MotoGP 2012

[Crasherfromwayback]

The thought of that almost has me reaching for the kleenex.

You and me both.

[Oscar]

lol. Nice. Purchase a metal detector and rummage round Yamaha's race department grounds to see if you can find the rest of it!


It arrived as cabin luggage in 1997.
Imagine walking onto a plane with an expansion chamber under yer arm these days!

There are also four YZR pistons, another YZR chamber & muffler and a chamber off of a KR3 kicking around here somewheres....

[Crasherfromwayback]

It arrived as cabin luggage in 1997.
Imagine walking onto a plane with an expansion chamber under yer arm these days!

.

Yeah for sure. If it was one for the rear cyl's they'd think it was a fucking rocket launcher!

[pritch]

Lorenzo has reportedly signed a new two year deal with Yamaha for 13/14. Nobody is really suprised that he has done that, but most (including me) are surprised that he has done so this early.

Honda has the next move?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Lorenzo has reportedly signed a new two year deal with Yamaha for 13/14. Nobody is really suprised that he has done that, but most (including me) are surprised that he has done so this early.

Honda has the next move?

Bet he added a few extra zeros to the contract! Honda will suck face and go cap in Hand to Rossi I reckon. Time he got his rightfully deserved NSR500 off them!

[tigertim20]

Bet he added a few extra zeros to the contract! Honda will suck face and go cap in Hand to Rossi I reckon. Time he got his rightfully deserved NSR500 off them!

this is looking more and more likely if the above is true!
after all the bickering and what not they have gone through to push the current format, theyd look fucking silly if they dont have a rider on their bikes next yea capable of regular podiums!

[Crasherfromwayback]

after all the bickering and what not they have gone through to push the current format, theyd look fucking silly if they dont have a rider on their bikes next yea capable of regular podiums!

I'd rather have Rossi than Pedro on my bike if it were me that wrote the cheques!

[tigertim20]

I'd rather have Rossi than Pedro on my bike if it were me that wrote the cheques!

fair call.

what I personally think would be ideal is, Lorenzo on the yamaha, rossi on the honda, with pedrosa as his sidekick on the second hoonda, Ben spies gets his act together and sits on the yamaha as well, and I think youd have a fairly good battle at the pointy end of the field most weeks.

That to happen would require both rossi, and honda eating a wee bit of humble pie though, and I dont know if both parties will be able to do it. will be interesting to see how the politics pan out.

rossi obviously would like to avoid losing face any more than necessary, so maybe they will see what happens with the next lot of regulations that are going to be announced later on - its possible i guess that control ecu's etc have the potential to work to the benefit of something like the ducati - that could be anough of a carrot to keep rossi there if he sees the regs as having a benefit for him?

wait and see now i guess

[DidJit]

I reckon Pedrosa will be the sole Repsol Honda, Marquez will be on the other factory bike under Monlau colours (to get past the Rookie Rule). Wouldn't surprise me either if Lorenzo's team mate was Dovizioso.

Nakamoto-san has already repeatedly stated that Rossi will not ride a factory Honda, but he's welcome to ask for a satellite ride.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It arrived as cabin luggage in 1997.
.

Totally off subject...but I think I just purchased a genuine Kawasaki SR125 race bike. Soon find out exactly what it is I hope.

[roogazza]

http://vimeo.com/32756097

Came across this and couldn't resist.

[DidJit]

Take note, Thomas Luthi!

[Oscar]

Espargaro's Team are appealing the successful appeal by Marquez:

http://mag.gpweek.com/#folio=12

[carbonhed]

http://vimeo.com/32756097

Came across this and couldn't resist.

:yes:

Tragic that he's on the Ducati really.

[Crasherfromwayback]

:yes:

Tragic that he's on the Ducati really.

Sure is. Wasting a whole season of what would've been awesome had he been Yam or Hon mounted.

[george formby]

Sure is. Wasting a whole season of what would've been awesome had he been Yam or Hon mounted.

Yeah, but this thread is all the betterer for it.......... :innocent:

[slowpoke]

http://vimeo.com/32756097

Came across this and couldn't resist.

YEEHAA! That get's the juices flowin' eh?

Now that Lorenzo has signed with Yamaha we just need Mr Honda and Miss Rossi to get totally shitfaced on saki/red wine and wake up in bed together for next season and hopefully we'll see more of those battles.

[Crasherfromwayback]

YEEHAA! That get's the juices flowin' eh?

Now that Lorenzo has signed with Yamaha we just need Mr Honda and Miss Rossi to get totally shitfaced on saki/red wine and wake up in bed together for next season and hopefully we'll see more of those battles.

I'm with you there. Although I fucking hate that people always blame someone winning on them simply having the 'best bike'. Still gotta use the thing properly!

[carbonhed]

I'm with you there. Although I fucking hate that people always blame someone winning on them simply having the 'best bike'. Still gotta use the thing properly!

I reckon he'll be on a factory Honda next year.

[BMWST?]

rossi wont be on a honda next year,maybe the year after.

[tigertim20]

I'm with you there. Although I fucking hate that people always blame someone winning on them simply having the 'best bike'. Still gotta use the thing properly!

I could point out that that goes both ways and stoner only won one championship in the how many years he was on the duke?

having rossi, or stoner, or jorge, or any of the regular top 7 or so riders on a shit/crt/ducati is hurting moto gp

[Crasherfromwayback]

I could point out that that goes both ways and stoner only won one championship in the how many years he was on the duke?

having rossi, or stoner, or jorge, or any of the regular top 7 or so riders on a shit/crt/ducati is hurting moto gp

I don't give a toss 'bout Stoner on the Duc etc. What I was meaning was...there are always team mates etc, riding the same bike. Like when Rossi and Lorenzo were at Yamaha. Pedro, Dovi and Stoner at Honda. So it goes... There my be small differences between bikes, but more often that not one bikes strong points only make up for their week points. Whoever sets up what they've got best and rides it the best wins. Look at the last race. Pedro had his Honda better sorted than Stoner did, also rode it better, and beat him fair and square.

Lorenzo had his Yamaha better set up than Rossi and was beating him till Rossi broke his leg. Was the Honda the best bike then? Maybe. But no cunt was sorting it/riding it well enough to win the championship on it.
Is the Yamaha the best bike this year? I think it looks like the most balanced package...but so what! Get it wrong and it doesn't matter. Ask Ben Spies.
There are many examples of guys winning championships on lesser bikes, and many examples of guys blowing championships on the best bike.

It's using what you've got as well as it can be that counts. More often than any other fucker that may also have the same/similar equipmet.

So far this year Lorenzo is that guy. I don't think it'd matter if he was on the Honda either. Like he was when he won the title...he's the class act so far this year.

[Brian d marge]

I want Rossi to sort the Duke out , they are getting there , be a shame to quit


Stephen

[Mental Trousers]

He's got to sort the Italians out before he can sort the bike. That's been the biggest problem so far, a bunch of stubborn and arrogant Italians who insist on hanging onto certain ideas, ie the L layout engine.

[pritch]

Apparently there is a clock ticking. The word seems to be that if the Duc isn't sorted by Laguna Seca Rossi will be on his bike (in a manner of speaking).

Honda have said Rossi won't get a Repsol bike but have apparently said he could "buy" a satellite ride on a factory bike.

A well known "bus mechanic/intenational golfer" recently posted that he did not approve of the rookie rule. It's very disruptive, the expensive star turn is only using the team as a stepping stone for a year, and will tend to crash a lot.

On the other hand a more senior rider (no names mentioned) will bring sponsorship, speak well, and crash less.

So it would appear that at least one member of Rossi's team has been contemplating such matters.

Dorna will be contemplating the situation too. They must lie awake in bed worrying that Rossi will get the hump and follow Biaggi & Checa to WSBK so might be disposed to seek favours/apply pressure to Honda?

[del-solider]

Here's a good read on Rossi's next move

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120613-46.htm

I think Rossi on a factory bike at Gresini would be a good option

[Brian d marge]

Apparently there is a clock ticking. The word seems to be that if the Duc isn't sorted by Laguna Seca Rossi will be on his bike (in a manner of speaking).

Honda have said Rossi won't get a Repsol bike but have apparently said he could "buy" a satellite ride on a factory bike.

A well known "bus mechanic/intenational golfer" recently posted that he did not approve of the rookie rule. It's very disruptive, the expensive star turn is only using the team as a stepping stone for a year, and will tend to crash a lot.

On the other hand a more senior rider (no names mentioned) will bring sponsorship, speak well, and crash less.

So it would appear that at least one member of Rossi's team has been contemplating such matters.

Dorna will be contemplating the situation too, They must lie awake in bed worrying that Rossi will get the hump and follow Biaggi & Checa to WSBK.

I ve been getting a lot of tweets saying the same .....I hope the rossi bike is sorted I would like to see it win

Stephen

[tigertim20]

Here's a good read on Rossi's next move

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120613-46.htm

I think Rossi on a factory bike at Gresini would be a good option

Ive thought rossi on the gresini would place him quite nicely to challenge for the title. on the bike that would have been his mate simo's - would be quite fitting I think.

I wonder, if rossi won next years championship on the sat honda, would they then offer him the full factory bike?

[Crasherfromwayback]

, would they then offer him the full factory bike?

It's what he'd already have. Same as Simo had.

[tigertim20]

It's what he'd already have. Same as Simo had.

factory bike, sattelite team wasnt it?

what i meant by factory bike was he whole package, bike, full factory support etc aka stoner.

[Crasherfromwayback]

factory bike, sattelite team wasnt it?

.

Sorry. Thought you meant he'd only have a sat bike.

[pritch]

Rossi tops FP1. Been a while!

And yes, it is wet.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Rossi tops FP1. Been a while!

And yes, it is wet.

Regardless...it's great to see!

[carbonhed]

Barbera must have balls of steel to ride that POS Ducati. Damn thing is posessed.

[cmoore]

LOL...as soon as i saw the report for FP1 i knew it must be wet....

[Crasherfromwayback]

LOL...as soon as i saw the report for FP1 i knew it must be wet....

I can only remember one season of racing that's had so much water. In world superbikes when Johnny K won the title over Slighty as his team mate.

[cmoore]

warnings of some masive storm to hit UK...but the silverstone forecast is for lightish rain on sunday.....so lorenzo was the master at the last wet one.....the honda got the wobbles and the ducati was more a duduci....should be interesting.

[pritch]

warnings of some masive storm to hit UK...


The 6.00PM TV3 News Friday showed a satellite picture of a huge cyclone right over the UK. Sadly (for Ducati fans) it'll likely have moved on by race time.

BBC weather could provide an update but the BBC forecasts are famous for mentioning every possible combination without predicting anything specific. Like ours? :whistle:

[Brian d marge]

Quack Quack said the little duck !

Stephen

[BMWST?]

#19 takes pole ,then #11,then#1 nicky and VR crash at high speed on the same corner about 10 min apart

HERTZ BRITISH GRAND PRIXMotoGP Qualifying Practice Classification 2012 (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2012/GBR/MotoGP/QP/Classification.pdf?v1_75f92d09)

Silverstone, Saturday, June 16, 2012

<thead style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; ">
Pos.
Num.
Rider
Nation
Team
Bike
Km/h
Time
Gap 1st/Prev.

