Gun Raids - Big Brother is here

[Skyryder]

Next thing they'll be raiding us to see how many 'illegal' motorbikes we have - too noisy, warrant run out, tyres worn below the minimum etc....

Then they'll take ALL your bikes of you.

Seems fair eh?

That's just plain silly as an analogy. That is unless you know something we don't.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

May one tactfully point out that making a smoothbore auto or semi auto gun is not that hard. Quite a few Kbers would ahve access to machine shops up to the task.

Rifling is another matter, but if I have the muzzle stuck up your left nostril, I don't NEED no stenking rifling.

So preventing crims getting hold of fire power may not be quite taht easy.

[Skyryder]

"They" do not have the right to bear arms in the US. The First part of that amendment is always conveniently ignored by the NRA.

"2nd Amendment A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

US citizens (in the context that it was written that means Men - no Women, criminals, Native Americans - O alright Indians) have the right to bear arms if they are a member of a State organised Militia and they have been mobilised for the defence of that State.

That's it exactly J2. The gunners and their apologists conveniantly miss the focal point of the second ammendment that is the citizens rights to keep and bear arms in a 'well regulated militia.' The sticky bit is the 'well regulated militia.' The the right to bear etc by its by its very placing in the constitution is an indication of the importance that the signatories to it placed on the preservation of 'freedom.' If by any chance the Federal Govt began opereating 'outside' of the constitution then the militia could 'lawfully' take up arms agaist it. That's was it's purpose. It was not as an aid to Govt Troops. The concept of the civilian militia developed prior to the American War of Independance where the Kings Army was the 'lawfull' army of the colony. Opponents to the second ammendment claim that the National Guard is the 'Well and regulated militia that the second ammendment applies to. It does not. The National Guard is virtually the States Army and can only be 'activated' by the Govenor, whose powers are vested in the US Constitution and the States Constitution. There is always the chance that the Govenor may use the National Guard against US military (treason) in times of a civil war for exmple. I'm not too sure but I believe that the Guard can only come under the US military with the Governors approval.

The problem today is that many of the called 'well and regulated militias' believe that they have this right (to engage the Govt) based on their 'belief and opinion' that the Fed Govt has acted outside the constition and law. Their main argument and they have some legal support for this is the action of the Feds at Waco.

http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html

Waco was madness and is an example of what happens in a gun ridden society regardles of whether it (the actions of the Govt) is lawfull or not.

Skyryder

[doc]

two shots
1 warning shot through the roof immediately proceeded by one through the chest.

I think you have the sequence around the wrong way.

Anyway I agree with Finn, how many murders, gang violence etc, actually involve these type of weapons I think there is something fishy here let's wait for the court case to come up and get a clearer picture. Sort of like the speculation that rapists get dealt to in prison, from what I've been told somethimes they're considered "role models"

[Skyryder]

Speaking of the PM, does your boyfriend know about your Helen Clark masturbation fantasies?

Sounds like you have Winj helping you to come up with that line. Mind you from what I hear you have not 'come up with anything of late.' There's medication for that sort of thing.

Skyryder

[sAsLEX]

First rule of an arms race, the aggressor always has the advantage over a defender. I'd prefer to avoid that arms race thanks. Refer the US of A arming bears...

Who said to go on the defensive?

I think you have the sequence around the wrong way.

Anyway I agree with Finn, how many murders, gang violence etc, actually involve these type of weapons I think there is something fishy here let's wait for the court case to come up and get a clearer picture. Sort of like the speculation that rapists get dealt to in prison, from what I've been told somethimes they're considered "role models"

Read that carefully.

Its Kiddy Fiddlers that get the rough treatment in jail according to all the media.

[Dai]

T.... The right to bear arms is from the second ammendment from the American Consitution and refers exactly to that, 'bear arms'' meaning to carry them out in the streets and in society.

..

Skyryder

Actually it was lifted almost verbatum fromn the "Bill of Rights" ensconsed in the British parliamentary system. The only part to actually be written down and from which our laws in New Zealand unltimately descend from.

This bill was written in the time of Oliver Cromwell and pre dates the US Constitution by almost 200 years.

Also while you are using the US as an example of the free and unrestricted ownership of firearms then please note that this country has the most number of firearms laws of any in the world. Figures of up to 20,000 different laws in all of the various states as well as the federal ones have been quoted at various meetings and books I have ratended and read.

