Question on counter-steering

[Blahhh]

I agreed and understand how counter-steering works. In fact, the skill has saved me from many nasty potholes.

The problem is with my body's position. When I engage a bend at a high speed, my body will just shift the opposite side of the turn when counter steering. I try forcing my body to lean INTO the bend while counter steering, but it just feels weird.

How do I remedy it?

[James Deuce]

1. Look through the bend.

Break the corner into small parts starting with the following big chunks:
a. Road position - position yourself for the best view through the corner.

b. Braking marker - choose where you set your entry speed by either braking or rolling off the throttle.

c. Turn in point - pick a specific place to nudge the bars in which ever direction you are turning. Actively set the amount of maximum lean you will need, as quickly as possible. Set the chassis with a tiny amount of throttle and wind it on through the corner.

d. Pick your apex and nail it every time - this is where you begin to actively stand the bike up.

e. Begin the process all over again on the exit.

Each of those actions can be broken into a myriad of sub-components.

2. Body position.

a. Run through points 1a to 1e one after the other. While you are doing 1a, plan point 1b and so on. This will force you to look through the corner in stages by turning your head. Do not look at the road immediately in front of the bike. Plan every move ahead so you have time to avoid hazards or change your line or whatever avoidance techniques you have to use.

b. Drop the shoulder on the inside of the bend (the shoulder that will be lowest) and point it at the apex (1d).

It's more complex to explain than do. Practice this over and over until it is natural, on the same piece of road.

If it never becomes natural go Motard racing.

Looking through the corner is a big deal. It keeps your head level with the horizon it stops your body from trying to fight the falling over feeling as you lean. Keeping your eyes level with the horizon (either visible or imagined) stops your inner ear from telegraphing, "Oh crap, I'm falling over" messages to your brain.

[Grahameeboy]

All of that and I pull the opposite bar a bit too.........

Jeeze Jim does your brain never sleep.........respect to you.

[DEATH_INC.]

If I've got a bit of pace on what I do is sorta fall to the inside and then catch myself with the bike.......like jim sez, harder to explain than do. Oh, and looking through the corner (again re jim) is real important.

[bugjuice]

wow, that's a lot for this time of the mornin Jim!

oh, relax too, kinda helps. Over think something, and it won't work.

[ArcherWC]

What Death and Jim said

[Motu]

Sounds like you are riding like a dirt rider,pushing the bike down lower than your body...I often do that on tight corners.A dirt rider (or motard on road) will often keep their inner arm straight and push down on the bars through their shoulder - it's still countersteering,just a more forceful way of doing it...making the bike turn....and that's what countersteering is all about.

You need to be more subtle maybe,move with the body first and the bike will follow.

[Squeak the Rat]

If like I did, you have trouble dropping your inside shoulder (source: Jim2, 2,b ), you could try dropping your inside elbow lower than your hand.

[Ixion]

Some folk (like me) find it easier to pull the outer bar rather than push the inner one. Try that.

[Grahameeboy]

Some folk (like me) find it easier to pull the outer bar rather than push the inner one. Try that.

I do both..............as you know..wink wink!!

[El Dopa]

I agreed and understand how counter-steering works. In fact, the skill has saved me from many nasty potholes.

The problem is with my body's position. When I engage a bend at a high speed, my body will just shift the opposite side of the turn when counter steering. I try forcing my body to lean INTO the bend while counter steering, but it just feels weird.

How do I remedy it?

I used to do exactly the same thing. I read about counter-steering, everyone said I should be doing it, so I did. However, it felt weird leaning my body into the corner, so I'd bend at the waist and lean the opposite way to the bike - sort of try and stand myself upright while the bike was leaning.

I've stopped doing that because I realised the bike would tip into the corner quicker, and corner harder and faster, if I dropped my body weight into the corner too.

It does feel unnatural, but I keep telling myself to do it when I'm riding and cornering. The plan is to keep doing it and doing it and doing it until something that seems unnatural and counter-intuitive becomes instinctive.

Some folk (like me) find it easier to pull the outer bar rather than push the inner one. Try that.

I do that, too.

[Squeak the Rat]

Some folk (like me) find it easier to pull the outer bar rather than push the inner one. Try that.

Or some weirdo's (like me) use left hand for turning, right hand for throttle....... My right hand can't multi-task, especially when lent over.

[86GSXR]

Thanks to all you guys on this thread for some really good info on counter steering, esp that breakdown Jim2. I'm getting back into the biking after a wee break, and this stuff is great.

[XP@]

This is Keith Code on the subject of countersteering. He points out that your body alone dosent make any difference to the direction.
http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/countercode.html

Whilst this is true, I have found that since I have started consiously adjusting my lean in to the corner rather than out of the corner my speed has increased. On a fave set of corners I used to scrape pegs at 60kph, now I take the same corner at 70kph and still have room to spare.

[terbang]

We all countersteer with or without realising it. I apply pressure in the direction I want to lean (left bar, lean left and vice versa). As far as my body position, I tend to shift my weight into the turn by either dropping my shoulder into it or shifting my arse to the edge of the seat or a combination. This has the effect of what I call finding the "sweet spot" of the turn. A position where I am relaxed with my weight spread between footpeg and seat and the bike also feels relaxed while it is turning on your chosen line with minute handlebar adjustments (countersteer) fine-tuning its path.