</thead><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; ">
1
19
Alvaro BAUTISTA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Alvaro+Bautista)
SPA
San Carlo Honda Gresini
Honda
313.0
2'03.303



2
11
Ben SPIES (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Ben+Spies)
USA
Yamaha Factory Racing
Yamaha
309.5
2'03.409
0.106 / 0.106


3
1
Casey STONER (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Casey+Stoner)
AUS
Repsol Honda Team
Honda
313.6
2'03.423
0.120 / 0.014


4
99
Jorge LORENZO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Jorge+Lorenzo)
SPA
Yamaha Factory Racing
Yamaha
308.7
2'03.763
0.460 / 0.340


5
26
Dani PEDROSA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Dani+Pedrosa)
SPA
Repsol Honda Team
Honda
313.1
2'03.835
0.532 / 0.072


6
8
Hector BARBERA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Hector+Barbera)
SPA
Pramac Racing Team
Ducati
314.6
2'03.876
0.573 / 0.041


7
69
Nicky HAYDEN (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Nicky+Hayden)
USA
Ducati Team
Ducati
309.5
2'04.162
0.859 / 0.286


8
4
Andrea DOVIZIOSO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Andrea+Dovizioso)
ITA
Monster Yamaha Tech 3
Yamaha
311.7
2'04.304
1.001 / 0.142


9
6
Stefan BRADL (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Stefan+Bradl)
GER
LCR Honda MotoGP
Honda
314.6
2'05.035
1.732 / 0.731


10
46
Valentino ROSSI (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Valentino+Rossi)
ITA
Ducati Team
Ducati
309.7
2'05.416
2.113 / 0.381


11
41
Aleix ESPARGARO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Aleix+Espargaro)
SPA
Power Electronics Aspar
ART
292.0
2'06.283
2.980 / 0.867


12
14
Randy DE PUNIET (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Randy+de+Puniet)
FRA
Power Electronics Aspar
ART
292.4
2'06.303
3.000 / 0.020


13
68
Yonny HERNANDEZ (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Yonny+Hernandez)
COL
Avintia Blusens
BQR
291.6
2'06.814
3.511 / 0.511


14
51
Michele PIRRO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Michele+Pirro)
ITA
San Carlo Honda Gresini
FTR
288.9
2'07.016
3.713 / 0.202


15
5
Colin EDWARDS (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Colin+Edwards)
USA
NGM Mobile Forward Racing
Suter
290.6
2'07.376
4.073 / 0.360


16
54
Mattia PASINI (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Mattia+Pasini)
ITA
Speed Master
ART
289.2
2'07.511
4.208 / 0.135


17
77
James ELLISON (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/James+Ellison)
GBR
Paul Bird Motorsport
ART
292.4
2'08.228
4.925 / 0.717


18
9
Danilo PETRUCCI (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Danilo+Petrucci)
ITA
Came IodaRacing Project
Ioda
276.0
2'08.686
5.383 / 0.458


19
22
Ivan SILVA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Ivan+Silva)
SPA
Avintia Blusens
BQR
286.3
2'10.092
6.789 / 1.406



17
Karel ABRAHAM (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Karel+Abraham)
CZE
Cardion AB Motoracing
Ducati






35
Cal CRUTCHLOW (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Cal+Crutchlow)
GBR
Monster Yamaha Tech 3
Yamaha




</tbody>
Weather Conditions: | Track Condition: Dry| Air: 17º| Humidity: 64%| Ground: 21ºRecords:
<tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; ">
Fastest Lap:
Lap: 15
Alvaro BAUTISTA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Alvaro+Bautista)
2'03.303
172.3 Km/h


Circuit Record Lap:
2010
Jorge LORENZO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Jorge+Lorenzo)
2'03.526
172.0 Km/h


Best Lap:
2011
Casey STONER (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Casey+Stoner)
2'02.020
174.1 Km/h

</tbody>

[pritch]

While reading various racing websites yesterday I came across a comment from some dude who thought Bautista was not good enough to be in MotoGP.

The odd weather circumstances not withstanding, Bautista might be justified in thinking,
"How's that puta?"

[Crasherfromwayback]

While reading various racing websites yesterday I came across a comment from some dude who thought Bautista was not good enough to be in MotoGP.



He well and truly deserves to be there. Tough lil cookie too.

[BMWST?]

While reading various racing websites yesterday I came across a comment from some dude who thought Bautista was not good enough to be in MotoGP.

The odd weather circumstances not withstanding, Bautista might be justified in thinking,
"How's that puta?"


if thsta true half the feild would go with him.!He was right up there in the 250s

[cmoore]

crutchlow to race....hard bastard or what......and did anyone see the ducatis go down exactly the same way in exactly the same sopt......how weird was that.....almost as if it was programmed that way....

[denill]

did anyone see the ducatis go down exactly the same way in exactly the same sopt......how weird was that.....almost as if it was programmed that way....

That was scary..................... And - not even tipped in???????????????

But even scarier - is they have to race there tomorrow. :facepalm: They don't pay them enough!

[Crasherfromwayback]

That was scary..................... And - not even tipped in???????????????

!

From memory when the got off the picks and unloaded the front?

[cmoore]

thats what it looked like....just dropped away

[Crasherfromwayback]

thats what it looked like....just dropped away

Sort of biff that does your head in. Not sure why it happened, and can't trust the thing.

[DidJit]

According to both Rossi and Hayden, the main culprit was the nature of the track. Just as you start to brake there, both men explained, there was a slight dip followed by a rise, right at the point where you are making the first move to start tipping it in for the final chicane. What's more, Andrea Dovizioso had weighed in earlier, that part of the track is very slightly off-camber, meaning that there is less of the tire on the ground than you think there is. The combination of the front unweighting as it crested the slight rise and heavy braking had been what had caused his crash, Valentino Rossi explained, the new tires having nothing to do with it. It was easy to crash there, Dovizioso had explained earlier, as it was impossible to brake fully for that corner because of the bumps.

Motomatters Saturday Round Up (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/06/16/2012_silverstone_motogp_saturday_round_u.html).

[Crasherfromwayback]

According to both Rossi and Hayden, the main culprit was the nature of the track. Just as you start to brake there, both men explained, there was a slight dip followed by a rise, right at the point where you are making the first move to start tipping it in for the final chicane. What's more, Andrea Dovizioso had weighed in earlier, that part of the track is very slightly off-camber, meaning that there is less of the tire on the ground than you think there is. The combination of the front unweighting as it crested the slight rise and heavy braking had been what had caused his crash, Valentino Rossi explained, the new tires having nothing to do with it. It was easy to crash there, Dovizioso had explained earlier, as it was impossible to brake fully for that corner because of the bumps.


.

Rider error times two then!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stoner

Spies

Lorenzo

Pedro

Bautista

[Tony.OK]

Rider error times two then!

Bloody shame as Hayden was on a pole winning lap too................ferkin Ducati's :facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Bloody shame as Hayden was on a pole winning lap too................ferkin Ducati's :facepalm:

He's been riding that nasty thing well all year I reckon.

[Brian d marge]

baltista, timed it and made front tyre work, looks like the duke still cant load the front,....if the new engine cant make the power to hide the corner entry , rossi will bail....

you heard it here, first folks

Stephen

[carbonhed]

Stoner

Lorenzo

Dovi

Pedro seems spooked over the front tire and Spies still looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Moto2 looks like it will be exciting.

Hope the weather improves.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Morning warmup.

Lorenzo

Hayden (go you good thing you!)

Stoner

[McWild]

Man Sky are rubbish.

They put Supermotard on instead of Moto2.

[sil3nt]

Live streamed moto 2 and it was awesome as usual.

[DidJit]

La mantequilla y el martillo were on full display today. That ankle of Crutchlow's has got to be hurting though — what a ride by him! Tough, tough cookie.

And in Silly Season news, my guess has already gone by the wayside: :doh:


I reckon Pedrosa will be the sole Repsol Honda, Marquez will be on the other factory bike under Monlau colours (to get past the Rookie Rule). ....

Rookie Rule to be dropped (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/06/17/rookie_rule_to_be_dropped_for_2013.html).

[Crasherfromwayback]

Another incredible display of ruthless efficiency!

[merv]

Crasher its now looking like your boy should have retired at Xmas time when he was on top.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Crasher its now looking like your boy should have retired at Xmas time when he was on top.

Looks to me like Lorenzo has wound it up a notch eh. Regardless of what Stoner is doing/thinking...doubt he'd have an answer for Lorenzo at the mo. No one has. Be his title to lose shortly.

[carbonhed]

Looks to me like Lorenzo has wound it up a notch eh. Regardless of what Stoner is doing/thinking...doubt he'd have an answer for Lorenzo at the mo. No one has. Be his title to lose shortly.

He's just relentlessly ratcheting up the pressure isn't he? Still one DNF and they're back together.

Really dissapointed for Dovi. Podium was there for the taking today... maybe even a challenge for the top step?

Both Tech III boys were quicker than Spies again today and that's with a podium dangling in front of him and sitting on the best bike in the paddock. Hats off to Crutchlow... last to sixth with a broken and dislocated ankle! :not:

Well done Bautista.

Ducati............................................ .. :wait:

[Crasherfromwayback]

He's just relentlessly ratcheting up the pressure isn't he? :

A class act for sure. Yamaha must be chuffed he's resigned for another two years!

[Mental Trousers]

A class act for sure. Yamaha must be chuffed he's resigned for another two years!

Yamaha would've needed a kick in the collective nuts if they let him get away. Now that Stoner is no longer the must have rider in the paddock Lorenzo is it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yamaha would've needed a kick in the collective nuts if they let him get away. Now that Stoner is no longer the must have rider in the paddock Lorenzo is it.

If he does win it this year it'll sum things up pretty fairly I reckon. Since 2006, two titles each to Rossi, Stoner and Lorenzo. Three legends of the sport.

[BMWST?]

i havent writtne of Stoner yet.He has a very good crew i am sure they can get some wins in and with dovi cal,and now bautita ,ot to mention spies and hayden A bad day can have you way of the front.Jlo had a big moment so he was pushin hard.I reckon when conditions are warmer and the Honda can go back onto the harder tyres we will see some more CS magic

[Cleve]

i havent writtne of Stoner yet.He has a very good crew i am sure they can get some wins in and with dovi cal,and now bautita ,ot to mention spies and hayden A bad day can have you way of the front.Jlo had a big moment so he was pushin hard.I reckon when conditions are warmer and the Honda can go back onto the harder tyres we will see some more CS magic

James Ellison (I think it was) was quoted in recent Brit magazine (earlier in year) saying that the season would be interesting as basically the first 1/2 was mostly Lorenzo land and the 2nd 1/2 were more Stoner tracks. So the season may not be over yet folks...

[Reckless]

Good race some intense passing there for a while :niceone:

Spies seems to be getting it back at least he's in front for a few laps now? better than the first few races.

Yeh ythat was a good ride last to sixth, home crowd, he might be puting himself up for a factory ride at this rate?

From the comments after they simply cant get the Honda to like the new tyres.
Where they seem to suit Lorenzo?

[roogazza]

If he does win it this year it'll sum things up pretty fairly I reckon. Since 2006, two titles each to Rossi, Stoner and Lorenzo. Three legends of the sport.

I like it better when the sums are done from say, 2001 !!! LOL

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I like it better when the sums are done from say, 2001 !!! LOL

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Course you would. But even you would have to admit that it's not been till the other aliens arrived that your man had any real competion on a regular basis.

[tbs]

Rookie Rule to be dropped (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/06/17/rookie_rule_to_be_dropped_for_2013.html).

Some interesting opinions in the comments section of that article before it inevitably turned into a a Rossi and Ducati bashing match. Particularly that it actually costs the satellite teams a lot of money to have these hard charging rookies crashing their bikes a lot before they learn to keep it rubber side down. And also that it causes massive sponsor disruption and job losses to crew who have to make way for an upcoming rider's crew for a year until they snap up a factory ride. So it seems better for all concerned to do away with the rookie rule.

Having said that, I'd rather see Marquez earn his factory seat on a Satellite bike and I reckon Bautista would make a good fist of Stoner's factory seat based on his consistency this year. It must be killing Elias to see Bautista putting his last year's back-marking seat on pole. I really would have liked to see him make the podium this race.

[Crasherfromwayback]

and I reckon Bautista would make a good fist of Stoner's factory seat based on his consistency this year. It must be killing Elias to see Bautista putting his last year's back-marking seat on pole. I really would have liked to see him make the podium this race.

Isn't Bautista's bike a factory effort like Simo's was last year?

[Scouse]

Hmm Guess I have to admit that Rossi isn't going to win another title. Lorenzo looks like the new GP king but I would not put it past Cruchlow to give it a good go next year if he is on a factory bike.

[DidJit]

Isn't Bautista's bike a factory effort like Simo's was last year?

Don't think so — Bautista is on a "proper" satellite bike sprung on Showa. The Repsols are the only factory HRC bikes this year I think.


