MotoGP 2012 [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Reckless

21st October 2011, 08:56

Came across a couple of articles speculating the future of the thous and the new structure thought I'd post up for comment.

Firstly we wont see Marquez in MotoGP next season
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Marquez+to+remain+in+moto2+for+2012

And some comment from Cycle world on next years setup and the CRT “Claiming-Rule Team,” thing that you all might find interesting??
http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/10/18/motogp-futures-racing/?zeta_mid=HFM2_603557&zeta_rid=80684095

Wadya reckon will the new rules work will we really see a class within a class or can some actually grab an RSV4 or 1000rr and actually compete???

Interesting :)

Calendar for 2012

Date, Grand Prix - Circuit
15 April, Qatar* - Doha/Losail
29 April, Spain (STC) - Jerez de la Frontera
6 May, Portugal (STC) - Estoril
20 May, France - Le Mans
3 June, Catalunya - Catalunya
17 June, Great Britain - Silverstone
30 June, Netherlands** - Assen
8 July, Germany (STC) - TBC
15 July, Italy - Mugello
29 July, United States*** - Laguna Seca
19 August, Indianapolis - Indianapolis
26 August, Czech Rep. - Brno
16 September, San Marino & Riviera di Rimini - Misano
30 September, Aragon - Motorland
14 October, Japan - Motegi
21 October, Malaysia - Sepang
28 October, Australia - Phillip Island
11 November, Valencia - Ricardo Tormo – Valencia

* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
*** Only MotoGP class
STC (Subject to the contract)
TBC (To be confirmed)

Reckless

21st October 2011, 15:05

More info!

Edwards is taking the CRT plunge!

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/edwards+to+bmw+suter+for+2012

Jeepers imagine if he could get it semi competitive??
Wonder how many more goin up!
May be better feeder steep from Moto 2 being created here and we'll see the young guns in the CRT teams??
You could have a mix of the old guys fading out developing the chassis and engines and the young guns shooting for the top? Would that be plain dangerous or some damn good racing?? Interesting :)

Imagine if one of these could beat the struggling Duc team? Rossi 2.5ish secs down on Pedrosa just now in Practice one. Now that would be embarrassing?

Just speculating out loud here but doubt they can get close 60hp down??

Reckless

9th November 2011, 09:35

ha seem to be talkin to myself about the 2012 season but just scored this off Moto GP .com

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/valencia+motogp+test+ducati

From the comments Fillippo is saying they are sticking to the Aluminum perimeter frame design if it "is a starting point for developing next year’s bike" He also says part of the reason for this is the 6 engine rule preventing them from developing the previous ideas.

Pics here http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newstitle=First-pictures%3A-Rossi-rides-the-aluminium-framed-GP12&newsid=6022

Rossi did say this on tweet RT @birtymotogp: Rossi said no major improvement with new chassis. Still not fast enough mid-corner, work to do but optimistic

Nice acknowledgement about his riders to.

Just thought I'd share??

Suzuki given the hard word to make a decision here
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/November/nov0811-suzuki-set-friday-deadline-commit-motogp-2012/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

and Bautista might take Marco's vacant seat on the Honda?

roogazza

9th November 2011, 09:49

Similar stuff here:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/November/nov0711-ducati-to-test-twin-spar-aluminium-chassis-valencia/

Oscar

9th November 2011, 10:18

I was speaking to Mike Webb at Phillip Island and asked him what would happen if a CRT bike won a race ahead of the MotoGP prototypes.
He said he'd be delighted, which surprised me a bit as I thought that they wouldn't want to piss off Honda.

Essentially the problem at the moment (which Paul Butler also alluded to in an interview recently) is that MotoGP bikes cost too much and the teams (particularly Honda) have too much power. Apparently Marquez was asked for $5.5m for a Honda, plus half a mill for the flash gearbox!

Reckless

9th November 2011, 11:22

Similar stuff here:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/November/nov0711-ducati-to-test-twin-spar-aluminium-chassis-valencia/

Certainly gives the impression all are working together toward a common goal in the Ducati camp!
I'm not such a Ducati fan as a bike make but you really got to admire them for trying options and thinking out of the square.
If it wasn't for Stoner getting results on the old design they probably would have been here a year or two ago.
So in the end unfortunately they had to give in and join the masses, hopefully all Ducati riders will end up with a better bike after all this is over :)

I was speaking to Mike Webb at Phillip Island and asked him what would happen if a CRT bike won a race ahead of the MotoGP prototypes.
He said he'd be delighted, which surprised me a bit as I thought that they wouldn't want to piss off Honda.

off moto GFP.com
"there were three CRT machines out on track. Iván Silva, testing an Inmotec, Carmelo Morales on a Suter frame with a BMW engine, and Gianluca Nannelli on Italian factory Gapam’s effort."

I'm quite sure Suter and BMW will be tryin hard! BMW don't seem to do anything by 1/2's. What they need is a named rider or a brilliant up and comer to ride the arse of one and get it up there. Now that would be a dream come true for Moto GP fans.

Test times

Test Times Valencia:
1. Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda 1m 32.186s (40 laps)
2. Casey Stoner AUS Repsol Honda 1m 32.322s (42)
3. Ben Spies USA Yamaha Factory Racing 1m 33.226s (73)
4. Randy de Puniet FRA Rizla Suzuki (800cc) 1m 33.544s (55)
5. Cal Crutchlow GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 1m 33.652s (75)
6. Valentino Rossi ITA Ducati Marlboro 1m 33.857s (71)
7. Andrea Dovizioso ITA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 1m 33.859s (49)
8. Hector Barbera ESP Pramac Racing 1m 34.174s (57)
9. Stefan Bradl GER LCR Honda (800cc) 1m 34.330s (62)
10. Karel Abraham CZE Cardion AB Motoracing 1m 34.393s (61)
11. Franco Battaini ITA Ducati Marlboro 1m 35.371s (29)
12. Kousuke Akiyoshi JPN Repsol Honda 1m 35.728s (34)
13. Ivan Silva ESP BQR Inmotec (CRT) 1m 37.159s (44)
14. Carmelo Morales ESP Team Laglisse Suter-BMW (CRT) 1m 38.989s (33)
15. Gianluca Nannelli ITA Grillini Team Gapam (CRT) 1m 39.173s (24)
16. Federico Sandi ITA Grillini Team Gapam (CRT) 1m 39.827s (9)

First CRT bike 5 secs down.

pritch

9th November 2011, 11:52

Oscar

9th November 2011, 13:01

Dorna is expecting 24 bikes on the grid by 2013, so that means 10 or 11 CRT bikes?

roogazza

10th November 2011, 07:12

Crasherfromwayback

10th November 2011, 08:16

, maybe they'll all be CRT bikes by then ?

That wouldn't be great.

denill

10th November 2011, 08:22

That wouldn't be great.

Be like going to a WSBK. :yawn:

Crasherfromwayback

10th November 2011, 08:24

Be like going to a WSBK. :yawn:

Correct. No thanks.

Reckless

10th November 2011, 08:38

Bautista confirmed for the Honda!

Isn't Bradl doin quite well for his first run in Moto GP??

Ducati/Rossi only a second off Spies on the Yamaha so they are liking the new changes by the looks of it!

Good sum up here http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Valencia+MotoGP+Test+Wednesday+final

Times here

Session 2 as of 17:03 - 09/11/11
Pos Rider Team Fastest lap Prev. Gap Lead. Gap Laps
1 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Team 1:31.807 - - 45
2 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Team 1:31.968 +0.161 +0.161 33
3 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing 1:32.338 +0.370 +0.531 75
4 Cal Crutchlow Monster Yamaha Tech 31:32.550 +0.212 +0.743 67
5 Andrea Dovizioso Monster Yamaha Tech3 1:33.256 +0.706 +1.449 69
6 Valentino Rossi Ducati Team 1:33.332 +0.076 +1.525 62
7 Karel Abraham Cardion AB Motoracing 1:33.433 +0.101 +1.626 72
8 Hector Barbera Pramac Racing Team 1:33.648 +0.215 +1.841 41
9 Alvaro Bautista San Carlo Honda Gresini 1:33.814 +0.166 +2.007 55
10 Stefan Bradl LCR Honda MotoGP 1:34.142 +0.328 +2.335 61
11 kousuke Akiyoshi Repsol Honda Team 1:34.546 +0.404 +2.739 32
12 Franco Battaini Ducati Team 1:34.840 +0.294 +3.033 74
13 Carmelo Morales TeamLaglisse 1:35.911 +1.071 +4.104 67
14 Ivan Silva BQR Inmotec 1:36.695 +0.784 +4.888 52
15 Yonny Hernandez BQR FTR 1:37.279 +0.584 +5.472 30
16 Federico Sandi Grillini Team 1:38.680 +1.401 +6.873 26

yod

10th November 2011, 08:50

Anyone know if the 107% rule is in effect for the CRTs next year? Judging by those lap times, they're cutting it a bit fine to even qualify...although it's early days yet I suppose.

Pedrosa 1:31.807

Sandi 1:38.680

107% = 1:38.233

denill

10th November 2011, 08:51

Bautista confirmed for the Honda!

Isn't Bradl doin quite well for his first run in Moto GP??

And if you take an outside bet on Suzuki staying it could be with RdP?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111108depuniet.htm

denill

10th November 2011, 08:53

4th fastest here on an 800 :yes:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/1111080wsa3.htm

DidJit

10th November 2011, 08:53

Be like going to a WSBK. :yawn:

Doesn't look (http://motogpmatters.smugmug.com/MotoGP/2011/Valencia-Test/i-kzD2S9d/0/XL/IMG3991-XL.jpg) very WSBK to me. But then again, I don't know shit... More here (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/201111085491/Le-MototoGP-e-le-CRT-a-Valencia.html).

Crasherfromwayback

10th November 2011, 09:12

Doesn't look (http://motogpmatters.smugmug.com/MotoGP/2011/Valencia-Test/i-kzD2S9d/0/XL/IMG3991-XL.jpg) very WSBK to me. But then again, I don't know shit... More here (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/201111085491/Le-MototoGP-e-le-CRT-a-Valencia.html).

But when you hear talk of control ecu's and lowered and enforced rev limits, it sure as fuck doesn't sound like Moto GP either.

DidJit

10th November 2011, 09:49

Crasherfromwayback

10th November 2011, 09:55

It's a tough one alright. But making them more and more like noisy proddie bikes ain't the answer in my eyes.

Oscar

10th November 2011, 09:59

Oh, are you talking from a purist's point of view? Haha ;)

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again. "CRT" is just a way to try to achieve that. Do you think the engineers and electronics gurus won't try to maximise every bit of performance out of whatever they have to work with?

Right now, €4,500,000 + €750,000 (that's roughly about NZ$9 million at the moment) for a Honda satellite and one of their trick gearboxes is just an obscene amount of money. Then you have team wages, rider wages, hospitality, management, etc. With no limitations, the factories are driving costs up and up. I reckon with a few restrictions, you will still see engineers and teams push on technologically to get "that little bit extra" out of what they've got to work with; you'll still see the bikes getting faster and faster.

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years. Even though the Moto2s aren't like the 250GP bikes of old, you still see great racing, great talent coming to the fore, and more and more development on those machines making them faster and faster within the confines of the Moto2 rules.

That pretty much sums it up,the only thing to add is the fact that Brand H and Brand D currently represent most of the grid and consequently have too much bargining power. The whole 800 experiment was the behest of Honda, who threatened to take their toys and leave.

It's great to have state of the art prototypes, but as things stand if either Honda or Ducati withdrew, there would be no MotoGP.

DidJit

10th November 2011, 10:04

I know, the teams and factories need to get sponsorship from the world's banks — they all seem to be making nice lil' profits these days. ;) HSBC Honda, Santander Group Ducati, CCBC Yamaha, BBVA Suzuki, ICBC Kawasaki. Sorted. :niceone:

Cleve

10th November 2011, 16:06

Oh, are you talking from a purist's point of view? Haha ;)

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again. "CRT" is just a way to try to achieve that. Do you think the engineers and electronics gurus won't try to maximise every bit of performance out of whatever they have to work with?

Right now, €4,500,000 + €750,000 (that's roughly about NZ$9 million at the moment) for a Honda satellite and one of their trick gearboxes is just an obscene amount of money. Then you have team wages, rider wages, hospitality, management, etc. With no limitations, the factories are driving costs up and up. I reckon with a few restrictions, you will still see engineers and teams push on technologically to get "that little bit extra" out of what they've got to work with; you'll still see the bikes getting faster and faster.

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years. Even though the Moto2s aren't like the 250GP bikes of old, you still see great racing, great talent coming to the fore, and more and more development on those machines making them faster and faster within the confines of the Moto2 rules.

exactly - it took Honda with its huge price increases to lease the 1000 plus the enormously expensive gearbox for Carmelo to finally have the ability to put the fight back to the factories (mostly Honda). I don't blame Honda at all. Their philosophy is win at all cost and the result is some of the best and most beautiful race bikes in the world. However it has just got too much. And similar to what F1 did a year or so back they are looking at workable and creative solutions. The CRT thing will be forced to work. Carmelo has clearly stated that if CRT's need even bigger fuel tanks to be competitive then he would look at that. I think sexy frames and fairings from lots of different manufacturers (like Moto 2) with lots of different engines as well (not like Moto2) is potentially great - as long as they are the fastest, sexiest machines and the racing is close and exciting.

k14

10th November 2011, 17:39

Oh, are you talking from a purist's point of view? Haha ;)

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again. "CRT" is just a way to try to achieve that. Do you think the engineers and electronics gurus won't try to maximise every bit of performance out of whatever they have to work with?

Right now, €4,500,000 + €750,000 (that's roughly about NZ$9 million at the moment) for a Honda satellite and one of their trick gearboxes is just an obscene amount of money. Then you have team wages, rider wages, hospitality, management, etc. With no limitations, the factories are driving costs up and up. I reckon with a few restrictions, you will still see engineers and teams push on technologically to get "that little bit extra" out of what they've got to work with; you'll still see the bikes getting faster and faster.

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years. Even though the Moto2s aren't like the 250GP bikes of old, you still see great racing, great talent coming to the fore, and more and more development on those machines making them faster and faster within the confines of the Moto2 rules.
Thats spot on. I read the other day that Bradl can't afford to get into MotoGP because his sponsors will "only" bring $2.5 million euro. So I guess that means another year for him in Moto 2. Something has to be done to avoid the yawn fest of 90% of the races from this season. Control ECU is probably not a bad place to start. Take some leafs out of F1's book, that is normally a yawn fest but this year has been heaps more interesting than MotoGP.

