Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[pritch]

Its what happened back then, and was deemed acceptable by most. Its not now, move on.

This.

Judging history by the standards of today just doesn't work. Then again, what are the standards "today"?
Daesh who kill, rape, and enslave at will?
The Kurds who kill Daesh?
The US Police who kill over a thousand disproportionately black people every year?
Sunni killing Shia?
Shia killing Sunni?
Hindu killing Sikh?
Muslims killing Hindu?
The Israelis killing defenceless people in Gaza?
Whoever is killing the people of Allepo?

Dresden? Interesting. Herr Katman has sympathy for the citizens of Dresden. Fair enough. No mention of the Blitz though? Talk about "your Aryan brothers"...*

* With acknowledgement to husaberg

[husaberg]

This.

Judging history by the standards of today just doesn't work. Then again, what are the standards "today"?


Dresden? Interesting. Herr Katman has sympathy for the citizens of Dresden. Fair enough. No mention of the Blitz though? Talk about "your Aryan brothers"...*

* With acknowledgement to husaberg

He also rather conveniently overlooked Rotterdam and the Warsaw blitz's

ps Very funny:killingme

[Katman]

Its what happened back then, and was deemed acceptable by most. Its not now, move on.

Do you give a fuck about what's happening in West Papua?

[mashman]

How unusual.

In fact behaviour like that has been the norm throughout human history. Much as your average fuckwit conspiracy theorist might like to paint his pet bogeyman as black as possible there's plenty of historical evidence that racial intolerance is just the way we're built.

Some are aware of that. Fewer attempt to moderate their behaviour. And fewer still attempt to moderate other's.

Hyperironic given that the vast majority of people didn't go to war. Norm indeed. And you talk about moderating someone else's behaviour :rolleyes:

[Woodman]

Do you give a fuck about what's happening in West Papua?

No I don't, but only because your reference to something happening in West Papua is the first I have heard of it.

[Ocean1]

Hyperironic given that the vast majority of people didn't go to war. Norm indeed. And you talk about moderating someone else's behaviour :rolleyes:

Well the dead ones didn't.

And before you pull me up on historical anthropological behaviour maybe you should read some books about it. 'Cause your ignorance on the topic is glaringly obvious.

Not more so than your ignorance on any other topic, y'unnerstand, just your typical incompetence.

[husaberg]

Well the dead ones didn't.

And before you pull me up on historical anthropological behaviour maybe you should read some books about it. 'Cause your ignorance on the topic is glaringly obvious.

Not more so than your ignorance on any other topic, y'unnerstand, just your typical incompetence.

Mashy clearly doesn't subscribe to the African proverb
That It takes a village to raise a child,
oh well Porirua clearly needs more village idiots.

[Katman]

No I don't, but only because your reference to something happening in West Papua is the first I have heard of it.

Good to see you have your finger on the pulse.

[Woodman]

Good to see you have your finger on the pulse.

What is the point? How does some guy in Nelson knowing about something going down in Papua change anything? Don't kid yourself into thinking that you knowing about something means more to them than me not knowing anything.

[sidecar bob]

What is the point? How does some guy in Nelson knowing about something going down in Papua change anything? Don't kid yourself into thinking that you knowing about something means more to them than me not knowing anything.

Comes back to slacktavisim again.

[nzspokes]

Do you give a fuck about what's happening in West Papua?

Do you even know what's going on in Mogadishu today?

[nzspokes]

What is the point? How does some guy in Nelson knowing about something going down in Papua change anything? Don't kid yourself into thinking that you knowing about something means more to them than me not knowing anything.

Well to be fair is Richmond really Nelson?:bleh:

[Woodman]

Well to be fair is Richmond really Nelson?:bleh:

Sadly I was trying to sound more exciting than Richmond, and more sadly chose Nelson.

[Katman]

What is the point? How does some guy in Nelson knowing about something going down in Papua change anything? Don't kid yourself into thinking that you knowing about something means more to them than me not knowing anything.

A whole lot more will come from discussing an issue rather than ignoring it.

[Woodman]

A whole lot more will come from discussing an issue rather than ignoring it.

Maybe, but a whole bunch of people randomly just talking round in circles is pointless. You know, somehow I just don't think that we are wired to have all this info available to us.

[Katman]

Maybe, but a whole bunch of people randomly just talking round in circles is pointless.

It's still better than ignoring it.

[Woodman]

It's still better than ignoring it.

Na not for me its not. Much more relaxing.

[Katman]

Na not for me its not. Much more relaxing.

Good for you.

Enjoy your life.

[Woodman]

Good for you.

Enjoy your life.

I will thanks. The way I see it is that the world is full of uptight unhappy people, so by me being happier by not knowing about others unhappiness makes the world just that much less miserable.

[Katman]

I will thanks. The way I see it is that the world is full of uptight unhappy people, so by me being happier by not knowing about others unhappiness makes the world just that much less miserable.

Well actually it just makes you less miserable.

But that's probably all that matters.

[nzspokes]

Do you even know what's going on in Mogadishu today?

Clearly Katman doesnt care about this one, not enough to call it a conspiracy.

[sidecar bob]

Well actually it just makes you less miserable.

But that's probably all that matters.

Because it's important to be miserable.:niceone:

[Woodman]

Because it's important to be miserable.:niceone:

Yes, and if not quite miserable enough then you need to seek out others misery to get you back on track.:weird:

[Voltaire]

A whole lot more will come from discussing an issue rather than ignoring it.

My Wife gives $25 a month to Save the Children ( ( most of it probably gets used up in admin), tell us about some of the wonderful things other than waffling on here that he does to improve the world ?:niceone:

[Maha]

My Wife gives $25 a month to Save the Children ( ( most of it probably gets used up in admin), tell us about some of the wonderful things other than waffling on here that he does to improve the world ?:niceone:

$25 per month?...pfft Katdashian gives at least that amount on daily basis to his local Wholesalers.

[bogan]

My Wife gives $25 a month to Save the Children ( ( most of it probably gets used up in admin), tell us about some of the wonderful things other than waffling on here that he does to improve the world ?:niceone:

90% goes to the program, according to one of those 'independent (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4438)' sources. But it's probably more 'productive' to just assume all charities are evil, give nothing, and whinge in misery for the rest of ones life...

[FatMax]

90% goes to the program, according to one of those 'independent (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4438)' sources. But it's probably more 'productive' to just assume all charities are evil, give nothing, and whinge in misery for the rest of ones life...

The catholic church for example

[Akzle]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/29/us-doctor-accused-of-making-childrens-vaccines-from-cat-saliva-and-vodka

[Ocean1]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/29/us-doctor-accused-of-making-childrens-vaccines-from-cat-saliva-and-vodka

From the same page... https://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2014/may/15/real-reason-british-public-chickenpox-vaccine-shingles

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/29/us-doctor-accused-of-making-childrens-vaccines-from-cat-saliva-and-vodka

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[FatMax]

Clearly Katman doesnt care about this one, not enough to call it a conspiracy.

What is going on in Mogadishu today? And dont go saying read this and research that, I am just interested.

So respectfully please tell us what is going on there

[Madness]

Black cunts be hustlin'

[FatMax]

Black cunts be hustlin'

Oh, so its all over a game of pool and a white woman

[nzspokes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tGwjwK9pIM

[Katman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tGwjwK9pIM

And yet, not one mention of gas chambers.

[nzspokes]

And yet, not one mention of gas chambers.
Did you watch it? You don't think that's bad enough? Agenda much?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Katman]

Did you watch it?

Do you think I'd claim that it doesn't make one mention of gas chambers if I hadn't?

[nzspokes]

Do you think I'd claim that it doesn't make one mention of gas chambers if I hadn't?
Absolutely.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Drew]

There are subjects that just don't get mentioned, because fuckwits like Katman make it just not worth it.

[TheDemonLord]

There are subjects that just don't get mentioned, because fuckwits like Katman make it just not worth it.

But then we wouldn't be able to talk about anything.....

[nzspokes]

There are subjects that just don't get mentioned, because fuckwits like Katman make it just not worth it.
Thats why there are no crash threads anymore.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Katman]

There are subjects that just don't get mentioned, because fuckwits like Katman make it just not worth it.

Maybe you're just not intelligent enough to make any meaningful contributions to the subjects Drew.

(Mind you, that's never stopped husaberk).

[Katman]

Thats why there are no crash threads anymore.

Don't go bringing up the faulty side-stand spring again. :killingme

[nzspokes]

Maybe you're just not intelligent enough to make any meaningful contributions to the subjects Drew.
And you do?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Katman]

And you do?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

Absolutely.

But not sent from your GT-I9300T using Tapatalk.

[TheDemonLord]

Absolutely.

But not sent from your GT-I9300T using Tapatalk.

According to Whom?

[Drew]

Maybe you're just not intelligent enough to make any meaningful contributions to the subjects Drew.

(Mind you, that's never stopped husaberk).

That's fucken rich!

[mashman]

Inside The World Of Microdosing With Magic Mushrooms & LSD (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/10/05/inside-the-world-of-micro-dosing-with-magic-mushrooms-lsd/)

[Woodman]

Absolutely.

But not sent from your GT-I9300T using Tapatalk.

Its not real hard looking intelligent when comparing yourself with yokel, but hey good on you.

[bogan]

There are subjects that just don't get mentioned, because fuckwits like Katman make it just not worth it.

The (absent) mods should just write a script, any thread of sufficient length in which KM has over 10% of the posts should be immediately consigned to PD...

[husaberg]

Its not real hard looking intelligent when comparing yourself with yokel, but hey good on you.

I hear, Yokel and Katman often compare their hardness, and furballs.

[Katman]

I hear, Yokel and Katman often compare their hardness, and furballs. (http://previews.123rf.com/images/vectorshots/vectorshots1307/vectorshots130700694/21098364-Kid-Dreaming-Cartoon-Vector-Stock-Vector.jpg)

Cool story bro.

[husaberg]

Cool story bro.

