Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Oakie]

Ahhhh I do miss Akzle. Skidmark and Akzle would have been hilarious together.

[mashman]

If one has an underlying condition, and then one contracts something like Covid-19 and it contributes to their death, then what is the cause of death? The cause is both, because without both it is entrely possible that life will have continued for some time. Both being required to cause death.

Same with vaccine injury in many ways.

Kinda makes me wonder, what's the preoccupation with diagnosing one thing over another where both things were required to exist for a new condition to come into being?

The answer is primarily financial, be it dodging lawsuits, avoiding the associated financial loss from vaccine uptake (I more than acknowledge the dangers of seeing the reintroduction of some nasties that we've "avoided", so unbunch yer knickers), or indeed simply losing share price.

Why can't we admit that both conditions were required? The answer ain't pretty, but it is why it is and has very little to do with us all suddenly not wanting to vaccinate or not vaccinate people. We may simply have to up our game i.e. pre-test foor potential conditions that we probably haven't bothered to look for in any real meaningful way yet.

And so on lol.......

[flyingcrocodile46]

All you people who are in denial of the reality of the very real danger in blindly accepting accepting mainstream advice on vaccines. (AKA Anti -Anti Vaxxers or SHEEP)

A lesson in the way to properly fact check claims before you falsely claim to have "Debunked" truth as conspiracy theory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaHuTNh8fAo


For those who (after having watched the above) want to know more about the substantial and very important information (of which the above interesting lesson is but 1%) from a source who you can rely 99.99% (as meticulously evidenced in the video lesson on how to accurately and fully fact check), please follow the links in the video show notes to the man's website and watch the 4 video series on Bill Gates. You do not have to join his site to watch them or can watch them on youtube direct.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaHuTNh8fAo

Love from me to you.

[Bonez]

I haven't had a flue vaccination in over 6 years. I'm still alive. Haven't had any flue like symptoms in that time either.

[FJRider]

I haven't had a flue vaccination in over 6 years. I'm still alive. Haven't had any flue like symptoms in that time either.

That flue sounds quite painful .. :eek: does it need swept too ... ??? :shifty:


Flue - a duct for smoke and waste gases produced by a fire, a gas heater, a power station, or other fuel-burning installation.

Flu - is a disease that's easily spread between people.

[Viking01]

https://www.rt.com/usa/493068-gates-vaccine-consent-coronavirus/

It's the sight of Bill wringing his hands that worries me .... 8-)

[Bonez]

That flue sounds quite painful .. :eek: does it need swept too ... ??? :shifty:


Flue - a duct for smoke and waste gases produced by a fire, a gas heater, a power station, or other fuel-burning installation.

Flu - is a disease that's easily spread between people. You got me lol. I miss pritch critiquing my posts:rolleyes:

[Katman]

It's the sight of Bill wringing his hands that worries me .... 8-)

Billionaires don't earn their billions without a little bit of hand wringing.

[Viking01]

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/06/28/2022-vaccination-passport-eu-keeps-quiet-over-suspicious-documents/

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mass-tracking-covi-pass-immunity-passports-be-rolled-out-15-countries

[Katman]

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/measles-vaccination-and-autism-the-inexcusable-suppression-of-a-long-documented-link/?fbclid=IwAR1koBTsJ_fHG5_D7-5b8vAKJN57cccF0ERSPy1ItL0hN8s-HVBdhEQw560

[Katman]

And before anyone trots out the old 'correlation does not imply causation' argument, any correlation still deserves full and unbiased investigation.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I'm sure it's all very innocent:facepalm: and that all the bladder challenged sheeple of the world will want to make it mandatory for all the world :yes:
https://www.biometricupdate.com/202007/trust-stamp-integrating-biometric-hash-solution-with-mastercard-on-childrens-vaccine-record-system

Bought to you by the good guys at herd them in and shut the Gates foundation

[flyingcrocodile46]

That simply can not rationally be denied.

The more you take vaccines the weaker your immune system becomes.

https://homevaccineeducationnetwork.com/flu-vaccine-and-covid-19

Flu Injection -- Fatal Infection

What connects the countries of Belgium, Peru, the UK, Spain, Italy, Chile, Sweden, the US, Mexico, and France? These countries, the top ten in COVID-19 mortality (as of August 24, 2020, according to Johns Hopkins (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality)), all injected more than 49% of their elderly populations with the flu vaccine. This stands in stark contrast to the countries on the low end, with fatality rates/popuation up to four orders of magnitude smaller: Rwanda, Thailand, Mozambique, Sri Lanka, Papau New Guinea, Uganda, Tanzania, Taiwan, and Vietnam - with the exception of a 49% vaccination rate in Taiwan, the flu vaccination rates in these countries is extremely low. While one might object that these countries may lack in testing ability, careful serological study of multiple countries in Africa has shown that while in fact many cases were missed, this is because the residents were in fact not very ill - while the number of individuals with COVID antibodies in Kenya (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.27.20162693v1.full.pdf), for example, was similar to Spain, the hospitals were never overwhelmed and excess deaths were not reported. However we look at the data - either between or within continents - higher rates of flu vaccination clearly appears to transform large numbers of COVID cases from mild to severe disease. As flu vaccines are being pushed aggressively and even mandated (https://abc7.com/flu-shot-requirement-uc-coronavirus-university-of-california-vaccine-covid-19-system/6361869/) in fall 2020, it is critical for citizens and medical professionals to review the issue. Please read on for data, references, and sources.

Low COVID-19 fatality rates seen in countries with low influenza vaccine coverage

Cunningham, (2020) (https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1932/rr-15) published a list of flu shot coverage rates in European countries vs. their COVID-19 fatality rates. His data is graphed below, updated through July 16 and supplemented with every other country for which we could find influenza vaccine data. This includes the United States, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, Iceland, Israel, and South Korea. Because COVID-19 testing and reporting may be inconsistent between countries, we also provide the peak total excess death rate since January of 2020, in the form of a statistical Z score (https://www.euromomo.eu/how-it-works/what-is-a-z-score) for countries for which this was available. Full data and sources are given at the bottom of this article. All flu vaccine coverage data comes from 2019, if available, or 2018.