Crasherfromwayback

10th November 2011, 18:15

. Something has to be done to avoid the yawn fest of 90% of the races from this season. .

Hell man...you must be watching different races to me.

CHOPPA

10th November 2011, 21:23

Introduce pit stops I love the flag to flag races when it rains halfway through....

Bautista is the one to watch for next year id say. Not for the title but to step into Marcos spot on the track (and the team)

eelracing

11th November 2011, 15:11

Essentially the problem at the moment (which Paul Butler also alluded to in an interview recently) is that MotoGP bikes cost too much and the teams (particularly Honda) have too much power. Apparently Marquez was asked for $5.5m for a Honda, plus half a mill for the flash gearbox!
This same rational has been used to get rid of the last two pure prototype classes.I can see a pattern forming and it shits me no-end thinking of the consequences

Dorna is expecting 24 bikes on the grid by 2013, so that means 10 or 11 CRT bikes?

[COLOR="#0000FF"]That would be great, maybe they'll all be CRT bikes by then ?

Stop taking the piss roog.

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again.

We hav'nt had full grids since the early Eighties.And anyways who gives a toss about who finishes off the podium?

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years.
Ah this old chestnut...don't hold your breath Didjit

It's great to have state of the art prototypes, but as things stand if either Honda or Ducati withdrew, there would be no MotoGP.

Utter rubbish...it's survived without them before and Honda could'nt stand being out of THE premiere series for long.

exactly - it took Honda with its huge price increases to lease the 1000 plus the enormously expensive gearbox for Carmelo to finally have the ability to put the fight back to the factories (mostly Honda). However it has just got too much. I think sexy frames and fairings from lots of different manufacturers (like Moto 2) with lots of different engines as well (not like Moto2) is potentially great - as long as they are the fastest

Well we are still waiting for that to happen in Moto2...oh thats right the single engine rule has been added on for another two years.Who did'nt see that coming?
What your asking for is something my dear old gran used to call "all fur coat and no drawers." ie, a tarts handbag.

Introduce pit stops I love the flag to flag races when it rains halfway through....

It's bad enough having roogazza taking the urine but this is the last straw...next they'll be advocating oval tracks and safety cars,hmmmm someone should put it to Dorna:no:It would make the racing so much more closer afterall and should drag in more fans and sponsorship.

Oscar

11th November 2011, 15:21

[COLOR="#FFFF00"]Utter rubbish...it's survived without them before and Honda could'nt stand being out of THE premiere series for long.

You have a short memory.
Honda packed up its toys for quite some time the last time (from 1968 to 1979?) and Ducati are relative newcomers (and recently withdrew from SBK to concentrate on NotGP - it could have easily have been the other way round).
The withdrawal of either of them in the last few years would have killed MotoGP stone dead.

eelracing

11th November 2011, 15:32

You have a short memory.

Not at all Oscar,you have to ask yourself what brought them back???...it would'nt of been the fact that Suzuki then Yamaha were taking all the 500 spoils would it?Something that Honda had never done I might add.They even went as far as being forced to build a hated two stroke.
No mate Honda and Ducati are in there for one reason only...to be the best.If they no longer want to be the best then good riddance I say.

Oscar

11th November 2011, 15:49

Not at all Oscar,you have to ask yourself what brought them back???...it would'nt of been the fact that Suzuki then Yamaha were taking all the 500 spoils would it?Something that Honda had never done I might add.They even went as far as being forced to build a hated two stroke.
No mate Honda and Ducati are in there for one reason only...to be the best.If they no longer want to be the best then good riddance I say.

Actually you kinda proved my point.
When Honda came back in 79 the other factories were involved.
At the moment, they have nothing left to prove, and little to race against.

Anyway, whether you agree or not, this is how the folks at MotoGP see it, and it's one of the factors that led to Moto1.

gav

11th November 2011, 22:28

Thats spot on. I read the other day that Bradl can't afford to get into MotoGP because his sponsors will "only" bring $2.5 million euro. So I guess that means another year for him in Moto 2.
Or sign on to ride for LCR instead? :msn-wink:

roogazza

12th November 2011, 07:50

This same rational has been used to get rid of the last two pure prototype classes.I can see a pattern forming and it shits me no-end thinking of the consequences

Stop taking the piss roog.

It's bad enough having roogazza taking the urine but this is the last straw...next they'll be advocating oval tracks and safety cars,hmmmm someone should put it to Dorna:no:It would make the racing so much more closer afterall and should drag in more fans and sponsorship.

Think you misquoted me Eel, I'm only in favour of the 24 on the grid part !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :confused:
But shudder to think, maybe a full field of CRT bikes is what it'll turn into ???? hope not.

Reckless

12th November 2011, 08:58

Calendar is out! I added it to post 1 as well so you don't need to dig through the thread to find it!

Date, Grand Prix - Circuit
15 April, Qatar* - Doha/Losail
29 April, Spain (STC) - Jerez de la Frontera
6 May, Portugal (STC) - Estoril
20 May, France - Le Mans
3 June, Catalunya - Catalunya
17 June, Great Britain - Silverstone
30 June, Netherlands** - Assen
8 July, Germany (STC) - TBC
15 July, Italy - Mugello
29 July, United States*** - Laguna Seca
19 August, Indianapolis - Indianapolis
26 August, Czech Rep. - Brno
16 September, San Marino & Riviera di Rimini - Misano
30 September, Aragon - Motorland
14 October, Japan - Motegi
21 October, Malaysia - Sepang
28 October, Australia - Phillip Island
11 November, Valencia - Ricardo Tormo – Valencia

* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
*** Only MotoGP class
STC (Subject to the contract)
TBC (To be confirmed)

Crasherfromwayback

12th November 2011, 09:16

Might have to go back to Laguna and do Indy as well!

rachprice

13th November 2011, 03:52

'Stability should be the preferred option. MotoGP is a prototype class. Print the rules after sensible negotiation between riders, teams, manufacturers, the FIM and Dorna, and get the hell out of the way and let the teams race.'

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111111a.htm

denill

13th November 2011, 06:27

<a href=http://motomatters.com/news/2011/11/11/bradl_to_sign_motogp_contract_with_lcr_h.html>Bradl & LCR:</A>

Reckless

15th November 2011, 17:14

Bugger this is no good if its true??

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/November/nov1411-suzuki-poised-confirm-motogp-withdrawal/

Reckless

15th November 2011, 17:23

Also found this comment interesting from Rossi

"The problem is not the material or if the engine is an important part of the chassis. It is something else like weight distribution because between aluminium and carbon there is not a lot of difference.”

here (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/November/nov1011-valentino-rossi-looks-ahead-to-sepang-test/)

denill

16th November 2011, 07:16

Reckless

16th November 2011, 12:07

Why we're forced to go down the CRT path, whether we like it or not! :weep: :weep:

<a href=http://motomatters.com/news/2011/11/15/suzuki_out_of_motogp_in_2012.html>Suzuki's withdrawal from MotoGP illustrates perfectly why Dorna and IRTA have elected to pursue the CRT project. When the series switched to four-stroke engines in 2002, the manufacturers - assembled in the MSMA - were given control of the technical regulations, on the understanding that they would provide a plentiful supply of machines to fill the grid with. The spiralling cost of racing four-stroke engines, made exponentially worse by smaller capacities and limiting fuel to just 21 liters, saw manufacturers pull out, Aprilia leaving after just three years of four-stroke racing, Kawasaki holding on until 2008, and only fielding a single bike in 2009 after pressure from Dorna to fulfil their contract. Suzuki's withdrawal leaves just three of the original manufacturers in the series, with Honda, Yamaha and Ducati fielding factory prototypes in 2012. Without CRT, there would be just 12 bikes on the grid for 2012, the teams simply no longer able to afford the exorbitant lease prices charged by the factories for their machines, anywhere between 2.5 million and 4.5 million euros a year.></A>

Grisini Honda's first choice satellite team are hedging their bets and going CRT as well with FTR here (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Gresini+announce+2012+CRT+entry+with+FTR)

By golly if Ducati cant fix their woes that'll make it a two horse race between Honda and Yamaha!
And if Honda keep the gap they appear to have and improve on it as Stoner imply's here (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/November/nov1411-casey-stoner-confident-new-honda-will-get-faster/) It will be a one horse race? We might even get to the possibility that Honda see the lack of competition as not worth the large investment especially if teams like Gresini and LCR stop hiring factory bikes off them by going more towards CRT and they can't get some of their investment back. If it becomes a non event up front the camera's will also drift towards where the racing is if its in the CRT bunch.
Bit of doom and gloom there but I really hope the above musings are way of the mark? Big changes and no one will really know till the racing starts?

I suppose the CRT teams have to use the control tyre. The word tyre seems to very much dominate everything now days in Moto GP. No front end feel, hard side wall, chatter, then you have the race that there was so much rubber down last season there was no passing. It just seems we are designing bikes around tyres shouldn't it be the other way round.

roogazza

17th November 2011, 07:23

Crasherfromwayback

17th November 2011, 07:32

denill

17th November 2011, 10:17

There'll be lots of jumping up and down Bill, but Motogp needs big changes. I disliked the canning of 250gp but really the moto2 racing has been a shot in the arm.
I'm sure we'll get used to it.
(haha, at least stoner will be back on the farm) !!!!!!!

Yep, nothing stays the same, eh Gaz.

2012 will see James Ellison in Paul Bird's CRT team along with Edwards and West and it would be good to see some quick youngsters in there too.

Still can't help thinking though that it's just one step removed from WSBK and it will be interesting to compare times. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

denill

18th November 2011, 12:57

<a href=http://motomatters.com/news/2011/11/17/2012_motogp_silly_season_bradl_signing_m.html>

Here's the latest 2012 MotoGP rider line up, as of November 17th:

No. Rider Bike Team
1 Casey Stoner Honda RC213V Repsol Honda
4 Andrea Dovizioso Yamaha YZR-M1 Monster Tech 3 Yamaha
5 Colin Edwards Suter / BMW NGM Forward Racing CRT
8 Hector Barbera Ducati GP12 Pramac Ducati
9 Danilo Petrucci FTR? / Aprilia IODA Racing CRT
11 Ben Spies Yamaha YZR-M1 Yamaha Factory Racing
13 Ant West FTR? / Aprilia Speedmaster CRT
17 Karel Abraham Ducati GP12 Cardion AB
19 Alvaro Bautista Honda RC213V San Carlo Gresini
26 Dani Pedrosa Honda RC213V Repsol Honda
35 Cal Crutchlow Yamaha YZR-M1 Monster Tech 3 Yamaha
46 Valentino Rossi Ducati GP12 Ducati Marlboro
65 Stefan Bradl Honda RC213V LCR Honda
69 Nicky Hayden Ducati GP12 Ducati Marlboro
77 James Ellison FTR? / Aprilia Paul Bird CRT
99 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha YZR-M1 Yamaha Factory Racing

Unconfirmed
51 Michele Pirro FTR / Honda CBR San Carlo Gresini CRT
68 Yonny Hernandez FTR / Kawasaki BQR CRT
22 Ivan Silva? Inmotec BQR CRT
41 Aleix Espargaro? Aprilia Mapfre Aspar CRT
14 Randy de Puniet? Aprilia Mapfre Aspar CRT
Carmelo Morales? Suter / BMW Team Laglisse CRT
Suter / BMW Team Laglisse CRT
All entries with a question mark (?) behind them are best guesses.
All unconfirmed signings without question marks are based on media reports and information from the MotoGP paddock. However, they have yet to be officially confirmed.
All riders entered under the Claiming Rule Teams regulation are marked with CRT after the team name.</A>

denill

19th November 2011, 08:38

Not the way to go? <a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111118electr.htm>Colin Edwards II recalled last year that his 990cc Yamaha factory bike had around eight to 10 electronic settings. He said his 800cc Tech 3 Yamaha satellite bike in 2010 had around 40 electronic settings.</A> :wacko:

Reckless

19th November 2011, 11:32

Good article that and he has a point about all the electronics. Ban them let the rider win :yes:

Crasherfromwayback

19th November 2011, 11:54

Good article that and he has a point about all the electronics. Ban them let the rider win :yes:

Yeah it's hardly rocket science eh!

I've always said...by all means use traction control etc if racing with it improves rider safety for the street. But leave it to the production race classes. As in...Superbikes and Supersport. GP racing should have nothing to do with production based bikes at all. Fuck the electronics.

eelracing

19th November 2011, 16:09

Yeah it's hardly rocket science eh!

I've always said...by all means use traction control etc if racing with it improves rider safety for the street. But leave it to the production race classes. As in...Superbikes and Supersport. GP racing should have nothing to do with production based bikes at all. Fuck the electronics.

Onya Pete but as long as the MSMA (read as Honda)are making the tech regs we're stuck with electrickery :yawn:.
They want it,it sells bikes apparently,but fucked if i'm paying the best part of 25 big-ones to have my ride dictated by a bloody computer programme.

DidJit

20th November 2011, 06:40

... Fuck the electronics.

Altogether (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111118electr.htm) now:...

roogazza

20th November 2011, 07:18

Crasherfromwayback

20th November 2011, 11:59

Onya Pete but as long as the MSMA (read as Honda)are making the tech regs we're stuck with electrickery :yawn:.
They want it,it sells bikes apparently,but fucked if i'm paying the best part of 25 big-ones to have my ride dictated by a bloody computer programme.

Yeah it's a fucking problem eh. Also, the more often they fuck with the rules, the worse it gets. The 800's were finally pretty good...now they're changing again. When the 500's got to the end of their development, the racing was great. There's only so much you can do with a 500cc four cyl two stroke engine right?

Set the rules...and leave them the fuck alone. They'll eventually sort them selves out, a la the 500's! The riders don't want the electronics to win the race, it takes away from their achievements. They're all ego driven fuckers, and want everyone else to know it's them that's better than the rest, not the nerd with the laptop.

Yamaha (or any brand) can sing from the rooftops "Our 35 year old virgin computer nerd has made the new R1/6 the easiet sportbike in the world to ride fast!!!"

And if I was looking to buy one...fucking awesome. But I watch GP racing to see just who is THE MAN. I realize I can't buy me one of them there bikes, and I don't fucking care.

I wanna see who can ride a tyre smoking wheelstanding highsiding cunt of motorcycle better than everyone else.

The rest of the pussies can show us how fast they are on production based bikes overloaded with band aids.

Cleve

20th November 2011, 16:54

We all know if they really wanted to make it cheap enough for more teams to compete, they should simply go back to 500cc two strokes.