If you look at countries such as those in Eurpoe where they allow thier citizens to keep and carry firearms with little or very unretrictive controls you will find that there is a a level of maturity and control amongst those who choose to exercise these rights that should be envied by this country.

I am amazed by the simiularities by the arguments in all the various countries of those persons who oppose firearms and there posession by their citizens. It is all based upon emotional and hypothetical premises and when confronted by logical argument just resorts to name calling and scare mongering.

It is a persons BASIC right to protect themselves and their family by whatever means from all that may harm them. This includes individuals and governmental threats. Look at Germany in the 1930's where private ownership of firearms was banned by the ruling political party except for those members of said party.

Countries like Rwanda where an unarmed populace was butchered by another armed one with no respect for their right to existance .

I respect the personal choice to avail ones self not to have firearms. That is a personal choice but please do not impose your views upon another.

One argument I have heard is that the police are there to protect us. To this I can only aswer with the phrase "BOLLOCKS"

By the very nature of the police force they can only be utilised in a reactive manner. To do otherwise would border upon fasism.

There is no way that all threats to a persons well being can be legislated away. Even in the US those so called anti gun figure heads have armed guards to protect their persons. Hypocritical at the least.

Once again I make my stance known.

Gun control is not about firearms.

Gun Control is another way of saying people control.


Rant over

[doc]

Who said to go on the defensive?




Read that carefully.

Its Kiddy Fiddlers that get the rough treatment in jail according to all the media.

Don't get pc on me boy you mean "KID FUCKERS" don't you

How many have been "done in" inside? We pay extra for them to be protected from the rank and file, so they can be rehabilitated quietly in our communities without our knowledge. Which is why we need all these guns, because people can't do it with their bare hands anymore. They feel braver when they don't have to get close and personel .

[scumdog]

There is no way that all threats to a persons well being can be legislated away. Even in the US those so called anti gun figure heads have armed guards to protect their persons. Hypocritical at the least.

Once again I make my stance known.

Gun control is not about firearms.

Gun Control is another way of saying people control.


Rant over

Bloody good call my man!!

NZ seems too firearm friendly for some??

Go to Britain, Aussie or Singapore, you'll feel SO much safer there.

[Lias]

Bloody good call my man!!

NZ seems too firearm friendly for some??

Go to Britain, Aussie or Singapore, you'll feel SO much safer there.

Aussie and Britain have some truly draconian gun laws these days.

Ironic that both have more gun related crime than we do.

[sAsLEX]

Don't get pc on me boy you mean "KID FUCKERS" don't you

yes

and good points

[wendigo]

No, but speed enforcement doesn't reduce the road toll either, just like tighter gun control won't stop firearms incidents.

You forgot to mention that banning smoking in bars did fuck all to reduce the number of people smoking in the end. Big surprise there then.

I don't have a gun, never had a gun, probably never will have a gun. However I do object to some useless prick of a politician dictating what type of gun I can buy. Especially when it's from the Green Party (fools one and all)

However, I can't say I'm remotely surprised. It is all part of the 'denial of responsibility' culture we are developing in this country*.

"It wasn't me", "It's not my fault", "It's not my responsibility", "the Government should deal with that"...

Shit, even the speed limit on city streets have been reduced to ridiculously slow speeds to stop stupid turkey pedestrians walking in front buses.

Come of it. If the populace is deemed to stupid to cross a road safely, or to stupid to decide for themselves whether they want to go into a smoky bar or not, the populace sure as hell isn't responsible enough to bear arms.


*Closely allied to the 'perception of safety' culture.

[Finn]

Sounds like you have Winj helping you to come up with that line. Mind you from what I hear you have not 'come up with anything of late.' There's medication for that sort of thing.

Skyryder

Viagra stops me from falling out of bed at night.

[Finn]

Don't get pc on me boy you mean "KID FUCKERS" don't you

How many have been "done in" inside? We pay extra for them to be protected from the rank and file, so they can be rehabilitated quietly in our communities without our knowledge. Which is why we need all these guns, because people can't do it with their bare hands anymore. They feel braver when they don't have to get close and personel .

Even with all my training in the SAS, I would break out in a sweat trying to drop a coconut on P. A 9mm is much more gentlemanlike.

[scracha]

PS: If your pro gun control don't even bother posting here, this thread is for people who believe in the right to bear arms.

Public thread mate. You post $hit and I'll reply to it.

I remember listening on the radio a report about a village 25Km up the road from me and feeling physically sick.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2543277.stm

Lets turn this country into a sort of little America where every second fucktard carries a gun.

Idiot.