Bloody cyclists

[Wolf]

Yes, some cyclists may ride more than 2 abreast, but those that do are usually the same kinds of people who could don a 1-piece set of leathers and run every red-light at 100km/hr on their busa, just because they could.

Yep - and I'd count them as fuckwits if I encountered them doing that, as well. I certainly wouldn't say "oh, but they're practising for the races and it's not practical for them to go to a training track all the time or get the road closed."
On a push bike or motor bike or in a car, SUV, van, bus or truck: if they are behaving like that, they're fuckwits.

[James Deuce]

But i can seldom manage to keep to the left of the white lane. Dorkland drivers seem to insist on hugging the right hand side of their lanes - lots of room on the left, bugger all on the right. Very annoying. I wish someone would Have A Word with them

It used to be like that down here, but it is definitely improving. Especially in lane 1, which means lane 1a has plenty of room. Someone may Have Had A Word with them.

[forkoil]

Yep - and I'd count them as fuckwits if I encountered them doing that, as well. I certainly wouldn't say "oh, but they're practising for the races and it's not practical for them to go to a training track all the time or get the road closed."
On a push bike or motor bike or in a car, SUV, van, bus or truck: if they are behaving like that, they're fuckwits.

Wolf, I've explained what cycle racing is about at a club level before, but I'll try again. Cycle clubs are everywhere in NZ and membership is increasing with more (middle aged mainly) riders appearing. They hold races during summer most weekends and in my ex-clubs case, this involves sending off groups of riders at timed intervals depending on ability. These groups number up to a dozen or so riders. These races are held with sanction from the local authorities on non closed public roads (note: with sanction from authorities). Except for bigger interclub or public open races, which have marshalls at critical intersections, road signs warning of the race etc, these weekend club races are on the same piece of road as I say every weekend (or so). Now the riders will stick to a pace line which is single file, dropping off the front to the back taking it in turns, until something like a hill comes up, then there will often be a "break" attempt during which all hell breaks loose, and riders will group up so as not to get "dropped" off the back. Then the group will settle back down. Now the photo at the start of this thread I would confidently say WERE racing. Lets not get into a well its OK then to break the law cos we're racing on our motorbikes, thats plainly ridiculous on a motorbike as you pose far far more of a hazard to yourself and to other road users racing on public roads on a motorbike than a bicycle, and if you dont accept there is a difference its pointless to discuss this further.

Anyway, of course I dont agree with casual cyclist bunching up more than 2 abreast and keeping to the left, but I do think there is a rightful place for weekend racing in cycling clubs on open public roads (it would be unacceptable to close these roads on such a regular basis).

[James Deuce]

Forkoil, we've tried to explain it to you too, but you're not listening.

There are many cycle clubs in Wellington too. The do NOT ride in single file on club rides on public rides. The only single file I ever see on a club ride is the newbies who were "dropped" at the start, strung out anything up to 5kms behind the main bunch. The main bunch is behaving like a seething mass of tape worms, writhing about as people jostle each other, usually 5 deep, and blocking at least half a lane.

You can continue to push your belief of how it SHOULD work. The only time it works like that in reality is when there is a small group of hardcore cyclists (usually no more than 4) and even then they will give you shit when you pull out in front of them at the lights at the bottom of the Haywards Hill (for instance) when you have the lights in your favour and they don't want their rhythm broken. I've seen two cyclists flattened when running red lights along Featherston St.

You can push the "It's alright for cyclists to flout the rules and behave like arseholes" all you want. I'll still laugh when they put themselves in a dumb position and get themselves hurt. I'll help them, but the Police aren't going to get anything but the truth from me for the accident report. I laugh in the face of the idiot in the Lance Armstrong costume who just spat at the drivers' door because I was using the road with the rules in my favour. What is it with that ego anyway? They're amateur cycle racers. They wouldn't see which way the peloton went if someone dropped them in a proper tour.

[MSTRS:Me]

.... Its pointless trying to explain this to anyone who is so fixed in their prejudice they wont hear.
......

Hmmmm.....

[Alice]

any cyclist knows when racing at club level we do hog the road, the tactics involved in cycle racing mean you do not always stay rideing as some motorists would like, out of there way, the only time we are riding 2 across in a race is if the pace line is working properly and people are rotating, a lot of the time it isn't cause the wheel suckers won't take a there turn, on hills it always bunchs up as everyone trys to stay together or make a break and we're all ready to jump if someone trys to make a break. Single file only happens when its a crosswind and everyone is trying to get some shelter from the rider in front. Cycle racing is all tactics and saving energy where you can. The only solution to stop this problem would be ban cycle racing from public roads. I think that would be a shame, but it would honestly be the only way you will stop the problem completely. Its a shame a lot of cyclists out training are not more traffic concious, and its just plain stupid cause they will come of worse, self preservation should dictate their behaviour. A few people have stated that they have pedalled many kms and never had anything thrown at them, I read that to mean that if we have things thrown at us its cause we asked for it by our behaviour at the time. The times its happend to me I have been riding along in no ones way. There is a lot of predjudice towards cyclists. I think a lot of people do not like the way we look, tight lycra, well some of the guys must like the way it looks on me cause I have to put with with those remarks that I will leave to your imagination, but they do not like the guys with there shaved legs and tight shorts.