That also limits HP etc, as there really is only so much you can get out of one with current technology.

Ban traction control while you're at it.

Sorted.

Well the 250 GP bikes were costing so much to lease that is why we got Moto2. Can't see how doubling them to the 500's will make it cheaper. Honda/Yamaha will still charge an arm and a leg for the best bike.
Suzuki pulling out (actually postponing to 2013 waiting for the rules to settle down) is a good thing. It means the MSMA has one less member giving more power to Carmelo to ram home the changes that many of us want.
Control and power away from the factories should be a good thing. It's not the factories fault. They just can't help themselves.

Crasherfromwayback

20th November 2011, 17:15

Well the 250 GP bikes were costing so much to lease that is why we got Moto2. Can't see how doubling them to the 500's will make it cheaper. Honda/Yamaha will still charge an arm and a leg for the best bike.
Suzuki pulling out (actually postponing to 2013 waiting for the rules to settle down) is a good thing. It means the MSMA has one less member giving more power to Carmelo to ram home the changes that many of us want.
Control and power away from the factories should be a good thing. It's not the factories fault. They just can't help themselves.

Come on mate, you strike me as an on to it chap. You can't tell me that it cost a couple of million Euro to build an Aprillia RS250 GP bike.

They (Aprilia) simply charged that because they could get away with it. Honda didn't sell RS250's to the public anymore, and Yamaha had long given up on the class.

Ask yourself this. How much more does it take, to build a twin cyl two stroke 250 road race bike compared to a single cyl two stroke dirtbike? Twice as much? Fair enough. Call it 50k to be safe.

It's their own fucking fault that they fucked the class.

gixerracer

20th November 2011, 17:31

Come on mate, you strike me as an on to it chap. You can't tell me that it cost a couple of million Euro to build an Aprillia RS250 GP bike.

They (Aprilia) simply charged that because they could get away with it. Honda didn't sell RS250's to the public anymore, and Yamaha had long given up on the class.

Ask yourself this. How much more does it take, to build a twin cyl two stroke 250 road race bike compared to a single cyl two stroke dirtbike? Twice as much? Fair enough. Call it 50k to be safe.

It's their own fucking fault that they fucked the class.

Pete you are correct and wrong at the same time. Your forgetting the sales numbers on a world wide scale is what sets the prcie for the dirtbikes, they sell shit loads of them but the RS250 Aprillia GP bikes or Honda RS etc would not sell bugger all so this has a huge influence on the cost I would suggest. Also the on going devlopment to making them faster so they could beat well them selves in the end a little like Honda in Motogp some would suggest( those dumb fuckers cant see it was only STONER that won or else Yamaha would still be world champs)

Crasherfromwayback

20th November 2011, 17:53

Pete you are correct and wrong at the same time. Your forgetting the sales numbers on a world wide scale is what sets the prcie for the dirtbikes, they sell shit loads of them but the RS250 Aprillia GP bikes or Honda RS etc would not sell bugger all so this has a huge influence on the cost I would suggest. )

Yeah I know that mate, but you got my point. The RS250 Aprillia probably changed fuck all for the last few years. There's no way in fucking hell they should've charged people what they did for them.

Oscar

20th November 2011, 18:25

Yeah I know that mate, but you got my point. The RS250 Aprillia probably changed fuck all for the last few years. There's no way in fucking hell they should've charged people what they did for them.

IIRC, the lease on them was 500,000 Euro (included technician).

Crasherfromwayback

20th November 2011, 18:32

IIRC, the lease on them was 500,000 Euro (included technician).

Which I reckon is fair as. I'm sure your mate Mike Webb could tell us. But I've read all sorts of things in various magazines saying it was in the millions. And that's fucking ludicrous.

So if we double that for a 5 hundy...we'd be looking good again!!

tigertim20

20th November 2011, 19:57

After looking forward to the 2011 season with even more enthusiasm than normal, it pretty much turned into a one horse race. Very disappointing in a number of ways.

Therefore I'll just take 2012 as it comes. If there is actually some competition and the championship is still alive later in the year I may even go to Phillip Island again?

The latest I've seen is that Bautista is heading for Gressini now. Here's hoping he does get that works spec bike.

That pretty much sums it up,the only thing to add is the fact that Brand H and Brand D currently represent most of the grid and consequently have too much bargining power. The whole 800 experiment was the behest of Honda, who threatened to take their toys and leave.

It's great to have state of the art prototypes, but as things stand if either Honda or Ducati withdrew, there would be no MotoGP.
Im looking forward to 2012, as I hope that there will be a class within a class. IF there is, it may encourage more teams/manufacturers to enter a couple of CRT bikes, and maybe eventually a few full house GP bikes - wouldnt that be nice.
I would like to see a bye bye electronic aids rule. perhaps allow the CRT bikes to use them though, might get them a little closer to the moto gp bikes.

the low number of manufacturers is a downer for me, and with Honda and Ducati having had 6 bikes each, theyve probably had alot of sway in behind the scenes decisions, wasnt it honda after all that wanted to axe the smokers?.

DidJit

23rd November 2011, 11:50

CRT FAQ (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/11/22/crt_faq_everything_you_always_wanted_to_.html)...

Reckless

23rd November 2011, 12:02

CRT FAQ (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/11/22/crt_faq_everything_you_always_wanted_to_.html)...

Thanks Mate that was a great read!

DidJit

23rd November 2011, 12:19

Thanks Mate that was a great read!

David Emmett's Motomatters blog is a treasure trove of MotoGP info. :)

Crasherfromwayback

24th November 2011, 10:52

I know I know...it's only early days for the CRT bikes an all that. But slower than a Moto2 bike? Pah.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111123noturkey.htm

merv

24th November 2011, 11:27

Not sounding pretty so far then at that slow speed.

Crasherfromwayback

24th November 2011, 11:44

Not sounding pretty so far then at that slow speed.

Yep. The pro Moto 2/ CRT people miss the point I reckon. I've seen many Superbike Race meets, but until you've seen a purpose built GP bike at full tilt you ain't seen anything like it in the world. So slowing them down to reduce costs, and to have more entrants fucks it completely. Might as well can it, and put all your money in Proddy racing (Superbikes/Supersport) and call it a day.

Remember Rossi's reaction to riding a 500 for the first time in the film 'Faster'? "FUCK!!!" That's how I was just watching my first GP!

Then when the 1000's came along...FUCK again. Now...CRT's and Moto 2 bikes. More like Yawn.

Oscar

24th November 2011, 11:54

Yep. The pro Moto 2/ CRT people miss the point I reckon. I've seen many Superbike Race meets, but until you've seen a purpose built GP bike at full tilt you ain't seen anything like it in the world. So slowing them down to reduce costs, and to have more entrants fucks it completely. Might as well can it, and put all your money in Proddy racing (Superbikes/Supersport) and call it a day.

Remember Rossi's reaction to riding a 500 for the first time in the film 'Faster'? "FUCK!!!" That's how I was just watching my first GP!

Then when the 1000's came along...FUCK again. Now...CRT's and Moto 2 bikes. More like Yawn.

I kinda agree, but the fact is something had to change.
As far as I can see, Honda is the villian of the piece, along with the worldwide economy.
CRT/MotoGP is better than nothing.

Crasherfromwayback

24th November 2011, 12:15

I kinda agree, but the fact is something had to change.
As far as I can see, Honda is the villian of the piece, along with the worldwide economy.
CRT/MotoGP is better than nothing.

Oh I hear ya...and agree that there need to be changes. I just think they're the wrong type of changes, as seeing them slower than proddie based bikes sucks serious arse.

denill

24th November 2011, 12:27

I kinda agree, but the fact is something had to change.
As far as I can see, Honda is the villian of the piece, along with the worldwide economy.
CRT/MotoGP is better than nothing.

You're right. Three factory bikes and must be close to two is not what it's about.

Carmelo Ezpeleta will of course level the playing field by loosenig the CRT restrictiions.

denill

25th November 2011, 05:35

When Lorenzo's racing career is finished he may have other choices as a comedian:

When Harris and Emmett asked Lorenzo what it was like to sit in the booth during the season finale and see his M1 raced by Yamaha test rider Katsuyuki Nakasuga. Lorenzo immediately responded, "It feels like someone else is riding my girlfriend."

Earlier in the season when the Lorenzo and Rossi rivalry was still raging, the real Jorge Lorenzo responded to one of Rossi's verbal attacks by saying something to the effect of 'It must suck to be beaten by kids every weekend.'

roogazza

25th November 2011, 07:52

Oh I hear ya...and agree that there need to be changes. I just think they're the wrong type of changes, as seeing them slower than proddie based bikes sucks serious arse.

Most would prefer prototypes Pete, but the main audience aren't all using stopwatches. I'm sure it'll be ok racing. I hope Stoner stays if it becomes totally CRT.
The current Bridgestone wearers don't match all of the Michelin race and lap records do they, as an example ?

Crasherfromwayback

25th November 2011, 08:17

Most would prefer prototypes Pete, but the main audience aren't all using stopwatches. I'm sure it'll be ok racing. I hope Stoner stays if it becomes totally CRT.
The current Bridgestone wearers don't match all of the Michelin race and lap records do they, as an example ?

You don't need a stopwatch to see the difference between a proper GP bike and a proddie based bike, you know that.

And I'm only guessing (can't be arsed looking), but I would've thought the only records left from Michelin days would be qualifying laps on 'Q's'.

slowpoke

25th November 2011, 08:38

I know I know...it's only early days for the CRT bikes an all that. But slower than a Moto2 bike? Pah.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111123noturkey.htm

C'mon Pete, when the flag drops next season no way in farkin' hell is a 125hp prototype framed Moto2 bike gonna be faster than something similar with nearly twice the horsepower (insert that gear driven cam RSV4 engine here), carbon brakes, open gear ratio's (which the Moto2 bikes don't have).

You don't need a stopwatch to see the difference between a proper GP bike and a proddie based bike, you know that.

It wasn't that long ago that a Ducati Superbike was quicker than an NSR500.........

Crasherfromwayback

25th November 2011, 08:44

C'mon Pete, when the flag drops next season no way in farkin' hell is a 125hp prototype framed Moto2 bike gonna be faster than something similar with nearly twice the horsepower (insert that gear driven cam RSV4 engine here), carbon brakes, open gear ratio's (which the Moto2 bikes don't have).

It wasn't that long ago that a Ducati Superbike was quicker than an NSR500.........

Yeah...and I said they'll get quicker soon enough.

At one track...Donington if I remember correctly...Steve Hislop?

You've been to a GP though have you not? And a World Superbike meet? If so...are you gonna tell me the WSB meet was as awesome as the GP?

I've been to dozens of both...and to me, there's simply no comparison. My point being...if we're gonna dumb down GP bikes, to proddie based race bikes...might as well simply can the show and go to Superbike meets.

DidJit

25th November 2011, 10:36

Ok, I'm gonna troll just a little bit, but actually I'm genuinely curious... What is proddie-based about these new CRTs?

I'm just assuming here, but they have the same Bridgestones as the factory GP bikes (doesn't that sound like an oxymoron — factory prototype?... I digress...); the same wheels; the same carbon brakes; the same Öhlins suspension; a full prototype chassis; the same electronics package base (actually, I'm not sure about that last one)...

The only thing the CRTs are starting from a production base is the lump — and even then, they're not just bolting in a stock standard 1000cc. I understand (and I may very well be wrong) that most of the current production sports bike litre engines will have to be modified to 81 x 48.5mm bore and stroke, and then have all sorts of other go-fast bits added (gear driven cams etc.)...

So in my simple mind, what rolls out of a CRT garage is absolutely nothing like what I could purchase off the showroom floor. So what's proddie about them? :bleh: ;) :sunny:

Crasherfromwayback

25th November 2011, 11:23

Ok, I'm gonna troll just a little bit, but actually I'm genuinely curious... What is proddie-based about these new CRTs?

The only thing the CRTs are starting from a production base is the lump — and even then, they're not just bolting in a stock standard 1000cc. I understand (and I may very well be wrong) that most of the current production sports bike litre engines will have to be modified to 81 x 48.5mm bore and stroke, and then have all sorts of other go-fast bits added (gear driven cams etc.)...

So in my simple mind, what rolls out of a CRT garage is absolutely nothing like what I could purchase off the showroom floor. So what's proddie about them? :bleh: ;) :sunny:

Fair question! When I use the term proddie based, I'm referring to a type of racing more than the bike its self if that makes sense. All the rules (bore and stroke, number of cyls, limit of fuel etc etc), is making it more like 'proddie based' racing than open slather GP racing where pretty much anything goes within a much looser set of rules.

But regardless of rules...and time you slow the bikes down THAT much to make racing 'better'...you're fucking it. Humans get faster, All Blacks get bigger. Racing gets faster...let it be.

DidJit

25th November 2011, 11:58

Fair enough. I think the GP racing concept and atmosphere is embedded in enough people that it'll remain for some time yet. :)

As far as going faster, I think the factories that are able to afford fielding a full-on prototype will keep lowering the lap times, and I don't see Casey as the resting-on-his-laurels type either (meaning the riders and teams will keep pushing to beat their previous times as a matter of simple human nature). I reckon the CRTs will replace the satellites and then the factories (as evidenced already by Aprilia) may well alter their approach to suit (in terms of selling/leasing race bikes for the GP grid).

I wonder how long before a CRT bike beats a satellite bike next year. Or, even better, how long before a CRT beats all the satellites. :D

Brian d marge

25th November 2011, 11:59

I have a photo of one of the crt engines , unfortunately I'm using a tablet PC, and I'm not sure how to upload ...from here

sure does look different though....
stephen

Crasherfromwayback

25th November 2011, 12:02

I have a photo of one of the cry engines , unfortunately I'm using a tablet PC, and I'm not sure how to upload ...from here

sure does look different though....
stephen

TZ Yamaha's tend to...

slowpoke

25th November 2011, 23:32

Fair question! When I use the term proddie based, I'm referring to a type of racing more than the bike its self if that makes sense. All the rules (bore and stroke, number of cyls, limit of fuel etc etc), is making it more like 'proddie based' racing than open slather GP racing where pretty much anything goes within a much looser set of rules.

But regardless of rules...and time you slow the bikes down THAT much to make racing 'better'...you're fucking it. Humans get faster, All Blacks get bigger. Racing gets faster...let it be.

But aren't you keen to fuck off the electronics? Doesn't all the electrickery makes the bikes MUCH betterer gooder fasterer? So why the contradiction?

The answer is that it's not just about a laptime, it's about "The Show".

