Yes, falling off *does* hurt

**jrandom** · 12th January 2004, 09:41

Well, *duh*, you might say, upon reading the thread title.

Anyway, here's a story for y'all. My (much younger and even MORE irresponsible than I) sister was staying with friends on Waiheke the last few days. She's never been on a bike or scooter of any description, even as a pillion. Her mate rides a scooter, and on Saturday afternoon was telling her all about how wonderful, useful and cheap it is. Upon hearing which, of course, my sister gets excited, runs outside and asks for a go. Her friend hands her the keys, points to the throttle and says 'twist this'.

Sister jumps on, starts engine, grabs throttle and rockets straight across the road and into a ditch. She was wearing shorts, blouse and jandals at the time. She spent the next few hours bleeding very inconveniently and picking gravel out of both legs with tweezers. She still can't walk comfortably.

It bears remembering that *anything* on two wheels requires protective gear, and letting someone on the road on a powered bike of any sort, even if it has the engine displacement of a shot glass, is downright irresponsible unless you're sure they know how to control it. It seems that 'freeze with throttle open' followed by an inability to turn or remember how to use the brakes is the usual behaviour for a non-rider when piloting a bike for the first time.

I hope the accident doesn't put her off riding.

**Hitcher** · 12th January 2004, 10:38

I shudder and get sharp piercing pain in my privates whenever I see underprotected riders -- particularly people on scooters wearing shorts, sandals and tee-shirts. Obviously the premise is that scooter riders don't fall off. Also Harley riders who don't wear gloves and wear open-face helmets. Obviously they've never encountered bees or stone chips at 100kmh...

**KATWYN** · 12th January 2004, 10:55

I cringe as well when I see shorts T-shirts and jandels being worn on a
bike on a nice hot beautiful day. In a perfect world, where there is
no such thing as road rash it would be the ultimate way to ride.....

After seeing what happens to skin and bone when someone has ridden
in jeans and no knee cup protection I have forever being cured of
putting full gears on -even when riding "5 minutes" down the road.

Not rego'd at the moment so have missed out on the last two weeks of
lovely weather riding!

Hope this post works and goes through.

**James Deuce** · 12th January 2004, 11:01

Originally Posted by Hitcher

I shudder and get sharp piercing pain in my privates whenever I see underprotected riders -- particularly people on scooters wearing shorts, sandals and tee-shirts. Obviously the premise is that scooter riders don't fall off. Also Harley riders who don't wear gloves and wear open-face helmets. Obviously they've never encountered bees or stone chips at 100kmh...

Motorcyclist magazine did a great expose on protective gear about 10 years ago. While not entirely scientific or representative of most accidents, they got a square of the fabric to be tested weighted it with a piece of concrete and dropped them off the back of a moving pickup truck at different speeds to test the reaction of the fabric fibres to both the impact and being dragged along the road surface while weighted down.

Denim exploded (

) at 50mph with such violence that it broke the tether keeping the concrete block and fabric together, while "ballistic" kevlar took a great deal of damage in the initial impact, but lasted 8 times longer than leather in the drag test. Leather maybe picked up some scuff marks in the impact and at lower speeds (50mph and under) wasn't really marked, but frayed quite badly over 200kph. Cordura took the initial impact well but melted over 100mph. Under that speed the weave was damaged badly and wore through in spots.

Interestingly Motorcyclist suggested that protective clothing manufacturers should combine Cordura and Kevlar for the ideal in protective street gear, and recommended sticking with leather for racing, especially if the racing suit was reinforced and overlaid with kevlar. Looks like most of the manufacturers listened.

Pigskin vaporised over 100mph and left a streak under the block that eventually vanished too.

**Motu** · 12th January 2004, 11:14

When I was living on Waiheke the ambulance drivers spent the summer picking gravel out of scantily clad young girls who rented scooters but had never riden a bike - you only need a car lisence for them.

**Hitcher** · 12th January 2004, 11:22

Originally Posted by Motu

When I was living on Waiheke the ambulance drivers spent the summer picking gravel out of scantily clad young girls who rented scooters but had never riden a bike - you only need a car lisence for them.

Now this is another hobby horse of mine (yes, I have a large stable for all of them) -- car licence eligibility to ride a scooter. What goes on here? I suppose the logic goes along the lines that you don't need a licence to ride a push bike and that mopeds and scooters only have little engines so are some sort of limbo zone between push bikes and proper motorbikes.

I reckon if what you ride is fast enough to ride with the big dogs, you should have to have a big dog licence.

**k14** · 12th January 2004, 11:26

Yeah, some of them even think of themselves as bikers!!!

