What's the best new model bike for trail riding

[tysonzane]

Don't need to much more mate, - you don't work for KTM do you? - haha

Thanks for the advise - I asked for a quote - including most of your recommedations (forgot the overflow bottle though - bugger).

Naa dont work for KTM but am pretty good friends with a KTM dealer who convinced me and my rather large group of riders who were converted from Suzuki's and me and my father from Honda's. We call it the orange club now haha.

KTM dont make a overflow bootle as they believe it is not needed for casual off road activities or short burst races but im doing neither so i've opted for it. I imported it for about $50 through EBAY, its a very simple design and i considered replicating so if you're a very handy man then you could make your own.

Im not sure if its possible but i'd be keen to know that if in the future (like the single cam KTM's) you could swap piston/barrell to get a larger capacity. Like put a 450SXF barrell on the 250excf (not sure what cc that would make), because then you'll have 6 speed (SX is only 4 and they're having trouble converting it to 6 this year ) and the road kit and all the other enduro stuff. Because the 250exc (single cam) was quite dissapionting in terms of power so the 350SXS big bore option was available (which i think may have been a piston and barrell off a 450) and then made the 250 (now a 350cc) into a pearler of a bike.

The 400 exc could also be an option for you, im not completely sure on the wieght this year but last year the wieght and handling type setup was exactly the same (because it was ultimately the barrell and piston that was different between the 2 models). The 400 has got a much more softer hit and linear power delivery then the 450 which is a bit more brutal. If you're considering a DRZ400 then definately have a look at the 400 exc as it has a bit more power across the first half and the same type of linear power delivery but quite a bit more smooth power up top where as the DRZ tappers off. But something else to consider is that 2007 maybe the last year of single cam 400's so it might be outdated by 2008, i dont know...

[merv]

I considered buying a 450EXC two years ago from Motomart and was impressed with the general finish and fittings of the KTM, but then I checked the specs and for a general dirt/road kind of guy like me I was disgusted at the gear ratios. The damn KTMs all have the same bottom end and the same gear ratios so whether you wanted an SX, MX or enduro type machine they were all the bloody same except for some secondary ratio differences. The EXC should have had a wide ratio box, it didn't, so I bought a WR Yamaha instead and have no complaints about that though six gears would have been better than the five it has, still with a wider spread than the six speed KTM. Ridiculous you say, for sure.

[notch]

merv, are you sure about that? Maybe it was a misprint... I was sure the sx definately has different ratios to the exc, and then even the mxc... maybe 2005 was a dud year!

[crazyxr250rider]

................................WR450 - Good mate rides one and he's done 90hrs no worries. He's a big guy though and often comments on the power being too much........

Dude Im 14, if I found the power smooth and manageable enough then you should be able to manage you will just get sick of doing piston and rings on honda's,DR-Z are over weight pigs......(fine to ride but wait until you get it suck....)stick with the proven performer...

[notch]

Here's the 2007 ratios:

Gear ratios for 2007 250cc 2 stroke models
sx xc xcw
1 0.50 0.47 0.47
2 0.63 0.62 0.65
3 0.75 0.75 0.83
4 0.88 0.88 1.00
5 1.05 1.05 1.26

Gaps between gears
sx xc xcw
1-2 25.0% 31.9% 40.1%
2-3 20.0% 21.9% 26.3%
3-4 16.7% 16.7% 21.1%
4-5 19.7% 19.7% 26.1%

[merv]

Sorry didn't make myself too clear I meant EXCR because I am talking the 4-strokes. I checked the guff I have from 2 years ago and what I'm moaning about is the primary ratio - back then they were all running 33/76 gearing which is only 2.3:1 whereas my WR250 runs 3.353:1 and a WR450 2.82:1. I know the SX only had 4 speeds and the box ratios themselves were all different but I wanted a much greater spread on the EXCR 250 or 450 between 1st and 6th particularly to have a lower 1st gear so if the going gets tough you can putter along more like a trials rider than roosting and slipping the clutch. e.g. on rocky tight ground or in trees and stuff like that. I rode the EXCR and for a dude like me the gears were just too close and put me right off.

The actual box ratio for first gear on the WR250 is 31/13 whereas the 450EXCR was 34/14 so not a lot different there. Now you can see just how tall the gearing was in first because of that primary ratio and the problem is for a dude like me who wanted to ride slow trails and fast and not always try to ride like Stefan Merriman I could not make up the difference in sprocket changes. Overall we are talking of the WR running about a 30:1 first gear on stock sprockets and the EXCR 16.7:1 so damn near twice as tall.

As for choice of bike, try them and buy what suits you, that's what I do and some probably think my tastes and expectations are totally weird. However if that's what I feel comfortable riding then that's what I like.

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Dude Im 14, if I found the power smooth and manageable enough then you should be able to manage you will just get sick of doing piston and rings on honda's,DR-Z are over weight pigs......(fine to ride but wait until you get it suck....)stick with the proven performer...

Mate - at 14 I had no fear either and there was no motorbike too powerfull! At 36 - I need to know I can go to work on Monday & pay for the toys my son is going to start wanting real soon! My mate with the WR has stacked it and hurt himself good a couple of times now and each time, he's said he was just pushing it too hard. I agree the power is managable and comes smoothly - it just never seems to stop coming though! I get a little concerned when you can't keep a front wheel down with the throttle on full for the first 3 gears! I hate to sound like I'm getting old, I need to have fun but stay in control......don't ya hate growing up!