Yet entirely more believable than any of the 100 or so conspiracy theories you post per week.
There is a new vaccination against conspiracy theories. its called reality you should get yourself a large dose of it.

[FatMax]

Did you watch it? You don't think that's bad enough? Agenda much?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

Its right what so many people say about you

That is, you are a ______________________

Sent from my spunk encrusted duvet using Crap-I-Talk

[Katman]

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/dirty-vaccines-every-human-vaccine-tested-was-contaminated-metals-and-debris-new-

[TheDemonLord]

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/dirty-vaccines-every-human-vaccine-tested-was-contaminated-metals-and-debris-new-

And prey tell - what do you conclude from the Study?

[Katman]

And prey tell - what do you conclude from the Study?

That it's a study conducted by a couple of Italian scientists and published in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination.

[Drew]

I didn't read that anything on the list was actually at a toxic level.

But it is pretty average that they are inexplicably present at all.

Unsure how it pertains to the thread thus far.

[Woodman]

And prey tell - what do you conclude from the Study?

There is already a bias sensationalist conclusion at the end of the article.:brick:

[TheDemonLord]

That it's a study conducted by a couple of Italian scientists and published in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination.

So you read the first line then....

[Katman]

So you read the first line then....

How about you? What do you conclude from the study?

[Woodman]

How about you? What do you conclude from the study?

Maybe he will come to the same conclusion as the propaganda piece you are citing as cut and pasted below.

"The results of these investigations not only negate every assertion that vaccines are “safe and effective”, but they confirm that they are actually a clear and present danger"

Scaremongering at its finest.

[husaberg]

Some balance

Of course, many of the scary-sounding chemicals to which antivaccinationists point actually are in vaccines, but, as Paracelsus put it, the dose makes the poison, and the amount in vaccines is very much low enough not to pose a health threat. Also, formaldehyde is a product of normal metabolism present in the bloodstream of infants at a level much higher than what any vaccine contains


This is what MedCrave means by peer review. Look at its flowsheet, and you will see that it looks as though there is almost no way for your paper to be rejected, period. In fact, I laughed at the flowsheet, having never seen anything like it in any legitimate scientific journal. Not surprisingly, MedCrave is included on Beall’s List of Predatory Publishers, basically a list of “pay to publish” open access journals who charge significant sums to authors to publish their work but whose editorial oversite and peer review are—shall we say?—lacking.

Right now, that misinformation takes the form of what looks on the surface like a real scientific paper. That’s what’s happening right now with a paper by Antonietta Gatti and Stefano Montanari in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination entitled New Quality-Control Investigations on Vaccines: Micro- and Nanocontamination. It’s a paper I found through an article being circulated in antivaccine circles by the Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI), n group an group made up mainly of antivaccine cranks, in an article entitled Dirty Vaccines: New Study Reveals Prevalence of Contaminants.


O.M.G.! 1,821 particles! Holy crap! That’s horrible! The antivaxers are right that vaccines are hopelessly contaminated!
No. They. Are. Not.
Look at it this way. This is what was found in 20 μl (that’s microliters) of liquid. That’s 0.00002 liters. That means, in a theoretical liter of the vaccine, the most that one would find is 91,050,000 (9.105 x 107) particles! Holy hell! That’s a lot. We should be scared, shouldn’t we? well, no. Let’s go back to our homeopathy knowledge and look at Avogadro’s number. One mole of particles = 6.023 x 1023. So divide 91,050,000 by Avogadro’s number, and you’ll get the molarity of a solution of 91,050,000 particle in a liter, as a 1 M solution would contain 6.023 x 1023 particles. So what’s the concentration:
1.512 x 10-16 M. that’s 0.15 femtomolar (fM) (or 150 altomolar), an incredibly low concentration. And that’s the highest amount the investigators found. In reality, what they actually found is that vaccines are incredibly pure!

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/02/02/antivaccinationists-try-to-show-vaccines-are-dirty-but-really-show-that-they-are-amazingly-free-from-contamination/

[TheDemonLord]

How about you? What do you conclude from the study?

I got several things.

In short - Using new and more sensitive equipment - particles that could not be detected using previous methods are able to be detected.

This suggests that in time this method should be implemented to improve the purity of vaccinations

Next - the level of contamination was absolutely minute - suggesting that Manufacturers have taken all reasonable care and precautions

Then the paper posits that the presence of these Nano-particles may have some health concerns, but no causal link is confirmed - thus more study is needed on that.

[Woodman]

And prey tell - what do you conclude from the Study?


That it's a study conducted by a couple of Italian scientists and published in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination.

Hang on let me get this straight here Katman.

Your conclusion of the study is that it is a study.

:clap::clap::clap:

[husaberg]

I got several things.

In short - Using new and more sensitive equipment - particles that could not be detected using previous methods are able to be detected.

This suggests that in time this method should be implemented to improve the purity of vaccinations

Next - the level of contamination was absolutely minute - suggesting that Manufacturers have taken all reasonable care and precautions

Then the paper posits that the presence of these Nano-particles may have some health concerns, but no causal link is confirmed - thus more study is needed on that.

Did you see anything in the ""Paper"" Katman linked about how some of those ""contaminants" are actually listed ingrediants in a lot of vaccines
Ie Adjuvants.
I was a bit suspicious as i was aware of their use. So i googled what was in them.
Guess what i found
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html


Two adjuvants, aluminum and monophosphoryl lipid A, are used in some U.S. vaccines.
Aluminum gels or aluminum salts are vaccine ingredients that have been used in vaccines since the 1930s. Small amounts of aluminum are added to help the body build stronger immunity against the germ in the vaccine. Aluminum is one of the most common metals found in nature and is present in air, food, and water. The amount of aluminum present in vaccines is low and is regulated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Monophosphoryl lipid A has been used since 2009 in one vaccine in the US, Cervarix. This immune-boosting substance was isolated from the surface of bacteria. It has been tested for safety in tens of thousands of people and found to be safe.

Adjuvants have been used safely in vaccines for many decades.
Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years. Aluminum salts were initially used in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s with diphtheria and tetanus vaccines after it was found that this addition strengthened the body’s immune response to these vaccines.
Monophosphoryl lipid A is a type of adjuvant that was developed more recently, as experts continue to increase their knowledge of how to stimulate certain specific elements of the body’s immune response to vaccines.

[Oakie]

Thanks for the reminder. I need to crack on and organise our staff 'flu vacs for this year so we get them done by the mid April. I knew this thread was useful for something.

[Katman]

Did you see anything in the ""Paper"" Katman linked about how some of those ""contaminants" are actually listed ingrediants in a lot of vaccines
Ie Adjuvants.
I was a bit suspicious as i was aware of their use. So i googled what was in them.
Guess what i found
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html

The study quite clearly states that Aluminium is a common ingredient in vaccines.

The main point of the study was identifying 'contaminants' that are not listed as ingredients.

[Ocean1]

Some balance

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/02/02/antivaccinationists-try-to-show-vaccines-are-dirty-but-really-show-that-they-are-amazingly-free-from-contamination/

Be fair, dude, it wasn't easy to find, it was buried way down at item #6 on the first google page.

Along with the quantity's conversion to plain english: 0.0000000000000000000719%

Right beside the words: "Biologically irrelevant".

[Ocean1]

The study quite clearly states that Aluminium is a common ingredient in vaccines.

The main point of the study was identifying 'contaminants' that are not listed as ingredients.

Know what else contains aluminium?

The receptacles the ESM samples are stored in.

Prior to being exposed to close to 100% vacuum. :laugh:

[Akzle]

Right beside the words: "Biologically irrelevant".

you and husabitch could both make that your signature.

though for vastly different reasons, you'll be pleased to hear.

[Drew]

The study quite clearly states that Aluminium is a common ingredient in vaccines.

The main point of the study was identifying 'contaminants' that are not listed as ingredients.
It's a paper. Not a study.

Essentially, some dudes decided to check some shit out with their new toy. What they found was a surprise.

[husaberg]

Be fair, dude, it wasn't easy to find, it was buried way down at item #6 on the first google page.

Along with the quantity's conversion to plain english: 0.0000000000000000000719%

Right beside the words: "Biologically irrelevant".

Yeah odd thats not the title "Biologically irrelevant"
I wonder what would happen if they used the same methodology on all sorts of other things, like apple,s peas and a sandwich.

[Katman]

Yeah odd thats not the title "Biologically irrelevant"
I wonder what would happen if they used the same methodology on all sorts of other things, like apple,s peas and a sandwich.

Do they inject apples, peas and sandwiches into the blood stream of new born children?

[husaberg]

Do they inject apples, peas and sandwiches into the blood stream of new born children?

Clearly not as a general rule no, but they also don't examine their contents with an electron microscope in the vain hope they can find 2/3's of buggar all, in some vain hope that they will excite paranoid conspiracy theorists such as yourself and then write what to the casual observer appears to be scary sounding articles stating they contain unlisted contaminants either.

[Ocean1]

Do they inject apples, peas and sandwiches into the blood stream of new born children?

Dude, get a grip, they breath more aluminium than that every day.

[husaberg]

Dude, get a grip, they breath more aluminium than that every day.

Ps i hope you have starting rollers and a big ol American pick up to drive them.
Take them to the beach and it will be Silica dust they will be breathing in NZ as well.
I shouldn't be an issue for Katman of course, as i understand it, he actually has no kids.
I wonder, does he actually vaccinate his pets?

[Katman]

Dude, get a grip, they breath more aluminium than that every day.

I don't quite know why you keep going on about aluminium (even though aluminium toxicity is well known about) since aluminium is already a well known ingredient of many vaccines.

Like I've already said, the perplexing issue of the study (yes Drew - the study) is the presence of unlisted 'contaminants' in the vaccines.

[Ocean1]

I don't quite know why you keep going on about aluminium (even though aluminium toxicity is well known about) since aluminium is already a well known ingredient of many vaccines.

Like I've already said, the perplexing issue of the study (yes Drew - the study) is the presence of unlisted 'contaminants' in the vaccines.

