Tyre heat-cycles

[SuperDave]

I've come across a few comments with reference to tyre heat cycles lately.

I'm curious to find out a bit more info about this issue, for example if you compared my decent current road tyres being Metzeler M3's compared to say a more higher spec racing tyre like SC0 and SC1 Supercorsas and how the issue of heat cycles related to tyre effectiveness and wear compares between the two types of tyres.

I'm curious as to how effective Supercorsas would be if I chose to run them on the road as well. I've got a good few trackdays lined up soon so I'm thinking these tyres would be great for use on the track since that is what they are designed for. But seeing that virtually 90% of my road riding is weekend sport riding I'm thinking that these tyres would not be wasted if I chose to use these tyres on the road as well.

I've got this notion in my head that 'race' tyres like Supercorsa's can only go through several heat cycles before they are no good. Is this true?

Any decent advice would be greatly appreciated.

[The_Dover]

don't bother, stick with the powers or m3's for road use

[kiwifruit]

don't bother, stick with the powers or m3's for road use

decent advise there

[Blackflagged]

I`m no tyre tech ,but as i understand it!Race tyres are designed to work HOT(and only last though ,so may heat cycles before they are stuffed ie not sticky anymore),road tyres use different mix and are alot longer lasting,don`t need to get as hot.Super corsa pro`s are a Race tyre(slick type compound),that`s Dot approved,perfect for race classes were you have to use a dot aproved tyre.Don`t get confused with Diablo Corsa`s,an excellent Road track tyre!

[texmo]

Do you any of you people have any real knowledge of tyres or are you just spouting shit?

[vtec]

Don't get all aggro Tex. It's the main reason why the top racers only use tyres for one meeting, cause they only let them go through one heat cycle... Warm them up with the tyre warmers in the morning, race on them, put the warmers back on, and keep them warm all day. Then sell the tyres cheap with plenty of tread to noobs like me and you tex. They are good enough to go hard on, but not good enough to be the best.

For road and track use, don't get the stickiest rubber, get... I'm not sure what to get, but don't buy the best race tyre out there. It'll lose its edge over the road tyres after a bit, and wear much faster. I'm not the one to ask about what tyre to get, cause I only know about the tyres that go on CBR250's, but I'm sure there's a wealth of knowledge out there on these forums.

[texmo]

Don't get all aggro Tex.
I'm not the one to ask about what tyre to get

Im not. its the above statment that gets me, there are too many experts on KB that dont know anything, or know a little. A little knowledge can be more dangerous than none.

[R1madness]

I always used ex race SC0 front and SC1 Rear on my R1. They are great on the road. Good grip wet or dry. You just need to be smooth and trust them. I went to the Brass monkey 2 up a couple of years ago and it snowed really heavy. Didn't bother the Supercorsas tho. They handeled it just fine.
Agreed that the top racers pull them off because after one race they dont grip as well, but on the road you cant use all the grip anyway. Keep an eye on the tyre pressures and you will get 5000km from the rear and more from the front. Vary your pressures to suit the type of riding you are doing. I use 30psi front 32psi rear when scratching. Up to 32 front and 35 rear for cruising and up again to 32 front and 36 rear if going 2 up or for distance work.

By the way you should not leave your warmers on all day. Put them on as soon as you get back in the pits but dont turn them on until 20 mins before your race otherwise you overheat the carcase and get less grip.

[Blackflagged]

Im not. its the above statment that gets me, there are too many experts on KB that dont know anything, or know a little. A little knowledge can be more dangerous than none.

Don`t blow a blood vessel,just trying to answer the guys question!If you know more,maybe you could answer it better!

[R1madness]

Chill man. People get a bit defencive here because you cant see the expression on their face while they are typing so you cant tell if they are just pulling your leg or winding you up for fun. Have a laugh.

[vtec]

Im not. its the above statment that gets me, there are too many experts on KB that dont know anything, or know a little. A little knowledge can be more dangerous than none.

I was just pointing out that I don't know what the different tyres are for the best bikes, but I do know about the heat cycles, and the wear rates on the stickiest tyres, that's why I offered that info, and I am allowed to offer that info without saying what the best tyres are.

P.S. Thanks for bumping my stolen trailer threads dude.

[manyrevs]

I know it's been almost a month since the original thread was opened but what the heck...

I have been riding for about 30yrs now and have owned/used many different tyres in that time. I have noticed many common features about tyres and the way they wear and tear. In those earlier days, when I was a teenager and had just started riding, I would use any old tyre I could buy and it seemed, the cheaper, the better. I would also use second-hand tyres (god help me - what was I thinking..???). As a consequence of using second-hand tyres I soon learned just how bad they 'didn't' stick and they were always rock hard and seemed to feel bone dry to the touch, while new tyres felt soft and sticky. I was fairly ignorant in those days and it took me maybe into my 20's to actually realise that tyres had a usable lifespan and cannot be ridden til the canvas pokes through...

