Illegal Doco on TV2.

**jono035** · 11th July 2009, 08:50

Originally Posted by ynot slow

And most semi autos of shotgun and centre fire are pinned to max of 5 rounds,except MSSA ones if I'm informed correctly,or it is my thinking of them.

For a firearm to be designated a MSSA it has to fulfill one of the following criteria:

Folding or Telescopic Butt
Magazine of more than 15 rounds for .22 rimfire or more than 7 rounds all others (shotgun included)
Bayonet lug
Free standing 'military style' pistol grip
Flash Suppressor (Sound Suppressors and Muzzle Brakes don't count)

This is in addition to it being a semi-automatic, obviously.

**jono035** · 11th July 2009, 08:52

Originally Posted by ynot slow

And to add to the further crap,the guy fired a military style semi auto (mssa) .22 on a farm or similar,almost to invoke the scarry military type weapon he wanted to buy ILLEGALLY.

He was firing a G22 if I recall, which is currently an A category (hunting) rifle.

**ynot slow** · 11th July 2009, 09:39

Originally Posted by jono035

He was firing a G22 if I recall, which is currently an A category (hunting) rifle.

Yep have seen a few on trademe and thought nice looking weapon,then saw category A.Thought shit hot lol,can get one.

Cheers for info re mag maximum on MSSA/semi auto centre fire,knew they had smallish mags,hell if you need more than 7 rounds in a semi .308 Ruger type you shouldn't be hunting.

**jono035** · 11th July 2009, 09:46

Originally Posted by ynot slow

Yep have seen a few on trademe and thought nice looking weapon,then saw category A.Thought shit hot lol,can get one.

Cheers for info re mag maximum on MSSA/semi auto centre fire,knew they had smallish mags,hell if you need more than 7 rounds in a semi .308 Ruger type you shouldn't be hunting.

Yeah, I don't find the current restrictions too bad really, I think it is a good balance.

If I recall, those G22s are pretty expensive for a semi-auto .22. I would say get something like a Ruger 10/22. I have a target-kitted one and if I needed a lightweight semi-auto .22 for hunting (I use the target gun for rabbits) then I'll buy another one with a stainless barrel and stick a polymer stock on it...

**ynot slow** · 11th July 2009, 09:55

Originally Posted by jono035

Yeah, I don't find the current restrictions too bad really, I think it is a good balance.

If I recall, those G22s are pretty expensive for a semi-auto .22. I would say get something like a Ruger 10/22. I have a target-kitted one and if I needed a lightweight semi-auto .22 for hunting (I use the target gun for rabbits) then I'll buy another one with a stainless barrel and stick a polymer stock on it...

About $1250 from gun city I think,the ruger was my choice for semi,but grabbed a Norinco b/a set up for $349,scope,2 mags,bag and the ENN? model,nicer bolt,smooth as.

**jono035** · 11th July 2009, 10:23

Originally Posted by ynot slow

About $1250 from gun city I think,the ruger was my choice for semi,but grabbed a Norinco b/a set up for $349,scope,2 mags,bag and the ENN? model,nicer bolt,smooth as.

Yeah, that is at the upper end of prices for a stock .22 semi auto, the Norinco sounds like a good deal, that's about what I paid for my bolt-action stainless Stirling.

**Shadows** · 11th July 2009, 10:29

Originally Posted by jono035

For a firearm to be designated a MSSA it has to fulfill one of the following criteria:

Folding or Telescopic Butt
Magazine of more than 15 rounds for .22 rimfire or more than 7 rounds all others (shotgun included)
Bayonet lug
Free standing 'military style' pistol grip
Flash Suppressor (Sound Suppressors and Muzzle Brakes don't count)

This is in addition to it being a semi-automatic, obviously.

Soon to be ANY 'military style' pistol grip. So all those guys who have glued or screwed a bar between the end of the pistol grip and the butt will have to come up with another out.

**duckonin** · 11th July 2009, 11:19

Originally Posted by Swoop

$200 per month?????????
Bloody hell!

Hang on a second. The present system was brought in because the old PTP system was unworkable, plain and simple.
The error rate was massive.

The current PTP system appears just as bad. Many instances of inaccuracies in records have come to light. People have had their registered guns confiscated because they "were not on the system", and then the police had to return them (with apologies - which was nice of them) when the balls-up was found.
The prime cilprit in all of this appears to be Wellington and the keyboard jockeys that input/stuff-up the data.

The current system is the best in the world for workability. For the worst system, refer to Canada.

Our system really is the pits, the police have no Idea how many guns anyone person has at any time, at least the old system gave them a very good hint..

Back a few years ago computers were not as good at spitting out info as they are today but yes you are right it all comes back to (keyboard jockeys )

**jono035** · 11th July 2009, 11:23

Originally Posted by Shadows

Soon to be ANY 'military style' pistol grip. So all those guys who have glued or screwed a bar between the end of the pistol grip and the butt will have to come up with another out.