Because the "study" showed aluminium compounds as one of the "contaminants".

And it's only an "issue" if you're fuckwit enough to fail to understand that absolutely nothing is 100% "pure". In this case the "study" found that the vaccine with the highest level of "contaminants" was short by 0.0000000000000000000719%. Which is fucking amazingly pure.

But you know all that, because you read the appraisal husaberg posted, dincha? The one you'd have found yourself with half a minute's check of your original piece of bullshit. So why continue to pretend the data represents any sort of "issue" at all? Why pretend that it's anything other than a transparent piece of misdirection from a bunch of religious, anti-science fuckwits?

[Katman]

Because the "study" showed aluminium compounds as one of the "contaminants".

No it doesn't.

It lists aluminium as one of the 'elements' contained within the vaccine and also clearly states that this is to be expected as aluminium is commonly used in vaccines.

You should learn to read.

[Katman]

So why continue to pretend the data represents any sort of "issue" at all? Why pretend that it's anything other than a transparent piece of misdirection from a bunch of religious, anti-science fuckwits?

Do you have anything to provide as support for your claim that Dr. Antonietta Gatti and Stefano Montanari are 'religious, anti-science fuckwits'?

[Katman]

But you know all that, because you read the appraisal husaberg posted, dincha? The one you'd have found yourself with half a minute's check of your original piece of bullshit.

And in case you're wondering, I was well aware of the 'appraisal' that berkboy posted as it was linked in the comments section of the article that I read on FB.

But before you go putting one person's opinion forward as irrefutable proof that a scientific study can be completely disregarded, you should probably look a little deeper into who's opinion it is that you're presenting.

Or is a blog written by 'Orac' good enough for you?

[TheDemonLord]

And in case you're wondering, I was well aware of the 'appraisal' that berkboy posted as it was linked in the comments section of the article that I read on FB.

But before you go putting one person's opinion forward as irrefutable proof that a scientific study can be completely disregarded, you should probably look a little deeper into who's opinion it is that you're presenting.

Or is a blog written by 'Orac' good enough for you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gorski

[Katman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gorski

I'm well aware of who 'Orac' is.

You should look a little deeper into who David Gorski is.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm well aware of who 'Orac' is.

You should look a little deeper into who David Gorski is.

And so (according to you) - Who is David Gorski?

[Katman]

And so (according to you) - Who is David Gorski?

You could always look a little deeper than Wikipedia.

[TheDemonLord]

You could always look a little deeper than Wikipedia.

That wasn't the question - the question was who is he according to you?

[Katman]

That wasn't the question - the question was who is he according to you?

A pharmaceutical industry shill.

[TheDemonLord]

A pharmaceutical industry shill.

Except - you know - when he advocates for more openness when it comes to Clinical Trials...

[Woodman]

Do you have anything to provide as support for your claim that Dr. Antonietta Gatti and Stefano Montanari are 'religious, anti-science fuckwits'?

Was their conclusion about vaccinations the same as the author of the blog you posted?
Have you read the study in its entirety or just the blog?

[Katman]

Was their conclusion about vaccinations the same as the author of the blog you posted?
Have you read the study in its entirety or just the blog?

Yes, I read the study.

Did you?

[Woodman]

Because the "study" showed aluminium compounds as one of the "contaminants".

And it's only an "issue" if you're fuckwit enough to fail to understand that absolutely nothing is 100% "pure". In this case the "study" found that the vaccine with the highest level of "contaminants" was short by 0.0000000000000000000719%. Which is fucking amazingly pure.

But you know all that, because you read the appraisal husaberg posted, dincha? The one you'd have found yourself with half a minute's check of your original piece of bullshit. So why continue to pretend the data represents any sort of "issue" at all? Why pretend that it's anything other than a transparent piece of misdirection from a bunch of religious, anti-science fuckwits?


They can't get that diseases like autism are a thing, so they conclude with blinkers firmly attached that it must be from vaccinations.

[Woodman]

Yes, I read the study.

Did you?

What did the study conclude about vaccinations?

No I didn't read the study, but that's not relevant to my question, so please stop diverting.

[Katman]

No I didn't read the study, but that's not relevant to my question, so please stop diverting.

Go read it then and make up your own mind.

[Woodman]

Go read it then and make up your own mind.

You started this so why don't you just simply tell me as you obviously read the study*

* I don't actually think you did read it.

[TheDemonLord]

* I don't actually think you have the capacity to understand it even if you did read it.

Fixed for yah.

[Woodman]

The actual studies conclusion.

Conclusion
The analyses carried out show that in all samples checked
vaccines contain non biocompatible and bio-persistent foreign
bodies which are not declared by the Producers, against which
the body reacts in any case. This new investigation represents a
new quality control that can be adopted to assess the safety of a
vaccine. Our hypothesis is that this contamination is unintentional,
since it is probably due to polluted components or procedures of
industrial processes (e.g. filtrations) used to produce vaccines, not
investigated and not detected by the Producers. If our hypothesis
is actually the case, a close inspection of the working places and
the full knowledge of the whole procedure of vaccine preparation
would probably allow to eliminate the problem.

Katmans blogs conclusion of the study.
This research doesn’t just show that vaccines are full of crud that top scientists can’t even define. It makes a mockery of health oversight agencies like the FDA and CDC and their lies that vaccines undergo adequate safety checks and risk assessment.

It doesn’t merely reveal that the long-term consequences of vaccinating cannot even be assessed. If anti-cancer vaccines like Gardasil and Cevarix contain cancer-causing aggregates of toxic metals, their use as a weapon against a cancer a girl has zero chance of getting before age 21 is not just useless. It is egregious abuse.

Now, every vaccine’s claims to saving lives must be weighed against its risks of causing cancer, neurodevelopmental disease, autoimmune disease and every other immune-mediated “mystery” disorder now epidemic and soaring.

The results of these investigations not only negate every assertion that vaccines are “safe and effective”, but they confirm that they are actually a clear and present danger.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spot the bias

[Katman]

Katmans blogs conclusion of the study.


I'm not overly interested in what the blog says.

It's the study itself that I believe is interesting.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm not overly interested in what the blog says.

It's the study itself that I believe is interesting.

And yet, you linked the blog and not the study.....

[Katman]

And yet, you linked the blog and not the study.....

And yet, the blog gave a link to the study.

[TheDemonLord]

And yet, the blog gave a link to the study.

Which you could have easily posted - but you didn't.

That, Speaks volumes.

[Katman]

That, Speaks volumes.

I think you're letting your autism get the better of you again.

[TheDemonLord]

I think you're letting your autism get the better of you again.

Uh Huh.

You really need to get new material.

[Woodman]

I'm not overly interested in what the blog says.

It's the study itself that I believe is interesting.

You say that now.

[Ocean1]

And in case you're wondering, I was well aware of the 'appraisal' that berkboy posted as it was linked in the comments section of the article that I read on FB.

But before you go putting one person's opinion forward as irrefutable proof that a scientific study can be completely disregarded, you should probably look a little deeper into who's opinion it is that you're presenting.

Or is a blog written by 'Orac' good enough for you?

No, what's good enough for me is a quick perusal of the data in both.

The "study" was patently misleading wrt the quantities involved. Even having not read the appraisal its lack of detail in that regard made it reek of deliberate misdirection.

The appraisal simply supplied the missing data, thereby confirming that the "study" was a stinking pile of bullshit. Whether it stank as a result of it's original author's bias or subsequent editing is completely irrelevant, I don't need to know who's bullshit it is in order to identify it as such, that's your party trick.

[husaberg]

I'm well aware of who 'Orac' is.

You should look a little deeper into who David Gorski is.


A pharmaceutical industry shill.

Is he more qualified than you to assess the potential dangers of vaccines?
You know, seeing as he is a MD PHD and a Professor.

[Katman]

You know, seeing as he is a MD PHD and a Professor.

Is he a toxicology expert?

[Drew]

Is he a toxicology expert?
Are you?

Then fuck up.

[Katman]

Are you?

No Drew, I'm not.

But then again, I'm not the one trying to discredit the findings of two toxicology experts, am I?

:weird:

[TheDemonLord]

No Drew, I'm not.

But then again, I'm not the one trying to discredit the findings of two toxicology experts, am I?

:weird:

To be fair, most of the discrediting was due to the Methodology....

[Katman]

To be fair, most of the discrediting was due to the Methodology....

Face it dude, it's akin to you trying to tell me how to put a rear wheel back in a bike and me trying to tell you how to be a computer nerd.

[Woodman]

Face it dude, it's akin to you trying to tell me how to put a rear wheel back in a bike and me trying to tell you how to be a computer nerd.

Face it, you posted up a link from an obvious misinformation website and when challenged on that you have spent the last few pages trying to dig your way out of the hole you created.

[TheDemonLord]

Face it dude, it's akin to you trying to tell me how to put a rear wheel back in a bike and me trying to tell you how to be a computer nerd.

The great thing about that Analogy is - that assume you told me how to do something related to IT that was correct, it would still be correct...

Which kinda invalidates your entire argument...

And then we are left with why you consistently choose to post rehashed propaganda, as opposed to the actual study.

[Katman]

Face it, you posted up a link from an obvious misinformation website and when challenged on that you have spent the last few pages trying to dig your way out of the hole you created.

Face it, the mere fact that you don't agree with what the article says, doesn't make it "an obvious misinformation website".

[TheDemonLord]

Face it, the mere fact that you don't agree with what the article says, doesn't make it "an obvious misinformation website".

Is that like when you don't agree with someone, they are obviously a Big Pharma Shill? Or a Zionist/Israeli Shill? Or a Government Shill?

[Woodman]

Face it, the mere fact that you don't agree with what the article says, doesn't make it "an obvious misinformation website".

Bollocks. Who said I don't agree with it? I haven't expressed my opinion at all. My only interest is the source of the information and in this case the source you quoted is very biased, probarbly written by someone who gets their income from gullible folk like yourself.