From the Cemetery Circuit organisers to Dorna, organisers don't go spruiking to potential sponsors or media groups about laptimes, you talk up how brilliant the show is and how excited people are by your product. You can have incredible machines and amazing riders destroying lap times wherever they go but if it's a tiny field and they go 'round like boring slot cars then I'm not gonna watch them, just like I can't be arsed watching F1. If you have to add compulsory pitstops to a race to generate some approximation of excitement there's something majorly wrong.

That's the situation we're approaching with MotoGP, where we're hoping for rain just to add some sort of variability. With manufacturers deserting the series and only 2 competitive teams (and even that is debatable) and no hope of anyone else outspending Honda how are things likely to change? Wait for Honda to get bored?

Seriously, what's the alternative? They have to be slowed down, they are already too fast for many circuits where runoff is at a premium, and they're only going to get faster. So why not slow them down in a way that drags in many different manufacturers, and many different variables, where you don't need the budget of a multinational conglomerate to be competitive? Sure a spec ECU minus the traction control etc would improve things but you are still stuck with a pitiful number of manufacturers/entrants and still have exhorbitant costs in getting even an uncompetitive bike on the grid. And while the anoraks out there might feel their eyeballs have been soiled I can't help thinking that a field of 25-30 153kg bikes packing 230-240hp (Biaggi's RSV4 is +215hp) will be a pretty good show.

Nah, I reckon change had to come and this isn't a bad first step. I'm not totally convinced yet, it'll be interesting to see how things develop, but I'm glad they are trying something to get MotoGP off the F1 path to yawnsville.

Brian d marge

26th November 2011, 02:37

TZ Yamaha's tend to...

Sell quite well. seize ? blow Lilliputian monkeys?

You may have missed a lot ....... have another look at that photo ......

Stephen

roogazza

26th November 2011, 08:08

Had to share this from 2007. Only a couple of laps but worth a quiz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmUF457AQ-c

Crasherfromwayback

26th November 2011, 08:35

But aren't you keen to fuck off the electronics? Doesn't all the electrickery makes the bikes MUCH betterer gooder fasterer? So why the contradiction?

The answer is that it's not just about a laptime, it's about "The Show".

, it'll be interesting to see how things develop, but I'm glad they are trying something to get MotoGP off the F1 path to yawnsville.

I agree with you 100% that something has to be done cost wise to get more involved, and simply culling the electronics will go a long way toward that. I don't think doing so will slow them down that much, but for sure it'd sort the real talent from the nearly. I also a gree with 'the show'...but in my opinion, the show was awesome this year, but they're once again fucking with the rules, and adding costs of having to build another new bike. Stability is a better idea. Hell, even Yamaha said they were interested in building a V-Four engine, but wouldn't while the rules keep changing.

500cc two stroke era rules were the same for a very long time, and had some of the biggest fields ever.

denill

26th November 2011, 09:38

Had to share this from 2007. Only a couple of laps but worth a quiz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmUF457AQ-c

Yeah, a good watch Gaz.....................

What a race - and what was the result.

BTW, the Ducati didn't look to shabby back then :facepalm:

Crasherfromwayback

26th November 2011, 10:06

Sell quite well. seize ? blow Lilliputian monkeys?

You may have missed a lot ....... have another look at that photo ......

Stephen

You talkin 'bout crying over the hole in the cases?

merv

26th November 2011, 15:24

Yeah Gaz a good clip, the boys were close then and funny how the Ducati was so fast - seems like a distant memory now.

Crasherfromwayback

26th November 2011, 17:54

Yeah Gaz a good clip, the boys were close then and funny how the Ducati was so fast - seems like a distant memory now.

How's your eye sight Merv? When Stoner went by Rossi with 7 laps to go...he passed him through sheer cornering speed. Not like he dusted Rossi off down the straight? Seems like people are still having trouble with his '07' title. Pity it's not the only one he's won then eh!!:innocent:

denill

26th November 2011, 18:29

Still waiting for the knowledgeable ones to tell me the result :shifty:

merv

26th November 2011, 19:31

With you all the way Pete, Stoner certainly can ride and he made that Duc go compared to his successors on the brand. 2007 he had the trellis frame though eh and went on to win the championship.

According to this he won that race at Catalunya too http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2008/Catalunya+2007+Stoner+comes+out+on+top+after+super b+race not that I can remember that detail.

Brian d marge

26th November 2011, 22:04

You talkin 'bout crying over the hole in the cases?
Sorry , It was my blasted spell check on the Tablet pc , it auto magically changes it , then its almost impossible to correct it ,,,

CRT , , those were Some CRT cases , wall thicknesses , rods that aint a 17mmm gudgeon pin ,,,and cylinder spacing suggests ,,,they looking for power

Stephen

slowpoke

27th November 2011, 01:52

I agree with you 100% that something has to be done cost wise to get more involved, and simply culling the electronics will go a long way toward that. I don't think doing so will slow them down that much, but for sure it'd sort the real talent from the nearly. I also a gree with 'the show'...but in my opinion, the show was awesome this year, but they're once again fucking with the rules, and adding costs of having to build another new bike. Stability is a better idea. Hell, even Yamaha said they were interested in building a V-Four engine, but wouldn't while the rules keep changing.

500cc two stroke era rules were the same for a very long time, and had some of the biggest fields ever.

Yeah I agree regards the whole stability issue, but it's tricky getting the formula or circumstances right that allow it. Looking back the GP500's seem to be of a much simpler era and it would be interesting to talk to some of the experts in the know about how the GP500's would have developed if they'd stuck with them. Would costs have escalated along with technology as they did with say Aprilia's GP250's? Would we be seeing horrendously expensive funky gearboxes as Honda have developed? Or direct injection, traction/wheelie control and herds of laptop wielding electronics engineers clogging the paddock? Dunno......

The answer seems to lie in the KISS principle though eh? At the end of the day the GP500's were fairly simple machines, just developed to the Nth degree. The trick is to find a similar formula for the 4T's and let 'em get on with it. I know it won't appeal to the purists but in the current economic climate I think we have to be realistic and say that more restrictions or some forms of simplification are required, there's no worse time in the history of the world championship to have a technological arms race.

denill

27th November 2011, 06:26

It's only gotta help the class that's in crisis: :mellow:

<a href=http://motomatters.com/news/2011/11/26/aspar_confirms_crt_entry_with_de_puniet_.html>Another piece of the MotoGP puzzle fell into place yesterday, and another boost for the CRT rules aimed at getting more bikes on the grid. The Aspar team announced officially that they will be racing as a Claiming Rule Team in 2012, fielding riders Randy de Puniet and Aleix Espargaro. The team is to use Aprilia engines in their MotoGP machines, though the press release makes no mention of which chassis they will use.</A>

roogazza

27th November 2011, 11:14

Still waiting for the knowledgeable ones to tell me the result :shifty:

Can't remember the final result Bill , that's all the clip was. But good dicing all the same.
The other teams caught up with Ducati 08 and 09 but yes it was a rocket that first year of 800's.

Crasherfromwayback

27th November 2011, 11:56

The other teams caught up with Ducati 08 and 09 but yes it was a rocket that first year of 800's.

Funniest thing of all is...it's still a rocket. Just no one left with balls big enough to ride it as it obviously needs to be ridden.

merv

27th November 2011, 13:50

Can't remember the final result Bill , that's all the clip was.

I answered that for ya back at #87.

roogazza

28th November 2011, 07:13

Crasherfromwayback

28th November 2011, 07:28

. You got those Tracy Boner glasses on again ? Let it go pete he'll be retired 2013.

.

Better than Rossi glasses. They look really gay. And you may be right, but I think he'll stay a bit longer than that. Maybe at end of 2014?

Shouldn't Rossi's GF be having their baby by now?

roogazza

28th November 2011, 08:29

Maybe a phantom pregnancy huh, keeping it very quiet aren't they ?
I'm still hoping to meet the man one day, have met a bloke from Tavullia who went to school with him, on a flight home last year. He has offered assistance for next years sojourn. Only 2 thousand in the town so I'm getting closer. (storker !)

Crasherfromwayback

28th November 2011, 08:43

imdying

28th November 2011, 08:59

Fuck the CRT bikes and fuck moto2. I would rather the GPs were entirely cancelled before they resorted to that sort of faggotry.

slowpoke

28th November 2011, 23:35

Funniest thing of all is...it's still a rocket. Just no one left with balls big enough to ride it as it obviously needs to be ridden.

It may still be fast but not the 20k's it had over everyone in 07. You got those Tracy Boner glasses on again ? Let it go pete he'll be retired 2013.

.

Stoner included I reckon: 5 DNF's in 2010, 4th in the championship behind a bloke who missed 4 races with a busted leg, he knew the Duc was going nowhere in a hurry. Yup, he won 3 races towards the end of the season but there was a DNF to match each win, and win it or bin it doesn't win you championships. If he thought the Duc was so good why'd he got to HRC?

Fuck the CRT bikes and fuck moto2. I would rather the GPs were entirely cancelled before they resorted to that sort of faggotry.

Nah, if you prefer racing above spec sheets you'll be the one missing out, especially when the spec ECU comes in. The lap times might be slower, the bikes mightn't have quite so much unobtainium onboard, or be rolling IT smorgasboard's, but they'll be spectacular and it'll be more of a riders championship again instead of the engineering olympics it is now.

Now stop typing and put those mad skills of yours towards the 2013 Britten V4 with conventional Ohlins front end.

Crasherfromwayback

29th November 2011, 07:09

Stoner included I reckon: 5 DNF's in 2010, 4th in the championship behind a bloke who missed 4 races with a busted leg, he knew the Duc was going nowhere in a hurry. Yup, he won 3 races towards the end of the season but there was a DNF to match each win, and win it or bin it doesn't win you championships. If he thought the Duc was so good why'd he got to HRC?

.

Don't think I've ever said ANYWHERE ever that the Ducati was 'so good'? It was always a steaming pile of poo, and fucked many racers career. And crashing is what happenes when you try and win all the time on said pile of poo. THat...or finish mid pack as Rossi often did.

slowpoke

29th November 2011, 08:40

Don't think I've ever said ANYWHERE ever that the Ducati was 'so good'? It was always a steaming pile of poo, and fucked many racers career. And crashing is what happenes when you try and win all the time on said pile of poo. THat...or finish mid pack as Rossi often did.

Haha, I'll give ya 10 outta 10 for consistency Pete!

But I reckon the Duc was actually a good bit of gear earlier on. Capirossi won it, and was right in the hunt for the championship until that big Turn 1 crash with Gibernau. Bayliss podium'd early on then came back for that epic 1 off win. So it was no munter.

Stoner's farkin' good but he inherited a good bike, and had a tyre advantage to start with. After that he's the only rider who got to test and develop along with the bike as it morphed into something quite unique. And now the tyres are no longer developed around the Duc either. Pity the bloke who's gotta make the leap of faith when climbing aboard it these days.

Crasherfromwayback

29th November 2011, 08:46

Haha, I'll give ya 10 outta 10 for consistency Pete!

But I reckon the Duc was actually a good bit of gear earlier on. Capirossi won it, and was right in the hunt for the championship until that big Turn 1 crash with Gibernau. Bayliss podium'd early on then came back for that epic 1 off win. So it was no munter.

.

Yeah but both of them had the good results on the thou. The 800 of '07' was obviously fast, but that's not to say it was a good package all round. Like the clip Gazza posted...Stoner beating Rossi then had nothing to do with power whatsoever. Just that some can't accept the fact that maybe Stoner is actually better than Rossi. The stats head to head certainly show he is.

denill

29th November 2011, 09:00

Just that some can't accept the fact that maybe Stoner is actually better than Rossi.

Oh no. Pete you said that? Look out! :facepalm:

Crasherfromwayback

29th November 2011, 09:03

Oh no. Pete you said that? Look out! :facepalm:

Just in case they missed the other thousand times I've said it!

Crasherfromwayback

29th November 2011, 12:12

But I reckon the Duc was actually a good bit of gear earlier on. Capirossi won it, and was right in the hunt for the championship until that big Turn 1 crash with Gibernau. Bayliss podium'd early on then came back for that epic 1 off win. So it was no munter.

.

Revvin Kevin's take on it.

"He's obviously a huge talent. Maybe the Ducati in '07 let him show a little bit of that, but I think if we look back and see where Valentino and Nicky are now with a very similar Ducati, you've got to give Casey a really big pat on the back for what he did achieve while he was there. We all thought in '07 that the Ducati had a bit of a performance advantage. Maybe it did, in a straight line. But not too many of the racetracks are all determined by big long straightaways. He obviously still had to ride the thing really, really hard"

eelracing

29th November 2011, 12:16

Stoner If he thought the Duc was so good why'd he got to HRC?

I tend to think it was because Honda finally got the bike sorted by the end of 2010 hence Pedro's excellent comeback results before his crash at the end of the season.Casey was always biding his time waiting for this as his development record speaks for itself...ie; fail.

Just that some can't accept the fact that maybe Stoner is actually better than Rossi.

And much like Stacey's state of mind some still are'nt quite sure eh Pete???

I have a dream,and in it Rossi/Burgess get the Ducati sorted next year.It may not win any but it will again have the potential in 2013 for some young spunker like a Marquez or Vinales to step into the fold and take it to Honda,Yamaha etal.

Crasherfromwayback

29th November 2011, 12:25

.Casey was always biding his time waiting for this as his development record speaks for itself...ie; fail.

And much like Stacey's state of mind some still are'nt quite sure eh Pete???

I have a dream,and in it Rossi/Burgess get the Ducati sorted next year..

Well you'll see about Stoners development skills in his second year at Honda I guess won't we? Seeing as obviously, he fucked the Ducati in one single year right?

And if you think Stoner is mentally weak, after last year...getting taken out at round two by Rossi yet shrugging it off, and the two really nasty fast get offs (among the smaller ones) and dominating everyone else...I reckon you're deluded.

And lastly...if this year is anything to go by mate. It's just that. A dream.:innocent:

slowpoke

29th November 2011, 23:26

I tend to think it was because Honda finally got the bike sorted by the end of 2010 hence Pedro's excellent comeback results before his crash at the end of the season.Casey was always biding his time waiting for this as his development record speaks for itself...ie; fail.

Yep, Honda did a great job turning that thing around last year. Pedrosa went from "Fuck this!" to "Fuck yeah!" in one season, haha.

And much like Stacey's state of mind some still are'nt quite sure eh Pete???

Nah, I don't think there are too many weaknesses there. He might wear his heart on his sleeve and gob off some shit he'd best keep to himself, but on track there's not much to fault these days.