Hmm Guess I have to admit that Rossi isn't going to win another title. Lorenzo looks like the new GP king but I would not put it past Cruchlow to give it a good go next year if he is on a factory bike.

Cal's already giving it a good go! The racing between him and Dovi this year is fantastic! This year could be dubbed “The Rise of the Satellite” the way those satellite teams are putting their bikes so much closer to the front (than last year, for example).

[Crasherfromwayback]

Don't think so — Bautista is on a "proper" satellite bike sprung on Showa. The Repsols are the only factory HRC bikes this year I think.



Cal's already giving it a good go! The racing between him and Dovi this year is fantastic! This year could be dubbed “The Rise of the Satellite” the way those satellite teams are putting their bikes so much closer to the front (than last year, for example).

I see. Thought it was a factory bike just running the diff suspenders.

Yeah I'm really impressed by both the sat Yamahas. Makes Spies look worse though. Next year could be very interesting.

[DidJit]

This year being the first year back to 1000cc capacity, I think the differences between ‘factory’ and ‘satellite’ spec are relatively small (until upgrades start rolling in later on in the season). The comments I've read so far mentioned the electronics packages on the factory efforts are just that little bit more refined. Cal Crutchlow tweeted something to that effect if I recall correctly.

[roogazza]

I see. Thought it was a factory bike just running the diff suspenders.
Yeah I'm really impressed by both the sat Yamahas. Makes Spies look worse though. Next year could be very interesting.


This year being the first year back to 1000cc capacity, I think the differences between ‘factory’ and ‘satellite’ spec are relatively small (until upgrades start rolling in later on in the season). The comments I've read so far mentioned the electronics packages on the factory efforts are just that little bit more refined. Cal Crutchlow tweeted something to that effect if I recall correctly.

Just going by results all the Yamahas look similar. But for the works jobbies, one is masterful and the other struggling.
(or as we dicussed the other day Crasher, his head is upset ?)

[tbs]

Isn't Bautista's bike a factory effort like Simo's was last year?

Ha, I had got things back to front. I thought Bradle was on the Gresini and Bautista was on the LCR. My bad. Still, I reckon he's done really well to adapt from the uncompetitive Suzuki to the the Honda and get up to pace. He seems to have got better on a race by race basis.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ha, I had got things back to front. I thought Bradle was on the Gresini and Bautista was on the LCR. My bad. Still, I reckon he's done really well to adapt from the uncompetitive Suzuki to the the Honda and get up to pace. He seems to have got better on a race by race basis.

I'd like to see him bag Stoners Honda next year. Meantime...

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/18/jorge-lorenzo-waits-pushes-wins-at-silverstone/

[Mental Trousers]

Ha, I had got things back to front. I thought Bradle was on the Gresini and Bautista was on the LCR. My bad. Still, I reckon he's done really well to adapt from the uncompetitive Suzuki to the the Honda and get up to pace. He seems to have got better on a race by race basis.

By the time the Suzuki factory quit the GSVR was every bit as competitive as the Yamaha's and Honda's. The front running guys were saying they could've put it on the podium.

Bautista is a great rider and a brave little bugger but he was having to develop it in a single bike team at the same time as trying to figure out how to ride with the best. He had a hell of a lot on his plate and did a great job, but he wasn't quite up to getting the best of the thing. As we can see this year he's taken a little while but the last couple of races he's been starting to look like he deserves that Honda.

[tbs]

By the time the Suzuki factory quit the GSVR was every bit as competitive as the Yamaha's and Honda's. The front running guys were saying they could've put it on the podium.

Bautista is a great rider and a brave little bugger but he was having to develop it in a single bike team at the same time as trying to figure out how to ride with the best. He had a hell of a lot on his plate and did a great job, but he wasn't quite up to getting the best of the thing. As we can see this year he's taken a little while but the last couple of races he's been starting to look like he deserves that Honda.

I remember John Hopkins saying how good it was and that it was capable of running up the front under the right rider, but I just thought he was trying to put the boot in and get back on a GP bike for good.

[DidJit]

This (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/06/20/honda_building_production_racer_crt_vers.html) is why the “CRT” concept was brought in!

[pritch]

This (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/06/20/honda_building_production_racer_crt_vers.html) is why the “CRT” concept was brought in!

And a year or two on a street legal version?

I note that Ben Spies has had a rant on Twitter about the Rookie Rule being dropped. His perception being that the rules are being waived by Spanish company Dorna to favour one rider because he is Spanish. Colin Edwards is also vehement in his views on the topic.

Of course down the years many competitors in various sports have benefited by being from the USA. Ask Erin Baker.

[Oscar]

And a year or two on a street legal version?

I note that Ben Spies has had a rant on Twitter about the Rookie Rule being dropped. His perception being that the rules are being waived by Spanish company Dorna to favour one rider because he is Spanish. Colin Edwards is also vehement in his views on the topic.

Of course down the years many competitors in various sports have benefited by being from the USA. Ask Erin Baker.

I think the only instance of that rule being enforced was Spies wasn't it?
When Honda wanted Simoncelli on a Honda they gave Gresini a works bike.

[Tony.OK]

Just watched the Moto 2 race and was surpised to hear that the 600's quali times at Spain are faster than the fastest ever lap at Catalunya on 500GP bikes, that record held by Rossi.
Goes to show how fast these little bikes are now going, and they're a few HP down on WSS bikes too.

[DidJit]

And a year or two on a street legal version?

Honda want in on Aprilia's ART action. ;)

[Oscar]

Just watched the Moto 2 race and was surpised to hear that the 600's quali times at Spain are faster than the fastest ever lap at Catalunya on 500GP bikes, that record held by Rossi.
Goes to show how fast these little bikes are now going, and they're a few HP down on WSS bikes too.

Anyone here need to retract their comments about slow Moto2 bikes?

[pritch]

I think the only instance of that rule being enforced was Spies wasn't it?


He was certainly the main one if not the only one, in some quarters it's referred to as the "Spies rule".

[Crasherfromwayback]

Anyone here need to retract their comments about slow Moto2 bikes?

Not I. 250's also went as fast sometimes Oscar. Hardly suprising that a bike 2 1/2 times bigger would eventually get there. But they're still not even as fast as a 600ss bikes are they?

[sil3nt]

Around silverstone Moto2 and WSS 1000 are practically even. Moto 2 being slightly quicker - less than a second a lap.
The WSS 600s are about 5 seconds off.

The difference between MotoGP and WSBK is around 2 seconds.

Data is taken from 2011 Silverstone Qualifying. Obviously conditions would be totally different and I would say the tyres would play a big part as well.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Around silverstone Moto2 and WSS 1000 are practically even. Moto 2 being slightly quicker - less than a second a lap.
The WSS 600s are about 5 seconds off.

The difference between MotoGP and WSBK is around 2 seconds.

Data is taken from 2011 Silverstone Qualifying. Obviously conditions would be totally different and I would say the tyres would play a big part as well.

That's impressive then! I must say they've caught up quickert than I thought they might. Still sound like plop though. :bleh:

[DidJit]

Assen 2010 WSS QP — Kenan Sofuoglu, 1:37.908
Assen 2010 Moto2 QP — Andrea Iannone, 1:39.092
Assen 2011 WSS QP — Luca Scassa, 1:38.008
Assen 2011 Moto2 QP — Stefan Bradl, 1:39.305
Assen 2012 WSS QP — Sam Lowes, 1:38.9
Assen 2012 Moto2 QP — ... ?

Doesn't take into account weather conditions, time of year, tyres, etc...

Ah, beaten to it by sil3nt... :)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Assen 2010 WSS QP — Kenan Sofuoglu, 1:37.908
Assen 2010 Moto2 QP — Andrea Iannone, 1:39.092
Assen 2011 WSS QP — Luca Scassa, 1:38.008
Assen 2011 Moto2 QP — Stefan Bradl, 1:39.305
Assen 2012 WSS QP — Sam Lowes, 1:38.9
Assen 2012 Moto2 QP — ... ?

Doesn't take into account weather conditions, time of year, tyres, etc...

Ah, beaten to it by sil3nt... :)

No. sil3nt seems to be saying the exact opposite?

[Mental Trousers]

No. sil3nt seems to be saying the exact opposite?

Those 2 have got me confused too.

At Silverstone the more powerful Super Sports should be ahead, but at Assen the more agile Moto2 bikes should be faster. In theory anyway.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Those 2 have got me confused too.

.

Best I do my own homework when I have the time!

[DidJit]

I just meant I got beaten in showing a comparison between the two classes. (I should explain myself more clearly, I know.) ;)
Here is a comparison of Silverstone's times.

Silverstone 2010 Moto2 QP — Claudio Corti, 2:09.624
Silverstone 2010 WSS QP — Eugene Laverty, 2:09.426
Silverstone 2011 Moto2 QP — Marc Marquez, 2:08.101
Silverstone 2011 WSS QP — David Salom, 2:08.571
Silverstone 2012 Moto2 QP — Pol Espargaro, 2:08.011
Silverstone 2012 WSS QP — ... ?

Again, weather conditions, time of year, etc etc. not taken into account.

[nudemetalz]

So, on average, what is the crank HP the WSS600's putting out?
I believe (I might be wrong) the Moto2's are 145hp.

[sil3nt]

So, on average, what is the crank HP the WSS600's putting out?
I believe (I might be wrong) the Moto2's are 145hp.From here: http://www.visordown.com/features/five-unlimited-budget-trackday-bikes/20811.html
Moto2 is 140 and WSS600 is 145.

[nudemetalz]

From here: http://www.visordown.com/features/five-unlimited-budget-trackday-bikes/20811.html
Moto2 is 140 and WSS600 is 145.

Cheers for that :)

[Tony.OK]

From here: http://www.visordown.com/features/five-unlimited-budget-trackday-bikes/20811.html
Moto2 is 140 and WSS600 is 145.

And Moto2 is 26kg lighter :shit:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Just watched the Moto 2 race and was surpised to hear that the 600's quali times at Spain are faster than the fastest ever lap at Catalunya on 500GP bikes, that record held by Rossi.
Goes to show how fast these little bikes are now going, and they're a few HP down on WSS bikes too.

Not according to the official MotoGP site they're not. 1'46.187 in qual for Moto2, 1'45.507 for Rossi in 2001 Qual. Still a good effort I must say. Mind you...in 2007 Lorenzo did a 1'45.098 on his 250.

So Oscar...I stand by my comments.

[Tony.OK]

Not according to the official MotoGP site they're not. 1'46.187 in qual for Moto2, 1'45.507 for Rossi in 2001 Qual. Still a good effort I must say. Mind you...in 2007 Lorenzo did a 1'45.098 on his 250.

So Oscar...I stand by my comments.

They said race lap times for 500's as they had Quali tyres back then did they not?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Just watched the Moto 2 race and was surpised to hear that the 600's quali times at Spain are faster than the fastest ever lap at Catalunya on 500GP bikes, .


They said race lap times for 500's as they had Quali tyres back then did they not?

No...you said the fastest ever lap by a 500.

But regardless...a 250 has still gone a fair bit quicker, and I don't know if Dunlop had Q's?

[Tony.OK]

No...you said the fastest ever lap by a 500.

But regardless...a 250 has still gone a fair bit quicker, and I don't know if Dunlop had Q's?

Oops my bad, they do say it in the clip I posted though.

Now what I'd like to see is a 500 with a full electronics package of wheelie and traction control and modern tyres have another go at that laptime :niceone:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Oops my bad, they do say it in the clip I posted though.

Now what I'd like to see is a 500 with a full electronics package of wheelie and traction control and modern tyres have another go at that laptime :niceone:

All good!

Nah...I'd rather see one with direct fuel injection and modern tyres/suspension have a go. Fuck the wheelie/traction control!

[nudemetalz]

All good!

Nah...I'd rather see one with direct fuel injection and modern tyres/suspension have a go. Fuck the wheelie/traction control!

I reckon 250-260hp would be possible,....hmmm,..no wheelie control with 130kg....:crazy:

[george formby]

I reckon 250-260hp would be possible,....hmmm,..no wheelie control with 130kg....:crazy:


Look at the Suter thread 129kg, 200hp +, V4 2t. Yours for the asking.

