Gunshop employee charged

**jrandom** · 12th December 2006, 14:41

Originally Posted by Ixion

... taking out a (believed to be) armed and dangerous criminal in the process of escaping sounds like a reasonable use of police fire power to me.

Agreed. Armed criminals shouldn't be able to get away scot-free by doing a runner in front of a gun muzzle. What's the point of giving the cops guns if they have to live by some bullshit 'fire only when attacked' rule? Recruitment would be a nightmare.

**mstriumph** · 12th December 2006, 15:47

Originally Posted by geoffm

......... 7-8 shots with buckshot is a damn sight more deadly than a 38 revolver.
..................
Geoff

------

AND plastic knitting needles ........just ask Qantas....

funny thing being that, after they'd nixed the knitting, they gave me a metal knife and fork to eat my [what-they-laughingly-refered-to-as] dinner with
-go figure!

hmmmmmmmmmmm they may be able to protect passengers from crazed knitters running amok in the isles with pink plastic knitting needles ....... but WHO's gonna protect them from AIRLINE FOOD???? now THAT'S the question!

**duncan_bayne** · 12th December 2006, 15:58

According to the Air NZ staff member I spoke with, Air NZ allows passengers to fly domestically with a kubotan attached to your keyring, provided the air security people let it through. I've never had any problem flying with one, but have never attempted to take one through the lone secure domestic gate in Auckland.

With a few exceptions (bomb detection being one), airport security is all about making people feel secure, & has no effect whatsoever on actual security.

In fact, no, that's wrong. It makes actual security worse, because people are lulled into thinking that because they're on an airliner they must be secure, so they can forget about taking precautions (like carrying a kubotan) and just drift off in condition white.

**Swoop** · 12th December 2006, 21:15

Originally Posted by Ixion

Perhaps not. But taking out a (believed to be) armed and dangerous criminal in the process of escaping sounds like a reasonable use of police fire power to me. I see no problem with the cops using a gun in such circumstances.

This instance appears to have another officer in the passenger seat of the vehicle trying to get the subject "in a headlock". Firing into the back of this vehicle could get your fellow officer shot.

**Ixion** · 12th December 2006, 21:21

Yes indeed. And whilst I have no problem with the cop using his gun to protect public safety and enforce the law (because I am not in the firing line) his hapless collegue may not be so happy. But that's the risks of the job I guess, though I suspect a few words were said back at the station. But that should be an internal matter within the force not a criminal charge.

**spudchucka** · 13th December 2006, 05:32

Originally Posted by Swoop

This instance appears to have another officer in the passenger seat of the vehicle trying to get the subject "in a headlock". Firing into the back of this vehicle could get your fellow officer shot.

Exactly! I'd be pretty pissed off if I was the cop that was inside the car.

And Glocks don't just go off accidentally when you fall over, unless you have your finger inside the trigger guard.

**spudchucka** · 13th December 2006, 05:39

Originally Posted by Ixion

Yes indeed. And whilst I have no problem with the cop using his gun to protect public safety and enforce the law (because I am not in the firing line) his hapless collegue may not be so happy. But that's the risks of the job I guess, though I suspect a few words were said back at the station. But that should be an internal matter within the force not a criminal charge.

No its not the risks of The Job! We need to be better than that.

No one goes to work accepting that they might be shot by one of their own colleagues and it most certainly isn't in any police job description that I've seen. Getting assaulted on the job is something that you need to be prepared for, getting shot or stabbed by an offender is becoming more of a regular occurence but it is in no way an acceptable risk.

My single most overwhellming duty when I go to work is to ensure that I finsh work in a state that allows me to remain breathing and to return home to my family upright.

**scumdog** · 13th December 2006, 07:09

Originally Posted by spudchucka

No its not the risks of The Job! We need to be better than that.

My single most overwhellming duty when I go to work is to ensure that I finsh work in a state that allows me to remain breathing and to return home to my family upright.

Too true - I have the same attitude - and if the other guy ends up worse for the wear due to his own course of action and poor choices then it's his bad luck.

**davereid** · 13th December 2006, 08:19

There seems to be a problem with senior police management. Not only do they prosecute joe citizen for protecting himself with a firearm, they also seem very quick to savage police officers.

For some reason we seem to be giving a disproportionate amount of care to the criminals.

Good luck to the cop.

**duncan_bayne** · 13th December 2006, 08:37

Originally Posted by davereid

For some reason we seem to be giving a disproportionate amount of care to the criminals.

For the same reason that we give so much stick to businessmen, & endless amounts of money to bludgers ... nowadays, people are punished for their virtues & rewarded for their flaws.

**jrandom** · 13th December 2006, 08:46

Originally Posted by Dynamytus50

Your a bunch of self righteous wankers... Go fuck yourself.

Nice rant! I didn't see anybody judging him, dude. Now chill.

Seriously, though, what would have happened if it'd played out like the final scene in 'Chinatown'?

**jrandom** · 13th December 2006, 10:11

I've been thinking about this.

If Al was justified in drawing his pistol and putting his finger on the trigger, we shouldn't second-guess his decision to fire.

Charging him is complete bullshit. We can't arm our police officers and then condemn them every time 20/20 hindsight reveals potential imperfections in their decision-making under stress. I for one am not going to pretend that I could have done any better.

I sincerely hope the charge against him is thrown out of court.

**NZHog** · 13th December 2006, 11:26

Hi Duncan,a Surefire Executive Elite will give you Kubotan capabilities & a VERY bright light. Much more possabilities available,granted for much more cost also.
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...1132/sesent/00

**spudchucka** · 13th December 2006, 11:30

Originally Posted by Fish

I've been thinking about this.

If Al was justified in drawing his pistol and putting his finger on the trigger, we shouldn't second-guess his decision to fire.

Charging him is complete bullshit. We can't arm our police officers and then condemn them every time 20/20 hindsight reveals potential imperfections in their decision-making under stress. I for one am not going to pretend that I could have done any better.

I sincerely hope the charge against him is thrown out of court.

Thats an insightfull approach to the situation.

Cops have to make split second decisions in such situations but the media, public and courts have months to micro analyse the cops actions, usually resulting in a bunch of "should have" statements from self appointed experts.