[Katman]

Bollocks. Who said I don't agree with it? I haven't expressed my opinion at all. My only interest is the source of the information and in this case the source you quoted is very biased, probarbly written by someone who gets their income from gullible folk like yourself.

Like I said, the article was simply someone's opinion on the study.

If you disagree with their opinion, that's entirely your right.

[bogan]

Like I said, the article was simply someone's opinion on the study.

If you disagree with their opinion, that's entirely your right.

Just as it is his right to point out the errors, and attempt to enlighten the foolish people who so often get taken in by such fake news, alternate facts, and echo chambers.

Arguably, the only ones taking liberties with rights, are those attempting to perpetuate falsehoods. In this case the shit has flown downhill from those who wrote the study, then those who wrote the article, then yourself who got taken in by it. Is it additive on the way down do you think?

[Katman]

.... fake news.....

Yep, there's that echo chamber again.

[rc_36_rider]

Watch Vaxxed............................................ ..............

[Katman]

Watch Vaxxed............................................ ..............

Asking bogan to watch anything that doesn't fit his agenda is like pushing shit uphill.

[Woodman]

Watch Vaxxed............................................ ..............

Asking Katman to watch anything that doesn't suit his agenda is like pushing shit uphill.

[bogan]

Asking bogan to watch anything that doesn't fit his agenda is like pushing shit uphill.

Open minded scientific analysis is my actual 'agenda', so of course asking me to watch such factless, baseless, unscientific drivel is a waste of time. Such a suggestion lies in opposition to rational discourse, so of course you sit at the bottom of the hill under a mountain of shit and think everything is oh so difficult...

[Katman]

Open minded scientific analysis is my actual 'agenda', so of course asking me to watch such factless, baseless, unscientific drivel is a waste of time.

Remember that time you posted the video about 'Can we trust science?' for me to watch and it became apparent that you hadn't even watched it yourself because the gist of the video was that science isn't as trustworthy as many would like to believe?

Oh how I loled at your sheer stupidity.

:killingme

[Woodman]

Remember that time you posted the video about 'Can we trust science?' for me to watch and it became apparent that you hadn't even watched it yourself because the gist of the video was that science isn't as trustworthy as many would like to believe?

Oh how I loled at your sheer stupidity.

:killingme

There was probarbly a link of some sort to the actual information that he wanted you to watch.

[Katman]

There was probarbly a link of some sort to the actual information that he wanted you to watch.

If there was I would have found it.

I'm clever like that.

[bogan]

Remember that time you posted the video about 'Can we trust science?' for me to watch and it became apparent that you hadn't even watched it yourself because the gist of the video was that science isn't as trustworthy as many would like to believe?

Oh how I loled at your sheer stupidity.

:killingme

Back to alt facts are you?

Cos that's a thing that never happened. Just like the time you flew off the handle about me editing a post, or the mods being power mad, or pretty much any day of the week ending in 'y'; stop just making shit up to fit your delusion KM, it's really sad.

[Katman]

Back to alt facts are you?

Cos that's a thing that never happened. Just like the time you flew off the handle about me editing a post, or the mods being power mad, or pretty much any day of the week ending in 'y'; stop just making shit up to fit your delusion KM, it's really sad.

Oh it happened all right.

Remember - you asked me to paraphrase it because you didn't expect I'd watch it.

I can understand your embarrassment in having your monumental stupidity exposed though.

[bogan]

Oh it happened all right.

Remember - you asked me to paraphrase it because you didn't expect I'd watch it.

I can understand your embarrassment in having your monumental stupity exposed though.

Can't say that I remember that at all, but heres the good thing about things that have actually happened; it's easy to show that they happened...

PS, correctly spelling the word stupidity when insulting someone's intellect is a prerequisite to being taken seriously :killingme

[Ocean1]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/mmr-fraud-doctor-andrew-wakefield-returns-to-britain-for-vaxxed-films-secret-launch/news-story/595b6a50d2d18116afbf16862d4fdd99

[Katman]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/mmr-fraud-doctor-andrew-wakefield-returns-to-britain-for-vaxxed-films-secret-launch/news-story/595b6a50d2d18116afbf16862d4fdd99

Not all of us subscribe to MSM.

Your link leads nowhere other than to a subscription page.

[nzspokes]

PS, correctly spelling the word stupidity when insulting someone's intellect is a prerequisite to being taken seriously :killingme

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh:

[husaberg]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh:

Carefull he might get upset, he clearly has a very fragile ego.

[Ocean1]

Not all of us subscribe to MSM.

Your link leads nowhere other than to a subscription page.

I had no idea MSN was Australian!

Tricky bastards, obviously. Try this one: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mmr-andrew-wakefield-fraud-doctor-anti-vaccine-film-return-uk-secret-screening-vaxxers-vaccinations-a7583021.html

[rc_36_rider]

I had no idea MSN was Australian!

Tricky bastards, obviously. Try this one: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mmr-andrew-wakefield-fraud-doctor-anti-vaccine-film-return-uk-secret-screening-vaxxers-vaccinations-a7583021.html

Like anything involving billions of dollars there is a multi level highly funded campaign to keep the cash flowing in and prevent any kind of slander or negative publicity. This article and many other like it have no links to any evidence except some that have links to studies done by the people selling vaccines and they are obviously never going to find anything negative.

sadly the medical industry is one based off money so the aim of the game is to make as much of it as possible not make people as healthy as possible, that is the way governments and corporations work.

The flu shot should be a perfect example, there are hundreds or thousands of strains of influenza so it is impossible to immunize against it. Yet because it makes money they tell you it can be done.

[Ocean1]

This article and many other like it have no links to any evidence except some that have links to studies done by the people selling vaccines and they are obviously never going to find anything negative..

They probably thought the evidence of millions of saved lives was so obvious as to not require any links.

Seems they underestimated the capacity of fuckwits to overlook shit that doesn't agree with their prejudices.

[TheDemonLord]

Like anything involving billions of dollars there is a multi level highly funded campaign to keep the cash flowing in and prevent any kind of slander or negative publicity. This article and many other like it have no links to any evidence except some that have links to studies done by the people selling vaccines and they are obviously never going to find anything negative.

sadly the medical industry is one based off money so the aim of the game is to make as much of it as possible not make people as healthy as possible, that is the way governments and corporations work.

The flu shot should be a perfect example, there are hundreds or thousands of strains of influenza so it is impossible to immunize against it. Yet because it makes money they tell you it can be done.

And how many people do you personally know who have died of:

Yellow Fever
Cholera
Typhoid Fever
Small Pox
Whooping Cough
Tuberculosis

[Katman]

And how many people do you personally know who have died of:

Yellow Fever
Cholera
Typhoid Fever
Small Pox
Whooping Cough
Tuberculosis

I don't think anyone is suggesting that vaccines haven't done a great deal of good over the years.

What people are questioning is whether the vast array of vaccines available today are as safe as they purport to be - and whether they are in fact all necessary.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that vaccines haven't done a great deal of good over the years.

What people are questioning is whether the vast array of vaccines available today are as safe as they purport to be - and whether they are in fact all necessary.

The question presumes that there is a point in time that they stopped doing a Great deal of good.

Can you provide a Date or a Year and can you provide evidence to show that there was a change?

[Voltaire]

I see Croc checks in to see how his post is progressing.....June 2016 :lol:

Must have found more interesting reading, like New Idea or Womans Weakly

[Katman]

The question presumes that there is a point in time that they stopped doing a Great deal of good.

Can you provide a Date or a Year and can you provide evidence to show that there was a change?

Not a date or a year but it was probably around the time that the pursuit of profit infiltrated the medical field.

[TheDemonLord]

Not a date or a year but it was probably around the time that the pursuit of profit infiltrated the medical field.

And exactly WHEN is that?

Because even in hunter Gather tribes - the Medicine Man had the best hut after the Chief of the tribe....

[Ocean1]

Not a date or a year but it was probably around the time that the pursuit of profit infiltrated the medical field.

Vaccines were originally made by amateurs?!

I had no idea!

[Katman]

And exactly WHEN is that?

Dude, stop being so fucking irrational.

There has been a gradual move towards focusing on profit rather than the actual physical well-being of society for some time now.

There are a great many in the science and medical fields who believe similarly.

[TheDemonLord]

Dude, stop being so fucking irrational.

There has been a gradual move towards focusing on profit rather than the actual physical well-being of society for some time now.

There are a great many in the science and medical fields who believe similarly.

Even a Gradual change eventually crosses a threshold - For example - acceleration is a gradual change (or a rapid change...) yet - I can tell you when I hit 50 kph and when I hit 100.

All I'm asking for you to do is demonstrate where that Threshold is and why it is there.

But let's not beat around the bush - you can't. I know you can't. You know you can't. Which is where your house of cards falls down.

As for the great many you speak of - most (if taken in proper context) would say that there are areas where there could be improvement - some of those are valid - however it doesn't prove profit over well being, nor does it prove that vaccines are redundant today.

In fact - if anything, the recent outbreaks of Measles in first world countries (thanks largely to Mr Wakefield and his sycophantic delusional followers) shows a perfect real world scenario conclusively proving regular ongoing vaccinations are required for certain viral strains.

[Katman]

As for the great many you speak of - most (if taken in proper context) would say that there are areas where there could be improvement - some of those are valid - however it doesn't prove profit over well being.

It certainly does when a pharmaceutical company knowingly dumps contaminated products in other markets around the world because they've been stopped from selling it in their own country.

[TheDemonLord]

It certainly does when a pharmaceutical company knowingly dumps contaminated products in other markets around the world because they've been stopped from selling it in their own country.

The proves a Company engaged in unethical behavior in one instance.

Still doesn't prove that Vaccines are no longer required.

[Katman]

Still doesn't prove that Vaccines are no longer required.

And I've never said that either.

What I have said is that if there are safety concerns surrounding certain vaccines then those issues need to be strenuously investigated.

I believe that the pursuit of profit is getting in the way of that investigation.

[Katman]

The proves a Company engaged in unethical behavior in one instance.

Do you think that raising the price of a drug overnight from $13.50 to $750 is ethical?