[nudemetalz]

Look at the Suter thread 129kg, 200hp +, V4 2t. Yours for the asking.

Oh yes, already seen that :drool:

Wonder how difficult it would be to road-legal one...

[george formby]

Oh yes, already seen that :drool:

Wonder how difficult it would be to road-legal one...

It's not on the LAMS restricted list.....:eek:

[tigertim20]

If he does win it this year it'll sum things up pretty fairly I reckon. Since 2006, two titles each to Rossi, Stoner and Lorenzo. Three legends of the sport.
a good way of looking at it. being such a decent lead so early, Id be surprised if stoner really bothered to try to win the title again, unless jorge has a DNF - no point in risking injury for such a slight chance when you're leaving anyway, right?

Good race some intense passing there for a while :niceone:

Spies seems to be getting it back at least he's in front for a few laps now? better than the first few races.

Yeh ythat was a good ride last to sixth, home crowd, he might be puting himself up for a factory ride at this rate?

From the comments after they simply cant get the Honda to like the new tyres.
Where they seem to suit Lorenzo?

last to 6th makes a hell of a case for a factory bike doesnt it? if he can repeat a similar performance he might just get it.

as for tyres, I question the riding style, stoner likes to wring it, make it slide around etc, thats got to fuck your tyres faster, lorenzo has long been hailed as one of, if not THE smoothest rider out there - he is able to conserve his tyres and make them good at the end as well as at the start.
Didnt stoner use different tyres than almost all the other front runners though? thought that was a tad odd

[McWild]

as for tyres, I question the riding style, stoner likes to wring it, make it slide around etc, thats got to fuck your tyres faster, lorenzo has long been hailed as one of, if not THE smoothest rider out there - he is able to conserve his tyres and make them good at the end as well as at the start.
Didnt stoner use different tyres than almost all the other front runners though? thought that was a tad odd

Makes you wonder what sort of tyre damage Lorenzo would achieve on the Honda huh? I wonder, if he had a season with the Honda would he still succeed with his smoothness or would he have to adapt?

[slowpoke]

a good way of looking at it. being such a decent lead so early, Id be surprised if stoner really bothered to try to win the title again, unless jorge has a DNF - no point in risking injury for such a slight chance when you're leaving anyway, right?


last to 6th makes a hell of a case for a factory bike doesnt it? if he can repeat a similar performance he might just get it.

as for tyres, I question the riding style, stoner likes to wring it, make it slide around etc, thats got to fuck your tyres faster, lorenzo has long been hailed as one of, if not THE smoothest rider out there - he is able to conserve his tyres and make them good at the end as well as at the start.
Didnt stoner use different tyres than almost all the other front runners though? thought that was a tad odd

You're kiddin' aintcha? We're only a 3rd of the way through the season so while 25 points is a nice buffer it's nothing like insurmountable. Stoner is a gritty lil' bugger who will give it 100% right up until the last race.

As for Crutchlow, he's been a revelation this year because he didn't do a helluva lot last year. Likewise, we're only a 3rd of the way through the season, so it's early days as far as I'm concerned. 6th is a good result but realistically he beat a swag of CRT bikes, some wayward Ducati's and a young rookie on a satellite Honda at what was his home track. The impressive part was doing it with an injury not the actual result. Speaking of Ducati , I'd like to see him go there after hearing him say how good he'd be on it I'd like for him to find out first hand what a heap of shit it is. (How Preziosi keeps his job is beyond me). Haha, can you tell I'm not a Crutchlow fan?! (still rather him than Smith though)

I'm a bit confused about the tyre wear thing. Back when McCoy was drawing rubber lines around every track they said the same thing: you'll chew the tyres blah blah. But then everyone found that spinning the tyre deformed it less than loading it up , and it was loading (flexing) the tyre which overheated the whole carcass rather than just the surface (spinning). Lorenzo is the guy who massively loads the tyres and keeps 'em on the limit of adhesion, whereas Stoner is more likely to spin it up. I reckon it's a massive over simplification to simply point the finger at riding style with soooo many variables with TC strategies, suspension setup, power delivery, weight distribution etc.

[carbonhed]

Speaking of Ducati , I'd like to see him go there after hearing him say how good he'd be on it I'd like for him to find out first hand what a heap of shit it is. (How Preziosi keeps his job is beyond me). Haha, can you tell I'm not a Crutchlow fan?! (still rather him than Smith though)



He didn't say anything even remotely like "how good he'd be on it". What he did say is that there were similarities between his and Stoners style that might mean he could ride it successfully.

[tigertim20]

Makes you wonder what sort of tyre damage Lorenzo would achieve on the Honda huh? I wonder, if he had a season with the Honda would he still succeed with his smoothness or would he have to adapt?
I guess we will have to wait at least 2 and a half more years for an opportunity to find out!

You're kiddin' aintcha? We're only a 3rd of the way through the season so while 25 points is a nice buffer it's nothing like insurmountable. Stoner is a gritty lil' bugger who will give it 100% right up until the last race.



I'm a bit confused about the tyre wear thing. Back when McCoy was drawing rubber lines around every track they said the same thing: you'll chew the tyres blah blah. But then everyone found that spinning the tyre deformed it less than loading it up , and it was loading (flexing) the tyre which overheated the whole carcass rather than just the surface (spinning). Lorenzo is the guy who massively loads the tyres and keeps 'em on the limit of adhesion, whereas Stoner is more likely to spin it up. I reckon it's a massive over simplification to simply point the finger at riding style with soooo many variables with TC strategies, suspension setup, power delivery, weight distribution etc.

for the first point, nah, Im not kidding - Lorenzo could have a DNF and in the scheme of things it wouldnt matter - it is quite possible for him to DNF at the next round and still lead the championship. Stoner has made the decision to leave it all behind him, and be with his family or whatever, the certainty of that decision must play some part in his psyche for the rest of the season - I dont think he will push like last year unless Jorge fucks up badly enough that it isnt a great risk - if it turns out differently, then I will eat my words - but with Stoner having made that decision, I think it wioll affect his mind, and his riding much differently than if he was staying for another two years - Lorenzo on the other hand just said Im staying HERE for 2 more years minimum - he is eager to push, and show he is the right choice for yamaha, stoner no longer has to care.

as for tyre wear, Id say that a) tyres have come a long way since then, and B) the tyre life is probably a combination of how the team sets up the TC to work WITH the riders style - but again, stoner chose dfferent tyres at last weekends race than all the other frontrunners, so that has to confuse things a little

[rachprice]

Hmmm it's not off the cards the Lorenzo dnf's he had a pretty big moment last weekend

Though I'm sure he wont

[tigertim20]

Hmmm it's not off the cards the Lorenzo dnf's he had a pretty big moment last weekend

Though I'm sure he wont

hes certainly getting on it at the momment, the cunt is possessed! So is spies, but at least Jorge has stayed on thus far:lol:

I sort of expect Jorge to just slowly walk that lead out. a DNF or mechanical failure in a couple races time would be good for the excitement factor though, make the last couple races more exciting, but its unlikely. He better stay on, dunno how many more fingers he can lose and still work the clutch!

[slowpoke]

He didn't say anything even remotely like "how good he'd be on it". What he did say is that there were similarities between his and Stoners style that might mean he could ride it successfully.

Said like a true politician, haha. Remove the diplomatic spin and you're left with what I admittedly read between the lines. I haven't got much time for him after reading a few interviews and comments. How coming 5th in WSB (on the bike Spies blitz'd 'em with) and 12th in MotoGP makes him similar to Stoner is a bit of a mystery, as is dreaming he can do what far higher credentialled riders can't. But it would be interesting watching him try.

[Brian d marge]

If anyone who knows what they are talking about , please ,,this is your chance to chime in ,,,before me brain explodes ,,

chatter ,,,Honga ..watch this space ( this be an interesting area ,,one of which ducati cant win , without LOADS OF investment
crutchlow ....
putting it out into the mainstream press that I can do the job ,,ie money

the ducati is dog fundamentally ..( I have emailed everyone I know , spalders , honda showa ,,,nitron , these people are v good at what they do ,,,NOT ONE will say directly what is wrong with the duke ,,its like we all know but wont say because of the consequences ,,in fact I will email to them all again ,,,simple question, same corner , different riders same crash , what the problem with the duke ,,,,now as a engineer that gives me 2 data points,,,,,,,so Im guessing people know but wont spill

Lorenso for the title

Stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

Lorenso for the title

Stephen

Who's he? I reckon Stoner may well still catch him if they can stop the Honda chewing up tyres.

[Oscar]

Who's he? I reckon Stoner may well still catch him if they can stop the Honda chewing up tyres.

Stoner still has plenty of time and points in hand.
There are already rumblings about the tyres, and I wouldn't be surprised if the subject is on the table.
I'll see what The Director has to say.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stoner still has plenty of time and points in hand.
There are already rumblings about the tyres, and I wouldn't be surprised if the subject is on the table.
I'll see what The Director has to say.

Yeah we all know it's only one biff away, and Stoner hasn't crashed out of a race since being on the Honda, Lorenzo has. He fucking nearly biffed it away last week whilst leading too. Still, as I've said...if he doesn't start winning soon it'll be too late. I think Lorenzo gets better each and every year!

[Tony.OK]

Yeah we all know it's only one biff away, and Stoner hasn't crashed out of a race since being on the Honda, Lorenzo has. He fucking nearly biffed it away last week whilst leading too. Still, as I've said...if he doesn't start winning soon it'll be too late. I think Lorenzo gets better each and every year!

Surely its not Lorenzo..............it must be the bike!!!:nya:

[Oscar]

Yeah we all know it's only one biff away, and Stoner hasn't crashed out of a race since being on the Honda, Lorenzo has. He fucking nearly biffed it away last week whilst leading too. Still, as I've said...if he doesn't start winning soon it'll be too late. I think Lorenzo gets better each and every year!

Gorgeous George is scary consistent (and has the most perfect sculptured eyebrows I've ever seen on a bloke - have you noticed?).
He peels off lap after lap and never seems to fuck his tyres.
Without Vale, he would have had multiple titles by now.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Surely its not Lorenzo..............it must be the bike!!!:nya:

Yeah I love that one! Through out the history of the sport the winner has more often than not had the best bike. But you've still gotta ride it better than the other guys eh!


Gorgeous George is scary consistent (and has the most perfect sculptured eyebrows I've ever seen on a bloke - have you noticed?).
He peels off lap after lap and never seems to fuck his tyres.
Without Vale, he would have had multiple titles by now.

I said before that if Lorenzo wins the title, it'd sum things up well I reckon. Since '06', two for Rossi (one of the greatest of the sport) at the end of his time, two each for the greatest newcomers for quite some time at the beginning of their time. Pity one of them is leaving...but someone will come along equally as good if not better. It's how it goes. No...I haven't noticed his eyebrows...but now I'll have trouble looking at anything else. Thanks for that!

[pritch]

Gorgeous George <snip>( has the most perfect sculptured eyebrows I've ever seen on a bloke - have you noticed?).


Maybe he wasn't joking when he said Pedrosa and he were getting married? :whistle:

[denill]

As for Crutchlow, he's been a revelation this year because he didn't do a helluva lot last year. Likewise, we're only a 3rd of the way through the season, so it's early days as far as I'm concerned. 6th is a good result but realistically he beat a swag of CRT bikes, some wayward Ducati's and a young rookie on a satellite Honda at what was his home track. The impressive part was doing it with an injury not the actual result. Speaking of Ducati , I'd like to see him go there after hearing him say how good he'd be on it I'd like for him to find out first hand what a heap of shit it is. (How Preziosi keeps his job is beyond me). Haha, can you tell I'm not a Crutchlow fan?! (still rather him than Smith though).