Then all of a sudden I started buying more expensive bikes. 4-stroke bikes were new on the scene and I decided to get more serious about tyre choice and how they handled and wore. The one thing I did not do however, was to replace them long before they got bald, still opting for maximum mileage for the money I spent. Always, the tyres seemed to get harder as they wore. I simply fathomed out that the constant heating then cooling of the tyres continually cured them to the point where they could not live up to their reputations and they would slip and slide all over the show when pushed, even some good brands (no names here), simply because they were drying out and loosing their grip.

Just personally, I am sure that tyres for street use (bikes) are a nightmare to design because they have to give good wet and dry grip while giving good mileage and also have to hang around for a few years. That combination of criteria is a fight within itself. On my current bike (VTR1000 - since new) with its original Dunlops, I have only done 3500 kms and I can already notice a difference to the feel. The day I got it home, I looked closely at the tyres and they were very soft and pliable. By the time I had about 1000kms on the clock I noticed they had hardened up a bit (cold) and now they seem to be a lot harder to the touch. Although this may be something that we all noticed, how many of us really know just how bad the tyre performance drops off after "x" amounts of baking sessions? Take your bike for a reasonably quick ride across the Kopu hill and back with half or quarter worn tyres, then after a few days, peel off some of those little balls of tyre that curl up around the edge of the tread and take note of just how hard they are. Your whole tyre is suffering the same effect only to a lesser degree because of its size compared to those little slithers.

The simple fact is that a tyres ability to do its job, slowly but surely degrades with use - no matter how you use it.. BUT, some types of usage will cause more or less degradation than others. Even if you left the bike standing for a handful of years without using it at all, they tyre will simply dry out by itself. Have you been to Motomail lately and seen the old CB-750 on display..??? Feel the tyre. It looks new but the tread feels like concrete. If it IS an original tyre then it will be many years old and it would most likely be lethal to ride on...

I'm not trying to say "I know all the answers" because I don't, but I bet not even the tyre manufacturers know just how long a tyre will last under every situation. They simply have to try their best to keep up with the tonnes of raw horsepower being pumped out by todays machinery and make a tyre that looks good to the world. Unfortunately, most of the tyre development comes from, and is aimed at, the race track because that's where lots of their sales will come from, YET, the track is where virtually none of the street riders needs will surface. Racetracks and roads are two different places to survive and what happens to a tyre on the racetrack seldom happens on the road...

In my very humble opinion, tyres have a VERY limited "optimum performance" lifespan and the sooner you use them, the better they should work to their original design... None of us, however, want to wear out our tyres on each ride across the hill, we all want a tyre that will last forever - Don't We...!!!

[Shaun]

I've come across a few comments with reference to tyre heat cycles lately.

I'm curious to find out a bit more info about this issue, for example if you compared my decent current road tyres being Metzeler M3's compared to say a more higher spec racing tyre like SC0 and SC1 Supercorsas and how the issue of heat cycles related to tyre effectiveness and wear compares between the two types of tyres.

I'm curious as to how effective Supercorsas would be if I chose to run them on the road as well. I've got a good few trackdays lined up soon so I'm thinking these tyres would be great for use on the track since that is what they are designed for. But seeing that virtually 90% of my road riding is weekend sport riding I'm thinking that these tyres would not be wasted if I chose to use these tyres on the road as well.

I've got this notion in my head that 'race' tyres like Supercorsa's can only go through several heat cycles before they are no good. Is this true?

Any decent advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mich Powers for the road and Race for the track.

Tyres do have a heat cycle span, normally around 4!

To get the best out of a used tyre that has been hot, and then left to sit for a while, you must alter the tyre pressure to get the tyre to run hotter than last time to get the best out of it, now by altering your tyre pressure it may affect the handling slightly, but you can never have your cake and eat it as well on a race track.

The trick to getting the very best out of a tyre time and time again, is having a very good suspension set up package,and to have the correct information on what HOT pressure the tyre likes to work at, ( Normally 4-5 PSI above cold setting) when and if you ever get this info, you need to have your tyre warmers on for an hour before going out ( only use warmers with a Thermostat that is set correctly) go do 3-5 fast laps and pull into the pit lane and have a friend check the Hot PSI ASAP, and adjust down to the optiomin setting and take the outside temp with your probe.


If you are serious about trying to get the best from used tyres, go out and buy a digital temp probe that you can stab into your tyre at the race track to get data of what temp your tyre is working at, have a mate in pit lane and do it as soon as you pull into the pit lane, NOT your pit space, as they do cool down V quick.


Used race tyres on the road or track are fine, but will not offer 100% grip as they are past there best, but no one can really ride them to there fullest on the road anyway.

Tyre Warmers

If you have the type without a thermastat in them, throw them away

If you have the type with a thermostat in them, DEFFINATELY put them on ASAP after leaving the track, and leave them on all day, it keeps the tyre in the best condition.

Hope this helps

[Fatjim]

There be some long sentences there Shaun. You must have gone to school in between race meets when you we're young. I misunderestimated you.

PS, Can I get you to gramma/speel check for me?

PPS, thanks for the info.

[Shaun]

There be some long sentences there Shaun. You must have gone to school in between race meets when you we're young. I misunderestimated you.

PS, Can I get you to gramma/speel check for me?

PPS, thanks for the info.

PRICK