[TheDemonLord]

And I've never said that either.

What I have said is that if there are safety concerns surrounding certain vaccines then those issues need to be strenuously investigated.

I believe that the pursuit of profit is getting in the way of that investigation.

Your exact wording was:


and whether they are in fact all necessary.

The implication being that some are no longer required.

Suppose I be generous in your 'safety concerns' - what do you say about the thousands (and I do mean thousands) of Dead Japanese School children from Measles?

What about that Safety Concern?

Of course - if it had been that a company had cut a corner to save a Dollar - you would be jumping up and down, frothing at the mouth, loudly proclaiming your righteous vindication....

[TheDemonLord]

Do you think that raising the price of a drug overnight from $13.50 to $750 is ethical?

I'd say it's price gauging - however if the change was as he claimed (to fund research into new drugs) - then it may not be as unethical as it first seems.

[Banditbandit]

And how many people do you personally know who have died of:

Yellow Fever
Cholera
Typhoid Fever
Small Pox
Whooping Cough
Tuberculosis

The diseases you ask about have largely been eradicated by vaccination - but not all. As well, we now know moere and can largely cure these diseases - but not always.

here's stuff you can easily find on the net

Yellow Fever
Only required if travelling overseas. There are about 200,000 cases each year worldwide.

Cholera
Not endemic in New Zealand. Cases come from overseas and may spread it while contagious but not showing symptoms.

Typhoid Fever
It’s a Salmonella virus. There are about 40 known cases each year in New Zealand

Smallpox
Not great. Apparently only exists in laboratories now-a-days. Eradicated (supposedly) by mass vaccination. But if it ever comes back ..

Whooping Cough
Most recent outbreak in New Zealand was 2011. Three young children died during this outbreak. This is one disease that can be cured if caught. Outbreaks occur every three to five years. If you have ever had a small baby with this it will break your heart.

Tuberculosis
In 2014 there were 302 reported cases. It’s been about that each year for quite a while.
Possums carry this disease and can spread it to cows – beef and dairy. Some parts of the country have a non-removal orders on cows as they have TB. This is one that is a lot more curable than it once was – but prevention is still the best measure.

[Katman]

The implication being that some are no longer required.

Not quite.

The implication being, are people getting vaccinations that are relevant to their situation or are they being encouraged to have vaccinations that they could happily do without.

[TheDemonLord]

Not quite.

The implication being, are people getting vaccinations that are relevant to their situation or are they being encouraged to have vaccinations that they could happily do without.

Just like you could happily ride a motorcycle without Helmet and leathers....

It comes down to risk - what is the risk of not getting vaccinated vs the risk of getting vaccinated.

Just like what is the risk of riding ATGATT vs Riding like a Squid.

I've got pretty solid evidence that shows not vaccinating for things such as Measles has a very large risk to the child population - what have you got? Speculation and debunked frauds....

[TheDemonLord]

The diseases you ask about have largely been eradicated by vaccination - but not all. As well, we now know moere and can largely cure these diseases - but not always.

here's stuff you can easily find on the net

Yellow Fever
Only required if travelling overseas. There are about 200,000 cases each year worldwide.

Cholera
Not endemic in New Zealand. Cases come from overseas and may spread it while contagious but not showing symptoms.

Typhoid Fever
It’s a Salmonella virus. There are about 40 known cases each year in New Zealand

Smallpox
Not great. Apparently only exists in laboratories now-a-days. Eradicated (supposedly) by mass vaccination. But if it ever comes back ..

Whooping Cough
Most recent outbreak in New Zealand was 2011. Three young children died during this outbreak. This is one disease that can be cured if caught. Outbreaks occur every three to five years. If you have ever had a small baby with this it will break your heart.

Tuberculosis
In 2014 there were 302 reported cases. It’s been about that each year for quite a while.
Possums carry this disease and can spread it to cows – beef and dairy. Some parts of the country have a non-removal orders on cows as they have TB. This is one that is a lot more curable than it once was – but prevention is still the best measure.

Precisely my point - especially when compared to their historic rates in the western world.

[Banditbandit]

Not quite.

The implication being, are people getting vaccinations that are relevant to their situation or are they being encouraged to have vaccinations that they could happily do without.

We do not truly know how long a disease may stay in the environment after it has been largely eradicated in human beings. Unlike bacteria, which are small single-celled organism, viruses are strands of DNA which have been proven to survive in space vacuum.

Human populations gain immunity at something over 90% of the population vaccinated. The dropping rates of vaccination are A worry as they may allow some of these diseases that we thought were historic can re-emerge. Polio is a good example ..

http://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/conditions-and-treatments/diseases-and-illnesses/polio-poliomyelitis

I'm sure you were vaccinated against polio - I wonder just how many of our kids born now will be and what will happen if it resurfaces in New Zealand? It will be too late once we start getting new cases here.

[Katman]

We do not truly know how long a disease may stay in the environment after it has been largely eradicated in human beings. Unlike bacteria, which are small single-celled organism, viruses are strands of DNA which have been proven to survive in space vacuum.

Human populations gain immunity at something over 90% of the population vaccinated. The dropping rates of vaccination are A worry as they may allow some of these diseases that we thought were historic can re-emerge. Polio is a good example ..

http://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/conditions-and-treatments/diseases-and-illnesses/polio-poliomyelitis

I'm sure you were vaccinated against polio - I wonder just how many of our kids born now will be and what will happen if it resurfaces in New Zealand? It will be too late once we start getting new cases here.

And there are plenty in the medical profession who consider the push for HPV vaccinations to be a scam.

[Banditbandit]

And there are plenty in the medical profession who consider the push for HPV vaccinations to be a scam.

Only time will tell if they are right or not - and the consequences of them being wrong could be disastrous .. we have no cure for the paralysis it can cause ..

[TheDemonLord]

Only time will tell if they are right or not - and the consequences of them being wrong could be disastrous .. we have no cure for the paralysis it can cause ..

And thus we are back to this:

"I've got pretty solid evidence that shows not vaccinating for things such as Measles has a very large risk to the child population - what have you got? Speculation and debunked frauds.... "

Even assuming it is a Scam - this could be a variant of Pascals wager: If your right, we loose nothing, if I'm right, we loose massively.

[Katman]

Even assuming it is a Scam - this could be a variant of Pascals wager: If your right, we loose nothing, if I'm right, we loose massively.

Really?

You think that the people who have had massively negative reactions to the vaccine have lost nothing?

[TheDemonLord]

Really?

You think that the people who have had massively negative reactions to the vaccine have lost nothing?

The individuals may have - but when put in perspective of number of people vaccined vs number of people with serious lifelong complications definitively proved to be caused by the vaccine - it is smaller than most other normal day-to-day activities (like Driving a car for example)

And if you are so incensed by the people that had massively negative reactions - how do you feel about the 3,000 odd dead Japanese children who died in multiple Measles outbreaks?

If you were in anyway consistent with your moral outrage, you would be shedding tears of blood in their memory....

[Katman]

The individuals may have - but when put in perspective of number of people vaccined vs number of people with serious lifelong complications definitively proved to be caused by the vaccine - it is smaller than most other normal day-to-day activities (like Driving a car for example)

Your previous post started with "Even assuming it is a scam....."

Therefore, if it turns out to be a scam then those people have lost massively without any gain for anyone. (Except for Merck).

[Banditbandit]

Your previous post started with "Even assuming it is a scam....."

Therefore, if it turns out to be a scam then those people have lost massively without any gain for anyone.

How can it be a scam? The incidence of these diseases has dropped because of vaccination programmes. There is a definite cause and effect proven link here.

So, whether or not it turns out that some vaccines are dangerous to some people, it cannot be a scam ...

Or can you name a viral disease that has largely disappeared due to a process other than vaccination?

[Katman]

How can it be a scam? The incidence of these diseases has dropped because of vaccination programmes. There is a definite cause and effect proven link here.

You do realise I'm talking specifically about the HPV vaccine, don't you?

[TheDemonLord]

Your previous post started with "Even assuming it is a scam....."

Therefore, if it turns out to be a scam then those people have lost massively without any gain for anyone.

I know I did - if one specific Vaccine turns out to be a Scam, does that discredit ALL vaccines?

You seem to flip and flop between wide sweeping accusations of the whole Pharmaceutical industry and all vaccines, then talk about a singular vaccine when asked for evidence.

[Katman]

I know I did - if one specific Vaccine turns out to be a Scam, does that discredit ALL vaccines?

I never said it did.

[Banditbandit]

You do realise I'm talking specifically about the HPV vaccine, don't you?

No - I missed the reference - my bad.

HPV is relatively innocuous in itself - but it can cause cancers. Like everything in the cancer world, it seems a bit hit and miss - some will get cancer some will not - the same arguments that the tobacco industry use to defend their products .. the hit-and-miss nature means there is no hard proof that it causes cancer ..

Is it a scam? It's too soon on this one - we will not know for quite a number of years whether it has any impact on the rates of cancers following HPV infection.

Would you take the risk?

[Katman]

Would you take the risk?

Well I'm clearly not planning on lining up for an HPV shot, if that's what you're asking.

[TheDemonLord]

Well I'm clearly not planning on lining up for an HPV shot, if that's what you're asking.

I'm going out on a Limb here - but I don't *Quite* think you are the target audience....

[Banditbandit]

Well I'm clearly not planning on lining up for an HPV shot, if that's what you're asking.

Yeah - you're a bit old. If you have it it's too late ...



I'm going out on a Limb here - but I don't *Quite* think you are the target audience....

That's right ...

[husaberg]

From Katspaman and Yokels facebook page
329032

[Katman]

or seek to educate them... https://go.thetruthaboutvaccines.com/sneak-peek/

Anyone else prepared to watch this series with an open mind?

We could attempt to rationally discuss the contents afterwards.

[Drew]

Anyone else prepared to watch this series with an open mind?

We could attempt to rationally discuss the contents afterwards.
I'm not.

I trust my doctor.

He's real smart. That's why he's a doctor and not a drug fucked bike mechanic.