P.S. Manufacturer's of vaccines have zero legal liability for the effects of their vaccines irrespective of whether their vaccines kill 1 person or one billion people.

There is no risk for them to recklessly and/or falsely promote their products through fear and false promises. Massive profits zero risk. But you can trust them.

What do you have to lose??

[Oscar]

Correlation does not imply causation.
There's all the rational denial that's needed.

[Katman]

Correlation does not imply causation.

Refer a mere four posts ago.

[Oscar]

Refer a mere four posts ago.

..and yet here we have idiots posting unsubstantiated theories (like vaccines weaken the immune system) that have their ONLY basis in correlation.

[mashman]

Correlation does not imply causation.
There's all the rational denial that's needed.

I know right. Fuckin' scientists and their scientific method wielding Occam's Razor like Victor Frankenstein.

[Oscar]

I know right. Fuckin' scientists and their scientific method wielding Occam's Razor like Victor Frankenstein.

You can't rationally deny an irrational proposition.

[Katman]

..and yet here we have idiots posting unsubstantiated theories (like vaccines weaken the immune system) that have their ONLY basis in correlation.

And like I said, even correlation deserves full and open consideration and investigation.

But you're so blinded by your 'questioning vaccines = anti-vax = fuckwit' viewpoint that you're willing to dismiss the idea of investigation in case it turns your little world upside down.

[mashman]

You can't rationally deny an irrational proposition.

Oh. I thought that that's exactly what science was for, you know, to decide what is and is not rational using rationality.

[Oscar]

Oh. I thought that that's exactly what science was for, you know, to decide what is and is not rational using rationality.

Not if you start irrationally like:The 2019 Influenza Vaccine and COVID-19 link


So he adds a correlation between Covid rates and Vaccine rates to a claim that 'Manufacturer's of vaccines have zero legal liability for the effects of their vaccines".
This is then translated to: ''There is no risk for them to recklessly and/or falsely promote their products through fear and false promises.''

Firstly, there is undoubtedly a correlation between Covid19 and people who have Flu Vaccines. But there is simply no evidence to prove a causative link between vaccines and Covid - you may as well draw a link between "people who drive cars and Covid".

Then, the statement about vaccine makers liability is simply wrong. He doesn't bother stating which jurisdiction he talking about, but there are certainly regulations in NZ and in Europe. Granted, the US has tried to limit liability, but it still exists in case law and statute.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/5/10-081901/en/


Vaccine-injury compensation programmes are increasingly regarded as an important component of successful vaccination programmes. They have been used for the past 50 years to ensure that individuals who are adversely affected in the interests of protecting the whole community are adequately compensated and cared for. There are a variety of schemes with different structures and approaches in use throughout the world. The schemes function most efficiently when they operate alongside well established, comprehensive national social welfare systems. In these countries, vaccine-injury compensation schemes have been found to have a relatively low administrative cost, especially compared to civil litigation cases.36,48

In the first decade of the 21st century, acceptance of vaccine-injury compensation has grown. Schemes are being enacted beyond industrialized Europe and North America. The importance of these schemes, based on ethical principles, has been stressed by parent groups, and claimants have reported satisfaction in having received compensation through a streamlined process.49,50 Apart from the reluctance of governments to move away from the adversarial approach to providing compensation, we believe there is a strong argument for widespread implementation of these programmes in other developed countries.

[Oscar]

And like I said, even correlation deserves full and open consideration and investigation.

But you're so blinded by your 'questioning vaccines = anti-vax = fuckwit' viewpoint that you're willing to dismiss the idea of investigation in case it turns your little world upside down.

Stop being obtuse.
There is no conclusive evidence or investigation backing the claim or implication that Vaccines cause COVID.
You are prepared, in the interests of being a contrarian sceptic, to allow him to make outrageous claims with no proof.
Your world is predicated on fuckwittery.

[mashman]

Not if you start irrationally like:The 2019 Influenza Vaccine and COVID-19 link


So he adds a correlation between Covid rates and Vaccine rates to a claim that 'Manufacturer's of vaccines have zero legal liability for the effects of their vaccines".
This is then translated to: ''There is no risk for them to recklessly and/or falsely promote their products through fear and false promises.''

Firstly, there is undoubtedly a correlation between Covid19 and people who have Flu Vaccines. But there is simply no evidence to prove a causative link between vaccines and Covid - you may as well draw a link between "people who drive cars and Covid".

Then, the statement about vaccine makers liability is simply wrong. He doesn't bother stating which jurisdiction he talking about, but there is certainly regulations in the country, and in Europe. Granted, the US has tried to limit liability, but it still exists in case law and statute.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/5/10-081901/en/

Vaccine injury courts exist also. Occams Razor states that instead of dying, or hitting any one of the numerous spectrum disorders, or potentially just having a new tic, or developing eczema etc... that wasn't there pre-vaccination and not monitored for, that it entirely plausible that the immune system is still damaged during repeated bombardments. That you might not like that does not prevent the hypothesis from be more than simply plausible.

[Katman]

There is no conclusive evidence or investigation backing the claim or implication that Vaccines cause COVID.


I don't think the linked article is claiming that flu vaccines 'cause' Covid-19 - but rather, it's suggesting that there appears to be a correlation between flu vaccines and the susceptibility to succumb to the effects of Covid-19.

[Oscar]

Vaccine injury courts exist also. Occams Razor states that instead of dying, or hitting any one of the numerous spectrum disorders, or potentially just having a new tic, or developing eczema etc... that wasn't there pre-vaccination and not monitored for, that it entirely plausible that the immune system is still damaged during repeated bombardments. That you might not like that does not prevent the hypothesis from be more than simply plausible.