Yeah, we'll see how that goes. The problem is that there are quite a few rifles that the change will designate as MSSA without reason, such as the H&K SL8 Sporting Rifle. The NZ Police also appear to have undertaken this change without contacting or allowing submissions from any of NZs sporting organisations, which leaves a few question marks as the motive.

There is a guy who is contesting this issue in the High Court at the moment. You can find more info here if you are interested or think the cause is worth supporting.

**jono035** · 11th July 2009, 11:23

Originally Posted by duckonin

Our system really is the pits, the police have no Idea how many guns anyone person has at any time, at least the old system gave them a very good hint..

Back a few years ago computers were not as good at spitting out info as they are today but yes you are right it all comes back to (keyboard jockeys )

I do not believe that 'number of guns owned' necessarily translates to anything that is useful in the way you are implying.

**ManDownUnder** · 11th July 2009, 11:25

From another forum, for those wishing to raise the issue with www.bsa.govt.nz

I'm personally in favour of writing your own complaint based on what you think (rather than cut and paste) but I think this is a pretty good response which deciphers the sections/bases of a possible complaint and will enable more time to be spent complaining, and less deciphering the sections and grounds of relevance.

===
Relevant-Standards: I am writing to complain about the content of the show \'Illegal New Zealand\', and site standards 4, 5, 6,8.

.
Complaint-Details: Standard 8 - Responsable Programming. I believe this show was alarmist and beat up the potential threat to ordinary New Zealand. For a start the journalists acted in fear of his safety while tending to an otherwise normal transaction in a way that he may experience threat or death at the hands of any normal law abiding firearms owner if he were to be \"exposed\". This is sensationalism.

I felt the statistics given on firearm incidents should have been placed in context, i.e firearms account for 7 deaths (accident/ criminal) per year while on average Vehicles account for 300- 500 deaths (accident/ criminal) per year for example.

The host also took two small portions of conversations while at the arms expo and attempted to turn those quotes into something sinister with more over dramatic acting. One, a good one line quip that would raise a laugh at many social occasions, the other a comment by someone with a right of center slightly liberal veiw, certainly couldn\'t be called an extremist veiw.

The bag confiscation wasn\'t the near perral made out. It seemed an act of responsibility by those running the event to insure items inside were not stolen. The presence of police at the event also showed of a calm, controlled and well organised event.

The types of firearms on display were not there as a free for all, or a show of what is \"out there\" on our streets. Some of the firearms on display may have been available to a select few who hold the appropriate catagory license for such purchases.

What was wrong with stuffed animals? It\'s not barbarick or sinister in any way. Personal veiws should be withheld on issues of taste when attempting serious reporting.

The host failed to mention how many responsible traders turned down his efforts to purchase firearms without a license. Which brings me to:-

Standard 5 :- Accuracy. The shows host claims on many occasions he was able to buy firearms on two separate occasions without a license. This was a fabrication. The Ruger 10/22 purchase was completed on someone elses license, a person hired by the show. If he allowed the host to take possesion of the firearm then he is in breach of the arms act. This is also a breach of Standard 8 as it is unfair to hire a license holder to purchase a firearm then pass it over as being now owned by your host.

The second purchase will have knowone acknowledging the seller is a responsible license holder, but he was guilty of taking your hired license holder at face value when asked if he had a firearms license. As he did hold a license he was the purchaser, not the shows host.

Your host was not able to purchase firearms without a license. Please note your hired license holder was in breach of the law placing a loaded firearm a vehicle. I expect as a responsible employer you should see to it that a compaint is laid with police.

Standard 4:- Controvesial Issues.

There are 10\'s of thousands of responsible lawabiding firearm owners in New Zealand who enjoy hunting and shooting sports. This show, which was tax payer funded propaganda for anti gun groups was over dramatised, inaccurate, alarmist, and gave little or no time toward presenting facts on firearm ownership in a positive way. With the exception of Greg Occonor, the show consisted of a journalist turned poor actor, and didn\'t even closely resemble true firearm ownership or trading.

Standard 6:- Fairness. TVNZ has run a series of highly biased shows regarding Hunting, Firearms and ownership, and licensing in the rescent past.
1/ There was a current affairs programme (20/20?) belittleing how easy it was to obtain a firearms license, which was not a true representation of the process.

2/ You ran a well edited show on Closeup showing a bunch of twits duck hunting which portrayed them as being anything but the extreme fringe of our sport.

3/ The programme this complaint is related to.

4/ There are many instances on your news bulletins, such as the AK47 totting terrorists displayed for any firearm incident. This seemed to stop after I informed you of this and about your use of the term \"Long Barrelled Shotgun\" in a news item, when infact the average firearm owner could have told you it was an air rifle. Firearm issues seem to get disproportionate attention at TVNZ. Irresponsible alarmist, biased doctrine

**ManDownUnder** · 11th July 2009, 11:37

I am also going to advocate the guy the set off the rilfe in the middle of town be identified and prosecuted. I think he's a loose unit flagrantly disobeying the law which puts us all in a bad light if we don't condemn his actions.