You're an idiot.

[Katman]

I'm not.

I trust my doctor.

He's real smart. That's why he's a doctor and not a drug fucked bike mechanic.

You're an idiot.

There's lots of doctors in the documentary too Drew.

Some of them might even be smarter than your one.

[Woodman]

I have been vaccinated and am still alive.

[Katman]

I have been vaccinated and am still alive.

So are the people who have suffered major complications from them.

(Except the dead ones of course - they're not).

[pritch]

So are the people who have suffered major complications from them.

(Except the dead ones of course - they're not).

Well, just for a change I can't argue with your logic - or the lack thereof.

[Katman]

Well, just for a change I can't argue with your logic - or the lack thereof.

Don't worry, I'm sure someone will try to.

[TheDemonLord]

So are the people who have suffered major complications from them.

(Except the dead ones of course - they're not).

And what about those that suffered major complications (and Death) from not being Vaccinated?

Pretty sure those vastly outweigh those that supposedly have....

[Katman]

And what about those that suffered major complications (and Death) from not being Vaccinated?

Pretty sure those vastly outweigh those that supposedly have....

So are you willing to watch the documentary series?

[TheDemonLord]

So are you willing to watch the documentary series?

I prefer reading the Scientific research on it....

[Katman]

I prefer reading the Scientific research on it....

You just never know - the documentary might give you some leads to follow up in your quest for scientific research.

For example, have you ever read anything about Reverse Transcriptase?

(I imagine you're furiously googling right about now).

[TheDemonLord]

You just never know - the documentary might give you some leads to follow up in your quest for scientific research.

It is a possibility, but seeing as both Bogan and yourself will be watching it - you can review it, and based on that, I'll decide if I watch it.


For example, have you ever read anything about Reverse Transcriptase?

Nope.


(I imagine you're furiously googling right about now).

I had a quick google to be fair, and a quick read, but it appears to be a subject I'll need more than one read through and to sit down and concentrate to understand.

[Banditbandit]

For example, have you ever read anything about Reverse Transcriptase?



It's the method that some viruses use to take over a cell's DNA and reproduce itself ...

What has that got to do with vaccines?

if you are suggesting that is what vaccines do, it is exactly the same as when people catch the virus that is being vaccinated against.

[Katman]

What has that got to do with vaccines?

It's covered in one of the episodes of the documentary.

[bogan]

So are you willing to watch the documentary series?

Sorry KM, that sort of redirect is one going away from rational discourse. TDLs point is a central one key to the topic at hand, it is irrational to distract from this.


It is a possibility, but seeing as both Bogan and yourself will be watching it - you can review it, and based on that, I'll decide if I watch it.

*start watching it. And of course I shall review, cos fuck yeh scientific method.

[Akzle]

i got vaccinated once - nearly died.


havent been since - pretty fucken healthy. like, actually, healthier than you.

[Bass]

i got vaccinated once - nearly died.




Just signed up for vaccination against:-

Hep A
Hep B
Typhoid
Tetanus (throw in diptheria and hooping cough with that one)
Polio
Rabies


Katman is right.
Reading the bill was fkn near fatal and then there's the malaria prophylactics and the HTFU Immodium.

[Akzle]

Just signed up for vaccination against:-

Hep A
Hep B
Typhoid
Tetanus (throw in diptheria and hooping cough with that one)
Polio
Rabies


given the number of whores i fuck, it's likely if i don't have, i'm probably carrying HIVs A through F.

dunno bout typhoid.

i have rusty metal on the wrong side of my skin on at least an annual basis. haven't had a tetanus jab since i passed the age of reason.

had polio (never vaccinated against), shook it.

i'm sure some would consider me rabid, but i'm not... much.

[Virago]

Anyone else prepared to watch this series with an open mind?

We could attempt to rationally discuss the contents afterwards.

"The truth about vaccines", eh?

I am always rather sceptical of any conspiracy theorist enthusiast who claims to be espousing "the truth". Whether the claims are questioned or gobbled up, depends on your own particular bias.

But on to this doco series.

The presenter, Ty Bollinger, has some history. He is a fanatical natural health promoter. He has already done a doco series on cancer. His views on cancer are at best off target, mainly revolving around rampant conspiracies about the medical profession. He makes somewhat bizarre claims that cancer doesn't kill anyone, they are killed only by the cancer treatment. This is somewhat of a surprise to me, as my aunt died a couple of weeks ago from advanced aggressive (and untreated) cancer. As part of the doco series he trotted out a wide range of "experts" to confirm his views. Interestingly, many of the same "experts" appear in this new vaccine doco - I wonder why?

This new series is more of the same - perhaps worse. Despite the over-the-top claims of a balanced presentation, there is no doubting the almost frantic bias. Mr Bollinger's writings on the interwebs are quite vitriolic in his contempt for vaccines. He even criticises the smallpox vaccine.

So who are the experts promoted in the intro video. Let's have a look at them.

Dr Andrew Wakefield - let's not go there.

Mike Adams - Another natural health fanatic. He is a writer running several natural health (and anti-science) websites. A well-known conspiracy theorist who is anti-vaccine, he calls himself "The Health Ranger". Interestingly, Google recently de-listed his main website, Natural News.

Dr Rachael Ross - another alternative medicine fanatic who dispenses such advice on a TV show. A fervent anti-vaxxer.

Dr Joseph Mercola - another alternative medicine fanatic and anti-vaxxer.

Neil Z Miller - a journalist and vocal anti-vaxxer.

Dr Rashid Buttar - alternative cancer quack and confirmed anti-vaxxer.

Robert F Kennedy Jr - radio host and environmental activist, vocal anti-vaxxer.

Dr Paul Thomas - alternative practitioner and anti-vaxxer.

Dr Jennifer Margulis - her PhD is in language and literature, with no medical training. Fanatical anti-vaxxer.

Stephanie Seneff - a research computer scientist who dabbles in medical matters. She has written several papers which have been universally condemned for making "correlation is causation" assumptions using broad statistical extrapolations from limited data.

Nico LaHood - a lawyer with no scientific or medical background. A fervent believer that vaccines cause autism.

Mario Lamo-Jimenez - another vaccine=autism proponent.

Dr Sin Hang Lee - another anti-vaxxer using skewed data, and working with the anti-vaccine group SaneVax.

So there we are. A balanced programme? Yeah, right.

This is the internet generation, where "doing research" involves a goodly amount of time at the keyboard, searching for confirmation bias (it's certainly quicker and easier than actual medical training). I'm guessing that some people will find exactly what they're looking for in this documentary series. Good luck with that.

[Katman]

I'm guessing that some people will find exactly what they're looking for in this documentary series. Good luck with that.

Me? - I'll watch it with an open mind.

But thanks anyway for the warning.

[Drew]

Me? - I'll watch it with an open mind.

But thanks anyway for the warning.

No you won't. You lying fucktard.

[Katman]

No you won't. You lying fucktard.

Are you having one of your 'turns' again Drew?

Quick - to the medicine cabinet!

[Drew]

Are you having one of your 'turns' again Drew?

Quick - to the medicine cabinet!

I take the medicine every day, but you're thinking entirely too high of you self to assume you have an affect on me at all.

[Katman]

I've gotta say, I'm constantly amazed at the virulence displayed towards anyone who dares to ask questions about vaccines.

If it wasn't so disturbing it would be fucking hilarious.

[TheDemonLord]

I've gotta say, I'm constantly amazed at the virulence displayed towards anyone who dares to ask questions about vaccines.

If it wasn't so disturbing it would be fucking hilarious.

It's almost like those people know that the drop in Vaccination rates in the western world has lead to several outbreaks of viruses resulting in the Deaths of Children....

If THAT wasn't so disturbing it would be fucking Hilarious.


And bonus Irony points - where is your bleeding heart Sympathies for the thousands of Dead school children from Measles outbreaks?

Or does it only count if they are in Afghanistan and being shot at by US Helicopters?

[Katman]

And bonus Irony points - where is your bleeding heart Sympathies for the thousands of Dead school children from Measles outbreaks?

Or does it only count if they are in Afghanistan and being shot at by US Helicopters?

You do realise that particular irony works both ways, don't you?

Tell me again how the deaths of those children in Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki etc.were justified.

[Woodman]

You do realise that particular irony works both ways, don't you?

Tell me again how the deaths of those children in Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki etc.were justified.

You forgot London and Coventry if you are talking both ways.

[Woodman]

Me? - I'll watch it with an open mind.

But thanks anyway for the warning.

Tui.................

[Katman]

You forgot London and Coventry if you are talking both ways.

Absolutely.

Let's not forget the ones who died in Iraq, due to the sanctions imposed on them, either.

[Katman]

where is your bleeding heart Sympathies for the thousands of Dead school children from Measles outbreaks?

And would you care to elaborate on the "thousands of dead school children" from any recent measles outbreaks?

Because in 2009 there was an outbreak of measles in Bulgaria that affected 24,000 people of which 24 died.

Ukraine had an outbreak in 2001-2002 which affected 25,000 people with 14 deaths. They had another outbreak in 2006 affecting 44,000 people - with "at least 2 deaths".

Germany had an outbreak in 2001 affecting 6,000 people - with "at least 2 deaths". They had another outbreak in 2015 affecting 1,700 people - with 1 death.

From 2008 to 2012 there were 22,000 cases of measles in France - with 10 deaths.

Japan had an outbreak in 2000 affecting 200,000 people - with 88 deaths.

So from just those examples alone we've got 323,000 people contracting measles - with only 141 deaths.

Over the same 15 year period we've probably managed to kill about the same number of children, here in New Zealand alone, through acts of domestic violence.

So are you sure you're not just over-sensationalising things a little?

[husaberg]

And would you care to elaborate on the "thousands of dead school children" from any recent measles outbreaks?

Because in 2009 there was an outbreak of measles in Bulgaria that affected 24,000 people of which 24 died.

Ukraine had an outbreak in 2001-2002 which affected 25,000 people with 14 deaths. They had another outbreak in 2006 affecting 44,000 people - with "at least 2 deaths".