It's not a matter of if I like it or not, it's whether you can prove it.
And there is no proof.

[Oscar]

I don't think the linked article is claiming that flu vaccines 'cause' Covid-19 - but rather, it's suggesting that there appears to be a correlation between flu vaccines and the susceptibility to succumb to the effects of Covid-19.

Fine. But the assertion that COVID is worse were flu vaccines are more prevalent is coincidental and not proven.

[Katman]

Fine.

See, the problem you have in discussing any topic rationally stems from your inability to comprehend basic English.

[mashman]

It's not a matter of if I like it or not, it's whether you can prove it.
And there is no proof.

We once had natural herd immunity to Coronavirus, we have lost it/are losing it. We are the proof that it didn't infect us to potential death over thousands of years. Occams Razor... unless you consider the virus to be man made?

[Oscar]

We once had natural herd immunity to Coronavirus, we have lost it/are losing it. We are the proof that it didn't infect us to potential death over thousands of years. Occams Razor... unless you consider the virus to be man made?

That's interesting - when was the herd immunity developed?

[Oscar]

See, the problem you have in discussing any topic rationally stems from your inability to comprehend basic English.

I can understand irony.

[pritch]

That's interesting - when was the herd immunity developed?

Good question. The current problem is described as a "novel" Coronavirus which means it's new in humans. There is no herd immunity.

[mashman]

That's interesting - when was the herd immunity developed?

Over many lifetimes.

[Oscar]

Good question. The current problem is described as a "novel" Coronavirus which means it's new in humans. There is no herd immunity.

"You must spread some Reputation..."

Mashman may be poultry, possibly a duck.
That would explain his claim of herd (flock) immunity and many of his posts here...

[Oscar]

Over many lifetimes.

So you are posting from the future?

[mashman]

So you are posting from the future?

Are you saying that there has never been such a thing as herd immunity?

[Oscar]

Are you saying that there has never been such a thing as herd immunity?

I'm not saying owt.
You're saying that we have herd immunity to a virus that was only identified in Feb 2020:


We once had natural herd immunity to Coronavirus, we have lost it/are losing it.

[onearmedbandit]

Well he did say 'cornavirus', not covid-19 which is the specific strain.

[Bonez]

I'm not saying owt.
You're saying that we have herd immunity to a virus that was only identified in Feb 2020:Certain Western and other authorities knew it existed well before then.

No matter the origins Covid-19 is out and nothing can be done about that so all anyone can do it try to mitigate the amount of damage it causes.

Looking at the origins of the US infection it appears it got there via Europe.

Tons of consistory theories abound. So pick your favorite one :)

[Katman]

I'm not saying owt.
You're saying that we have herd immunity to a virus that was only identified in Feb 2020:

See the post below yours?

There's that comprehension thing again.

[pritch]

Well he did say 'cornavirus', not covid-19 which is the specific strain.

Herd immunity to any coronavirus is an interesting concept, if you consider that we are recommended to get a flu jab every year.

It seems though that herd immunity is now official US policy. If you extrapolate out the current figures that could result in 8.5 million deaths. I suspect that the unqualified quack that sold Trump that plan hasn't actually mentioned the death toll to Trump. The idiot in chief probably just likes that the plan doesn't require any action on his part.

[Bonez]

It seems though that herd immunity is now official US policy. If you extrapolate out the current figures that could result in 8.5 million deaths. I suspect that the unqualified quack that sold Trump that plan hasn't actually mentioned the death toll to Trump. The idiot in chief probably just likes that the plan doesn't require any action on his part.Wrong thread pritch.:brick:

[mashman]

I'm not saying owt.
You're saying that we have herd immunity to a virus that was only identified in Feb 2020:

I said that we HAD herd immunity. You were close, but typically Oscar spun. The virus has been around forever, as was Pluto before it was discovered. That something has not yet been discovered does not mean that it did not exist.

[Katman]

It seems though that herd immunity is now official US policy. If you extrapolate out the current figures that could result in 8.5 million deaths. I suspect that the unqualified quack that sold Trump that plan hasn't actually mentioned the death toll to Trump. The idiot in chief probably just likes that the plan doesn't require any action on his part.

It appears that Sweden may be showing a positive development in that respect.

[Bonez]

I said that we HAD herd immunity. You were close, but typically Oscar spun. The virus has been around forever, as was Pluto before it was discovered. That something has not yet been discovered does not mean that it did not exist.I miss pluto being designated a planet.

At primary school we were tought how to remember the planets and there positions by the following:

Many Very Early Maori Jumped Suddenly Upon Nearby Pakeha.

Still remember it all these years later.

Many Very Early Indigenous Peoples Jumped Suddenly Upon Nearby White Trash just doesn't cut it. :whistle:

[mashman]

I miss pluto being designated a planet.

At primary school we were tought how to remember the planets and there positions by remembering the following:

Many Very Early Maori Jumped Suddenly Upon Nearby Pakeha.

Still remember it all these years later.

Many Very Early Indigenous Peoples Jumped Suddenly Upon Nearby White Trash just doesn't cut it. :whistle:

Pluto just didn't have what it took unfortunately... so the white man rebranded it.

[Katman]

And the concept of herd immunity doesn't stem from a vaccination program.

Not many herds in the wild submit to them.

True herd immunity is created by the exposure to a virus.

[pete376403]

And the concept of herd immunity doesn't stem from a vaccination program.

Not many herds in the wild submit to them.

True herd immunity is created by the exposure to a virus.

mmmmm but in the wild, quite a lot of the herd will die, while this immunity develops. Are you willing to take the chance that you will be sacrificed for the good of the herd?