[kro]

get a klx 300....reliable as hell.....and handles a bit better than the klx 250....
but with alot more grunt....and only $7495

I'd go the KLX 300 too, they have a damn good spread of power, and are a damn site more comfortable than most other bikes of their age. My Brother bought an 06 model Jan this year for the price cowpoos quoted, and got a Pro circuit T4 thrown in to the deal.

I didn't think there would be a lot of difference between a 250 and a 300, but there is a BIG difference.

[tysonzane]

All of the KTM's i've riden i havent had a problem with the gearing in fact i have always thought that the first gear on the recent model EXC is far to short and the top speed was waay to high. I've brought the top speed down on my bike to around 140kph in 6th which is still too high for trail riding ( i want to get the gain in acceleration from dropping the max speed), i do however understand about just been able to idle through first gear in really tricky bits and the KTM is very good at doing that because they're actually quite a hard bike to stall which was a big difference my friends noticed between the EXC's and the DRZ400. So just make sure you ride one to see if its the same with the new 250's, remember you can also tune this quite a bit by fiddling with sprockets. Even on my ex 350 EXC with the 6speed SX gearbox (from the 250 SX) with a first gear of about 15-20 kph it would still idle along nicely and be quite hard to stall, it was just on hard hairpin corners you had to clutch to keep the revs up and stay in the power but boy did it make up for it with how close the gearing was!!!

The EXC's engine can be compared to "tractor power" because they're quite torquey with a smooth torque and power pattern and if you're going up a hill and start to lose it or find you're a gear too high you can just chug along with what you're in and its very unlikely to stall.

I understand what you're saying about buying a bike that is fun to ride and wont hurt you, the EXC fits this categeory very nicely. A major difference between the EXC and the Hondas i switched from was that i was not finishing rides with a sore back or other body parts and then having to go easy on your body for the next week. There are a lot of little things about KTM's that you'll discover after owning one and then absolutely fall in love with it!

[crazyxr250rider]

Mate - at 14 I had no fear either and there was no motorbike too powerfull! At 36 - I need to know I can go to work on Monday & pay for the toys my son is going to start wanting real soon! My mate with the WR has stacked it and hurt himself good a couple of times now and each time, he's said he was just pushing it too hard. I agree the power is managable and comes smoothly - it just never seems to stop coming though! I get a little concerned when you can't keep a front wheel down with the throttle on full for the first 3 gears! I hate to sound like I'm getting old, I need to have fun but stay in control......don't ya hate growing up!

fair enough although there is ACC..........(just kidding)

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Well, I rode the 250 excf and it created more questions than it answered. I was suprised at how little torque it had down low. There is no doubt that the power came quickly once the revs climbed and it was very impressive in this respect. I'm going to give the 450 EXC a go next weekend and see how that goes - maybe it won't scare me as much as I thought it would? Or maybe I just need to teach myself how to ride again? The old KLX was just so different down low!

Thanks for your all your feedback - To the KLX300 fans, if it had an electric leg I'd be looking at it as I'm not going back to kickers only again! I also want to stroke my ego a little with something that has some "bling" factor to it?

[merv]

I imagined all the modern 4 strokes with short strokes engines would suffer lack of low end torque. Once Brendan from Sawyers got me to try the WR250F how wrong I was hence I bought one. It pulls like an XR250 down low but then screams on another 4,500rpm to 13,500rpm. I guess its all in the high compression and electronic control.

As per my comments above the only thing I found wrong riding the KTM, and this applied to the 250EXCR I rode was the gear ratios were too close. I didn't notice a lack of low end, but it did vibrate worse than I expected.

What am I telling you? Well I have found the Yamaha engine nothing short of fantastic. No complaints about torque or power at any revs and it thumps so hard it really hooks traction, something the XR's can do, but my DR250 never would hence I dumped it. Engine longevity though is presumably far better on the older style KLX300 motor not being as highly strung and probably having a piston not as flat as a pancake.

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Cheers Merv - valid comments- for some reason I've ended up wearing these orange tinted shades and I'm struggling to see much else. Read a great review on the new Yamaha's in Dirtbike downunder and I'm still circling back to KTM? I'll see how the 450 goes on the weekend and go from there. I've heard the new Yamaha 250 is not due to christmas and I'd prefer to launch into the Glenn Murray, Paeroa and Paparimu trails rides in early Dec on a new something!

[Motu]

I imagined all the modern 4 strokes with short strokes engines would suffer lack of low end torque.

A common and obvious misconception Merv,we are taught to think short stroke means revs - but the trials guys found out in the late '60's that a radicaly short stroke meant stump pulling torque.A long stroke motor ''hangs on'',typical of an old British single,but a short stroke gives that pull right off the bottom,the stuff that pulls the front wheel up like it's conectted by a wire to the throttle.But the trick that has taken so long to get to us was to get the spread of power.We all remember powerbands in both 2 and 4 strokes....they are a thing of the past,now motors make power right from idle to 5 figure rpms.

[Woody@nztrails.com]

XXX moto leant me their brand new 450 EXC for the weekend and I've been having a good fang around the farm. It has the low down pull the 250 was lacking and the spread and manageability of the power was spot on for me. The new Yamaha will probably be very similar but the orange just looks so good!

It seems my pre-conceptions about 450's was mis-guided. Should have known better.

Don't really want to take it back tomorrow! Have to see what kind of deal the guys can put together for me!

Thanks for all your advise and thoughts guys! Look out for me at Glenn Murray, I'll be the bloke with the stupid grin on his face!