Germany had an outbreak in 2001 affecting 6,000 people - with "at least 2 deaths". They had another outbreak in 2015 affecting 1,700 people - with 1 death.

From 2008 to 2012 there were 22,000 cases of measles in France - with 10 deaths.

Japan had an outbreak in 2000 affecting 200,000 people - with 88 deaths.

So from just those examples alone we've got 323,000 people contracting measles - with only 141 deaths.

Over the same 15 year period we've probably managed to kill about the same number of children, here in New Zealand alone, through acts of domestic violence.

So are you sure you're not just over-sensationalising things a little?

Winner winner chicken diner that would have to be the most hypocritical thing you have ever said. (Now that’s saying something)


Measles has a more than 50% death rate for New Zealand children with low immunity, such as those receiving cancer treatment. To protect these children, it’s important we and our families are immunised so that we cannot spread the illness. http://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/conditions-and-treatments/diseases-and-illnesses/measles

Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
In 2015, there were 134 200 measles deaths globally – about 367 deaths every day or 15 deaths every hour.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 79% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2015 worldwide.
In 2015, about 85% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
During 2000-2015, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 20.3 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.
Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.
The disease remains one of the leading causes of death among young children globally, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine. Approximately 134 200 people died from measles in 2015 – mostly children under the age of 5.
Measles is caused by a virus in the paramyxovirus family and it is normally passed through direct contact and through the air. The virus infects the respiratory tract , then spreads throughout the body. Measles is a human disease and is not known to occur in animals.
Accelerated immunization activities have had a major impact on reducing measles deaths. During 2000-2015, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 20.3 million deaths. Global measles deaths have decreased by 79% from an estimated 651 600 in 2000* to 134 200 in 2015.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

[Katman]

Winner winner chicken diner

Read my signature.

[Katman]

A quote from the US Department of Health and Human Services Federal Register June 1, 1984.......

"....any possible doubts, whether or not well-founded, about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist in view of the need to ensure the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation's public health objectives".

[husaberg]

A quote from the US Department of Health and Human Services Federal Register June 1, 1984.......

"....any possible doubts, whether or not well-founded, about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist in view of the need to ensure the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation's public health objectives".


http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/_literature_80498/Federal_Register_1984
In the 12-year period 1969 through 1980, approximately 290 million doses of oral poliovirus vaccine were distributed and 92 cases of paralytic poliomyelitis associated with the vaccine were reported to CDC (1 case per 3.3 million doses distributed). In 1933, a total of eight cases of paralytic poliomyelitis were reported to CDC. In 1982, the World Health Organization (WHO) Consultive Group on Live Poliomyelitis nations in the study. Accordingly, FDA finds that the low neurovirulence of the currently licensed oral poliovirus vaccine has been demonstrated thoroughly throughout its history of manufacture.
As discussed above, questions have been raised in litigation about whether the vaccine used in the clinical trials conducted in 1962 for the approval of the sole license for oral poliovirus vaccine met all of the technical requirements in § 630.11. FDA believes it is in the interest of the public health to make the amendment effective as soon as possible to make certain that questions concerning whether the vaccine lots used in the original clinical trials technically conformed with the requirements of the additional standards in 21 CFR 630.10 to 630.17 do not cast doubt on the safety of the vaccine and on the continued viability of the polio immunization program. As noted above, oral poliovirus vaccine is the vaccine of choice in the United States. As a result of the use of the vaccine, cases of paralytic poliomyelitis have been reduced from 18,000 in 1953 to only 8 cases in 1983. Moreover, the several minor outbreaks of poliomyelitis arising in 1970,1972, and 1979 in unimmunized populations in the United States and abroad make clear that the immunization program is essential to the protection of the public health. FDA emphasizes that the lots used in the clinical trials submitted in support of the license were properly judged to be safe for purposes of the initial licensure decision and that, in view of the technical nature of any possible .deficiencies in the lots, FDA does not believe, that action to revoke the license under § 601.5 is warranted. However, although the continued availability of the vaccine may not be in immediate jeopardy, any possible doubts, whether or not well founded, about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist in view of the need to assure that the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation's public health objectives. Accordingly, because of the importance of the vaccine and of maintaining public confidence in the immunization program that depends on it, good cause emsts to issue these amendments as a final rule effective immediately. The fact that the amendment relieves a restriction also justifies making the rule effective immediately
Egg.....................1 case per 3.3 million doses for an oral vacine for polio


Polio (poliomyelitis) mainly affects children under 5 years of age.
1 in 200 infections leads to irreversible paralysis. Among those paralysed, 5% to 10% die when their breathing muscles become immobilized.
Polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated 350 000 cases then, to 74 reported cases in 2015. The reduction is the result of the global effort to eradicate the disease.
As long as a single child remains infected, children in all countries are at risk of contracting polio. Failure to eradicate polio from these last remaining strongholds could result in as many as 200 000 new cases every year, within 10 years, all over the world.http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs114/en/

[Katman]

Egg.....................1 case per 3.3 million doses for an oral vacine for polio

Regardless of whether you put it in supersized font or not, it doesn't change the actual words.

"....any possible doubts, whether or not well-founded, about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist...."

[husaberg]

Regardless of whether you put it in supersized font or not, it doesn't change the actual words.

"....any possible doubts, whether or not well-founded, about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist...."

With 1 death per 3.3 million doses for a polio vaccine thats lowered the incidence of the disease by 99% A disease where 1 in 200 infections leads to irreversible paralysis. Among those paralysed, 5% to 10% die when their breathing muscles become immobilized. yeah right good one egg.......

[Katman]

With 1 death per 3.3 million doses for a polio vaccine thats lowered the incidence of the disease by 99% A disease where 1 in 200 infections leads to irreversible paralysis. Among those paralysed, 5% to 10% die when their breathing muscles become immobilized. yeah right good one egg.......

So even well-founded doubts about the vaccine were not allowed to exist.

Says a lot about the integrity of an idea if one isn't allowed to question it - even if well-founded questions arise.

[husaberg]

So even well-founded doubts about the vaccine were not allowed to exist.

Says a lot about the integrity of an idea if one isn't allowed to question it - even if well-founded questions arise.

Which part of 1 death per 3.3 million doses do you not understand.............
Math isn't really your strong point, much like yokel.........
I for one are very glad you never managed to sucessfully pass on your genetics.

[Katman]

Which part of 1 death per 3.3 million doses do you not understand

What part of 'well-founded doubts' do you not understand?

[Drew]

What part of 'well-founded doubts' do you not understand?

The 'we'll founded' bit you fucking moron.

[Katman]

The 'we'll founded' bit you fucking moron.

What the fuck does 'we'll founded' mean?:scratch:

Perhaps if you're going to call someone a fucking moron it would be wise to proof read your post first.

[husaberg]

What part of 'well-founded doubts' do you not understand?

One death per 3.3 million doses of vaccine for some anti vaccination zealots far beyond what is too risky, This is due to paranoia and a lack of decisive decision making skills, to comprehend that this is incredibly a low ratio. Especially compared to the very real risk of the disease the vaccination is designed to prevent.
This is mainly due to people such as yourself and other paranoid trolls continually either making up issues or posting data totally out of context.
Your own continued belief that vaccinations are not safe is generally based on extreme paranoia and well know fraud carried out Andrew Wakefield. You continue to hold these belief despite overwhelming evidence that this was totally fabricated. Do we need and further proof that you are not interested in actual facts. Thus your paranoia prevents you from having common sense or decisive decision making skills

[Virago]

A quote from the US Department of Health and Human Services Federal Register June 1, 1984.......

"....any possible doubts, whether or not well-founded, about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist in view of the need to ensure the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation's public health objectives".

And it works. There were no hysterical morons bleating on the internet about informed consent, and believing that the minuscule (virtually non-existent) risk of vaccine related death was much worse than the hugely greater risk of polio death, and extolling people to avoid vaccination. The good old days...

From that point of view the FDA paper should be kept in perspective. It's a 33 year-old document.

[Katman]

From that point of view the FDA paper should be kept in perspective. It's a 33 year-old document.

And it's one that clearly spells out the fact that questions regarding the safety of vaccines, whether well-founded or not, will not be tolerated.

[Virago]

And it's one that clearly spells out the fact that questions regarding the safety of vaccines, whether well-founded or not, will not be tolerated.

Will? Or was? 33 years.

[Katman]

Will? Or was? 33 years.

If you think the same mind-set doesn't exist today, I'd suggest you're being incredibly naive.

[Katman]

How about the fact that compounds like polysorbate 80, which are used to overcome the blood/brain barrier, are also used in vaccines.

Is it possible that these compounds are also allowing adjuvant ingredients such as mercury and aluminium to cross that same barrier?

[husaberg]

How about the fact that compounds like polysorbate 80, which are used to overcome the blood/brain barrier, are also used in vaccines.

Is it possible that these compounds are also allowing adjuvant ingredients such as mercury and aluminium to cross that same barrier?


If you think the same mind-set doesn't exist today, I'd suggest you're being incredibly naive.

How much do you sincerely believe your beliefs are based on extreme paranoia?
Maybe you should start another poll.

[Katman]

The FDA have set a safety limit for aluminium of 5 micrograms per kilogram of body weight.

Therefore, a 4 kilogram baby would have a maximum allowance of 20 micrograms of aluminium.

Turns out that vaccines are not required to adhere to those safety limits.

Vaccine doses will commonly contain around 250 micrograms of aluminium. (And some contain considerably more).

[husaberg]

How about the fact that compounds like polysorbate 80, which are used to overcome the blood/brain barrier, are also used in vaccines.

Is it possible that these compounds are also allowing adjuvant ingredients such as mercury and aluminium to cross that same barrier?


The FDA have set a safety limit for aluminium of 5 micrograms per kilogram of body weight.

Therefore, a 4 kilogram baby would have a maximum allowance of 20 micrograms of aluminium.

Turns out that vaccines are not required to adhere to those safety limits.