I have a dream,and in it Rossi/Burgess get the Ducati sorted next year.It may not win any but it will again have the potential in 2013 for some young spunker like a Marquez or Vinales to step into the fold and take it to Honda,Yamaha etal.

Unlimited testing now (except for tyre restriction) so ya never know, but they're effectively trying to create in one year (race winning ally beam frame) what Honda and Yamaha have been refining for decades.

denill

30th November 2011, 06:12

Crasherfromwayback

30th November 2011, 06:59

Unlimited testing now (except for tyre restriction) so ya never know, but they're effectively trying to create in one year (race winning ally beam frame) what Honda and Yamaha have been refining for decades.

Yeah although it's not actually Ducati making the frame is it?

roogazza

30th November 2011, 07:24

Now this might be the best news yet for 2012 :yes: :yes:

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111128b.htm>And another fringe benefit is that De Puniet's girlfriend, the enchanting Aussie Lauren Vickers, will remain a sight to behold in MotoGP paddocks worldwide</A>

251750 Nigella can have me Bill. The other half caught me licking my lips while watching her xmas show last night. :sweatdrop

Crasherfromwayback

30th November 2011, 07:28

251750 Nigella can have me Bill. The other half caught me licking my lips while watching her xmas show last night. :sweatdrop

Yeah I's sauce her buns too mate.

denill

30th November 2011, 07:40

251750 Nigella can have me Bill. The other half caught me licking my lips while watching her xmas show last night. :sweatdrop

So you like her cooking, huh?

roogazza

30th November 2011, 07:54

Yeah I's sauce her buns too mate.

So you like her cooking, huh?

I quite like the idea of her rustling up some eggs in the morning !

slowpoke

30th November 2011, 08:13

I quite like the idea of her rustling up some eggs in the morning !

There'd be some rustling alright but it wouldn't be in the kitchen......

Reckless

30th November 2011, 08:29

Jeepers did a quick search on Lauren Vickers I must say Very Very Nice :eek5:
251757

OK back on topic

Rossi Interview
He's doing better on the dirt on four wheels reading this (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/rossi-i-wouldnt-have-problems-riding-a-crt/19578.html) on Visor Down :scooter:

Supports CRT and is sticking with Moto GP for a few more years?

Guess what he wants for xmas :sweatdrop

P.S. Please crasher a Rossi update is not an invite to turn this thread into a Rossi vs Stoner :bash:

Crasherfromwayback

30th November 2011, 08:44

P.S. Please crasher a Rossi update is not an invite to turn this thread into a Rossi vs Stoner :bash:

Nah you're on the right track with the chickies!

denill

30th November 2011, 08:44

"Finishing second to eight-time WRC champion Sebastien Loeb, the Italian said he was happy with his performance, in particular with beating Loeb in two stages."

Now that is not too shabby at all. What could he do with some rally competition miles under his belt. World Rally Champion?

denill

30th November 2011, 14:38

Jeepers did a quick search on Lauren Vickers I must say Very Very Nice :eek5:
251757
OK back on topic bash:

<a href=http://laurenvickers.com/myportfolio/swimsuit-a-glamour>Damn, I wish I was a MotoGP rider!</A>

Oh, what was the topic? :facepalm:

denill

3rd December 2011, 06:43

Traction control? <a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111130trac34control.htm>I'm with Kevin Schwantz.</A>

slowpoke

3rd December 2011, 07:52

Traction control? <a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111130trac34control.htm>I'm with Kevin Schwantz.</A>

Yep! I don't think Dean's comparison to F1 is very valid for MotoGP though. F1 had big problems with aero that stifled passing (hence the pissy lil' rear wing these days) and that's not really an issue for bikes.

Kev makes a good point regarding the safety issues but surely the 4strokes, especially the 1000cc, won't walk such a knife edge with the power delivery as the 2 strokes did? It'd be interesting to pull the plug on the TC for a test with a decent rider and hear their feedback.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd December 2011, 08:24

Kev makes a good point regarding the safety issues but surely the 4strokes, especially the 1000cc, won't walk such a knife edge with the power delivery as the 2 strokes did? It'd be interesting to pull the plug on the TC for a test with a decent rider and hear their feedback.

I also think Kevin may've bounced on his head a few times too many. Regarding the so called 'safety' of traction control. I've seen pretty much as many highsides on the 800's as I did on the 500's. Yes that may well be the Bridgestones...but. It seems odd. The factories all want the electronics, yet bitch about the cost of racing in the class where most of the horrendous cost IS the electronics. Work that one out.

Reckless

6th December 2011, 09:14

One thing CRT may do is to give a young gun or two a chance to shine on the bigger bike in the premier class against the factory bikes.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/michele+pirro+with+CRT+san+carlo+honda+gresini

Bearing in mind Honda (or any other manufacturer) won't want there equipment to look slow either.

Crasherfromwayback

6th December 2011, 09:15

denill

6th December 2011, 09:46

One thing CRT may do is to give a young gun or two a chance to shine on the bigger bike in the premier class against the factory bikes.

Right. On another tack. I can't help thinking that the enigma that Tony Elias is, that it could be that he would shine on a CRT.

He was a delight to watch on his Moto 2 and it could be that his style could suit CRT?

Reckless

6th December 2011, 09:47

Honda will be more than happy to have a production engined bike look way inferior to their full blown GP bike don't worry.

Possibly crasher but Aprilia and BMW won't and Honda/Yamaha wont want to look sick against them mate!

These CRT machines are a little closer to production bikes than the full blown Moto Gp bike so doing badly in the CRT class might hurt sales more than doin badly in the Moto class? Who knows?

denill

6th December 2011, 09:50

Honda will be more than happy to have a production engined bike look way inferior to their full blown GP bike don't worry.

But - how would they like to see a Honda powered CRT that was not competitive?

Crasherfromwayback

6th December 2011, 09:56

But - how would they like to see a Honda powered CRT that was not competitive?

As long as it's seen to be competitive against the other CRT bikes I'm sure thay'll be happy enough. As said, doubt they'll worry in the slightest if it gets whipped by their own GP bike. In fact, I'm sure that's what they'd want. None of the factories want CRT.

denill

6th December 2011, 10:11

As long as it's seen to be competitive against the other CRT bikes I'm sure thay'll be happy enough.

And that may well be where CRT will succeed?

There will still be competition between factories, Just on a smaller (cheaper) scale.

Reckless

6th December 2011, 10:32

Right. On another tack. I can't help thinking that the enigma that Tony Elias is, that it could be that he would shine on a CRT.

He was a delight to watch on his Moto 2 and it could be that his style could suit CRT?

Denhil your thinking what I was when I started this. Here post 2 :)

You could have a mix of the old guys fading out developing the chassis and engines and the young guns shooting for the top? Interesting :)

Imagine if one of these could beat the struggling Duc team? Rossi 2.5ish secs down .............

Crasher the factory teams ain't got a choice and if someone like BMW starts selling retail bikes, with a chassis developed/based on a winning CRT bike, that would be directly retail sales related. More so than a Moto GP bike off in the distance. There are more diverse hungrier factories now in CRT. Who knows what is goin to come out of the mix?

The thing that blows that out of the water is these fuckin tyres?? why the bloody hell they are designing whole bikes around tyres, should be the other way round surly?
I've had this thought for a while after a few of the teams over the 2011 season keep complaining about lack of front end feel and often said can't modify the bike to suit the tyre? Also the race that there was so much rubber down there was only one race line and no passing as a result.
All you here about is Chatter this, lack of front feel, tyre this, tyre that?? Then there's is the riders and teams that simply can't or don't have the money to change everything for the tyres sake instead of being able to change the tyre manufacturer therefore tyre construction to suit their bike?
Why are we designing whole bikes around tyres. Ain't that backwards! Seems to me there's more cost in the chassis changes than having more than one tyre manufacturer? I realise the intention one tyre manufacturer rule but it just seems tyres now play such a dominant role over everything or was the 2011 tyre simply a stuff up?

denill

6th December 2011, 10:39

Denhil your thinking what I was when I started this. Here post 2 :)

It's easy to recognise a clever and intelligent person. It's when they agree with you. :laugh:

Crasherfromwayback

6th December 2011, 10:47

I realise the intention one tyre manufacturer rule but it just seems tyres now play such a dominant role over everything or was the 2011 tyre simply a stuff up?

That's what you get when someone with as much clout as Rossi starts bitching and moaning about his Michelin's after they gave him how many titles? and such good service, only for him to jump ship 1/2 way through a season to go with Bridgestone.

I'm sure Michelin would've taken stock and come back better. Now look. Rules, rules and more rules. It's fucked the class, but I've still enjoyed the racing this year. And not just because Stoner blew everyone into the weeds.

slowpoke

7th December 2011, 01:13

Yep, would be great to see Elias on a CRT bike. Or Melandri? I reckon they'd offer a bit more than the likes of Edwards or De Puniet.

slowpoke

7th December 2011, 03:04

That's what you get when someone with as much clout as Rossi starts bitching and moaning about his Michelin's after they gave him how many titles? and such good service, only for him to jump ship 1/2 way through a season to go with Bridgestone.

I'm sure Michelin would've taken stock and come back better. Now look. Rules, rules and more rules. It's fucked the class, but I've still enjoyed the racing this year. And not just because Stoner blew everyone into the weeds.

Would you have done any different Pete? Michelin had plenty of time to catch up and didn't seem to be making any progress. That Rossi then went out and won on the Bridgies kinda proves his argument?

As for the tyre war I kinda like the fact that all the riders and teams are starting from the same base point: the point of contact with the road. There needs to be absolute equality in a few areas otherwise it just becomes farcical. If a tyre war is allowed, why not a fuel war? Or remove weight limits and see how light we can get these things? Etc etc. Just my opinion but tyres are one of the crucial areas that should be standardised to keep it a Rider's Championship.

Found a good pic of your boy for ya though mate, shows just how good Stoner and those Bridgestones are:

252153

Brian d marge

7th December 2011, 04:02

the bridgies were a different Tyre , needing a different geometry , if you could get heat into them they were awesome , no heat , no feeling .....

Ride it like you stole it and save 2 pennies for the ferry man

Stephen

Crasherfromwayback

7th December 2011, 08:01

Would you have done any different Pete? Michelin had plenty of time to catch up and didn't seem to be making any progress. That Rossi then went out and won on the Bridgies kinda proves his argument?

]

Not that I've every raced at anything like that level, but yes I would and did. My bosses very generously purchased a full two seasons worth of Dunlop K591R's for my 883 twin sport bike, on Morgan and Whackers recommendation. The bike I was racing was their ex Aust championship bike. But as soon as I got the thing out on track, it was blindingly obvious that what worked on the hot tracks of Australia, didn't work here so well. They took at least four laps to warm up, and the races were only six lappers. As we were not allowed to run tyre warmers, this was obviously a rather large problem. Did I switch to the Avons and Metzelers Ainstey and co were running? Nope. I did the best I could with what I had.

Think you'll find that the Michelins were still better at some tracks the year Rossi left. After all, wasn't Pedrosa winning the championship on them until he broke his wrist in Germany?

slowpoke

7th December 2011, 08:41

Not that I've every raced at anything like that level, but yes I would and did. My bosses very generously purchased a full two seasons worth of Dunlop K591R's for my 883 twin sport bike, on Morgan and Whackers recommendation. The bike I was racing was their ex Aust championship bike. But as soon as I got the thing out on track, it was blindingly obvious that what worked on the hot tracks of Australia, didn't work here so well. They took at least four laps to warm up, and the races were only six lappers. As we were not allowed to run tyre warmers, this was obviously a rather large problem. Did I switch to the Avons and Metzelers Ainstey and co were running? Nope. I did the best I could with what I had.

Think you'll find that the Michelins were still better at some tracks the year Rossi left. After all, wasn't Pedrosa winning the championship on them until he broke his wrist in Germany?

With those sorts of morals what the hell are ya doin' sellin' motor sickles??!! Haha, good illustration though, you've got me fucked now!

Crasherfromwayback

7th December 2011, 09:07

With those sorts of morals what the hell are ya doin' sellin' motor sickles??!! Haha, good illustration though, you've got me fucked now!

lol...I got sick of being a mechanic! Now I've got suck lovely soft hands. Much better for playing with myself.:innocent:

Crasherfromwayback

7th December 2011, 09:11

Casey is not feeling the love! Funny that.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111206stonerv8.htm

eelracing

7th December 2011, 12:38

why the bloody hell they are designing whole bikes around tyres, should be the other way round surly?
I've had this thought for a while after a few of the teams over the 2011 season keep complaining about lack of front end feel and often said can't modify the bike to suit the tyre? Also the race that there was so much rubber down there was only one race line and no passing as a result.
All you here about is Chatter this, lack of front feel, tyre this, tyre that?? Then there's is the riders and teams that simply can't or don't have the money to change everything for the tyres sake instead of being able to change the tyre manufacturer therefore tyre construction to suit their bike?
Why are we designing whole bikes around tyres. Ain't that backwards! Seems to me there's more cost in the chassis changes than having more than one tyre manufacturer? I realise the intention one tyre manufacturer rule but it just seems tyres now play such a dominant role over everything or was the 2011 tyre simply a stuff up?

Mate the intention of the one make tyre rule was always about making "more of a show" but it was hidden behind a keeping costs down reason.And we all know it's a crock.

That's what you get when someone with as much clout as Rossi starts bitching and moaning about his Michelin's after they gave him how many titles? and such good service, only for him to jump ship 1/2 way through a season to go with Bridgestone.

I'm sure Michelin would've taken stock and come back better. Now look. Rules, rules and more rules. It's fucked the class.

Totally agree.But what fucked Michelin was they could no longer bring their overnight specials out on raceday.

Michelin had plenty of time to catch up and didn't seem to be making any progress.

No they did'nt,they never got the chance because of the One Tyre Rule and Bridgestone won the contract.Rainey swapped tyre manufacturers constantly due to team manager Kenny Roberts reasoning that you got stronger support (from then Dunlop) because every other cunt was running on Michelins,so why limit yourself to what everyone else was doing.

As for the tyre war I kinda like the fact that all the riders and teams are starting from the same base point: the point of contact with the road. There needs to be absolute equality in a few areas otherwise it just becomes farcical. If a tyre war is allowed, why not a fuel war? Or remove weight limits and see how light we can get these things? Etc etc. Just my opinion but tyres are one of the crucial areas that should be standardised to keep it a Rider's Championship.