[caseye]

That's what it comes down to, until the Herd has immunity, no one knows who will succumb! There's the rub.
Course the other thing is, how many will succumb, some,lots, heaps who knows for sure, being part of a herd at a waterhole means some of them end up sacrificial for the Apex predators to pick off from the fringes, who wants to be that poor sop.:bleh:

[Katman]

Are you willing to take the chance that you will be sacrificed for the good of the herd?

The short answer to that is, yes.

[Oscar]

See the post below yours?

There's that comprehension thing again.

Don't be a twat your whole life, the discussion was about Covid19 (and I specifically referred to a virus detected in 2020) It's not my fault that he's intellectually lazy.

[Katman]

Don't be a twat your whole life, the discussion was about Covid19 (and I specifically referred to a virus detected in 2020) It's not my fault that he's intellectually lazy.

He quite clearly said Coronavirus.

It's not our fault that your comprehension sucks.

[Oscar]

And the concept of herd immunity doesn't stem from a vaccination program.

Not many herds in the wild submit to them.

True herd immunity is created by the exposure to a virus.

Jesus, look at the big brain on Brad.
Master of the obvious.

[Bonez]

Don't be a twat your whole life, the discussion was about Covid19 (and I specifically referred to a virus detected in 2020) It's not my fault that he's intellectually lazy.The thread is actually about immunisation not any particular pathogen.

[Bonez]

Jesus, look at the big brain on Brad.
Master of the obvious.I believe his name is Steve and has been refereed to as Karen. Don't know if he has a preference, as he responds to both.but Brad? Well it is a bit out there....:weird: Brad Pit is much better looking.

[Oscar]

I believe his name is Steve and has been refereed to as Karen. Don't know if he has a preference, as he responds to both.but Brad? Well it is a bit out there....:weird: Brad Pit is much better looking.

It's a Pulp Fiction reference.
https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F 298c9dd3-a6ec-40de-ad92-4814d0b1c1cb_554x623.png

[Drew]

I believe his name is Steve and has been refereed to as Karen. Don't know if he has a preference, as he responds to both.but Brad? Well it is a bit out there....:weird: Brad Pit is much better looking.

Pulp fiction.

[Oscar]

The thread is actually about immunisation not any particular pathogen.

Yeah, I was discussing this particular post:


That simply can not rationally be denied.

The more you take vaccines the weaker your immune system becomes.

https://homevaccineeducationnetwork.com/flu-vaccine-and-covid-19

Flu Injection -- Fatal Infection

What connects the countries of Belgium, Peru, the UK, Spain, Italy, Chile, Sweden, the US, Mexico, and France? These countries, the top ten in COVID-19 mortality (as of August 24, 2020, according to Johns Hopkins (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality)), all injected more than 49% of their elderly populations with the flu vaccine. This stands in stark contrast to the countries on the low end, with fatality rates/popuation up to four orders of magnitude smaller: Rwanda, Thailand, Mozambique, Sri Lanka, Papau New Guinea, Uganda, Tanzania, Taiwan, and Vietnam - with the exception of a 49% vaccination rate in Taiwan, the flu vaccination rates in these countries is extremely low. While one might object that these countries may lack in testing ability, careful serological study of multiple countries in Africa has shown that while in fact many cases were missed, this is because the residents were in fact not very ill - while the number of individuals with COVID antibodies in Kenya (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.27.20162693v1.full.pdf), for example, was similar to Spain, the hospitals were never overwhelmed and excess deaths were not reported. However we look at the data - either between or within continents - higher rates of flu vaccination clearly appears to transform large numbers of COVID cases from mild to severe disease. As flu vaccines are being pushed aggressively and even mandated (https://abc7.com/flu-shot-requirement-uc-coronavirus-university-of-california-vaccine-covid-19-system/6361869/) in fall 2020, it is critical for citizens and medical professionals to review the issue. Please read on for data, references, and sources.

Low COVID-19 fatality rates seen in countries with low influenza vaccine coverage

Cunningham, (2020) (https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1932/rr-15) published a list of flu shot coverage rates in European countries vs. their COVID-19 fatality rates. His data is graphed below, updated through July 16 and supplemented with every other country for which we could find influenza vaccine data. This includes the United States, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, Iceland, Israel, and South Korea. Because COVID-19 testing and reporting may be inconsistent between countries, we also provide the peak total excess death rate since January of 2020, in the form of a statistical Z score (https://www.euromomo.eu/how-it-works/what-is-a-z-score) for countries for which this was available. Full data and sources are given at the bottom of this article. All flu vaccine coverage data comes from 2019, if available, or 2018.


P.S. Manufacturer's of vaccines have zero legal liability for the effects of their vaccines irrespective of whether their vaccines kill 1 person or one billion people.

There is no risk for them to recklessly and/or falsely promote their products through fear and false promises. Massive profits zero risk. But you can trust them.

What do you have to lose??

[Oscar]

He quite clearly said Coronavirus.

It's not our fault that your comprehension sucks.

What are you?
The thread monitor?

Go back to my original post and try and follow the discussion.
I was replying to a post about COVID19.

[Bonez]

Yeah, I was discussing this particular post:OHHH my eyes!! Looks pretty but petty you didn't apply a bit of colour. It just makes you look stupid.:innocent:

You should put you name towards the up and coming KB Golden Husaburk awards being presented the Pink Palace later on in the year if Covir-19 allows. There will be a great turn out and lots of laughs I'm sure.

[Bonez]

Pulp fiction.
Thanks. But still a bit :weird:

[Oscar]

OHHH my eyes!! Looks pretty but petty you didn't apply a bit of colour. It just makes you look stupid.:innocent:

You should put you name towards the up and coming KB Golden Husaburk awards being presented the Pink Palace later on in the year if Covir-19 allows. There will be a great turn out and lots of laughs I'm sure.

It's not my post, Dumbarse.

