`Can I see your licence, please'

**The_Dover** · 27th March 2007, 08:15

Originally Posted by Grahameeboy

The black poo getting to ya then..........

Not in the slightest. It's actually yellow and lumpy. Kinda like cottage cheese with a teaspoon of cumin mixed thru it.

I am loving it, she's great.

I just think that tales of discretion and police initiative should be relevant to an intelligent assesment of the danger posed by the offence.

I see too many fuckknuckles speeding through town, built up areas, even country villages when out on open road rides. I strongly disagree with that and I often get left behind (more than usual) when passing through urban areas because, despite popular belief, I have a bit of respect for the people who live in these areas.

Highways and rural areas are a different kettle of fish but I would still not expect discretion for a hundred and sixty percenter.

**Grahameeboy** · 27th March 2007, 08:28

Originally Posted by The_Dover

Not in the slightest. It's actually yellow and lumpy. Kinda like cottage cheese with a teaspoon of cumin mixed thru it.

I am loving it, she's great.

Great to hear Ben..................

**Patrick** · 27th March 2007, 09:01

Originally Posted by The_Dover

I can't see anyone else getting discretion for 160 in a 100 zone, even if it was the dead of night, on the desert rd, without any other cunt for miles.

Thats because your head is up your arse...

He will know who he is... the biker I warned for 167 on the Desert Rd, the dead of morning (8ish), with no Dovers around....

**MikeL** · 27th March 2007, 09:06

Congratulations for not getting a ticket, but your experience just underlines the capricious nature of enforcement. I got a ticket some time ago in exactly the same place. Rounding Greenwoods Corner and heading downhill towards Royal Oak there is a natural tendency for speed to increase temporarily, and outside rush hours it would be hard to find many vehicles doing less than 60 along this stretch. The road is broad with no obvious hazards until you get to the pedestrian crossing by the school and then the entrance to the shopping mall where you need to slow right down. And at 10 pm when I was stopped the traffic is sparse. My attempt at explanation/mitigation was cut short by a curt "I'm going to give you a ticket for exceeding 50 km/h" and I ended up with 20 points on my licence as well as the fine for doing I think 67 or 68 km/h. Why were you lucky and I wasn't?
Why did you get off with a warning even though you were going a lot faster and were following too close? Was it because you're on a learner's licence and I've had mine for 37 years? Was it because the cop thought I could afford the fine but you couldn't? Or was it just that one was having a good day and the other wasn't?? We know it can't be because of any quota...
It's a game of chance, a lottery that has nothing to do with natural justice and very little to do with road safety.
If inconsistency is inherent in a system that allows some discretion, perhaps the discretion needs to be removed entirely. It is illogical to maintain that exceeding the speed limit is always wrong regardless of the circumstances and then to allow discretion in the issuing of the tickets. On what is that discretion based if not the circumstances?

**spudchucka** · 27th March 2007, 09:22

Originally Posted by MikeL

On what is that discretion based if not the circumstances?

A cops experience and their gut feeling, neither of which can be measured or taught.

**xwhatsit** · 27th March 2007, 09:24

Originally Posted by MikeL

Congratulations for not getting a ticket, but your experience just underlines the capricious nature of enforcement. I got a ticket some time ago in exactly the same place. Rounding Greenwoods Corner and heading downhill towards Royal Oak there is a natural tendency for speed to increase temporarily, and outside rush hours it would be hard to find many vehicles doing less than 60 along this stretch. The road is broad with no obvious hazards until you get to the pedestrian crossing by the school and then the entrance to the shopping mall where you need to slow right down. And at 10 pm when I was stopped the traffic is sparse. My attempt at explanation/mitigation was cut short by a curt "I'm going to give you a ticket for exceeding 50 km/h" and I ended up with 20 points on my licence as well as the fine for doing I think 67 or 68 km/h. Why were you lucky and I wasn't?
Why did you get off with a warning even though you were going a lot faster and were following too close? Was it because you're on a learner's licence and I've had mine for 37 years? Was it because the cop thought I could afford the fine but you couldn't? Or was it just that one was having a good day and the other wasn't?? We know it can't be because of any quota...
It's a game of chance, a lottery that has nothing to do with natural justice and very little to do with road safety.
If inconsistency is inherent in a system that allows some discretion, perhaps the discretion needs to be removed entirely. It is illogical to maintain that exceeding the speed limit is always wrong regardless of the circumstances and then to allow discretion in the issuing of the tickets. On what is that discretion based if not the circumstances?

Well, I'm not a psychology major, but I did a couple of introductory psych courses in my first year at uni. One unit was on learning and conditioning, like the classic Pavlov's dog thing. If you always reinforce a particular behaviour, such as always giving a ticket every time you step over a certain speed, that makes a pretty strong learning condition. You're sure that if you speed, you will get a ticket. However, oddly enough, a much stronger learning condition is made if that behaviour is reinforced more sporadically. This is because when you do speed, and you get away with it, in the first instance you're likely to think the system for reinforcement has completely fallen down. On the other hand, with sporadic reinforcement, you're likely to see this `getting away with it' as just part of a pattern., so the fear of getting ticketed still remains.

Why did I get away with it? I don't know. Perhaps because I didn't attempt explanation or mitigation. It being the first time I've ever been stopped by a cop, too, and having any form of driver's licence for less than 6 months. I think road safety does play a small part. If I'd been ear-bashed with some huge lecture and had the book thrown at me, that would've earned nothing but resentment and anger (look at poor Dover). I don't think that would necessarily improve my riding much. Instead, I'm going to say I was very bloody lucky, and try not to tempt my luck again. Did the cop who ticketed you produce a similar response?