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120622a.htm

[denill]

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120622d.htm>Be interesting to see the times of both Troy and Carlos:</A> :rolleyes:

[tigertim20]

Said like a true politician, haha. Remove the diplomatic spin and you're left with what I admittedly read between the lines. I haven't got much time for him after reading a few interviews and comments. How coming 5th in WSB (on the bike Spies blitz'd 'em with) and 12th in MotoGP makes him similar to Stoner is a bit of a mystery, as is dreaming he can do what far higher credentialled riders can't. But it would be interesting watching him try.

good points, I think its his way of putting his hand up, and saying 'if nobody else wants it, I will, I just want a factory ride and any factory will do'

[carbonhed]

Said like a true politician, haha. Remove the diplomatic spin and you're left with what I admittedly read between the lines. I haven't got much time for him after reading a few interviews and comments. How coming 5th in WSB (on the bike Spies blitz'd 'em with) and 12th in MotoGP makes him similar to Stoner is a bit of a mystery, as is dreaming he can do what far higher credentialled riders can't. But it would be interesting watching him try.

Crutchlow's certainly a gobby little bugger with a decidedly odd sense of humour but after saying there were similarities between his and Stoners riding style he did qualify it by saying that Casey, unfortunately, was a second a lap quicker when "on it". He's also described Stoner as "by far the fastest man on the planet" so he's generally pretty respectful towards the other riders in the paddock. He is of course raping Ben Spies mercilessly this year and on a satellite bike to boot.

Actually it would be fascinating to find out why Spies has changed his style from last season where he started generally quite slowly, preserved his tyres, and then mugged dovi and simo for a few cheap places late on... to this season where in the last couple of races he's charged out of the blocks and crashed/rooted his tyres in short order. Desperation?

[pritch]

Crutchlow is outspoken and would probably benefit from media training. Then again, as here, he gets flak for things he never actually said, so the media training might not help much.

He and Stoner seem to get on well, when he felt disadvantaged at having to use a smaller brake pad than the factory bikes, Stoner told him not to worry too much as he (Stoner) had tried them, didn't like them, so wasn't using them.

Crutchlow can ride and he 's got guts so he's entitled to have his say. He is a character and the sport needs some characters. Ducati must like him, they are talking to him about a contract.

[BMWST?]

Crutchlow's certainly a gobby little bugger with a decidedly odd sense of humour but after saying there were similarities between his and Stoners riding style he did qualify it by saying that Casey, unfortunately, was a second a lap quicker when "on it". He's also described Stoner as "by far the fastest man on the planet" so he's generally pretty respectful towards the other riders in the paddock. He is of course raping Ben Spies mercilessly this year and on a satellite bike to boot.

Actually it would be fascinating to find out why Spies has changed his style from last season where he started generally quite slowly, preserved his tyres, and then mugged dovi and simo for a few cheap places late on... to this season where in the last couple of races he's charged out of the blocks and crashed/rooted his tyres in short order. Desperation?

its all very nice picking of a couple of other riders towards the end of the race but if you want to win you gotta be up with the leaders,or close to tthem.....So you gotta start fast

[carbonhed]

its all very nice picking of a couple of other riders towards the end of the race but if you want to win you gotta be up with the leaders,or close to tthem.....So you gotta start fast

On the first lap at Silverstone he took nearly 2 secs out of Lorenzo who was lying fifth... Pedro was seventh. Stoner said this :-

“Ben worried me from lap one,” said Stoner. “When I saw how hard he was getting on the throttle and how much lean angle he had but still going round the corners and not going wide, I didn't have that confidence and I couldn't lay the bike down and get on the gas like he could.”

Then he fucked his tyres and was slower than Lorenzo on every subsequent lap.

[BMWST?]

On the first lap at Silverstone he took nearly 2 secs out of Lorenzo who was lying fifth... Pedro was seventh. Stoner said this :-

“Ben worried me from lap one,” said Stoner. “When I saw how hard he was getting on the throttle and how much lean angle he had but still going round the corners and not going wide, I didn't have that confidence and I couldn't lay the bike down and get on the gas like he could.”

Then he fucked his tyres and was slower than Lorenzo on every subsequent lap.

so he is obviously tying to start with and stay with the leaders.I have heard that if you dont take care you can destroy these tyres in very short order

[carbonhed]

I have heard that if you dont take care you can destroy these tyres in very short order

Within a lap by the look of it :laugh:

After the race he said :-

"The potential of the bike was great today and we could have been fighting for the podium or the win with Jorge."

Rrrrriiiight.

[Mental Trousers]

Ducati must like him, they are talking to him about a contract.

They can't seem to fix the bike so they're trying to find someone who can ride what they've got.

Would be interesting to see how the bike handled if someone stuck 5kg of Lead on the top of the front cylinder. Easy test and it could have quite dramatic results.

[slowpoke]

good points, I think its his way of putting his hand up, and saying 'if nobody else wants it, I will, I just want a factory ride and any factory will do'


Crutchlow's certainly a gobby little bugger with a decidedly odd sense of humour but after saying there were similarities between his and Stoners riding style he did qualify it by saying that Casey, unfortunately, was a second a lap quicker when "on it". He's also described Stoner as "by far the fastest man on the planet" so he's generally pretty respectful towards the other riders in the paddock. He is of course raping Ben Spies mercilessly this year and on a satellite bike to boot.

Actually it would be fascinating to find out why Spies has changed his style from last season where he started generally quite slowly, preserved his tyres, and then mugged dovi and simo for a few cheap places late on... to this season where in the last couple of races he's charged out of the blocks and crashed/rooted his tyres in short order. Desperation?

Yeah, I know I'm being unduly harsh on Crutchlow, credit where credit is due he's doing a great job this season. If nothing else he's generated more interest and lord knows we need some personalities out there. Realistically how can I dislike a guy I don't even know? Lets just say the the impression he's given has me voicing support in alternative directions....how's that for politi-speak? Haha.

Spies? He's a cool bugger, anybody who can win a "you blinked first" competition with Mat Mladin has got some serious stones, but I can't help feeling he is feeling the pressure. He's been unlucky as much as he's done anything wrong so I reckon he'll soon pull clear of the Tech 3 boys.

[rachprice]

Gorgeous George is scary consistent (and has the most perfect sculptured eyebrows I've ever seen on a bloke - have you noticed?).
He peels off lap after lap and never seems to fuck his tyres.
Without Vale, he would have had multiple titles by now.

I beg to differ

Hector Faubel

[pritch]

Just heard an interview with Herve Poncharal, Tech3 boss. When asked if the current competitiveness of the Tech3 was due to the fact that it is the start of a new class so the satellite bikes and the factory bikes are closer, he replied to the effect that Yamaha always give good support. He then said that the only difference this year is the calibre of the two riders in the team.

He is a happy man, but a worried man during the races...

[Crasherfromwayback]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120622uh.htm

[slowpoke]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120622uh.htm

Trouble is I'm yet to hear a viable alternative from MSMA, riders or commentators. The problem isn't with CRT, the problem is that there are 2 different spec bikes on the grid ( 3 if you split it into Factory, Satellite and CRT). Honda's rumored "production racer" is no different: as long as it's a lower spec than the factory bikes it's not gonna help the situation.

There needs to be one spec across the board. The tricky part is defining the spec to give a decent number of bikes on the grid and a decent level of bike performance/technology.

[tigertim20]

Trouble is I'm yet to hear a viable alternative from MSMA, riders or commentators. The problem isn't with CRT, the problem is that there are 2 different spec bikes on the grid ( 3 if you split it into Factory, Satellite and CRT). Honda's rumored "production racer" is no different: as long as it's a lower spec than the factory bikes it's not gonna help the situation.

There needs to be one spec across the board. The tricky part is defining the spec to give a decent number of bikes on the grid and a decent level of bike performance/technology.

amen to that

[Brian d marge]

There needs to be one spec across the board. The tricky part is defining the spec to give a decent number of bikes on the grid and a decent level of bike performance/technology.

and they will ..Stoned while being a good rider ,,is not looking forward , I think they have got it right ,,,

buckets unlimited NZ awesomenes

Moto3 ( engine )

moto2 (Chassis)

crt ( rookie motogp)

satilite ( in with a chance of a factory ride )

motogp ( god )

Enfield rider ( Legend )

as long as crt are not too slow to become a danger all is well

Stephen

[roogazza]

I beg to differ

Hector Faubel

Rach do you give Pete a little tidy up ?
After all he is getting to that age where the stuff starts to grow in places you don't want it. (eyebrows, ears, nose etc etc.) LOL:crazy::crazy:

[Oscar]

Trouble is I'm yet to hear a viable alternative from MSMA, riders or commentators. The problem isn't with CRT, the problem is that there are 2 different spec bikes on the grid ( 3 if you split it into Factory, Satellite and CRT). Honda's rumored "production racer" is no different: as long as it's a lower spec than the factory bikes it's not gonna help the situation.

There needs to be one spec across the board. The tricky part is defining the spec to give a decent number of bikes on the grid and a decent level of bike performance/technology.

[paddock rumour]Apparently the Honda will be the business (as opposed to a street bike version of the racer) and BMW and Suzuki are looking at offering replica race bikes for sale, and the thinking is that if Honda do it, Yamaha will follow along.[/paddock rumour]

[Mental Trousers]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120622uh.htm

Written by someone who won't even put a pseudonym to it.


Trouble is I'm yet to hear a viable alternative from MSMA, riders or commentators.

Exactly


The problem isn't with CRT, the problem is that there are 2 different spec bikes on the grid ( 3 if you split it into Factory, Satellite and CRT). Honda's rumored "production racer" is no different: as long as it's a lower spec than the factory bikes it's not gonna help the situation.

There needs to be one spec across the board. The tricky part is defining the spec to give a decent number of bikes on the grid and a decent level of bike performance/technology.

With one spec money dominates.

At the moment what we're seeing is the have's vs have not's. The factories have years of investing at the top level of the sport and simply have the best of everything (even Ducati have their pig in front of the CRT bikes due to their prior investment and knowledge it's only in the last 2 percent of performance they're failing miserably). The CRT teams have had about 12 months to try and cobble together something that has to go up against bikes that have 10+ years of experience and millions of dollars invested in them.


limited budgets vs millions already invested
no prior experience vs many years
a year to put a team together vs well sorted, stable, long term teams
hopefuls vs worlds best riders



The CRT teams were always going to be coming from a long way behind

[Mental Trousers]

[paddock rumour]Apparently the Honda will be the business (as opposed to a street bike version of the racer) and BMW and Suzuki are looking at offering replica race bikes for sale, and the thinking is that if Honda do it, Yamaha will follow along.[/paddock rumour]

If Suzuki were onto it they'd start offering their current prototype that's been turning up in spy photos as a CRT production racer then work with the teams to get their feedback and improve it. Much cheaper way to go about it and you get much more feedback and testing.

[Crasherfromwayback]

[
The CRT teams were always going to be coming from a long way behind

A lot of people here I think truely believed that the CRT bikes would be dicing with the factory bikes before too long.

While I agree something had to happen...I think they've gone down the wrong path. Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimmick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

[Oscar]

A lot of people here I think truely believed that the CRT bikes would be dicing with the factory bikes before too long.

While I agree something had to happen...I think they've gone down the wrong path. Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimmick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

Yeah, that comment from Edwards about his bike being too rigid seems to indicate that maybe the MotoGP tyres might be the problem. Or perhaps, as you say, starting with a production MotGP bike will be easier than starting with SBK machinery.

[DidJit]

... Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

Maybe Dorna had to push the ‘CRT’ concept to get the factories to finally <del>cut the price of a satellite</del> bring out production racers again...

[Oscar]

Maybe Dorna had to push the ‘CRT’ concept to get the factories to finally <del>cut the price of a satellite</del> bring out production racers again...

I'm pretty sure that was the idea all along...

[tigertim20]

A lot of people here I think truely believed that the CRT bikes would be dicing with the factory bikes before too long.

While I agree something had to happen...I think they've gone down the wrong path. Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimmick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

define 'before too long'. as mentioned, they are 10 years behind in development, hundreds of millions behind in R and D money spent, and thats just the actual bikes, the riders are (with the odd exception) many years behind in experience in this level/set of rules etc the teams are tens of years behind in terms of building team cohesion and strategy etc etc.

Its not like they were EVER going to win a race in season 1 of CRT - I think they will get to the point where they are competitive, but it will take a couple years - in the meantime, while they catch up, Id rather see a large grid than (if you ignore the slightly different spec between factory and sattelite) basically 3 bikes on the grid (Honda Yamaha, Ducati.)