[Bonez]

It's not my post, Dumbarse.See above sweaty pie darling.

Btw I prefer Stupid Bottom. I's a bit more polite.

[mashman]

It's not our fault that your comprehension sucks.

Yes it is according to Oscar. Who would have thought he would respond in such a way to getting his ass handed to him by himself. Fucking entertaining if nothing else mind.....

[Oscar]

I love this - three semi-literate dickwads carrying on a circle jerk in their tinfoil hats...

[Bonez]

I love this - three semi-literate dickwads carrying on a circle jerk in their tinfoil hats...You yourself and you invisible friend?:bash:

[mashman]

I love this - three semi-literate dickwads carrying on a circle jerk in their tinfoil hats...

And you are indeed welcome to eroticise such a fantasy... and in light of you handing your ass to yourself, you must be real turned on right now, hence your weasel words before run away and finish yourself off, again... obviously tricky with your ass in your hands, but I Am sure you, if anyone can, you can find a way to ignore that.

[pete376403]

The short answer to that is, yes.

Mt Roskill Evangelical fellowship is looking for new members, weekly subs are about $138.

[Katman]

Mt Roskill Evangelical fellowship is looking for new members, weekly subs are about $138.

They don't sound like my kind of fun.

[Bonez]

They don't sound like my kind of fun.If you make like Jesus you should fit right in.:sunny:

[R650R]

There’s various memes going around equating people who question vaccines to drug users...
Eg classic example says “Karen worries there might be something harmful in the ingediants” and then shows her sniffing lines of illegal drugs etc

Buts it’s an epic fail if you reword it to Karen will put anything in her body....

[husaberg]

https://i.redd.it/pnyqthws6s021.pnghttps://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/funny-anti-vaxx-memes-18-5c6ff440eda71__700.jpghttps://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/10876292/data/ravm-greys-anatomy-data.pnghttps://www.acsh.org/sites/default/files/hcq1d.jpghttps://i0.wp.com/ascienceenthusiast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/AntiVaxMeme016.jpg?resize=662%2C462&ssl=1
https://memeguy.com/photos/images/scumbag-jenny-mccarthy-anybody-else-find-this-incredibly-hypocritical-68547.pnghttps://i.imgflip.com/2vaf7y.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/p7sRn8N.pnghttps://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/5c6299ca327ee-png__700.jpg

[R650R]

Looks like you were vaxced with that autistic shotgun spray of memes in reply lol....

Vaxxer logic:
The immune system can’t be trusted to perform on its own, it needs a practice run on a weakened version of the virus.

That’s like having the all blacks practice against some hill billy backwater towns primary school team before they play World Cup final.

Even after you have the vaccine you still can’t trust the immune system so you must stay away from unvaccinated people who are still alive and not sick in case you catch the virus off them

So why were we taking this vac in first place??? Lol

FYI:
*you don’t need to be a doctor to read stats, stats that show certain health issues increasing at same rate as vax rates*

[onearmedbandit]

That’s like having the all blacks practice against some hill billy backwater towns primary school team before they play World Cup final.



Actually, had they never played that particular style of rugby nor seen it before then playing a weak team to get an understanding without getting thrashed would be an excellent idea.

[husaberg]

Vaxxer logic:
The immune system can’t be trusted to perform on its own, it needs a practice run on a weakened version of the virus.

That’s like having the all blacks practice against some hill billy backwater towns primary school team before they play World Cup final.



if that's the case

Anti Vaxxer logic:
The immune system can always be trusted to perform on its own, it needs no practice run on a weakened version ever.
That’s like having the all blacks play against some backwater towns primary school team who have never played rugby before and the anti-vaxxer expects them the kids not get hurt.

[R650R]

if that's the case

FAKE NEWS HUSTLERBErg

But ah that’s classic lefty trait of dishonesty altering a quote to suit.

Fraud is proper word I think...

[husaberg]

FAKE NEWS HUSTLERBErg

But ah that’s classic lefty trait of dishonesty altering a quote to suit.

Fraud is proper word I think...
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So you get shown up then the best you have is to claim fraud, oh that's very precious of you, not to mention rather funny.
Nice ad hominem though, but do you have any rebuke at all, for what was posted?

outside of false claims your post was altered to be fraudulent.




Vaxxer logic:
The immune system can’t be trusted to perform on its own, it needs a practice run on a weakened version of the virus.

That’s like having the all blacks practice against some hill billy backwater towns primary school team before they play World Cup final.





if that's the case

The immune system can always be trusted to perform on its own, it needs no practice run on a weakened version ever.
That’s like having the all blacks play against some backwater towns primary school team who have never played rugby before and the anti-vaxxer expects the kids not get hurt.

[R650R]

Jesus Fakeberg you done it twice now double incriminating.

This time you added your name into the altered quote material to try make you look right, but the original crime scene on previous page is different. It is formatted by you to make your fake news look like my post....

[husaberg]

Jesus Fakeberg you done it twice now double incriminating.

This time you added your name into the altered quote material to try make you look right, but the original crime scene on previous page is different. It is formatted by you to make your fake news look like my post....

At first, I thought you were trolling, but shit, it's actually because you are just rather dim.
how many times do I need to type it, so you realize I was using your own il conceived and rather pathetic example and taking it to its highly illogical conclusion.
(personally, I am picking a few more times.)
The only incriminating evidence on the other page. Is that you are just not that smart. Plus are prone to make false allegations.
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[ellipsis]

...I'm gonna vacillate, myself...

[mashman]

...I'm gonna vacillate, myself...

Are you sure?

[R650R]

At first, ...

Don't g digging yourself a deeper hole.

You rewrote stuff and presented it in the quote speech bubble that to the casual observer would look like I wrote it.

It's deliberate.

You can't make a reply post like that by accident.