**Macktheknife** · 27th March 2007, 09:31

Originally Posted by Grub

That's totally out of order! What fucking right have you got to state shit like that when a KBer is telling a tale of good cops who are looking after bikers and getting a positive result.

Fuck you, you don't deserve to be treated with any respect by either us or 'them'. You certainly have a closed mind and no respect for anyone or anything.

Grub, calm the hell down mate.
He was joking, but even if he hadn't been, outbursts like yours are unreasonable. No need to resort to personal attacks.
Suffice it to say, I know this guy and he is a top bloke, you have misjudged him and his comments.

**terbang** · 27th March 2007, 09:45

If you speed then don't grizzle if you get a fine, thats one of the risks you take when speeding (along with your life). If you speed and don't know you are, then back to riding school for you and you also deserve a ticket. However that is not what this thread is about, it is about cops using discretion and using the old fashioned 'boot up the arse warning' when appropriate in lieu of ticketing. I think the outcome of Xersda..phat's experience was positive to his development as a road or highway rider, full marks to the cop as he has done his job well by making a good judgement call with an alternative therapy. In other circumstances (ranting and raving) it may well just be more effective to write out a ticket. Dover, through his inveiled disdain for cops, has some good points. Speeding in a city or urban area in certain periods is a highly dangerous practise and should attract the toughest of penalties where speeding down the desert road at midnight with no traffic around is not much of a menace to society. I am sure that most cops are easily capable of handling each case with appropriate discretion and do so. However it all boils down to the law is the law and if we don't like it then we (voters) have the ability to change it, rather than flout it.

**SixPackBack** · 27th March 2007, 10:10

Originally Posted by spudchucka

Fishing again?

Not at all. The pigs attitude is sometimes worse than the offenders.

But then I guess you are superior beings

**Beemer** · 27th March 2007, 10:14

You're lucky and no doubt about it. Most of us, despite having a good attitude when pulled up, would not be so lucky.

However, nowhere did you say you learned you should indicate and that is one thing I get really pissed off with - people who don't indicate. No one seems to have pulled you up on that and I think they should. There are so many threads on here about inconsiderate car drivers who didn't indicate and nearly killed bikers and yet here is a motorcyclist saying that he repeatedly did this - and was speeding as well!

I have no problem with cops using their discretion, I've been on the receiving end of it myself, but you were doing three potentially dangerous things - speeding, not indicating, and following too close. If you travel this road regularly and didn't realise what speed you were doing that night, then you need to be more observant as it's likely you do this all the time. Didn't the fact you kept coming up behind other vehicles who were going slower alert you? As for not indicating, no excuse there, particularly when there is other traffic around.

You were lucky, but I think you need to take a closer look at your actions and realise you need to change the way you ride or the next thread will no doubt be along the lines of "fucking pig gave me a ticket for doing 80 in a 50kph zone, not indicating and following too close".

**The Stranger:Me** · 27th March 2007, 10:24

Originally Posted by xerxesdaphat

What did I learn? Well, for a start, it's hard to tell there's a police car behind you at night. Secondly, I need to keep an eye on my speed. I had no idea I was going that quick, and I'm being serious here. Nearly 80kph? Christ. Following distance is something to keep an eye on too. I knew the guy was going slow around the corner, I thought if I came around at normal speed then sat in behind him he would speed up. A bit rude for a start, but also not very legal. Still room to stop if he slammed on his brakes, I'm pretty sure, but that's no excuse.

You may want to add indicating to your list too.
Bike mirrors are shit, and although you head check you could still miss seeing a vehicle. Indicate for the vehicles you don't see, not just for the ones you do.

Also, particularly at night it is hard for cage drivers to see a bike. A flashing light is much more visible and alerts them that the headlight they see is actually a motorbike and not part of the car behind you.

**peasea** · 27th March 2007, 10:36

Originally Posted by The Stranger

You may want to add indicating to your list too.
Bike mirrors are shit, and although you head check you could still miss seeing a vehicle. Indicate for the vehicles you don't see, not just for the ones you do.

Also, particularly at night it is hard for cage drivers to see a bike. A flashing light is much more visible and alerts them that the headlight is they see is actually a motorbike and not part of the car behind you.

Quite right, a wee flick of the thumb could save you some cash from a ticket or even save your arse. Lack of indication in town, in my experience, causes more aggro than speeding does on country roads. It's something the cops need to have a look at, especially at intersections/roundabouts. Pinging the cruisers on country roads is far easier though, and qutoas are now part of their 'performance' requirements. It's human nature to take the easy option.
(Why do I have a vision of Arkwrights carnivorous cash register in my head?)

**xwhatsit** · 27th March 2007, 11:39

Indicators too, yeah I forgot to mention that. Of course I always use them at intersections, but you're right, using them when doing lane changes is wise too.

All a pretty big reality check on my riding. Riding mostly at night means you can get away with riding silly for longer, I guess.

Do I ride like a hoon? A couple of people on here have seen me ride. I always get pissed at the GSXR riders who scream off from the traffic lights, riding like twats outside my work, perhaps I'm being hypocritical?

**Deviant Esq** · 27th March 2007, 12:10

I'm betting you don't ride like a hoon (difficult to on a CB250!

), but people will have their say. People failing to indicate is a pet peeve of mine as well, but as you've pointed out pretty well (without other people harping on at you) that you've had a bit of a wake up call. Lucky you didn't have to pay a hefty government donation to get that wake up call. Good thread despite what comes out of the woodwork.