[Tony.OK]

define 'before too long'. as mentioned, they are 10 years behind in development, hundreds of millions behind in R and D money spent, and thats just the actual bikes, the riders are (with the odd exception) many years behind in experience in this level/set of rules etc the teams are tens of years behind in terms of building team cohesion and strategy etc etc.

Its not like they were EVER going to win a race in season 1 of CRT - I think they will get to the point where they are competitive, but it will take a couple years - in the meantime, while they catch up, Id rather see a large grid than (if you ignore the slightly different spec between factory and sattelite) basically 3 bikes on the grid (Honda Yamaha, Ducati.)

40ish HP behind and they're meant to be competitive? Never happen on a dry track!
I think they are more of a "hello.....this is where MotoGP is heading!" stop gap from the higher ups.

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

Shit why not just merge WSBK if they want big grids haha.

[Crasherfromwayback]

, Id rather see a large grid than (if you ignore the slightly different spec between factory and sattelite) basically 3 bikes on the grid (Honda Yamaha, Ducati.)

Can you honestly say CRT's have made your viewing of Moto GP more enjoyable this year than last? I sure as fuck can't.



I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

.

Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.

[tigertim20]

40ish HP behind and they're meant to be competitive? Never happen on a dry track!
I think they are more of a "hello.....this is where MotoGP is heading!" stop gap from the higher ups.

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

Shit why not just merge WSBK if they want big grids haha.
it takes time. with a bit of time, Im sure the HP gap will begin to be bridged - like I said look at the head start the factory honda and yamaha and Ducati have - it will take time.

people become impatient, and short sighted. Yes its annoying to be seeing heaps of slower racing - but im sure there are plenty out there who are interested in the development of CRT and do want to see how theyre going.
No, it isnt making it a whole lot more enjoyable, but you need to think long term - are you saying you cant see them being competitive when a control ecu is brought in?

Can you honestly say CRT's have made your viewing of Moto GP more enjoyable this year than last? I sure as fuck can't.



Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.
not yet they havent, but I think in time it may still happen. I mean fuck, theres only been what, 5 races? you expect them to catch up from a deficit of tens of years of experience and R and D, and ten of millions of dollars behind in 5 or 6 races? of course not.

[merv]

CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development? Now production racers by Honda and co, that sounds like a better idea.

[Tony.OK]

CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development? Now production racers by Honda and co, that sounds like a better idea.

Yup, and if they ever DID get the stock engines HP close to the GP bikes I'd bet that the cost to do so would negate the whole "low cost" CRT bikes existence anyway.

[pritch]

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.


I don't know about a contract, but the TV producers have definitely been told to give the back markers more coverage.
As always, it's about money. Sponsorship is increasingly hard to come by and sponsors want to be seen so...

I have reservations about rider safety when taking races to new places like Russia, India, Indonesia, or God knows where else, but with southern Europe going down the gurgler the grass must be looking greener in all sorts of strange places.

So, as well as CRT there may be other things not meeting with our unanimous approval, but times are tough and it's becoming about survival.

I can't remember who it was I was listening to yesterday, either the LCR or the Grisini chief, but he was looking on the bright side. He pointed out that the gap between first and last was smaller in Moto GP than in either WSBK or F1. My first thought was, how many on the grid of each? It was an interesting comment though.

[Oscar]

CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development? Now production racers by Honda and co, that sounds like a better idea.

CRT don't have to be production based.
The rules only say that they are limited to 4 cylinders and an 81mm bore size.

However it is hard to make a prototype engine and keep it under E20,000.

[Oscar]

Can you honestly say CRT's have made your viewing of Moto GP more enjoyable this year than last? I sure as fuck can't.



Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.


I bet there were a whole lotta guys in the 80's and 90's on production 500s that you didn't see on TV or give a shit about either.
I tried to look up the name of a Dutch 500 rider that we shared a pit with at Phillip Island in 1990 - Kees Doorakkers or summat.
He had an old proddy Honda and his claim to fame was knocking off Gardner in practice.
I can't find squat about him, but I did find (to my surprise) that there were only 12 finishers in that race - a race that was picked as one of the best in 50 years by Cycle World.

[merv]

I bet there were a whole lotta guys in the 80's and 90's on production 500s that you didn't see on TV or give a shit about either.
I tried to look up the name of a Dutch 500 rider that we shared a pit with at Phillip Island in 1990 - Kees Doorakkers or summat.
He had an old proddy Honda and his claim to fame was knocking off Gardner in practice.
I can't find squat about him, but I did find (to my surprise) that there were only 12 finishers in that race - a race that was picked as one of the best in 50 years by Cycle World.

There is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cees_Doorakkers and he was the 12th finisher that day in 1990.

and his zero record http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Cees+Doorakkers

and all these images http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Cees+Doorakkers&hl=en&rlz=1C1GGGE_enNZ391&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JDLoT6-2N8mfiQfWlfFY&ved=0CF0QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=485

just to show you a few :cool:

[merv]

Interesting, while looking for Oscar's boy Cees Doorakkers I found this video from the 1988 Spa GP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEsGk9CejNI&feature=player_embedded

It was in the rain, Gardner wins, but see the speed the leaders lap the field at. Those lapped were certainly like the CRT riders of the day.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I bet there were a whole lotta guys in the 80's and 90's on production 500s that you didn't see on TV or give a shit about either.

, but I did find (to my surprise) that there were only 12 finishers in that race - a race that was picked as one of the best in 50 years by Cycle World.

That's always been my point Oscar. I didn't give a sit about them, just like I don't the CRT bikes. Except at least when the privateer 500's got wasted and finished 13th the didn't share victory lane with the winners!

And again...exactly. One of the best races ever? Wityh only 12 finishers? Awesome. Some of the best Moto GP races I've seen were likewise. Exactly my point again. We don't need the CRT bikes to make up the numbers to have great races.

[slowpoke]

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.



Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.

As much as TV is the big ticket item you also have to consider filling a race track and making the whole trackside experience worthwhile too (spectators/sponsors/merchandise etc). Imagine a grid of 10-12 protypes on a decent length track: it'd be cool as fuck for about 20 sec's out of 90sec/lap, but what do you do the rest of the time?

I just read an interview in Performance Bikes (Pommy) mag with Paul Bird (running James Ellison). They are treating this year very much as just a toe in the water, well aware that the gap is too huge to bridge. The costs are huge in starting up ( it was either 40000 pounds or dollars for 3 sets of front brake rotors) so they are basically accumulating bikes, parts and experience ready to push on next year when they own the bikes. He was very pragmatic in what he was going to accomplish with $2m in comparison to a factory spending $40m.


CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development?

Thats what I intitially thought, but I drastically underestimated the lengths that WSB go to:
"Max Biaggi used 28 engines during the 2011 WSBK season, more than two per race weekend. Randy de Puniet has 12 engines to last for 18 race weekends, meaning his engines need to last about three times as long as Biaggi's WSBK-spec RSV4 engines."
(info from www.motomatters.com)
Hence the CRT bikes are actually making less than the WSB bikes.

[slowpoke]

And again...exactly. One of the best races ever? Wityh only 12 finishers? Awesome. Some of the best Moto GP races I've seen were likewise. Exactly my point again. We don't need the CRT bikes to make up the numbers to have great races.

When was the last time you saw a last lap pass for the win in a dry MotoGP race? How often have we seen more than 2 bikes battling for the win (I'm talking multiple passes not just following closely) as there was in that race? It just isn't happening.

Edit: back in the day the rider was a much bigger performance component and could make up for deficiencies in the machine. Times have changed and Mr Honda has succeeded with his dream of making machine performance more dominant thanks to all the electronic aids. Until the human element is given more importance we are well and truly screwed. Lose the farkin' electronics!

[eelracing]

That's always been my point Oscar. I didn't give a sit about them, just like I don't the CRT bikes. Except at least when the privateer 500's got wasted and finished 13th the didn't share victory lane with the winners!

And again...exactly. One of the best races ever? Wityh only 12 finishers? Awesome. Some of the best Moto GP races I've seen were likewise. Exactly my point again. We don't need the CRT bikes to make up the numbers to have great races.

Nail on head Crasher...this is one big reason why Stoner is retiring.It is no longer about racing and more about being seen.When Dorna started shoving moto2 & 3 teams out of the paddock to make room to entertain corporate bankers in sponsor restaurants and marqueez the sport is on the slippery slope to Formula 1 style cock in hand excess.

You do not need full grids,what you do need is simplified rules and a fair playing field open to anyone with the passion to give it a go...having to pay to get a bike on the grid of a championship was just the beginning of a self centered greed ethos that has pervaded this sport ever since Dorna took over the reigns.

Get these cunts out of there...give the FIM back the control...stop the factories setting the current regulations(otherwise fuck-off) and get back to what the original 500cc championship was about.

If it does'nt sell TV packages then I and millions of other GP fans would'nt lose any bloody sleep over it.

[codgyoleracer]

As long as you look at this issue from the promotors / series owners side - the decisions make sense. They are in it to make money.

Us old school style "motorcyclists" are probably their worst nightmare..................

IMO, The BSB series is probably "spectator wise" one of the best series on the planet to actually watch, The ASBK is also bloody close racing with multiple challengers for the championship and multiple winners across the series.

We all know that in GP the best bike ends up with the best rider and usually with the best funded and factory backed team, - thats all good and well in a field of 30-40 bikes , where there is so much action going on and an increased level of 'unknown variables" that naturally comes into effect with larger race fields. But when there are such few machines at a factory level - well the outcome is pretty obvious.

So how do you give the underdog a chance & in doing that hopefully see the fields increase in size ?

Dump the electronics
Dump qualifying tyres
Run an open tyre rule (one that allows all teams access to all brands and the various compounds) I:E no 'special tyres for selected teams"
Remove fuel tank capacity limits
Run two races per weekend
Run a 25.23.20.18.......... points table.


2 cents
GW

[Crasherfromwayback]

When was the last time you saw a last lap pass for the win in a dry MotoGP race? How often have we seen more than 2 bikes battling for the win (I'm talking multiple passes not just following closely) as there was in that race? It just isn't happening.

!

I can think of quite a few races where awesome passes have been done on the last lap. Not always for first, but awesome none the less. German GP couple of years ago, Lorenzo on Stoner. Rossi on Lorenzo in Spain. Rossi and Stoners dice at Laguna, Stoners move on everyone else at Laguna last year. Rossi and Lorenzo in Japan in 2010 etc etc etc. There's been some fucking awesome racing even in the so called 'boring' 800cc era, it's just that people always seem to have the ir rose tinted specs on regarding racing of old. I seem to recall Doohan fucking off into the distance for years on end. Even this season Lorenzo and Stoner have had a few good races. I think it'll get better yet too. But I don't believe we need the 8 hangers on to improve it.

[pritch]

But I don't believe we need the 8 hangers on to improve it.

When I first got interested in GPs there were just two MV factory bikes in the premier class, the rest were privateers who were all fighting over third at best.

CRT may not look too flash at the moment and one hopes that things look up, but the spectacle has improved. In recent years there have been times when everyone who finished got a championship point. It was getting a bit desperate there for a while once there was an injury or two.

The Honda production racer might change things, as might equivalent bikes from other manufacturers.

We can only hope.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The Honda production racer might change things, as might equivalent bikes from other manufacturers.

We can only hope.

I'm with you on that!

[slowpoke]

As long as you look at this issue from the promotors / series owners side - the decisions make sense. They are in it to make money.

Us old school style "motorcyclists" are probably their worst nightmare..................

IMO, The BSB series is probably "spectator wise" one of the best series on the planet to actually watch, The ASBK is also bloody close racing with multiple challengers for the championship and multiple winners across the series.

We all know that in GP the best bike ends up with the best rider and usually with the best funded and factory backed team, - thats all good and well in a field of 30-40 bikes , where there is so much action going on and an increased level of 'unknown variables" that naturally comes into effect with larger race fields. But when there are such few machines at a factory level - well the outcome is pretty obvious.

So how do you give the underdog a chance & in doing that hopefully see the fields increase in size ?

Dump the electronics
Dump qualifying tyres
Run an open tyre rule (one that allows all teams access to all brands and the various compounds) I:E no 'special tyres for selected teams"
Remove fuel tank capacity limits
Run two races per weekend
Run a 25.23.20.18.......... points table.