Name calling doesn't change your lie but as usual you never counter an argument with relevant facts

[husaberg]

Don't g digging yourself a deeper hole.

You rewrote stuff and presented it in the quote speech bubble that to the casual observer would look like I wrote it.

It's deliberate.

You can't make a reply post like that by accident.

Name calling doesn't change your lie but as usual you never counter an argument with relevant facts

you are very dim. its not an insult, it's an observation based on what you post.

i suggested it would take a few more times before you twigged but I fear I have overestimated your level of inteligence.

At first, I thought you were trolling, but shit, it's actually because you are just rather dim.
how many times do I need to type it, so you realize I was using your own il conceived and rather pathetic example and taking it to its highly illogical conclusion.
(personally, I am picking a few more times.)
The only incriminating evidence on the other page. Is that you are just not that smart. Plus are prone to make false allegations.
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[R650R]

You can’t spam your way out of this and bury the post. Everyone will have gone back and seen it by now. Just admit you did it it is they’ve in black and white

[husaberg]

You can’t spam your way out of this and bury the post. Everyone will have gone back and seen it by now. Just admit you did it it is they’ve in black and white

Go on, Exactly what in your paranoid mind happened.
i suggested earlier it would take a few more times but here you go again.....


At first, I thought you were trolling, but shit, it's actually because you are just rather dim.
how many times do I need to type it, so you realize I was using your own il conceived and rather pathetic example and taking it to its highly illogical conclusion.
(personally, I am picking a few more times.)
The only incriminating evidence on the other page. Is that you are just not that smart. Plus are prone to make false allegations.
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[F5 Dave]

So mid next year c19 vax available to nz public. Geez that's early. India needs it first. But given the chance I'd volunteer mashedpotatoebrain and the strangely absent fatman for placebo in aggressive border trials.

[R650R]

Go on, Exactly what in your paranoid mind happened.
i suggested earlier it would take a few more times but here you go again.....

Now you've quadruple spam incriminated your self....

Nice job using photoshop to make the txt yellow in image two but go back to the original post previous page and it's not there, caught red handed in an act of yellow journalism sic

[R650R]

So mid next year c19 vax available to nz public. Geez that's early. India needs it first. But given the chance I'd volunteer mashedpotatoebrain and the strangely absent fatman for placebo in aggressive border trials.

That's because there will be very poor turnout in NZ 30deg summer even by the most virtue signalling branch covidian Karen's out there.
They need to wait till July next year when the next pre booked out break is scheduled and the winter flu season will cover off the false positives.
Dehydration and summer alcohol intake will amplify adverse reactions, too many people will get sick from the jab so it would be disaster for govt

[husaberg]

Now you've quadruple spam incriminated your self....

Nice job using photoshop to make the txt yellow in image two but go back to the original post previous page and it's not there, caught red handed in an act of yellow journalism sic

You're not the full quid bro.......
there was a guy I knew who we all called 20 cents, you would be lucky to be 2cents on the dollar.

At first, I thought you were trolling, but shit, it's actually because you are just rather dim.
how many times do I need to type it, so you realize I was using your own il conceived and rather pathetic example and taking it to its highly illogical conclusion.
(personally, I am picking a few more times.)
The only incriminating evidence on the other page. Is that you are just not that smart. Plus are prone to make false allegations.
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348059

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[R650R]

You're not the full quid bro.......
there was a guy I knew who we all called 20 cents, you would be lucky to be 2cents on the dollar.

Thanks for all the red reps, all five of them, your the only person since feb 2018...
Lots of greens from like minded people outweigh your reds tho lol

[husaberg]

Thanks for all the red reps, all five of them, your the only person since feb 2018...
Lots of greens from like minded people outweigh your reds tho lol

You're welcome, keep posting the same idiotic and baseless allegations and you can look forward to many more.


At first, I thought you were trolling, but shit, it's actually because you are just rather dim.
how many times do I need to type it, so you realize I was using your own il conceived and rather pathetic example and taking it to its highly illogical conclusion.
(personally, I am picking a few more times.)
The only incriminating evidence on the other page. Is that you are just not that smart. Plus are prone to make false allegations.
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[F5 Dave]

That's because there will be very poor turnout in NZ 30deg summer even by the most virtue signalling branch covidian Karen's out there.
They need to wait till July next year when the next pre booked out break is scheduled and the winter flu season will cover off the false positives.
Dehydration and summer alcohol intake will amplify adverse reactions, too many people will get sick from the jab so it would be disaster for govt
Not because, you know? It's not been manufactured yet. Obviously.

But jesus man. Is there anything that isn't a conspiracy to you? Your life must be a scary distrustful place.

[Drew]

Thanks for all the red reps, all five of them, your the only person since feb 2018...
Lots of greens from like minded people outweigh your reds tho lol

Are you fucking retarded?

What Husa was trying to do with his original ALTERED quote, was illustrate that the text was easily manipulated to represent the exact opposite position.

So shut the fuck up, you special needs, velcro shoes, banjo strumming , cousin fucking IDIOT.

[R650R]

Are you fucking retarded?

What Husa was trying to do with his original ALTERED quote, was illustrate that the text was easily manipulated to represent the exact opposite position.

So shut the fuck up, you special needs, velcro shoes, banjo strumming , cousin fucking IDIOT.

Good morning gorgeous, you and Husberg should launch a line of children’s books with that creative writing skill.

[R650R]

Not because, you know? It's not been manufactured yet. Obviously.

But jesus man. Is there anything that isn't a conspiracy to you? Your life must be a scary distrustful place.

That’s not really in the realm of what covers modern “conspiracy” stuff, whether it’s tbe road toll, gang violence, education system the govt of the day routinely manipulated policy to use fear to keep us all on check.

I don’t live in fear, I do live aware of my surroundings, aware of history and aware of what the people in charge of the world STATE they want.....

