop to undo it. Just take your own socket with ya - doubt they'll have the right size.

Or jusk ask someone here, I have the gear, but your miles away.

Good thinking batman, lippy and eyelashes should do the trick.

[Ixion]

Why then did it keep dragging?

Hey and Patch, thanks for your post, only one very slight problem, I dont have a rattle gun, I will be doing it the hard way I am afraid.

Sing out if you want me to drop by with compressor and rattle gun

I forgot one not uncommon cause of clutch drag: Someone trying to compensate for a worn, slipping clutch by putting washers under the springs. or using incorrect (longer) springs.

[Mom]

Sing out if you want me to drop by with compressor and rattle gun

I forgot one not uncommon cause of clutch drag: Someone trying to compensate for a worn, slipping clutch by putting washers under the springs. or using incorrect (longer) springs.

I have the compressor

Yeah, the proof of this one will be in the taking of it apart I think. Will whistle out when I get the bike back home. Thanks Ixion.

[MSTRS:Me]

Why then did it keep dragging?

Hey and Patch, thanks for your post, only one very slight problem, I dont have a rattle gun, I will be doing it the hard way I am afraid.

A clutch will drag (trying to creep forward when in gear with the clutch lever pulled in...or hard to get into neutral) if the plates are not releasing properly. Only 2 ways this can happen...1/. At least 1 steel plate and it's fibre mate are sticking together (warp?) or 2/. The mechanism that presses on the pressure plate is not fully depressing the pp (worn faces or incorrect cable adjustment).

Clutch plates below thickness will result in a slipping clutch (engines revs faster without the bike moving faster). Clutch springs below length will do the same. So will glazed plates. As will an incorrect oil.

Good score on the manual. It will be invaluable. You do know that Frosty is the XJ expert? Apparently.

[Patch]

Would pay to measure the clutch cable, depending on its age, it may have stretched some. Worn pushrods, don't help either.


On a side note, unless you plan to change the bearing under the clutch baskets - there is no need to take them off i.e. no need for the rattle gun, unless Yamaha has a different configuration to Suzuki. Just a thought.