2 cents
GW

GW for Dorna el Presidente!


I can think of quite a few races where awesome passes have been done on the last lap. Not always for first, but awesome none the less. German GP couple of years ago, Lorenzo on Stoner. Rossi on Lorenzo in Spain. Rossi and Stoners dice at Laguna, Stoners move on everyone else at Laguna last year. Rossi and Lorenzo in Japan in 2010 etc etc etc. There's been some fucking awesome racing even in the so called 'boring' 800cc era, it's just that people always seem to have the ir rose tinted specs on regarding racing of old. I seem to recall Doohan fucking off into the distance for years on end. Even this season Lorenzo and Stoner have had a few good races. I think it'll get better yet too. But I don't believe we need the 8 hangers on to improve it.

Yeah, totally agree there have been some great moves and some good racing....but the trend seems to be towards less of it, especially with regard to multiple bikes battling for the lead late in a race.

As for the 8 hangers on, I don't see a lot of difference to the privateers of old, we just don't have the depth of field to blur the gap....and electronics just magnify any difference where a rider used to able to make up for machine limitations if they were good enough.

I realise it's all a bit huckery at the moment but the current arrangement is just a transitional period, it's just dragging (successfully) more players into the game. We're yet to see anything like the end result so I'm reserving judgement until things "normalise". We're a wee way off that point.

[DidJit]

Something (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/06/26/the_battle_for_motogp_s_future_new_rules.html) for the purists to get their teeth into... ;)

[pritch]

I sometimes wish I had a babelfish.

Virtually every possible variation on Rossi's next move has already been predicted, but the other day I came across a Spanish article that stated that next year's Repsol team was going to be Rossi and Marquez. Unfortunately I couldn't decipher the processs by which the journo had arrived at that conclusion.

The Spanish press can be a bit creative but they got Stoner's retirement right.

[slowpoke]

Something (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/06/26/the_battle_for_motogp_s_future_new_rules.html) for the purists to get their teeth into... ;)

Thanks, interesting article and the comments are almost as interesting. One of the best was pointing out that for all the talking about the electronics flowing onto street bikes Honda don't even run TC on their flagship sportsbike. Yet they run ABS which is banned in MotoGP. Obvious, but I'd never twigged to it. A spec ECU is so the way to go.

[eelracing]

Thanks, interesting article and the comments are almost as interesting. One of the best was pointing out that for all the talking about the electronics flowing onto street bikes Honda don't even run TC on their flagship sportsbike. Yet they run ABS which is banned in MotoGP. Obvious, but I'd never twigged to it. A spec ECU is so the way to go.

The majority of those comments make more sense than Emmett, he only cares about his comfy hotel room.

It's already a done deal...you are just being softsoaped into thinking there's no alternative.

[Maido]

Thanks, interesting article and the comments are almost as interesting. One of the best was pointing out that for all the talking about the electronics flowing onto street bikes Honda don't even run TC on their flagship sportsbike. Yet they run ABS which is banned in MotoGP. Obvious, but I'd never twigged to it. A spec ECU is so the way to go.

Its not just the TC that count as electrics. Its the actual format of the ECU themselves that runs into the production bikes ie the software inside is usually developed on track then a softer form is passed to the proddy bikes. Lessons learned from the way they fuel and spark race bikes are definitely passed on to road bikes. I imagine that as MotoGP have to run small fuel loads they have very precise control over fueling controls surely this has benefits on the road?
If there was a spec ecu with racing back in the early 2000's we probably wouldn't have seen the introduction of dual injector rails, secondary butterflies and other great but not highly reported ideas on road bikes.

[Fast Eddie]

or we could all be riding on mental 500cc 2 strokes with 200hp..

that would also be nice..

but I guess dual rail fuel injection and secondary butterflies also sounds cool... :wacko:

[Mental Trousers]

Its not just the TC that count as electrics. Its the actual format of the ECU themselves that runs into the production bikes ie the software inside is usually developed on track then a softer form is passed to the proddy bikes. Lessons learned from the way they fuel and spark race bikes are definitely passed on to road bikes. I imagine that as MotoGP have to run small fuel loads they have very precise control over fueling controls surely this has benefits on the road?
If there was a spec ecu with racing back in the early 2000's we probably wouldn't have seen the introduction of dual injector rails, secondary butterflies and other great but not highly reported ideas on road bikes.

Exactly.

I'm all for banning things like accelerometers, gyroscopes, GPS etc. But I never like the idea of a spec ECU simply because it leaves no room for the teams to experiment. The software is where MotoGP contributes the most to road vehicles.

[merv]

If they want to dumb it down why not bring back carburettors and ignition points?

[Mental Trousers]

That a very non-Green option

[Oscar]

A Suzuki at Misano?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120628ruydernotes.htm

[pritch]

Without comment:

[cmoore]

Prototypes......thats what is is all about and always has been...riders and teams have always tried anything they think will make the bike go faster or stop faster or go around corners faster or take off faster.....or lighter...or stickier......anything....and I for one love it......i think if you try to take that away it ruins the whole idea....limit motor size....ok....limit vision or experimentation...nah.....blah blah....go spies.....might be his weekend again....anything he can do to get points away from stoner or pedrosa would be good..:)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Prototypes......thats what is is all about and always has been...riders and teams have always tried anything they think will make the bike go faster or stop faster or go around corners faster or take off faster.....or lighter...or stickier......anything....and I for one love it......i think if you try to take that away it ruins the whole idea....limit motor size....ok....limit vision or experimentation...nah.....blah blah....go spies.....might be his weekend again)

I agree with all of this!

[slowpoke]

Prototypes......thats what is is all about and always has been...riders and teams have always tried anything they think will make the bike go faster or stop faster or go around corners faster or take off faster.....or lighter...or stickier......anything....and I for one love it......i think if you try to take that away it ruins the whole idea....limit motor size....ok....limit vision or experimentation...nah.....blah blah....go spies.....might be his weekend again....anything he can do to get points away from stoner or pedrosa would be good..:)

I think if you read through the rules you'd be suprised just how many restrictions already exist, and not just stuff introduced recently. Basic example? I always thought Erik (see what I did there Dave?) Buell's rim brake concept was crap, proven by the lack of use in MotoGP (and my old pushbike). Turns out nobody used it because max rotor size is limited to 320mm.....and because it's crap.

Protoypes, always has been? Back in the day you could virtually go to your local Yamaha dealer and order a TZ750, they were made in such numbers. So more production bike than protype. Same goes for plenty of other Grand Prix machines.

As for the "idea" that's different for just about all of us. Your "idea" puts the emphasis on the manufacturers and machines, whereas my "idea" puts more emphasis on the riders and the display of their talent. I want to see riders controlling wheelies, and feathering the gas with the back wheel a foot out of line....not some software program I can't even see. Pity we're both being short changed at the moment.

Bang on with Spies though, "GO SON!"

[Matt Bleck]

the last 6 mins of qual was awesome :drool:

[Crasherfromwayback]

the last 6 mins of qual was awesome :drool:

Real nasty biff for Stoner in 3rd practice. Awesome lap by him in Qual considering how banged up he is.

[BMWST?]

dont forget the races are tonight ss3 8 45 precceded by delayed moto gp qual replay at 7 30 pm

[Crasherfromwayback]

dont forget the races are tonight ss3 8 45 precceded by delayed moto gp qual replay at 7 30 pm

MotoGP.com for me!

[nallac]

the last 6 mins of qual was awesome :drool:

I wish i wasn't so pissed last night so i could remember it........

[Brian d marge]

I wish i wasn't so pissed last night so i could remember it........

you and me both

[BMWST?]

I wish i wasn't so pissed last night so i could remember it........

its on sky sport 3 at 7 30

[nallac]

its on sky sport 3 at 7 30

Thanks but i'm in Melbourne..
Will watch the race tonight Live on free TV.

[carbonhed]

The aerial shots of the Moto3 are amazing.

Wow. What a race!

[nallac]

First corner...fark...

[tbs]

First corner...fark...

He really screwed that one up a treat. Of all the people to spear off the track too..... Bit of a laugh Crutchlow calling him a dickhead after the race and the commentators having to apologise for his language.

[rapid van cleef]

best races so far this season i reckon, fuck yeah!

[Motig]

Well they got to do something about MotoGP. For quite a while now its been mainly a 2 horse race and when one of thems taken out its just not worth watching, I went to bed after Stoner and Pedrosa got away, you knew what was going to happen. But Moto2 and especially Moto 3 was brilliant. And lastly my thoughts on Rossi- hes got to get a different ride or retire- Ducati is destroying his reputation.

[rachprice]

I really enjoyed all races, moto3 was awesome!!

They definitely have their favourites aye, where was rossi's penalty when he took out stoner last year?

I feel sorry for lorenzo though

[merv]

Yeah we all know it's only one biff away, and Stoner hasn't crashed out of a race since being on the Honda, Lorenzo has.

Exactly. We know it wasn't George's fault but the points difference was only 1 biff away - now its even - roll on the rest of the year.

[roogazza]

Well they got to do something about MotoGP. For quite a while now its been mainly a 2 horse race and when one of thems taken out its just not worth watching, I went to bed after Stoner and Pedrosa got away, you knew what was going to happen. But Moto2 and especially Moto 3 was brilliant.

Me too Motig, turned it off. (did copy it just in case tho)
Moto2 and 3 got the old ticker pumping.
Seems the answer is the equal machinery races ? Like for example the old Production Racing, as even NZ had once.

[Woodman]

Yup that moto3 race was insane. Fell asleep after that. Woke up just as Stoner made that ballsy pass to win. Good stuff.

[jellywrestler]

Me too Motig, turned it off. (did copy it just in case tho)
Moto2 and 3 got the old ticker pumping.
Seems the answer is the equal machinery races ? Like for example the old Production Racing, as even NZ had once.

what do mean once, visit a track these days and the 250 proddy class is pretty well like the days of old.

[Robert Taylor]

If they want to dumb it down why not bring back carburettors and ignition points?

Exactly, the very pinnacle of the sport should have less controls on technology, bring on more and more electonics. Its not only about the riders and the racing. Its also about the engineering.

[BMWST?]

Exactly, the very pinnacle of the sport should have less controls on technology, bring on more and more electonics. Its not only about the riders and the racing. Its also about the engineering.

as a yamah/lorenzo man Robert how do you view the penalty on Bautista?

[denill]

as a yamah/lorenzo man Robert how do you view the penalty on Bautista?

Ok, I'm not Robert - but what Bautista did to Lorenzo was exactly what Rossi did to Stoner on that infamous day at Jerez.

So it's - who you are, not what you did? :yes:

[BMWST?]

Ok, I'm not Robert - but what Bautista did to Lorenzo was exactly what Rossi did to Stoner on that infamous day at Jerez.

So it's - who you are, not what you did? :yes:

seems to be...the probability of being punished seems to be inversely proportional to your relative status to the person you knocked off

[jellywrestler]

Bautista/Lorenzo


A man who never made mistakes is a man who never did anything...

[pritch]

Ok, I'm not Robert - but what Bautista did to Lorenzo was exactly what Rossi did to Stoner on that infamous day at Jerez.


Not close. Crutchlow said Bautista was still changing up while everyone else was braking. Very gung ho.

Rossi lost the Ducati front end on a damp patch.
Not that the Duc front end actually needs much encouragement to let go.

Lorenzo thinks Bautista got off light, Gresini think the penalty was too tough, so it's probably about right?

[merv]

Any Honda conspiracy theories on this?

[BMWST?]

Any Honda conspiracy theories on this?

if it is Bautista did a bloody good job,judging his front wheel lose to perfection,he was still quite seperated from Lorenzo when he lost the front

[rachprice]

Not close. Crutchlow said Bautista was still changing up while everyone else was braking. Very gung ho.

Rossi lost the Ducati front end on a damp patch.
Not that the Duc front end actually needs much encouragement to let go.

Lorenzo thinks Bautista got off light, Gresini think the penalty was too tough, so it's probably about right?