Hell Slowpoke why not standardise the engines and chassis as well...lets call it Moto1 and get this charade called GP racing out the back door with the two strokes.
I'm no fan of CRT but if it goes halfway to bringing back true GP competition between teams/manufacturers/suppliers then i will accept it with provizo's...bring back the tyre wars,I want to see other teams on Miche's,Dunlops,bridgestone as well as WP,Showa,Kayaba,Ohlins,AP lockheed,Nissins,Brembo etc etc like GP racing should be.(might even bring the costs down to boot)

Casey is not feeling the love! Funny that.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111206stonerv8.htm

Nah mate he still comes across as a crybaby.

Crasherfromwayback

7th December 2011, 12:45

Totally agree.But what fucked Michelin was they could no longer bring their overnight specials out on raceday.

Nah mate he still comes across as a crybaby.

For sure mate. But that certainly was a very unfair advantage.

The others must hate being whipped by such a crybaby.

denill

7th December 2011, 12:51

Casey is not feeling the love! Funny that.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111206stonerv8.htm

IMHO what he said would be absolutely right.

There are no piss ups after a MotoGP........................

Crasherfromwayback

7th December 2011, 13:04

There are no piss ups after a MotoGP........................

Apart from an obvious lack of riding talent compared to those sick fuckers, I never would've fitted in anyway!

slowpoke

7th December 2011, 23:59

[COLOR="#FFFF00"] Hell Slowpoke why not standardise the engines and chassis as well...lets call it Moto1 and get this charade called GP racing out the back door with the two strokes.
I'm no fan of CRT but if it goes halfway to bringing back true GP competition between teams/manufacturers/suppliers then i will accept it with provizo's...bring back the tyre wars,I want to see other teams on Miche's,Dunlops,bridgestone as well as WP,Showa,Kayaba,Ohlins,AP lockheed,Nissins,Brembo etc etc like GP racing should be.(might even bring the costs down to boot)

We actually agree, just about different things. Why limit gearbox ratio's (max 6) or brake disc size (max 320mm) or fuel pressure (max 10bar) or electronic suspension or fuel load....and then leave tyres open? I'd rather lose some of the other rules and keep the tyre rule so everyone starts from the same base point and the merits of the bikes/riders are apparent, rather than just the merits of the tyres.

Those companies you mentioned are open to enter, and it would be great to see them competing (again, in some cases), but obviously they either can't or won't supply appropriate products or support. Then again the CRT thing might change that as teams explore their options? The more people are building bikes the more chance of alternative solutions or business partners? Time will tell I guess, but it's a nice dream while it lasts, lol.

Brian d marge

8th December 2011, 01:29

We actually agree, just about different things. Why limit gearbox ratio's (max 6) or brake disc size (max 320mm) or fuel pressure (max 10bar) or electronic suspension or fuel load....and then leave tyres open? I'd rather lose some of the other rules and keep the tyre rule so everyone starts from the same base point and the merits of the bikes/riders are apparent, rather than just the merits of the tyres.

Those companies you mentioned are open to enter, and it would be great to see them competing (again, in some cases), but obviously they either can't or won't supply appropriate products or support. Then again the CRT thing might change that as teams explore their options? The more people are building bikes the more chance of alternative solutions or business partners? Time will tell I guess, but it's a nice dream while it lasts, lol.

Money , is tight with the factories , everyone is scaling back

Stephen

merv

8th December 2011, 07:31

There are no piss ups after a MotoGP........................

Isn't that why Croz got out so quickly too, he just didn't enjoy the way it worked at that level?

denill

9th December 2011, 06:07

<a href=http://www.supercross.com/features/toni-cairoli-teaches-valentino-rossi-how-to-ride-motocross>OK. so it's a bit quiet round here:</A>

roogazza

9th December 2011, 07:35

<a href=http://www.supercross.com/features/toni-cairoli-teaches-valentino-rossi-how-to-ride-motocross>OK. so it's a bit quiet round here:</A>

Roll on March. Have a great Christmas Bill, I'll have a 'Red' and a cigar for ya.
ps Great rider Cairoli but he'd fit in well in the Wairarapa. LOL.

Crasherfromwayback

9th December 2011, 07:51

<a href=http://www.supercross.com/features/toni-cairoli-teaches-valentino-rossi-how-to-ride-motocross>OK. so it's a bit quiet round here:</A>

Wonder how Ducati feel about Rossi being seen on YZF's and KXF's??!!

DidJit

9th December 2011, 10:12

<a href=http://www.supercross.com/features/toni-cairoli-teaches-valentino-rossi-how-to-ride-motocross>OK. so it's a bit quiet round here:</A>

Nice pic of Graziano. :2thumbsup

denill

9th December 2011, 16:13

Nice pic of Graziano. :2thumbsup

Yeah, nice style................

What's he riding?

gav

10th December 2011, 15:59

Wonder how Ducati feel about Rossi being seen on YZF's and KXF's??!!

Or more to the point, why would you approve of your star rider dicking about on a MX bike when the guy basically screwed his 2011 season by injuring his shoulder in a MX accident? Is he really that stupid? :wacko:

And someone posted that Stoner waited until the Honda was sorted before leaving Ducati .... :brick: ummm, no, he didnt leave Ducati because the bike was bad. He had made his mind up to leave Ducati after they chased after Lorenzo when Stoner was out of action. It was the money on offer that was wayyyyy more than they were paying Stoner that pissed him off. He had pretty much signed with Honda after the first couple of races of the 2010 season. To his credit he couldve just cruised through the year knowing he was leaving, but he still ended the year showing that the Stoner/Ducati was as fast as anyone else out there. The front end issues with the Ducati were there when Stoner was riding, hence his front end crashes, but when that happened it was considered Stoners' fault for crashing :wacko:
The main reason Stoner was so fast in 2007 was he finally had a decent front tyre he could use (Bridgestone). When he rode the Honda the previous year he was getting the basic Michelin tyre and wasnt getting the exclusive tyres that the "better" riders got. Again hence his crashing record, but again that was considered a fault with Stoner. :eek5:

Crasherfromwayback

10th December 2011, 16:10

Or more to the point, why would you approve of your star rider dicking about on a MX bike when the guy basically screwed his 2011 season by injuring his shoulder in a MX accident? Is he really that stupid? :wacko:

And someone posted that Stoner waited until the Honda was sorted before leaving Ducati .... :brick::

Yeah it's a tricky one though mate. Moto-x, trials and flat tracking are the best form of practice/training for being better on road racing bikes. All the best racers doit. Hard to rap them in cotton wool AND expect them to kick arse.

The Stoner haters will always be a hatin mate. The guy would have to win twenty titles in a row to even quieten them down a notch.

NZsarge

10th December 2011, 17:32

The Stoner haters will always be a hatin mate. The guy would have to win twenty titles in a row to even quieten them down a notch.

More like 30!

gav

10th December 2011, 18:20

Yeah it's a tricky one though mate. Moto-x, trials and flat tracking are the best form of practice/training for being better on road racing bikes. All the best racers doit. Hard to rap them in cotton wool AND expect them to kick arse.

The Stoner haters will always be a hatin mate. The guy would have to win twenty titles in a row to even quieten them down a notch.

I know a lot of the guys do it (MX "training") but why would you risk it if you were Rossi? How does it help? Fitness? Be better off doing gym work particularly for at his age and with his recent injuries. Throttle control? MX? hmmm, trials, yeah without a doubt. But would be better off doing the XR100 stuff ala Kenny Roberts ranch. Read an interview with Graham Noyce a while ago, an ex World 500 MX champion, and he was asked about this, using MX as training for road racing. Basically he thought it was bollocks, the main reason they do it is its fun, and gets them out of the gym.
Wonder if Rossi has TC etc on his MXer ?

slowpoke

10th December 2011, 22:08

I know a lot of the guys do it (MX "training") but why would you risk it if you were Rossi? How does it help? Fitness? Be better off doing gym work particularly for at his age and with his recent injuries. Throttle control? MX? hmmm, trials, yeah without a doubt. But would be better off doing the XR100 stuff ala Kenny Roberts ranch. Read an interview with Graham Noyce a while ago, an ex World 500 MX champion, and he was asked about this, using MX as training for road racing. Basically he thought it was bollocks, the main reason they do it is its fun, and gets them out of the gym.
Wonder if Rossi has TC etc on his MXer ?

Hmmmm virtually all the road racing champions adopt MX riding as a good training technique, and you choose to listen to the guy who's not a road racing champion? Should we ask the plumber about the sharemarket?

Words straight out of Alistair Seeley's gob after winning the BSB Supersport title (won Superstock 1000 last year) and scoring a Superbike ride with TAS Suzuki for next year:

"...I'll be doing plenty of motocross and trials riding to hone my throttle control." (more at www.mcnews.com.au)

From an interview with Cal Crutchlow about living on the Isle of Man:

"Yeah, we have a good track over here. We go out everyday in the morning and do cycling or running, and then in the afternoons, it's always Enduro with David Knight or Motorcross or Trials Riding so we have a fantastic time over here, as well as living here. Also there's tax benefits, as well." (from http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Sep/100916crutchlow.htm)

I think you're seriously underestimating the training these guys put in:
http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jan/110125benspiescolumn.htm
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Dec/081204a.htm
http://www.cycling.org.au/?ID=39381

gav

10th December 2011, 23:53

denill

11th December 2011, 16:19

The Stoner haters will always be a hatin mate. The guy would have to win twenty titles in a row to even quieten them down a notch.

More like - Never. :laugh: :laugh:

gixerracer

11th December 2011, 16:52

The point was that the top MX guys, and Graham Noyce was an HRC World MX champion, dont race MX to get fit, they train in the gym, also his point was, what skills is leaping around off jumps on a dirt bike going to help a road racer? As I said most guys do it because its fun and beats going to the gym or hammering out the miles on a push bike, oh the fact they get a free dirt bike probably doesnt help.
I was also questioning why Valentino when hes probably not as skilled as some of the other guys who rode MX as juniors would want to risk further injury to fragile parts of his body ie shoulder, knees etc when he has a big year ahead of him on the Ducati?

Have you ever seen footage of rossi on a mx bike he is very very handy indeed.
MX needs a hell of a lot more brut strength than road racing does and thats why the MX lads do more wieghts in the gym.
Road racing is a different type of fitness but you can do all the gym work in the world and if you dont ride a bike for a while as they will not be now because of the testing ban the best way is to ride motocross bikes to keep you muscle memory.
If you think these guys dont go to the gym your kidding yourself they would be there most days of the week.
Why shouldnt they be allowed to ride and enjoy riding a bike in there spare time as im sure the pressure of world championship racing isnt much fun at all (esp on that red thing)

slowpoke

11th December 2011, 23:12

And if they're wanting to maintain/practice their throttle/brake/bike control skills I'm sure they'd rather be doing it at 50-80kph on dirt than 150-180kph on tarmac.

denill

12th December 2011, 05:25

And if they're wanting to maintain/practice their throttle/brake/bike control skills I'm sure they'd rather be doing it at 50-80kph on dirt than 150-180kph on tarmac.

It is an interesting topic and I'm with the 'Riding improves the rider, no matter what they ride or where they ride' school. Sure 'big air' jumps are not going to do much for a road racer so the choice of extra curricular training is relevant.

After saying that - this writer is convinced that trials riding is a big help to ALL motorcyclist's skills. Not just competitors either.

Crasherfromwayback

12th December 2011, 06:57

It is an interesting topic and I'm with the 'Riding improves the rider, no matter what they ride or where they ride' school. Sure 'big air' jumps are not going to do much for a road racer so the choice of extra curricular training is relevant.

After saying that - this writer is convinced that trials riding is a big help to ALL motorcyclist's skills. Not just competitors either.

If you can ride trials well, you can ride anything well.

eelracing

12th December 2011, 11:23

The point was that the top MX guys, and Graham Noyce was an HRC World MX champion, dont race MX to get fit, they train in the gym, also his point was, what skills is leaping around off jumps on a dirt bike going to help a road racer?

Noycey is a great one for quotes,he's the equivalent of roadracing's Wayne Gardner in that respect.In fact Graham earlier in the year was quoted saying that SuperCross was a waste of time due to the fact that there was too much air-time and little actual racing..."all you can do in the air is fiddle with your goggles and play with your knob".Cracked me up that did,but he does have a point.
As for MX training being beneficial for roadracing most people tend to forget the enjoyment factor and gixxerracer hits the nail with the below comment.Rossi and Co just love to ride and it's as simple as that at the end of the day and why limit yourself to just one area of motorcycling.

Why shouldnt they be allowed to ride and enjoy riding a bike in there spare time as im sure the pressure of world championship racing isnt much fun at all

Mick Doohan was prob the hardest trainer of all time and not only in the gym.Also being a hard cunt he never could accept defeat even when anyone else would of bailed out long ago.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VpD64QdpmJY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Badjelly

13th December 2011, 07:24

Noycey is a great one for quotes,...

All good points, probably, but I can't read a word of the yellow text against the Light Universe background.

manxkiwi

13th December 2011, 09:34

All good points, probably, but I can't read a word of the yellow text against the Light Universe background.

Drag your cursor over the text (left button down). Turns it blue.

Reckless

15th December 2011, 08:34

Latest calender update

But I have lost the ability to update it in post 1! :no: The edit post thingy must disappear after a time????
Could one of the mods please reactivate this or replace the calendar in post 1 with the one hereunder???

Date, Grand Prix - Circuit
8 April, Qatar* - Doha/Losail
29 April, Spain - Jerez de la Frontera
6 May, Portugal (STC) - Estoril
20 May, France - Le Mans
3 June, Catalunya - Catalunya
17 June, Great Britain - Silverstone
30 June, Netherlands** - Assen
8 July, Germany (STC) - Sachsenring
15 July, Italy - Mugello
29 July, United States*** - Laguna Seca
19 August, Indianapolis - Indianapolis
26 August, Czech Rep. - Brno
16 September, San Marino & Riviera di Rimini - Misano
30 September, Aragon - Motorland
14 October, Japan - Motegi
21 October, Malaysia - Sepang
28 October, Australia - Phillip Island
11 November, Valencia - Ricardo Tormo – Valencia

* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
*** Only MotoGP class
STC (Subject to the contract)

k14

18th December 2011, 07:46

15 July, Italy - Mugello
Looks like a good one to go take a look at! Hopefully it goes better than Sepang this year :cry:

Anyone else planning on going to any GP's next year?

Oscar

18th December 2011, 12:02

Looks like a good one to go take a look at! Hopefully it goes better than Sepang this year :cry:

Anyone else planning on going to any GP's next year?

We're looking at the two US rounds with a road trip in between.
Mild Hogs?

BMWST?