[R650R]

😂😂😂😂😂

How’s those friction burns going? Your keyboard must be busy repping the rest of the forum to dish four reds in a row to me.

Not that it matters I just find it peculiar like watching David Attenborough observe the behaviour of some obscure animal species 😂😂😂😂😂

[R650R]

Interesting cut and paste from m another site.

Usual disclaimer I don't necessarily agree or disagree with all, any or part thereof this persons comments....

"CORONA VAX CREATING HIGH NUMBERS OF SEVERE ADVERSE REACTIONS

1,200 times higher than the usual number of reported adverse reactions to be exact.

Maybe the numbers the CDC is reporting are real, but maybe not. That said, they are high anyway, with over 3 percent of vaccinations getting reported for bad side effects.

Three percent does not sound like a lot, until you consider The link is legit. It is a source used by the CDC.
Here is the summary of what is at the link: About 25 percent of vaccines cause an adverse reaction (a number that is known via survey, stats, and medical observation). These can be mild reactions up to severe. Of that 25 percent, one percent gets reported. The reason is because everyday people do not know who to report adverse reactions to, and the fact that doctors tend to be extremely uncooperative with patients and adverse vaccine reactions, so they don't report it either.

So let's math this out:

25 percent of people have an adverse reaction to vaccines in one form or another. Of that 25 percent, only 1 percent gets a report in. So adverse reactions to vaccines are subsequently recorded at a rate of 0.0025% on average, for all vaccines across the board. This is basically how the report, which is an official source, sums it up. I'll put that differently so this is very clear:
It is known that 25 percent of vaccinations have an adverse reaction, ranging from mild to severe. That's 25 out of 100 people. (0.25) Out of that 25 people, there is only a 25 percent chance that ONE (1) of those people will report something bad happened. One percent of .25 is 0.0025. Take .25 on a calculator and multiply it by 1 percent.

If the corona vax gets a 3 percent adverse reaction reporting rate, you have to turn that 0.0025 into a 0.003 and then shift it to the left THREE WHOLE DIGITS. The reactions must be severe enough for people to report at a far higher rate than usual, 3 percent of ALL RECIPIENTS, rather than 1 percent of "adverse reactions" reported means the coronavax has to be about 1,200 times as bad as other vaccines.

I'd like to ask a question here -

If LOTS of people get wiped out by the flu shot, and only 1 percent of 25 percent report it, how freaking bad does the Corona vax have to be to get THREE WHOLE PERCENT of the population to report it? Obviously bad enough to have LOTS of people dropping dead, just like nurse Tiffany Dover who fell out live on TV, with no updates to her condition other than a possible hoax obituary, and obvious trolls saying she's OK. Maybe Snopes debunked it too, and who would trust the MSM other than an intellectual drooler?

Here is the official MSM cover story for her passing out:

"After recovering from fainting, she explained that she has a condition calledVasovagal Syncope, which makes her faint whenever she feels pain, sees needles, feels intense heat, stands for too long or is dehydrated. She did not explain why she volunteered to get the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine live on TV despite her condition.
HERE IS MY RESPONSE TO THAT:

If you want to play the public, BAFFLE THEM WITH BULLSHIT and then put a BIG NAME on it. Oh gosh, she has "Vasovagal Syncope". GET THIS: THE HEAD NURSE, THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE AT A MAJOR HOSPITAL, HAS A CONDITION THAT CAUSES HER TO FAINT WHEN SHE SEES NEEDLES.

THAT'S RIGHT: THE HEAD NURSE FAINTS WHEN SHE SEES NEEDLES. THAT'S THE MOST F***ED UP LIE THEY COULD HAVE EVER TOLD TO COVER UP THIS OBVIOUS DEATH.

They claim she went on air explaining this afterward, only she did not. No such video exists anywhere and you can safely bet they'd blow it to the moon if it did exist. They'd be desperate to do ANYTHING, including film her in a hospital bed to prove she's not dead, because they admitted beforehand this vaccine could put people in bed (so they are covered by that) yet there is NOTHING. They just expect you to believe Snopes and endless TEXT BASED denials. Let's see her out jogging with today's paper.
Alinsky tactic: Cover up a lie by re-enforcing it with BIG WORDS. "Vasovagal Syncope" would fit that bill!"

[F5 Dave]

Did you realise NASA have been projecting an image of the moon from a satellite since the 60s?

[Oakie]

Interesting cut and paste from m another site.

Usual disclaimer I don't necessarily agree or disagree with all, any or part thereof this persons comments....

"CORONA VAX CREATING HIGH NUMBERS OF SEVERE ADVERSE REACTIONS

OK. Couple of things. Right through this it does not say what the 'serious' adverse reactions are. Itchy arm, sore arm, fever, feeling unwell ... anaphylactic shock? When a jab is given you wait 20 minutes to make sure there is no serious immediate adverse reaction like anaphylactic shock so I'd imagine the 'serious' reactions are somewhat less than that. Be really useful to know what the authors classed as a serious reaction.

I'd take issue with that 1% of people suffering an adverse reaction reporting it. To be able to know that you must know how many people suffered a reaction in the first place but you can't because it wasn't reported. Having said that though, in my previous job I arranged flu vaccinations for staff and i guess over the few years i did it we would have had 150 people vaccinated and one reported an adverse reaction. (her arm was a bit sore for a day). Again though, this ties back to the severity of the reaction and i guess in most cases they were reactions that the person would have been advised is possible so they wouldn't necessarily report it.

Oh ok. One more. 3% reporting vs 1% reporting. I'd put that down to people being a bit more sensitive to a new vaccination for a killer disease and being more willing to report adverse reactions.

[RDJ]

And on the gripping hand...

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=On%20The%20Gripping%20Hand

...tincture of time will prove what actually happened.