Pretty much the same, they were both pushing too hard for their ability/conditions/equipment

[carbonhed]

I suspect Lorenzo would have won that at a canter but anywhooo... tightens the championship :laugh:

Good chance for Spies to get amongst the Honda's and help his teammate but that never really looked like happening. Happy for Dovi frustrated for Cal.

Other than that was pretty boring... job done Alvaro Bautista.

Moto3 was epic moto 2 really good.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not close. Crutchlow said Bautista was still changing up while everyone else was braking. Very gung ho.

Rossi lost the Ducati front end on a damp patch.


Spoken like a true Rossi fan.

What a fucking crock of shit.

Rossi, like Bautista, got in too hot and tucked the front taking out an innocent party.

To try and explain it any other way is bullshit, as is Bautista's penalty.

No wonder Stoner's had enough.

[Robert Taylor]

as a yamah/lorenzo man Robert how do you view the penalty on Bautista?

Cal Crutchlow is right, Bautista is a dickhead. He was never going to make that corner. I wonder how much Nakomoto is paying him for taking out the best bike and rider combo?

[Robert Taylor]

Any Honda conspiracy theories on this?

Yep when they cant win legitimately they play dirty.

[gav]

I think Bautista should miss the next race, he had a similiar crash last year didnt he? And I think John Hopkins had to miss a race one year when he did something similiar in the first corner?

[Robert Taylor]

I think Bautista should miss the next race, he had a similiar crash last year didnt he? And I think John Hopkins had to miss a race one year when he did something similiar in the first corner?

Plus a bloody good flogging

[Crasherfromwayback]

Cal Crutchlow is right, Bautista is a dickhead. He was never going to make that corner. I wonder how much Nakomoto is paying him for taking out the best bike and rider combo?

And Rossi was never going to make that corner at Jerez last year.

He's probably just paying Ducati back for Rossi's move last year.


Yep when they cant win legitimately they play dirty.

Be good to see if Lorenzo can shrug it off like Stoner did last year eh. Why do you think Bautista should be punished for doing the exact same thing as Rossi did last year?

[Robert Taylor]

And Rossi was never going to make that corner at Jerez last year.

He's probably just paying Ducati back for Rossi's move last year.



Be good to see if Lorenzo can shrug it off like Stoner did last year eh. Why do you think Bautista should be punished for doing the exact same thing as Rossi did last year?

Because neither ride Yamahas!

[puddytat]

Apart from the drama, there aint much to really say about the race....whereas Moto2/Moto3:woohoo:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Because neither ride Yamahas!

And I truly think that the Yamaha is the best bike out there this year. Doesn't take anything away from Lorenzo's season. He's riding it better than anyone else. The difference between the bikes may make 5 or 10 %. The rider makes all the difference. So far this season, Lorenzo has been the class act by a fair way. The tyres may not suit the Honda, but so what. It's up to Stoner and Pedrosa to get the thing sorted for what they have avail to them. It could've easily gone the other way.

Sort it out. Make it work, or ride around it. Other than that...tough shit.

Lorenzo has set the mark, as Stoner did last year. Lorenzo was taken out, as Stoner was last year. No excuses. Back to square one.

Can't wait for the rest of the season.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Apart from the drama, there aint much to really say about the race....whereas Moto2/Moto3:woohoo:

It's easy to say that if you have no idea about just what those cats are trying to ride eh.

[tbs]

Any thoughts on Cortese's riding into the side of his team-mate? It didn't look like a mistake to me. Just too much aggression. I would have thought that would earn him a talking to.

[puddytat]

It's easy to say that if you have no idea about just what those cats are trying to ride eh.

Oh I think Ive a pretty good idea of what they're trying to ride (been listening to experts on here since ages ago), but unless they have more elbow to elbow racing like the other classes then it gets a tad predictable & has been for years....whereas watching those crazy youngsters going hard out lap after lap with pass after pass & with hardly any crashing is IMO more entertaining.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Oh I think Ive a pretty good idea of what they're trying to ride (been listening to experts on here since ages ago), but unless they have more elbow to elbow racing like the other classes then it gets a tad predictable & has been for years....whereas watching those crazy youngsters going hard out lap after lap with pass after pass & with hardly any crashing is IMO more entertaining.

The thing is mate...it's one thing riding into some other gormless cunt on a wanked up 250 moto cross engined 250 (moto 3), but doing so on a 250hp projectile is another. That's why I think you're missing the point. If you want some REAL elbow action...go and watch a 125cc moto-x race. They actually run each other over.

[pritch]

Spoken like a true Rossi fan.

.
Try watching with both eyes open :whistle:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Try watching with both eyes open :whistle:

Pot-Kettle.

If you can honestly say Bautista's fuck up was any worse than Rossi's I'll lick your balls. If not...come and lick mine.

[slowpoke]

Pot-Kettle.

If you can honestly say Bautista's fuck up was any worse than Rossi's I'll lick your balls. If not...come and lick mine.

So you honestly think racing for position on a wet track mid-race is the same as a desperate lunge up the inside into the very first turn on a dry track? Jerez was a crash fest in tricky conditions and Simoncelli crashed in exactly the same spot/way as Rossi so it's not like Rossi did something totally unhinged. Stoner and Rossi were actually into the corner, part way 'round, while Bautista was still on the farkin' straight....even Lorenzo had only just started tipping in and he was a fair way up the track from Bautista.

So yes, completely different when viewed objectively.

Edit: Stoner has to now be the odds on favourite for the title. Lorenzo is riding like a man possessed, albeit a cold clinical man (with the helmet on, different when it comes off), but it's only the Honda chatter problem keeping him in with a chance. Honda will cure the chatter, Lorenzo lost a brand new engine when skittled so will have to start from pit lane at some stage, Stoner does better at the tracks in the second half of the season, so Honda/Stoner are in the box seat.

Edit 2: Bridgestone need to get their shit together with the tyres. Wearing is one thing, but falling apart mid race is something else and not acceptable.

[jasonu]

The thing is mate...it's one thing riding into some other gormless cunt on a wanked up 250 moto cross engined 250 (moto 3), but doing so on a 250hp projectile is another. That's why I think you're missing the point. If you want some REAL elbow action...go and watch a Formula 1 race. They actually run each other over.

Fixed it for ya.
The F1 powers to be have finally struck up a winning package. 7 different winners driving 4(or5) different makes in 8 races.:Punk: Plus I can't remember the last time some ball licking was offered on the F1 forum I look at.
The motogp folks should take note. I love the technology of the bikes but the raceing is (IMO) dull and mostly predictable.

[Drew]

It's funny watching the comments, biased by rider preference. I don't know what was going through Bautista's head, but given his bike and team, he likely knows the only tv time he'll see is in the opening stages before he can no longer keep a front running pace.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime in my opinion, but there's no point arguing it. Whoever said the Rossi/Stoner incident was mid turn needs to look that shot up though. They were still in a straight line when Rossi went down.

This all plays into Pedrosa having a better chance, and I really believe he deserves a title.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So you honestly think racing for position on a wet track mid-race is the same as a desperate lunge up the inside into the very first turn on a dry track? Jerez was a crash fest in tricky conditions and Simoncelli crashed in exactly the same spot/way as Rossi so it's not like Rossi did something totally unhinged. .

Sorry Spud, Rossi did exactly the same thing in my opinion. Doesn't make any diff wether it's the first corner or the last in my eyes. It was an amateur fuckup by both of them, end of story. Simmo lost it powering up, not going in too from memory.


It's funny watching the comments, biased by rider preference..

Mine ain't about rider perference. I'm a fan of Rossi and Bautista.

[eelracing]

Sorry Spud, Rossi did exactly the same thing in my opinion. Doesn't make any diff wether it's the first corner or the last in my eyes.

Like fuck he did the exact same thing,Rossi was storming up through the field at the time and came across Stoner parking it in the corner like your grandma on a sunday excursion.The day a racer does'nt go for the gap is the day they should retire.

Bautista however was an out of control lunatic and if I remember correctly the GP commission has warned riders that any first corner antics will be dealt with severely since that massive pile-up involving Gibernau and Capirossi and others a few years back.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Like fuck he did the exact same thing,Rossi was storming up through the field at the time .

lol. Que dramatic music. Hate to tell ya, but they simply BOTH lost control of the bikes they were riding taking out innocent parties. Riding BEYOND their abilities at the time.

[slowpoke]

Whoever said the Rossi/Stoner incident was mid turn needs to look that shot up though. They were still in a straight line when Rossi went down.

This all plays into Pedrosa having a better chance, and I really believe he deserves a title.

The pic shows they are into the corner, with Rossi in front as he loses it. Nothing like Bautista losing it with no lean angle, 15m behind Lorenzo.

But yeah, I reckon Pedrosa deserves some reward for being there or there abouts for quite a few years, so wouldn't be upset if he nabbed it.

[DidJit]

Anyhoo... Stoner was quite the canny one in this race — followed Dani and let him use up his energy and tyres til he started to lag and then, when Casey knew he still had more in the tank, he just left Dani in his wake.

Got to be concerning for everyone when the tyres are disintegrating like that. Wonder if Bridgestone have any of last year's stock left they can put into use if the weather keeps warming up...

[Drew]

Got to be concerning for everyone when the tyres are disintegrating like that. Wonder if Bridgestone have any of last year's stock left they can put into use if the weather keeps warming up...
Does anyone else remember Fogarty winning a superbike race with a rear tyre that had fallen apart as Rossi's did on the weekend? Think he did about six or seven laps with the bike whacking like all fuck and no traction.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Got to be concerning for everyone when the tyres are disintegrating like that. Wonder if Bridgestone have any of last year's stock left they can put into use if the weather keeps warming up...

Yeah it's a real case of be careful what you wish for eh. Last year they all complained about slow warmup, now they fixed that they're falling apart.

[Maido]

Does anyone else remember Fogarty winning a superbike race with a rear tyre that had fallen apart as Rossi's did on the weekend? Think he did about six or seven laps with the bike whacking like all fuck and no traction.


Good luck!

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/720/rossil.jpg

[Crasherfromwayback]

Good luck!



Aye. Ain't nobody winning a Moto GP race on that!

[Drew]

Good luck!

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/720/rossil.jpg


Aye. Ain't nobody winning a Moto GP race on that!

I never meant to imply someone would, I was just asking if anyone remembered Foggy riding on a tyre that looked just like that one, and having had enough lead to carry on and do the bizzo.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I never meant to imply someone would, I was just asking if anyone remembered Foggy riding on a tyre that looked just like that one, and having had enough lead to carry on and do the bizzo.

Yeah I knew what you were saying mate! Nobody in Moto GP would have enough of a lead now days to make it home in front I wouldn't think. But pretty sure I remember the race you're talkin bout.

[Mental Trousers]

The pic shows they are into the corner, with Rossi in front as he loses it. Nothing like Bautista losing it with no lean angle, 15m behind Lorenzo.

But yeah, I reckon Pedrosa deserves some reward for being there or there abouts for quite a few years, so wouldn't be upset if he nabbed it.

Key points about both crashes are

under brakes
on the edge of the tyre
well before the apex
overly ambitious maneuver

[Crasherfromwayback]

Key points about both crashes are

under brakes
on the edge of the tyre
well before the apex
overly ambitious maneuver


And a total fuckup by people who should know better. Only one of them got punished though.

[merv]

As for the tyres, have Bridgestone outsourced supply to China where they make them from the "highest quality materials" or something like that?

[denill]

Key points about both crashes are

under brakes
on the edge of the tyre
well before the apex
overly ambitious maneuver


They both qualify in the "He's never going to fucken make it" category. :sweatdrop :sweatdrop

[Cleve]

As for the tyres, have Bridgestone outsourced supply to China where they make them from the "highest quality materials" or something like that?

My understanding is that the temperature at Assen was way higher than what BS had expected.

[Crasherfromwayback]

My understanding is that the temperature at Assen was way higher than what BS had expected.

Surely being the middle of summer you think they might expect the (un)expected?

[nallac]

Surely being the middle of summer you think they might expect the (un)expected?

what?, like a ducati actually having enough pace to destroy the tyres?

[Mental Trousers]

The trick with a 250hp motorbike is preserving the tyres. Destroying them is the easy bit.