Like the guy one the scooter at teh lights that gave me a nod. I just shook my head and was cracking up laughing

But i dont think i have even seen someone on a scooter with leathers. All of these kids that dont have a clue. I used to be one of those. Rode my Yamaha 50 to school for about 2 years or so. Never fell off and always wore shorts when i was riding to school. Even bare feet sometimes!!

**georgedubyabush** · 12th January 2004, 11:40

Not just on road either. How many fatal farm quad accidents are there without protective gear?
My girlfriend lost the end part of her thumb in a 'leave the quad in reverse, grab the throttle and brake to stop it rolling, and get flung backwards through a barbed wire fence' debacle.
I feel entirely at blame for leaving it in reverse, without the brake on, getting off and opening a gate.

**Urban Terrorist** · 12th January 2004, 13:15

Originally Posted by k14

Yeah, some of them even think of themselves as bikers!!!

Like the guy one the scooter at teh lights that gave me a nod. I just shook my head and was cracking up laughing

Some of us are bikers too, have been for many years and just enjoy riding what is a great tool for an urban environment. I get waves from other riders on all sorts of bikes. Elitism from someone on a learner bike, that's funny.

Originally Posted by k14

But i dont think i have even seen someone on a scooter with leathers.

I'll get a photo taken and post it one day.

I also cringe when I see people riding any bike/scooter without some decent gear, but only give my opinion if asked or someone questions why I wear full leathers/waterproofs, boots, gloves etc. My body, my experiences, my choice. They are allowed the same, even if others know better.

**k14** · 12th January 2004, 13:26

Sorry, am i right at assuming you are mocking me for riding a 250cc bike?? Come on, i wasnt trying to insult you, but a scooter isnt a motorbike!! If you want a motorbike, buy one!!!

Lets not start getting personal.

**jrandom** · 12th January 2004, 13:41

Originally Posted by Urban Terrorist

My body, my experiences, my choice. They are allowed the same, even if others know better.

It's *NOT* your choice when it affects others to their detriment. Somebody has to pay the tax bill for your hospital stay while you recover from the skin grafts, y'know...

So good on ya for wearing leathers

and hmmm... slagging off scooter riders from the dizzy heights of a restricted-license 250 is just a bit rich!

Is one only admitted to the Brotherhood of Bikers when the engine is forward of the back wheel? Or is it more to do with having to swing your leg backwards, instead of forwards, when you get on the machine? I think *anyone* who doesn't sit in a cage deserves some props. And a 50cc scooter is a better tool for getting around town than, say, a Goldwing. Or are Goldwings not admitted to the Brotherhood? Yeah, that's a good idea. And let's make it so that Harleys and Jap cruisers aren't allowed in the club either. We're all too elite for that lot. Let's just make it so that unless you ride a sportbike, you're not Hardcore and we won't wave or nod at you. Loser. Hah.

You over there? Yes, you, on the XJR1300. It looks pretty pansy, with no fairings or anything. Bet you can't go very fast without falling off the back, eh? Eh? *You* can just f*ck off and join all the scooter, Goldwing and Harley riders crying because they can't join the club.

In fact, I think we should just make it easy and say that unless you ride a 600cc supersport, you're not allowed in.

Oops? You're on a 250? F*ck off and die, lightweight.

**Urban Terrorist** · 12th January 2004, 13:45

Originally Posted by k14

Sorry, am i right at assuming you are mocking me for riding a 250cc bike?? Come on, i wasnt trying to insult you, but a scooter isnt a motorbike!! If you want a motorbike, buy one!!!

Lets not start getting personal.

No, I was mocking the fact you were mocking someone else for not riding what you consider to be a "real" bike. If thats what someone wants to ride then good on them. I also have a "normal" bike which I enjoy riding.

**Indiana_Jones** · 12th January 2004, 13:49

how much is a pair of draggin' jeans? I've been looking at some protective clothing, does anyone know any cheap yet good jackets and pants ?
Thanks, go FXR

-Indy

**James Deuce** · 12th January 2004, 13:52

jrandom

I can't breathe

Jim2

**wkid_one** · 12th January 2004, 13:53

Originally Posted by Indiana_Jones

how much is a pair of draggin' jeans? I've been looking at some protective clothing, does anyone know any cheap yet good jackets and pants ?
Thanks, go FXR

-Indy

IMO Draggins are good (about $229) - but only for sliding. They aren't going to protect you in the initial impact when you hit the road - or if you hit anything while sliding.......and in NZ's roading conditions - this is more than likely. You won't get friction burns etc - but you may break your knee cap etc.......but you won't get friction burns. But they are better than no protective gear.

How big are you Indy - I have my jacket and pants for sale (along with leathers)