18th December 2011, 12:28

i htink mx gives them the ability to practise riding on the edge of available traction,controlling front and rear wheel lock ups,is a bloody good workout.What else are they supposed to do to keep the edge.There is no other way to practise for moto gp except motogp.

I think the criticm of bridgestones misses the point.I think they offer so much grip they stress the chassis and suspension to the max(chatter).To get them to grip though they gotta be hot(100 deg c!).The alternative is to have tyres that offer less ultimate performance.

Brian d marge

19th December 2011, 01:18

DidJit

20th December 2011, 09:47

Motomatters interview (http://motomatters.com/interview/2011/12/19/casey_stoner_interview_on_riding_fast_em.html) with CS27...

Crasherfromwayback

26th December 2011, 15:44

THE highlight of the 2011 season. Stoner telling Rossi how it is.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111225a.htm

merv

26th December 2011, 16:48

Yeah that comment of Stoner's was priceless - I wonder if someone had to explain it to Rossi in Italian.

BMWST?

26th December 2011, 17:32

Yeah that comment of Stoner's was priceless - I wonder if someone had to explain it to Rossi in Italian.

i think he heard it fine...he jsut couldnt beleive his ears and he realised immediately that stoner was right(in that instance)

NZsarge

26th December 2011, 18:32

THE highlight of the 2011 season. Stoner telling Rossi how it is.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111225a.htm

And how many times did Stoner's ambition out weigh his talent when he was riding that piece of shit Ducati? Swings and round about's, every dog has his day etc... Don't know if Rossi can get back to winning ways on the horrible Italian bucket-o-shite (seriously doubt it), silly bugger should have shut his mouth and stayed with Yamaha!

Crasherfromwayback

26th December 2011, 18:36

And how many times did Stoner's ambition out weigh his talent when he was riding that piece of shit Ducati? !

Quite a few. At least he won (plenty) of races on it though eh!!!

NZsarge

26th December 2011, 18:41

Quite a few. At least he won (plenty) of races on it though eh!!!

Yeah, when it had a power advantage and wasn't as fucked up as when he left that team...

Crasherfromwayback

26th December 2011, 18:48

Yeah, when it had a power advantage and wasn't as fucked up as when he left that team...

Odd really. The 'power advantage' didn't really help anyone else that rode it at the same time. I notice that this year it was still one of the fastest bikes through the speed traps. Odd that Rossi couldn't capitalise on the speed it has like Stoner did.

You'll also note three other guys had the same package as Stoner did this year. What did they do with it?

Funny that.

NZsarge

26th December 2011, 19:02

Odd really. The 'power advantage' didn't really help anyone else that rode it at the same time. I notice that this year it was still one of the fastest bikes through the speed traps. Odd that Rossi couldn't capitalise on the speed it has like Stoner did.
Rossi isn't capitalizing because he doesn't have a speed advantage.

You'll also note three other guys had the same package as Stoner did this year. What did they do with it?
Usually came second and third or there about's, funny that, must be the fastest bike by some margin aye....?

Didn't say he didn't ride it well when he won the championship on it, but it was way faster in a straight line than the Yamaha's of the time that's a fact, demoralizing when you've worked your arse off to pass the Ducati through the infield corners only to be soundly thrashed down the first decent straight away.

Crasherfromwayback

26th December 2011, 19:10

, demoralizing when you've worked your arse off to pass the Ducati through the infield corners only to be soundly thrashed down the first decent straight away.

I reckon the most demoralizing thing to have happen in racing would be your own team mate beating you on the same bike you have.

It's never happened to Stoner.

NZsarge

27th December 2011, 05:26

I reckon the most demoralizing thing to have happen in racing would be your own team mate beating you on the same bike you have.

It's never happened to Stoner.

Only because none of his team mates have been good enough, same pretty much went for Rossi until Lorenzo came along and Stoner will get a team mate that's just as quick as him, only a matter of time...

trustme

27th December 2011, 06:57

What a load of cods. Right here, right now , & that is all we can judge him by, he is the fastest rider & has been for several seasons.
Sooner or later he will go off the boil ever so slightly, the hunger will reduce , risks will be more measured. Only then will a team mate get near him on a consistent basis.

KR Snr said ' good riders go fast on good bikes it takes a great rider to go fast on a bad bike ' The dukes finished off every career except Stoner & Bayliss.

Crasherfromwayback

27th December 2011, 07:49

Only because none of his team mates have been good enough, same pretty much went for Rossi until Lorenzo came along and Stoner will get a team mate that's just as quick as him, only a matter of time...

As good as you are, someone better will always be along. But I can't see it for a wee while yet.

What a load of cods. Right here, right now , & that is all we can judge him by, he is the fastest rider & has been for several seasons.
Sooner or later he will go off the boil ever so slightly, the hunger will reduce , risks will be more measured. Only then will a team mate get near him on a consistent basis.

KR Snr said ' good riders go fast on good bikes it takes a great rider to go fast on a bad bike ' The dukes finished off every career except Stoner & Bayliss.

Only the truly delusional or blind would not agree/see Stoner for what he is. The fastest man on two wheels in the world at the mo. Has been for a while.

NZsarge

28th December 2011, 02:40

Only the truly delusional or blind would not agree/see Stoner for what he is. The fastest man on two wheels in the world at the mo. Has been for a while.

Pfft! I could take him on a SV650! Fark'in wingnut convict and his wife is ugly! There was a link on here a week or two ago (interview with Stoner) that explained a fair few things to me as to why Stoner could get the Ducati to work better than Rossi at least during the early stages of a race, i'd explain that statement but I can't be fucked as it's 3:30 in the morning.
Actually I saw a pic of Stoner's wife the other day i can't remember where, she was all prettied up for the cameras as usual but she looked distinctly manish... Is there an operation those type can have to remove the Adam's apple? I couldn't see a scar in the picture..:whistle: :laugh: oh well time for:zzzz:

denill

28th December 2011, 06:04

And how many times did Stoner's ambition out weigh his talent when he was riding that piece of shit Ducati? Swings and round about's, every dog has his day etc... Don't know if Rossi can get back to winning ways on the horrible Italian bucket-o-shite (seriously doubt it), silly bugger should have shut his mouth and stayed with Yamaha!

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111221lq.htm>Stoner doesn't care what you think:</A>

Oscar

28th December 2011, 09:20

I'm going riding with the new Race Director on the weekend...

NZsarge

28th December 2011, 09:26

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111221lq.htm>Stoner doesn't care what you think:</A>
The feeling is mutual, both him and that other twat Weber are getting paid less than I thought they'd would be..

Crasherfromwayback

28th December 2011, 09:44

The feeling is mutual, both him and that other twat Weber are getting paid less than I thought they'd would be..

You'll probably find he can pretty much name his price next time round. I certainly wouldn't mind earning 9.5 mill though...dunno about you.

Oscar

28th December 2011, 09:55

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/111221lq.htm>Stoner doesn't care what you think:</A>

That's a peculiarly NZ attitude – he has lots of money and therefore must be ‎right/happy/successful etc. The fact is that a rich wanker is still a wanker (ref. Steve Williams).

It is obviously from the chip on his shoulder that Stoner cares what a lot of people ‎think. He is particularly bitter about his perceived lack of recognition is his ‎homeland.‎

Crasherfromwayback

28th December 2011, 09:59

That's a peculiarly NZ attitude – he has lots of money and therefore must be ‎right/happy/successful etc. The fact is that a rich wanker is still a wanker (ref. Steve Williams).

It is obviously from the chip on his shoulder that Stoner cares what a lot of people ‎think. He is particularly bitter about his perceived lack of recognition is his ‎homeland.‎

Funny eh. Some say money can't buy you happiness, but 9.5 mill a year would certainly help me smile more.

Oscar

28th December 2011, 10:05

Funny eh. Some say money can't buy you happiness, but 9.5 mill a year would certainly help me smile more.

If I had 9.5mil a year I'd last about a month before my liver exploded, but my corpse would have a huge grin.

I can guarantee you that Stoner’s priority in salary negotiations is to be paid more ‎than Vale and Gorgeous George. ‎

denill

28th December 2011, 10:12

That's a peculiarly NZ attitude – he has lots of money and therefore must be ‎right/happy/successful etc. The fact is that a rich wanker is still a wanker (ref. Steve Williams).‎

I actually said, "Stoner doesn't care what you think".

Oscar

28th December 2011, 10:14

I actually said, "Stoner doesn't care what you think".

You inferred that he doesn't care because he's got money.

denill

28th December 2011, 10:14

I can guarantee you that Stoner’s priority in salary negotiations is to be paid more ‎than Vale and Gorgeous George. ‎

And I can guarantee you that he's worth more than them - right now. :msn-wink:

Oscar

28th December 2011, 10:20

And I can guarantee you that he's worth more than them - right now. :msn-wink:

According to Sports Illustrated, Vale earned US$35m in 2009 (the same year he paid 35m Euro in back taxes).
Despite his problems in the last couple of years, Vale is a sponsors dream in Italy and Europe.

It'll be a long time before Casey earns that in class, if ever.

NZsarge

28th December 2011, 10:49

You'll probably find he can pretty much name his price next time round. I certainly wouldn't mind earning 9.5 mill though...dunno about you.

Yeah I must say 9.5 million would be nice in the bank account that's for sure, just though he might be on a bit more than that but particularly Weber...

Crasherfromwayback

28th December 2011, 11:00

Yeah I must say 9.5 million would be nice in the bank account that's for sure, just though he might be on a bit more than that but particularly Weber...

Be fair to say he will be worth more come contract time.

Ivan

28th December 2011, 12:53

trustme

28th December 2011, 15:17

how come any thread has to always come back to how Stoner is the best, Ok hes winning at the momment and clearly deserved the title this year and is a top rider but I dont think every moto GP thread has to jump into lets defend stoners right at the top, Let the thread be about 2012 and whos signing for who and weres the racing going to be rather than going on about Stoner sadly I get sick of hearing about him cause I read so much defense on here about him

Funny thing is every thread turns into a slagging off of Stoner & few like Crasher & me defend him, usually in answer to the haters.
I really don't get why so many people hate him, but like many ocker sports people he sure seems to rub some up the wrong way

So what is your positive contribution. :bleh::bleh::bleh::bleh::msn-wink:

Biggest hope for the season, Ducati gives Rossi a bike he can win on.

2nd biggest. A new alien comes along, sorry but Spies ain't it.

Ivan

28th December 2011, 15:38

i dont mind him hes not my favourite rider my favourite rider is far from the front but has 1 world title to his name, Nicky Hayden he doesnt moan about shit just gets on with the job

Crasherfromwayback

28th December 2011, 15:41

i dont mind him hes not my favourite rider my favourite rider is far from the front but has 1 world title to his name, Nicky Hayden he doesnt moan about shit just gets on with the job

Seems like a hell of a nice guy eh!! I'd also love to see him back at the pointy end. I'm hoping the Thous may help him get there, but maybe not the Ducati.

denill

28th December 2011, 15:47

Funny thing is every thread turns into a slagging off of Stoner & few like Crasher & me defend him, usually in answer to the haters.
I really don't get why so many people hate him, but like many ocker sports people he sure seems to rub some up the wrong way

So what is your positive contribution. :bleh::bleh::bleh::bleh::msn-wink:

Biggest hope for the season, Ducati gives Rossi a bike he can win on.

2nd biggest. A new alien comes along, sorry but Spies ain't it.

Yeah, world wide his haters exceed his admirers.

The only riders on the world stage I developed an intense dislike for were/are Biaggi and Foggarty (The rest have my total admiration) but I respected their ability.

And you contributions are right on.

Simo is going to be huge loss......................... He was the coming Messiah.

Ivan

28th December 2011, 15:48

Seems like a hell of a nice guy eh!! I'd also love to see him back at the pointy end. I'm hoping the Thous may help him get there, but maybe not the Ducati.

agreed I think hes capable weve all seen how he used to ride the 990 and was getting quicker right up until they built the bike around pedrosa and it was all down hill from there

Crasherfromwayback

28th December 2011, 15:54

agreed I think hes capable weve all seen how he used to ride the 990 and was getting quicker right up until they built the bike around pedrosa and it was all down hill from there

Yeah I reckon he'd be right there if they lost the electronics too! Especially on tracks with lots of lefts!!

trustme

28th December 2011, 16:51

Hayden is a journeyman, I'd love to be more positive , I really like him , he will never be an alien & yes a 1000 without electronics would be right up his alley

Simo was a loose canon. I remember Slight at Wanganui charging into the first corner way over his head & crashing . Simo seemed to do the same but by the time you reach motogp level you should have advanced past that ,IMHO

NZsarge

28th December 2011, 17:54

Biggest hope for the season, Ducati gives Rossi a bike he can win on.

2nd biggest. A new alien comes along, sorry but Spies ain't it.

Yeah I can see how you might come to that conclusion but i wouldn't right him off too soon..

NZsarge

28th December 2011, 17:59

Simo is going to be huge loss......................... He was the coming Messiah.

Yeah.... he was only going to be be the afore mentioned messiah if he could find a wee bit more speed (which was possible for sure) and if he became a lot more consistent than he had been in his career, was a big loss though no question.

slowpoke

29th December 2011, 09:31

Ivan

29th December 2011, 18:10

never actually payed attention to his eyebrows to notice that??

puddytat

29th December 2011, 21:17

2nd biggest. A new alien comes along, sorry but Spies ain't it.

I reckon it'll be Mark Marques.......in a years time.

denill

30th December 2011, 09:23

I reckon it'll be Mark Marques.......in a years time.

I'm right with you on that.

He will be followed closely by Paris Hilton's boy, Maverick Viñales.

yod

30th December 2011, 09:35

Hayden has gone and pwned himself, silly lad.....

http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newstitle=Ducatis-Hayden-breaks-left-shoulder-blade-in-flat-track-crash&newsid=6208

Aristocat

30th December 2011, 11:39

Hayden has gone and pwned himself, silly lad.....

http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newstitle=Ducatis-Hayden-breaks-left-shoulder-blade-in-flat-track-crash&newsid=6208

Fool. Oh well, it's not like he was a serious contender ...

Crasherfromwayback

30th December 2011, 11:46

Fool. Oh well, it's not like he was a serious contender ...

Can't rap yourself in cotton wool mate.

Stirts

30th December 2011, 11:53

Can't rap yourself in cotton wool mate.

You can so rap. Yo, Yo check it..
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/l/lamb/cotton+wool_20081356.html

yes I am bored :bleh:

Hayden has gone and pwned himself, silly lad.....