Cycling is an awesome sport, it feels really good to be super fit and it gets the endorphins and adrenalin going, couple of things I need anyway to keep me happy.

Its would be good to see more people commuting on cycles, saves yu fuel bills, its good for the enviroment, it means you arrive at work feeling good cause the endorphins have had there effect. Its good for your health both physical and mental. From what I have seem since I have been motorcyling a few motorcyclists could do with a few kms on a pedally, ...slight overweight issues, ...and cut the faggs, still we all choose how to live our lives so if they want to be overweight and cough there guts out, then go for it.

Wolf, you really have strong views and a lot of them are justified. But take note of all the cyclists that are not causing a problem and I think you will notice its a minority that do act as a hazard.

Cyclists have to have there wits about them, they are a lot of accidents involving cars that just do not see us. A guy was killed here a week or so back, run over from behind early in the morning, he had flashing lights on. A guy I work with was hit from behind a few years back, he had a near death experience and was floating looking down on his body then woke up in hospital. His training partner was not so lucky, she is in a wheelchair. I have been riding with a friend and seen him taken out by a car that just pulled straight out in front of him and had many close calls myself.

People go on about motorcycling being dangerous, I feel much safer on the VTR than any of my pedalys, my eyes never stop darting around for hazards and cars underestimate the speed we can travel at.

I feel its your pet hate, you want to know what my pet hates are ! probably not but anyway, its people that throw their rubbish on the ground and dogs shitting on the footpath.

[jrandom]

I don't have any pet hates.

I just wish everybody could love each other.

Come on, guys. Group hug.

I get to work 30 mins earlier than I would in a car, and 20 kilograms fatter than if I rode a pushy...

[James Deuce]

I may be 20kgs fatter, but I'm a lot less dead than I'd be if I had to ride up Dowse Dr on a pushy every night.

[KLOWN]

Alice, that was an excellent post. The way forkoil was talking he was basically saying cyclist did no wrong and if they did it was ok cause they were "racing"
It always is the minority that causes the most problems and always the ones that cause problems are the ones remembered.

Wolf said previously if comes accross a polite cyclist who has moved over or even recognises(sp) he is there then he will let them know he appreciates it. Wolf seems to be a responsible motorist and you seems to be a responsible cyclist (and more than likely motorist) so good on ya both.

bling for a great post

[Wolf]

Wolf, you really have strong views and a lot of them are justified. But take note of all the cyclists that are not causing a problem and I think you will notice its a minority that do act as a hazard.

Reread my posts and you will see I have stated several times that I have no problem with cyclists - even groups of cyclists - who are behaving in a safe and courteous manner. It is only when they are behaving dangerously and arrogantly - as that bunch I referred to were - that I have any issues and I have stated often enough that I also have issues with people on motorbikes or in cars, vans, SUVs, trucks etc who behave dangerously and/or arrogantly.

Forkoil's constant assertion that those cyclists were most likely racing and therefore had every right to block the road and cross the centre line (break the law and behave arrogantly and dangerously) does not wash with me.

As I have said, I have often encountered groups of cyclists: usually not cycling more than 2-abreast and usually they switch to single file when a vehicle approaches from behind them.

The expectation I have, on encountering a bunch of cyclists up to 6-abreast in front of me, is that they will pull into single file and let other vehicles past (unless they are in a properly organised road race with pace cars, marshalls etc), not that they will continue to block the road and cross the centre line on practically every right-hand turn.

If it just the local club putting in regular practise-racing on an open public road then there is no reason why they should not observe basic safety and courtesy - it's only a practise after all, not an inter-club championship.

And I'm sure there are plenty of cycling clubs out there who practise racing on the open public roads who do ride safely and responsibly, who do pull over to let other traffic through - out of courtesy and safety considerations - who don't share forkoil's assertion that they have every right to endanger themselves and others and behave arrogantly.

I feel its your pet hate, you want to know what my pet hates are ! probably not but anyway, its people that throw their rubbish on the ground and dogs shitting on the footpath.

Dangerous behaviour on the roads is one of my pet hates, not cyclists (or cars or trucks or SUVs) in particular.

[Wolf]

Lets not get into a well its OK then to break the law cos we're racing on our motorbikes, thats plainly ridiculous on a motorbike as you pose far far more of a hazard to yourself and to other road users racing on public roads on a motorbike than a bicycle, and if you dont accept there is a difference its pointless to discuss this further.

