Affordable four-stroke single GP bikes?

[motorbyclist]

what's wrong with the NC30 or NC35?

it's about time the japs started making some inline and/or V 4 250 and 400cc bikes again

even looking at the new road bike market, for a sportbike fan you are only offered a jump straight from a 250cc inline or V twin to a 600cc inline 4


but until then, this looks like a pretty nice idea - just the single thumper seems a bit silly on the road where 4 cylinders would be better suited

though i would definitely like to see a cr500 conversion...

[quallman1234]

Must be something in that two stroker smoke making them people a bit stir crazy, maybe an additive in the oil that makes the smoke addictive, and the people highly defensive of their habits!

You obviously haven't ridden a highly peaky little 2 stroker. The lessons you learn on these little peaky fuckers can't be represented by any other 4 stroke.

Why is there still a 125GP class in motogp? - because its a bloody good step up.

p.s Choppa im 18(almost) glen's 18, Patrick's just turned 19. - We all race, but 10k isn't realstic unless your keen to get a massif loan (if its even approved!).

[Badjelly]

There days are numbered because the world giants (yanks etc) with thier big 20million litre chevy V8 gas guzzlers are saying that a minority automotive group (two strokes) are the sole reason for the hole in the ozone (proove to me that it even exists!)

The extent of the ignorance revealed in that paragraph is breathtaking!

[R6_kid:Me]

You obviously haven't ridden a highly peaky little 2 stroker. The lessons you learn on these little peaky fuckers can't be represented by any other 4 stroke.

Why is there still a 125GP class in motogp? - because its a bloody good step up.

p.s Choppa im 18(almost) glen's 18, Patrick's just turned 19. - We all race, but 10k isn't realstic unless your keen to get a massif loan (if its even approved!).

I've actually ridden an RG150, a TZR250 and a RS250 with a tuned exhaust. I also learnt to ride on a ZXR250, which although not as peaky as a two stroke, still meant that to be 'on the pace' with the bigger bikes you needed to work the gears and keep it in the right rev range... sure the 2t's have far less engine braking.

There is still a 125GP class because it's always been there, and sure its a good step up, just that no-one has offered a distinct replacement for the class until now. I think you'll find that if they were tuning a 250 4t single cylinder engine it would be almost as peaky as some two strokes, just with a shit load more engine braking. Also, I see you aren't racing on a brand spankers 125GP bike... is that affordable for you at the moment?

Racing is expensive, if it was cheap then all the bucket racers and SS guys would be out on 'real' bikes and filling up the grids.

[R6_kid:Me]

There days are numbered because the world giants (yanks etc) with thier big 20million litre chevy V8 gas guzzlers are saying that a minority automotive group (two strokes) are the sole reason for the hole in the ozone (proove to me that it even exists!)

Actually it's due to the European Emmissions testing which keeps getting stricter and stricter. Most european manufacturers that produce awesome 125 2t road bikes are looking for alternatives, or are severely detuning their bikes to pass the new emmissions test.

As for the ozone hole... go to a country where they dont have an 'ozone hole' over them and see how much longer it takes you to get sunburnt... there is your proof. And besides, emmissions contribute to global warming, not so much the depletion of the ozone layer.

[Badjelly]

And besides, emissions contribute to global warming, not so much the depletion of the ozone layer.

You're closer than Sketchy_Racer, but the concern about 2-stroke emissions relates more to urban air pollution. Because 2-stroke engines burn oil as well as petrol (and I think also because they don't burn the petrol completely) they emit more carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, and particulate matter than 4-strokes. I don't know exactly how much more, but various fragments I've seen on the WWW suggest much, much more, eg this (which admittedly is more concerned about hydrocarbons in the water from hydrocarbons than in the air)

http://www.kimointernational.org/Default.aspx?tabid=68

But I admit there are holes in my knowledge about this, so I have a challenge: I've seen many posts on KB dismissing the environmental problems caused by 2-stroke engines, but not one that suggested the poster actually knew the first thing about it. If anyone wants to go off and do a bit of reading and come back and argue that the emissions regulations applied to 2-stroke motorbikes are excessive or unreasonable, then please do and we can discuss it.

I've started a new thread for the responses:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh....php?p=1468644

[CHOPPA]

With MX i was a hardcore 2 stroke fan and to be honest i love riding them the only reason i went to 4 stroke was that they were easy to ride fast. I like the idea of this class because it seems like a way of the future sadly as 2 strokes seem to be getting fazed out also that you will be on newer bikes and give people of my size more of a chance in the class. 1 thing is though, is that 450 motocross engines require good maintenance with there titanium valves etc specially with the high revs involved in road racing, if a 450 or 250 4st engine lets go your in for some serious coin!

[limbimtimwim]

Racing is expensive, if it was cheap then all the bucket racers and SS guys would be out on 'real' bikes and filling up the grids.

That's not right. Riding a bucket is a lot of fun. I've had as much fun at the bucket track as I did on a proper race track riding a 'real' bike. More so in a way because the laughter doesn't stop.

I think there would be many people out there racing in street stock and buckets out of choice, not out of lack of resources.

[quallman1234]

Fully snythetic 2 stroke oil. Doesn't burn any hydrocarbons (or whatever) , don't quote me tho, read it some where.

[madkeenandy]

At the current state of rules in new zealand this class is not practical

you have to spend almost double to get setup compared to 125s

with honda leading the way in ditching two strokes, they are not going to be along for much longer

so sure i can see a future class in which we race four stroke engines

however now is not that time. the right time is when we (competitiors) can aqurire/build our own machines cheaper than 7-8k and when the big four jap manufactors actually build an (4t) engine designed for high revs. i suspect that a highly strung and highly revved 4t would not last and would cost heaps to fix when it went bang.

as for this whole ozone stuff.... what a load of crap. sure a two stroke engine is going to eat up the ole layer a bit more than a 4t, but the only people that ride the damn things are 125 guys. the tiny amount of these guys means that we shouldn't use them as a scapegoat but rather look at our own everyday driving habits in our cars. we (car drivers) are doing far more damage than 20 guys on gp bikes

[diesel pig]

Racing is expensive, if it was cheap then all the bucket racers and SS guys would be out on 'real' bikes and filling up the grids.

R6_kid pull your head in, Bucket racing is a end until it's self. Well over half of all bucket racers have owned or do own other types of race bikes. Being cheap is just a bonus that helps make Buckets the fantastic class it is.
So careful who you call cheap.

[FruitLooPs]

Forgive my ignorance, but whats wrong with 650 protwins as a step up. It's quite new yeah, does that explain the low numbers?

Sounds like a good class, I know some of the top SS riders down south shifted over to them just fine.

[Badjelly]

as for this whole ozone stuff.... what a load of crap.

You're right there! it's got nothing to do with the bloody ozone layer! But it's off-topic here. You might want to chime in on this thread:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=69190

[CookMySock]

Fully snythetic 2 stroke oil. Doesn't burn any hydrocarbons (or whatever) , don't quote me tho, read it some where.

Yes, this is correct. Amsoil 100:1 is absolutely brilliant.

DB

[R6_kid:Me]

R6_kid pull your head in, Bucket racing is a end until it's self. Well over half of all bucket racers have owned or do own other types of race bikes. Being cheap is just a bonus that helps make Buckets the fantastic class it is.
So careful who you call cheap.

although i didnt say in my post, i know that nearly all of you are in it for the fun and engenuity involved in the bucket racing... i've been to watch and it looks like damn good fun, and also good racing experience. Didnt mean to offend it as by calling it 'cheap' - it is much more affordable compared to running a 600cc Sports Production bike though.