Did he have his pout on?
253999

roogazza

1st January 2012, 08:45

Not what Yamaha need for 2012.
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2011/12/30/yamaha_loses_petronas_motogp_sponsorship.html

actungbaby

1st January 2012, 09:10

[QUOTE=Reckless;1130179865]Came across a couple of articles speculating the future of the thous and the new structure thought I'd post up for comment.

Firstly we wont see Marquez in MotoGP next season
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Marquez+to+remain+in+moto2+for+2012

And some comment from Cycle world on next years setup and the CRT “Claiming-Rule Team,” thing that you all might find interesting??
http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/10/18/motogp-futures-racing/?zeta_mid=HFM2_603557&zeta_rid=80684095

Wadya reckon will the new rules work will we really see a class within a class or can some actually grab an RSV4 or 1000rr and actually compete???

Interesting :)

yes thanks for the posting but cant see it as if you that motivated to spend alot of money just to entry o suspect
let alone millions factorys spend, mind you turn up in van like some kiwis did in early 80s in smaller classes anyway
You probley go supebike racing , geee thats sad state know used to see all time on tv here was exciting too
having 2 seprate 4 stroke racing series killed that golden goose

I rekon a smaller team with like 3 cylinder 750 might do well on slower tracks but whould it ak ns 500 lees fuel lighter weight not sure if allow lighter weight in less cylinders really have mucked up the rules this year why make them heavy
dum aprat from that really looking forward to 2012 hope for closer racing this year

denill

1st January 2012, 09:19

Not what Yamaha need for 2012.

Yeah Gaz, just another of the many reasons of why CRT is being foisted on to us. Unwelcome but necessary. :( :(

yod

1st January 2012, 09:39

...... but whould it ak ns 500 lees fuel lighter weight not sure if allow lighter weight in less cylinders really have mucked up the rules this year why make them heavy dum aprat from that really looking forward to 2012 hope for closer racing this year

err.....what?

actungbaby

1st January 2012, 10:03

Be like going to a WSBK. :yawn:

yes but with no suzuki not looking good for the factory team numbers might make things worse

i think going be lean year esp stoner carries on like did this year and am honda fan .i think be only
the yamha boys with a shot at the tittle esp the spanish dud he got alot talent as long yamha start making effort with
the new bikes

hopefully suzuki come back in 2013 what crying shame just when get bike good with good rider they shot the fox.

surley been smarter for someone take over this team or least fund it if suzuki didnt want give away there work.

Like happned in f1 when brought the old honda team went well first season, i think need likes jermey burguss
to start there own teams take power away from honda and alike

actungbaby

1st January 2012, 10:09

yes good point why dont the factorys ie honda lease the old 800 bikes insteed them going in the crusher

opps mean the muesum

thye be better than some crt isint that screen by the way i think be few people breaking them over
there own heads next year..

yes factorys ie honda really cared about the sport whouldint they give the other head start say 2 laps

or casey stop have a sandwich then head out again maybe chould give little baby a nappy change

4th fastest here on an 800 :yes:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/1111080wsa3.htm

denill

4th January 2012, 06:51

Not what Yamaha need for 2012.
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2011/12/30/yamaha_loses_petronas_motogp_sponsorship.html

<a href=http://motomatters.com/news/2012/01/03/yamaha_gains_japanese_oil_sponsor_for_mo.html>Looks like they have ended up OK Gaz.</A> :niceone:

yod

6th January 2012, 09:59

Dovi's busted his clavicle

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/175825/1/andrea_dovizioso_breaks_collarbone.html

Stirts

6th January 2012, 10:24

Dovi's busted his clavicle

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/175825/1/andrea_dovizioso_breaks_collarbone.html

Fark at this rate, there will be two riders on the start grid at Sepang!

BMWST?

6th January 2012, 10:43

Odd really. The 'power advantage' didn't really help anyone else that rode it at the same time. I notice that this year it was still one of the fastest bikes through the speed traps. Odd that Rossi couldn't capitalise on the speed it has like Stoner did.

You'll also note three other guys had the same package as Stoner did this year. What did they do with it?

Funny that.

came third and fourth in the championship?Thats not bad,i think anyone would pick Jorge ahead of dani and Dovi

Crasherfromwayback

6th January 2012, 10:49

came third and fourth in the championship?

And won how many races?

BMWST?

6th January 2012, 11:15

And won how many races?
dani won two and they both finished ahead of Casey in a couple of races

Crasherfromwayback

6th January 2012, 11:19

dani won two and they both finished ahead of Casey in a couple of races

Awesome. Best of luck to them both this year too.

Reckless

10th January 2012, 11:04

just to break up this stoner vs the rest continual rant :brick:

Another new bike in the field with a young hot shot on it! Whoohoo!

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/petrucci%20debuts%20motogp%20with%20ioda%20racing

Just as a side thought? I wonder where the TV camera's will finally end up focusing?
Now that might be interesting :yes:

Crasherfromwayback

10th January 2012, 11:08

Reckless

10th January 2012, 11:38

Think a fair few of them will have trouble even qualifying mate.

To lazy to look it up Crasher whats the rules! Have to be within so many percent of the fastest time??
They might change that on the run of to many don't get in?

Jeepers be shit to spend all that time on a bike and not get to race!

Crasherfromwayback

10th January 2012, 11:47

To lazy to look it up Crasher whats the rules! Have to be within so many percent of the fastest time??
They might change that on the run of to many don't get in?

Jeepers be shit to spend all that time on a bike and not get to race!

Can't remember. Maybe 107%? Yeah I think they're allowing CRT bikes the Sunday warmup as an extra chance to qualify if they haven't already.

Reckless

10th January 2012, 11:58

Can't remember. Maybe 107%? Yeah I think they're allowing CRT bikes the Sunday warmup as an extra chance to qualify if they haven't already.

jeepers 107% ain't to much!

Haha they'll prob start making the fast boys carry more weight like in the horse racing!

Quick google and your right here

http://www.f1rules.com/nine-crt-entries-approved-for-motogp-2012/

That article says 9 CRT entries making 21 entries all up 12 being factory bikes ( plus maybe the young fella above??).

denill

10th January 2012, 12:34

Can't remember. Maybe 107%? Yeah I think they're allowing CRT bikes the Sunday warmup as an extra chance to qualify if they haven't already.

Read where Espelata is leaning over backwards and cutting them extra slack for qualifying.

BMWST?

10th January 2012, 21:20

Awesome. Best of luck to them both this year too.

love to see dovi push another yammie up there .I dont think he will be as fast as he was on the Honda but he can ussually develop a good race pace esp if its wet

pritch

13th January 2012, 10:19

You'da thunk they got enough travelling during the season?

Bradley Smith spent time on the ski slopes in Europe before heading home for a few days and then setting out to California .

Cal Crutchlow has already been in California for some time.

Eugene Laverty is also Stateside on holiday and both he and Crutchlow are experiencing some difficulty adjusting to the tipping culture in the USA.

In addition to trials riding, MX, and sessions at the gym, many of the riders take to the road on cycles of the human powered kind. Some of those group rides must be really rugged, involving as they do such competitive individuals.

Ben Spies has mentioned a “seriously huge training ride”; Austin to Dallas. (195 miles, I'm impressed.) He and Lorenzo are about to head for Indonesia, Malaysia, and India (among others?). All manufacturers including Yamaha regard that area as a very important market.

Triumph are also rumoured to be eyeing the asian market. Street Single, Terrier, or Tiger Cub anyone? In Asia that latter name would be a winner.

Jonathan Rea has been in Australia. Previously in warmer parts I think, last I read he was in Melbourne presumably working his way toward Phillip Island. Fabian Foret is apparently also in Melbourne.

Josh Brookes is likely riding (or at least cleaning) his recently acquired 1954 Sunbeam.

At the time of writing the Ducati Mechanics are building the new season's bikes. There were high hopes that Preziosi would enlighten the multitudes as to the basic design of the bike at the recent Wrooom junket. There had been speculation that the 90 deg engine might be tilted back in the fame, or that there may even be a new 74 deg V4. Preziosi spoke for 53 minutes without mentioning anything specific. He could be a politician.

Checa and Battaini (sp?) will be going to work on the new bike soonish.

Oh, and Chaz Davies won "Sportsman Of The Year" in Wales.

On a sadder note Mark Marquez is reportedly still bothered by the double vision that kept him out of the last race of the season. If the symptoms persist this could bring an end to a most promising career.

And now (courtesy of BIKE) something completely irrelevant:
BBC announcer commenting on Toseland's then latest crash after a whole series of unfortunate incidents,
“If he fell into a bucket of tits he would come up sucking his thumb.”

pritch

13th January 2012, 10:44

montsta56

13th January 2012, 10:48

Some of you may note the absence of reference to Casey Stoner in my previous post.
This is not because I lack respect for his ability, it is because he doesn't "do" social media.
Sometimes he gives the impression he may just not do "social". :whistle:

lol its because he's a real man an is probably out hunting an banging his cook. so is far to busy to be playing with his mobile like a teenage girl :bleh:

Crasherfromwayback

13th January 2012, 11:13

lol its because he's a real man an is probably out hunting an banging his cook. so is far to busy to be playing with his mobile like a teenage girl :bleh:

Can hardly blame the man either!

Mort

13th January 2012, 11:45

Confirmed 2012 MotoGP (http://www.crash.net/motogp) riders:

1. Casey Stoner - Repsol Honda
2. Dani Pedrosa - Repsol Honda
3. Jorge Lorenzo - Factory Yamaha
4. Ben Spies - Factory Yamaha
5. Valentino Rossi - Ducati Marlboro
6. Nicky Hayden - Ducati Marlboro
7. Cal Crutchlow - Tech 3 Yamaha
8. Andrea Dovizioso - Tech 3 Yamaha
9. Hector Barbera - Pramac Ducati
10. Karel Abraham - Cardion AB Ducati
11. Alvaro Bautista - San Carlo Honda Gresini
12. Stefan Bradl – LCR Honda
13. Colin Edwards - NGM Forward Racing (Suter-BMW CRT)
14. Randy de Puniet - Aspar (Aprilia CRT)
15. Aleix Espargaro - Aspar (Aprilia CRT)
16. James Ellison - PBM (Aprilia CRT)
17. Anthony West - Speed Master (Aprilia CRT)
18. Michele Pirro - Gresini Racing (FTR-Honda CRT)
19. Danilo Petrucci - Ioda Racing (Ioda-Aprilia CRT)
20. Ivan Silva - Avintia Racing (Inmotec/FTR?-Kawasaki CRT)
21. Yonny Hernandez - Avintia Racing (Inmotec/FTR?-Kawasaki CRT)

Crasherfromwayback

13th January 2012, 12:01

Confirmed 2012 MotoGP (http://www.crash.net/motogp) riders:

1. Casey Stoner - Repsol Honda
2. Dani Pedrosa - Repsol Honda
3. Jorge Lorenzo - Factory Yamaha
4. Ben Spies - Factory Yamaha
5. Valentino Rossi - Ducati Marlboro
6. Nicky Hayden - Ducati Marlboro
7. Cal Crutchlow - Tech 3 Yamaha
8. Andrea Dovizioso - Tech 3 Yamaha
9. Hector Barbera - Pramac Ducati
10. Karel Abraham - Cardion AB Ducati
11. Alvaro Bautista - San Carlo Honda Gresini
12. Stefan Bradl – LCR Honda

Riders shakled with heaps of shit that'll only get in the way...

13. Colin Edwards - NGM Forward Racing (Suter-BMW CRT)
14. Randy de Puniet - Aspar (Aprilia CRT)
15. Aleix Espargaro - Aspar (Aprilia CRT)
16. James Ellison - PBM (Aprilia CRT)
17. Anthony West - Speed Master (Aprilia CRT)
18. Michele Pirro - Gresini Racing (FTR-Honda CRT)
19. Danilo Petrucci - Ioda Racing (Ioda-Aprilia CRT)
20. Ivan Silva - Avintia Racing (Inmotec/FTR?-Kawasaki CRT)
21. Yonny Hernandez - Avintia Racing (Inmotec/FTR?-Kawasaki CRT)

CRT be fucked.

pritch

13th January 2012, 12:30

CRT be fucked.

Not perfect but better than just 12 starters. Or 10 if Hayden and Dovizioso don't get over their injuries in time.

An Australian journo was going to make a list of GP riders injured riding MotoX. He decided it would be easier to make a list of those who had not...

Crasherfromwayback

13th January 2012, 12:33

Not perfect but better than just 12 starters. Or 10 if Hayden and Dovizioso don't get over their injuries in time.

An Australian journo was going to make a list of GP riders injured riding MotoX. He decided it would be easier to make a list of those who had not...

I don't really agree that simply more riders = better if they're that far off the pace they're being lapped in no tim and basically getting in the way.

Badjelly

13th January 2012, 12:52

And now (courtesy of BIKE) something completely irrelevant:
BBC announcer commenting on Toseland's then latest crash after a whole series of unfortunate incidents,
“If he fell into a bucket of tits he would come up sucking his thumb.”

Mrs Jelly and I chuckled over that one when Jonathan first said it. It was a while back, probably in 2005, the year after Toseland's WSBK championship win on the Ducati.

puddytat

13th January 2012, 13:17

.

On a sadder note Mark Marquez is reportedly still bothered by the double vision that kept him out of the last race of the season. If the symptoms persist this could bring an end to a most promising career.

.”

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, please noooooooooo....In my book this is the stand out rider of the last two seasons .If he can race this season I reckon he'll walk away with the title a bit like Elias in 2010. Not since Rossi have I seen such an outstanding young talent.

pritch

13th January 2012, 13:37

if they're that far off the pace they're being lapped in no tim and basically getting in the way.

Dorna see it differently. They see it as a matter of survival.

With a rapidly diminishing grid, and now some GP venues in serious doubt due to the economic situation in Southern Europe: currently one of the Spanish GPs and the Portugese GP, absolutely everything is up for consideration. Thus Lorenzo riding around the new Buddh circuit in New Delhi in the last day or so.
In full race leathers - on a Yamaha R15!

One thing that I was wondering is how the CRT bikes will handle the Bridgestones. Apparently Bridgestone have listened to the rider's comments and are intending to produce tyres not quite so temperature sensitive. Capirossi has been employed by Bridgestone to advise, and to liaise with the riders. (Although I haven't seen his actual job description :-)

I read somewhere that Ezpeleta mentioned something about a change to the tyre rules for CRT bikes in 2013? Can't find the reference now.

Another item of interest later in the year will be contracts silly season. All of the factory riders come off contract this year.

The only constant is change?