Bullshit. A dog racing out across the road can cause a lethal accident if it causes a panicked reaction in the driver/rider of a vehicle. It can cause the death of any motorcyclist unlucky enough to hit it.

You don't have to be riding a few hundred kilos of motorbike (or driving a ton of car, 2.5 tons of SUV etc) to be a hazard on the road.

That dick who swerved in front of my motorbike on his pushbike could easily have killed us both if i hadn't been able to react in time.

Pedestrians stepping off the curb suddenly or running out into the road; push bikes swerving across your path, blocking your path or crossing the centre line; errant animals - all just as potentially deadly as anything else on the road.

If you cannot accept that, then yes, it is pointless discussing it.

[Wolf]

They hold races during summer most weekends and in my ex-clubs case, this involves sending off groups of riders at timed intervals depending on ability. These groups number up to a dozen or so riders. These races are held with sanction from the local authorities on non closed public roads (note: with sanction from authorities). Except for bigger interclub or public open races, which have marshalls at critical intersections, road signs warning of the race etc, these weekend club races are on the same piece of road as I say every weekend (or so).

It occurs to me:

If these "races" are a regular event on the same stretch of road, rather than just a bunch of dicks deciding to ride whatever road they desire, then how hard would it be for the club to put up a sign or two on these roads before they head out on their practise run saying "WARNING! Cyclists ahead"?

That way, other road users would know that they are there and at least be prepared to encounter them.

In any respect, being part of a club does not grant a licence to flagrantly break laws designed around safety and courtesy.

I refer back to my posts on the road code and the requirements of cyclists - that they are expected to keep as far to the left as practicable and obey the same road rules as any other road user. It further states that the expectation upon cyclists by other road users is that they will do so.

Ergo, clumping more than 2-abreast and crossing the centre line is illegal and the onus is on the cyclists who are doing it to stop doing so and give way to other traffic.

Likewise, when we as motorcyclists ride out in a group, the expectation of other road users is that we will obey the road rules and thus behave in a predictable and courteous fashion. They expect that we will maintain a safe following distance, travel within 10km/h of the legal speed limit, stay on our side of the centre line etc. When we stop doing that they get rightfully angry.

Occasionally, the rules get suspended - on closed or semi-closed roads under the watchful eyes of marshalls and police - but until that time we are bound by the laws of the land.

[Wolf]

Bullshit. A dog racing out across the road can cause a lethal accident if it causes a panicked reaction in the driver/rider of a vehicle. It can cause the death of any motorcyclist unlucky enough to hit it.

You don't have to be riding a few hundred kilos of motorbike (or driving a ton of car, 2.5 tons of SUV etc) to be a hazard on the road.

That dick who swerved in front of my motorbike on his pushbike could easily have killed us both if i hadn't been able to react in time.

Pedestrians stepping off the curb suddenly or running out into the road; push bikes swerving across your path, blocking your path or crossing the centre line; errant animals - all just as potentially deadly as anything else on the road.

If you cannot accept that, then yes, it is pointless discussing it.

Apparently, the above is proof that I am "irrational". Apparently "rational" behaviour is to break the law whilst racing pushbikes on the roads, so:

Of course, yes, I'm wrong, please forgive me, forkoil, and don't red bling me any more that lovely sane and intelligent cyclist who swerved in front of me was perfectly safe and my fears of doing the Death Stoppie From Hell with a cyclist and pushbike embedded in the front wheel are completely irrational. Every cyclist on the planet is superhumanly talented and the rules drafted for us mere mortals need not apply. (Hmmmm, no "Self-flagellation" smilie when ya need one...)

Yeah, whatever.

[Ixion]

For the avoidance of doubt, here is the law.

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004. Highlights are mine.

11.10Riding abreast

(1)A person must not ride a cycle or moped on a roadway so that it remains abreast and to the right of—

(a)2 other vehicles that are cycles or mopeds; or
(b)1 other cycle or moped while that cycle or moped is overtaking and passing another vehicle, including a parked vehicle; or
(c)any other vehicle having 3 or more road wheels (including a motorcycle fitted with a sidecar).

(2)Subclause (1) does not apply if cyclists are participating in a race that is subject to a traffic management plan agreed by the road controlling authority.

Clear enough. Unless there is a Traffic Management Plan, no more than 2 abreast or single file if passing parked cars. That's the law.

"I wanna race my mates every weekend" does not class as an exemption.

[Wolf]

For the avoidance of doubt, here is the law.

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004. Highlights are mine.



Clear enough. Unless there is a Traffic Management Plan, no more than 2 abreast or single file if passing parked cars. That's the law.

"I wanna race my mates every weekend" does not class as an exemption.

Oops, looks like you're being irrational too - watch out...

Remember, the road code is only a "blunt instrument" and does not apply to anyone who rides a safe unpowered vehicle.