Clutchless shifting

[notme]

As an aside, you realise you can do this in a car (carefully)don't you? In fact, very old cars require the technique....

[McJim]

Found a website that mentions Crotchless Shitting but didn't think you folks would be interested.

[Fat Tony]

Found a website that mentions Crotchless Shitting but didn't think you folks would be interested.

PMSL you wrong-un!

I've always clutchless shift (up not down), though 1-2 can be a bit hit and miss sometimes even on a Suzuki box. No evidence of any detrimental effect at all even after 55000km of abuse on my old GSXR600k1

[SuperDave]

Interesting how you say it would be easier on a smaller bike Allun because I personally couldn't get this right on my old ZXR, just sounded and felt like I was doing the bike much damage each time I tried.

However now that I'm familiar with the 600 I tend to Upshift 95% without the clutch, though the shift from 1st to 2nd requires a much better technique than any of the other shifts. As others have said I wouldn't recommend downshifting without the clutch, I've done it by accident a few times and it's either been super smooth or very jerky. But still, its not so much useful on a downshift, as when doing so it's easier to use the lever. However I personally find it quite hard to upshift with the clutch when accelerating hard.

[rwh]

I've been trying it a bit; I don't seem to get the upshifts very smooth. However, when slowing for a corner without braking, the downshifts are very smooth if I'm concentrating - except second to first. I just rest my foot on the lever as I approach the corner with throttle right off, then give the slightest blip and it changes down beautifully. Less nice if I blip it too much ...

I was discussing this with a friend the other day, and he said that racers will often do the upshifts using the rev limiter - preload the lever, and it shifts automagically when it hits redline, just like backing off the throttle. Is this common practice?

[mazz1972]

I learnt to ride offroad on a shitty old XR and hardly ever used the clutch coz it was a bit stiff and couldn't be arsed adjusting it.

I usually do use the clutch these days, sometimes not....sometimes find myself forgetting to use it when I've been riding my quad which has an automatic clutch.

Generally only upshifting, it works a treat.

Hubby hardly ever uses the clutch on his DRZ400.

[notme]

Interesting how you say it would be easier on a smaller bike Allun because I personally couldn't get this right on my old ZXR, just sounded and felt like I was doing the bike much damage each time I tried.

However now that I'm familiar with the 600 I tend to Upshift 95% without the clutch, though the shift from 1st to 2nd requires a much better technique than any of the other shifts. As others have said I wouldn't recommend downshifting without the clutch, I've done it by accident a few times and it's either been super smooth or very jerky. But still, its not so much useful on a downshift, as when doing so it's easier to use the lever. However I personally find it quite hard to upshift with the clutch when accelerating hard.

It's a big generalization, generally sprotsbikes will be lighter than crusiers, with less engine flywheel effect, and potentially less traction (from less weight on the rear wheel.) A dirtbike should be easier still, because you (probably) have far less traction on the rear wheel, a lighter bike again, and smaller engine with less flywheel effect again. Clutchless upshifts should be easy (barring mechanical issues) - so maybe the ZXR had a worn box or something?


That first link in my post above really does explain it all very well

[Motu]

racers will often do the upshifts using the rev limiter - preload the lever, and it shifts automagically when it hits redline, just like backing off the throttle. Is this common practice?

Some guys used to shift with the kill button - a button on the left bar,and just fan it for an upshift.I've never had problems with clutchless shifting,just a flick of the throttle.It's always easier to do them in a full throttle going hard type action...although on an older bike,like my old XS650,I'll sometimes just feel the gears through at slow speeds - the trucks I learnt to drive were old '60's style crash boxes,so it comes pretty easy to me.

Clutchless downshifts are ok,but again,you have to do them very hard and aggressive,or very slow.2 strokes are great for clutchless up or down shifts - I often accidently down shift on the DT230,with my foot waving in the air on and off the peg,sometimes I brush the lever and I'm down a gear at the wrong time!

[zadok]

I'm with cowpoos and sugilite on this one. Upshifting from 2nd up is no problem. I mastered the art of downshifting without the clutch as well, but was advised against it, for the previously mentioned reason.
My previous bike was very 'clunky' and I really needed to use the clutch all the time, so it seems it can depend on the bike you have. I'm sure most will be fine on the upshift.

[Masterchop]

[QUOTE=cowpoos;729017]clutchless up shifting is totally fine....won't harm your gear box at all....roll off the gas a lil....click it up a gear and bingo....
changing down without the clutch can be very detramental to your gear box...especially the selector fork...I don't and wouldn't recomend it...

Yea, What he said.

I have done it forever,since moto cross ,road racing and road riding and never had a problem with a gearbox.
Especially when riding hard up changes are much faster,have done the odd down change clutchless aswell that seem to work ok but I dont like it so much.

[Shaun]

You can actually apply pressure on the lever first before rolling off the throttle and when you do roll off the throttle the next gear clicks in far smoother than waiting till rolling off before putting presure on the lever!

This works a treat BUT, by pre loading your gear leaver you now have the selector fork ingaged or rubbing on another metel part, in time this will damage your selector forks, best way is just timing it yourself to look after your gearbox

[Motu]

by pre loading your gear leaver you now have the selector fork ingaged or rubbing on another metel part, in time this will damage your selector forks

When air shift splitters came out on trucks some drivers would preselect and the gear would slam straight in when they unloaded with a fan on the clutch.It was pretty obvious when you pulled the box down,real heavy selector fork wear.Now most trucks are owner driver they have learnt not to do it the hard way...through their pocket!

[Ghost Lemur]

Some guys used to shift with the kill button - a button on the left bar,and just fan it for an upshift.I've never had problems with clutchless shifting,just a flick of the throttle.It's always easier to do them in a full throttle going hard type action...although on an older bike,like my old XS650,I'll sometimes just feel the gears through at slow speeds - the trucks I learnt to drive were old '60's style crash boxes,so it comes pretty easy to me.

Clutchless downshifts are ok,but again,you have to do them very hard and aggressive,or very slow.2 strokes are great for clutchless up or down shifts - I often accidently down shift on the DT230,with my foot waving in the air on and off the peg,sometimes I brush the lever and I'm down a gear at the wrong time!

Found the CRM loves clutchless ups. Did it by accident and it was so much smoother than my usual crappy changes, so don't think I'll bother with the clutch. Still use it going down though.

It's going to take me a while to get used to the CRM. It's a totally different beast to the old CB, doesn't help that I'm a complete white-knuckled newbie still.

[SuperDave]

... - so maybe the ZXR had a worn box or something?

Most probably, the thing did have 117,000kms on the clock

[sAsLEX]

This works a treat BUT, by pre loading your gear leaver you now have the selector fork ingaged or rubbing on another metel part, in time this will damage your selector forks, best way is just timing it yourself to look after your gearbox

Thanks I didnt mean pulling hard on the thing just a light pressure, but I do see where your coming from and with nearly 70k up on the beast it might be time to use the proper method.