Vaccine doses will commonly contain around 250 micrograms of aluminium. (And some contain considerably more).

Youre Gish Galloping again.
http://www.freshle.de/party-leipzig/images/artikel/distillery011216_01.jpg

[bogan]

And it's one that clearly spells out the fact that questions regarding the safety of vaccines, whether well-founded or not, will not be tolerated.

That's one interpretation, there is another. Which is that the public should be educated well enough about the pros and cons of a vaccine to put any 'well founded' doubts into perspective (thus non-existence), thus preventing the ignorant from choosing not to vaccinate and harming the population as a whole by providing refuge for easily preventable diseases.

[Katman]

And has anyone yet claimed the $100,000 on offer for being able produce one single study that shows thimerosal is a safe ingredient in vaccines?

[Katman]

That's one interpretation, there is another. Which is that the public should be educated well enough about the pros and cons of a vaccine to put any 'well founded' doubts into perspective (thus non-existence), thus preventing the ignorant from choosing not to vaccinate and harming the population as a whole by providing refuge for easily preventable diseases.

So how are you getting on with the videos?

[husaberg]

TORONTO – Jenny McCarthy, the celebrity mom who has been outspoken about linking vaccines to autism, is eating her words.
In an op-ed published in the Chicago Sun Times, McCarthy said that she’s “pro-vaccine.” It’s just that she was misbranded and misunderstood, she suggests.

“I believe in the importance of a vaccine program and I believe parents have the right to choose one poke per visit. I’ve never told anyone to not vaccinate,” McCarthy said.


She says “blatantly inaccurate blog posts about my position have been accepted as truth by the public.”
Her opinion piece incited backlash from her critics. McCarthy provides statements she made about vaccination in the past – including “Please understand that we are not an anti-vaccine group. We are demanding safe vaccines.” Her critics say it’s too little too late.

bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa

[bogan]

So how are you getting on with the videos?

I gave Ep 2 10 minutes, it said the right things to start with (that which was on the tin also); unbiased examination of the science etc. It then proceeded to outline scenarios and methods which could pervert studies, yet failed to put forward any sort of examination of studies to show that had actually happened.

I give it 5 out of 5 snake oils; it's made to sound good to those not well versed in the scientific method, but has nothing of substance.

[Katman]

I gave Ep 2 10 minutes, it said the right things to start with (that which was on the tin also); unbiased examination of the science etc. It then proceeded to outline scenarios and methods which could pervert studies, yet failed to put forward any sort of examination of studies to show that had actually happened.

I give it 5 out of 5 snake oils; it's made to sound good to those not well versed in the scientific method, but has nothing of substance.

Why are you so against educating yourself?

[bogan]

Why are you so against educating yourself?

Would you like to rationally discuss the content I watched, or not?

[Katman]

Pregnant women are now being warned against eating certain fish due to the level of mercury in them and yet they are being actively encouraged to get the flu vaccine which contains an even more toxic version of mercury.

Does that make any sense?

[Katman]

Would you like to rationally discuss the content I watched, or not?

You've watched 10 minutes worth of 3 and a half hours content.

How can you possibly discuss it?

[bogan]

You've watched 10 minutes worth of 3 and a half hours content.

How can you possibly discuss it?

Rationally. And starting with what I outlined in those 10 minutes, would you disagree with my statement that they outlined many ways in which studies could be perverted, but failed to show that any actually had been?


Pregnant women are now being warned against eating certain fish due to the level of mercury in them and yet they are being actively encouraged to get the flu vaccine which contains a higher level of mercury.

Does that make any sense?

Yes. Mercury toxicity is cumulative, the body can easily process the mercury in a flu jab, obtained once a year, it cannot process the vastly higher amount of mercury ingested by a diet including contaminated fish.

[Katman]

Yes. Mercury toxicity is cumulative, the body can easily process the mercury in a flu jab, obtained once a year, it cannot process the vastly higher amount of mercury ingested by a diet including contaminated fish.

Ethyl mercury is considerably more toxic than methyl mercury.

[Katman]

Rationally. And starting with what I outlined in those 10 minutes, would you disagree with my statement that they outlined many ways in which studies could be perverted, but failed to show that any actually had been?

Watch some more of the videos and you might actually have something worth offering to a discussion.

[bogan]

Ethyl mercury is considerably more toxic than methyl mercury.

Good thing the dose is considerably less than fuck all then.


Watch some more of the videos and you might actually have something worth offering to a discussion.

No, I have contributed a rational point about the irrationality of the videos, that is enough to begin a discussion if the other side is willing, evidently, you are not. As with Ty Bollinger, you claim to have the motivation/method is right, yet your actions show the polar opposite. If you have nothing rational to contribute, I'll leave you and husa to your gish gallop.

[Katman]

Yes. Mercury toxicity is cumulative, the body can easily process the mercury in a flu jab, obtained once a year,

What if the polysorbate 80 I mentioned earlier is providing a means for the mercury to cross the blood/brain barrier?

[Katman]

No, I have contributed a rational point about the irrationality of the videos, that is enough to begin a discussion if the other side is willing, evidently, you are not.

If you're not prepared to watch the videos you can hardly call yourself willing to partake in a rational discussion about them.

[Katman]

And let's not forget that during the 50s and 60s, the medical profession was used by the tobacco industry to promote the benefits of smoking.

Today the medical profession is being used to promote the interests of the pharmaceutical industry.

I believe those interests are more aimed at making money rather than at improving the well-being of society.

[Katman]

And talking of polio, has anyone seen the graph comparing DDT use to the incidence of polio?

It appears the polio vaccination program was required as a direct result of pesticide use.

<img src="http://www.whale.to/vaccine/6.gif"/>

[Zarkov]

Haha

183 Pages.

[Ocean1]

You've watched 10 minutes worth of 3 and a half hours content.

How can you possibly discuss it?

Probably for the same reason most of us don't bother reading your posts, a couple of minutes reading is more than enough to establish them as unmitigated crap, there's no possible benefit in exposing yourself to more of the same.

[Katman]

Probably for the same reason most of us don't bother reading your posts, a couple of minutes reading is more than enough to establish them as unmitigated crap, there's no possible benefit in exposing yourself to more of the same.

But you keep coming back.

[Katman]

I gave Ep 2 10 minutes, it said the right things to start with (that which was on the tin also); unbiased examination of the science etc. It then proceeded to outline scenarios and methods which could pervert studies, yet failed to put forward any sort of examination of studies to show that had actually happened.

I'll give you a teaser......

Towards the end of Ep 2 is a perfect example of perverting results to push an agenda.

See if you can find it.

[Katman]

http://www.sv40foundation.org/cpv-link.html

[husaberg]

And talking of polio, has anyone seen the graph comparing DDT use to the incidence of polio?

It appears the polio vaccination program was required as a direct result of pesticide use.

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/6.gif
You are full of shit.
You should rest well at night knowing you are doing your best spreading what is at best ill-informed paranoia, but mostly total fabrications , You continue to do so with the full knowledge it will kill innocent children.
http://www.earth-policy.org/images/uploads/graphs_tables/highlights19_polio85.PNGhttp://fr.vaccine-safety-training.org/tl_files/vs/images/01-05-diagram2.gif

[Katman]

You are full of shit.


Do you know the difference between wild polio and polio caused by the vaccine?

[husaberg]

Do you know the difference between wild polio and polio caused by the vaccine?
Wow yet another gish gallop
http://www.freshle.de/party-leipzig/images/artikel/distillery011216_01.jpg
I appear to know more than you do about pretty much everything we have ever discussed. This is something you should be well aware of, but are far to enamoured with yourself to have noticed ,As it appears to have escaped your attention prevously. More than ikely as a result of your narcissism.
Maybe should should give us all some proof that the incidence of polio is any any way shape or form related to the use of ddt as you previously alluded.

And talking of polio, has anyone seen the graph comparing DDT use to the incidence of polio?
It appears the polio vaccination program was required as a direct result of pesticide use.
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/6.gif

Polio. Polio vaccine was licensed in the United States in 1955. During 1951-1954, an average of 16,316 paralytic polio cases and 1879 deaths from polio were reported each year. Polio incidence declined sharply following the introduction of vaccine to less than 1000 cases in 1962 and remained below 100 cases after that year. In 1994, every dollar spent to administer oral poliovirus vaccine saved $3.40 in direct medical costs and $2.74 in indirect societal costs. The last documented indigenous transmission of wild poliovirus in the United States occurred in 1979. Since then, reported cases have been either vaccine-associated or imported. As of 1991, polio caused by wild-type viruses has been eliminated from the Western Hemisphere . Enhanced use of the inactivated polio vaccine is expected to reduce the number of vaccine-associated cases, which averaged eight cases per year during 1980-1994
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm

[bogan]

Do you know the difference between wild polio and polio caused by the vaccine?

Do the afflicted?


I'll give you a teaser......

Towards the end of Ep 2 is a perfect example of perverting results to push an agenda.

See if you can find it.

I'm thinking I just did.

However, as I did with my earlier summation, you should provide details on where in the video such information is, and what information is presented. This is very helpful to move forward with a rational discussion.

[Katman]

However, as I did with my earlier summation, you should provide details on where in the video such information is, and what information is presented. This is very helpful to move forward with a rational discussion.

Or you could fuck off and watch the video.

[Katman]

Enhanced use of the inactivated polio vaccine is expected to reduce the number of vaccine-associated cases, which averaged eight cases per year during 1980-1994

So they had to produce a vaccine to try and irradiate the polio that the polio vaccine caused.

[husaberg]

So they had to produce a vaccine to try and irradiate the polio that the polio vaccine caused.
Another gish gallop
http://www.freshle.de/party-leipzig/images/artikel/distillery011216_01.jpg
No they clearly refined the vaccine to lower the incidence below the 8 out of 100,000,000 doses.
Of course you would rather that 1879 died per year as was happening prior to the introduction of vaccine in the US alone.
Also that polio viruses had not been eliminated from the Western Hemisphere.