[Berries]

On one hand, we know nothing about the vaccine and its possible side effects and consequences. So, there is no surprise, a lot of people are suspicious about getting it.
Personally I am dubious due to the speed that this vaccine has been rolled out. Would be good to watch the potential adverse reactions first. When I said this to my family in the UK I was slammed. Certain rellies have not been off their property since March. Getting a date for the vaccination is more than winning Lotto to them.

The worldwide pandemic is meaningless to most of us in NZ. We might go in to a shop and see a QR code on the door but we aren't living it every minute of every hour of every day.

We will when it gets back in around Easter, but I am good for bog roll for 2021.:wings:

[F5 Dave]

Meh, we converted to a poostick before the first lockdown. For spiritual reasons. :devil2:

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/124269986/covid19-nearly-a-quarter-of-kiwis-unlikely-to-take-coronavirus-vaccine-ministry-of-health-research-shows

Wow 25%.... and given they most people will be wary about expressing true feelings in surveys for fear of being labelled different etc, you could add another 5-10%....

Even people at work who totally buy the govt storyline and question nothing are hesitant about taking a vacccine that has not gone through usual level of testing.

Could it be that there are that many clear examples in community now of vaccine damaged kids that people are starting to question narrative????

Very interesting...

[F5 Dave]

Could it be that they will get Double Autism?

Or worse. Could it be that there will be more carrot tops?

Could it be that some will be born without a sense of critical thinking?

I'm just saying that the government will be trying to hide this.
Probably so they can repossess the privately owned businesses and standardize all worker wages.

Pass it on.

[husaberg]

Could it be that they will get Double Autism?

Or worse. Could it be that there will be more carrot tops?

Could it be that some will be born without a sense of critical thinking?

I'm just saying that the government will be trying to hide this.
Probably so they can repossess the privately owned businesses and standardize all worker wages.

Pass it on.


Anecdotally it seems not having vaccines leads to increased levels of paranoia........:msn-wink:

[Drew]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/124269986/covid19-nearly-a-quarter-of-kiwis-unlikely-to-take-coronavirus-vaccine-ministry-of-health-research-shows

Wow 25%.... and given they most people will be wary about expressing true feelings in surveys for fear of being labelled different etc, you could add another 5-10%....

Even people at work who totally buy the govt storyline and question nothing are hesitant about taking a vacccine that has not gone through usual level of testing.

Could it be that there are that many clear examples in community now of vaccine damaged kids that people are starting to question narrative????

Very interesting...

Far more likely that the unsubstantiated bullshit spouted against vaccines, is having a negative impact on the numbers of people trusting them.

[SaferRides]

Far more likely that the unsubstantiated bullshit spouted against vaccines, is having a negative impact on the numbers of people trusting them.That is probably one of the most sensible comments I have read in this thread.

[mashman]

Far more likely that the unsubstantiated bullshit spouted against vaccines, is having a negative impact on the numbers of people trusting them.

And as per usual with anything new, people wait to see what happens with others before buying it. Once the program is under way and the results can be seen/heard by those people, the rest will soon buy into it no matter what the advertising (on both sides) says.

[R650R]

Far more likely that the unsubstantiated bullshit spouted against vaccines, is having a negative impact on the numbers of people trusting them.

ThereÂ’s lots of unsubstantiated bullshit spouted about HarleyÂ’s and Jap bikes but people still buy them, and WANT to buy them....
It takes a lot to change someoneÂ’s opinion these days, especially with the god like status bestowed upon medical profession by media that we are all exposed to from a young age and believe as absolute truth.
So why would so many people think opposite, maybe they seen real effects in family and friends over the years...

If vaccines work people who take them should not give a damn about people who donÂ’t as Darwin would take its course and ALL the unvaccinated people would rapidly die off from a swathe of diseases....

Our natural immune systems have protected us for thousands of years with no dress rehearsals needed. And you can bet the Chinese have been eating bats and god knows what else sincevtime began, maybe just maybe there is some nothing else triggering all our illnesses...
Modern western medicine practice is only about 150 years old and inside fromantibiotucs and trauma injury repairs seems quite unsuccessful in other areas....

Yet practically overnight we can have multiple different companies produce new vaccine in record time to the alledgrdly most deadly disease ever facing mankind...?????

We still canÂ’t produce consumer goods like cars and tvs without dangerous product recalls and failures yet we think we can piss about at a nano biological level injecting experimental stuff in peopleÂ’s bodies?????

[mashman]

If vaccines work people who take them should not give a damn about people who donÂ’t as Darwin would take its course and ALL the unvaccinated people would rapidly die off from a swathe of diseases....

They care about people who don't, because some vulnerable people can't be vaccinated and rely on the wider vaccination immunity of the population as a natural innoculation for their weaker immunity.

[F5 Dave]

What the fuck are you on? No one has said it was the most deadly disease. You just make shit up.

150 years? Closer to 90. Have you ever looked at the average life expectancy over that time frame? It isn't just a result of McDonald's and Yoga classes.
Seriously you can't underestimate the effects of medical advances, along with agriculture.

I've worked with engineers most of my working life. I understand that they are mostly smarter than me. I'd be deluded to think otherwise.

So why do lay people with no medical training think they know better than the top eggheads just because they have read some whackadoodle Internet thread posted by someone equally unqualified and deluded?

"I've done some research " is code for- My mates sisters hairdresser cured cancer with a particularly aggressive perm mixture and tint dye.

[TheDemonLord]

What the fuck are you on? No one has said it was the most deadly disease. You just make shit up.

150 years? Closer to 90. Have you ever looked at the average life expectancy over that time frame? It isn't just a result of McDonald's and Yoga classes.
Seriously you can't underestimate the effects of medical advances, along with agriculture.

I've worked with engineers most of my working life. I understand that they are mostly smarter than me. I'd be deluded to think otherwise.

So why do lay people with no medical training think they know better than the top eggheads just because they have read some whackadoodle Internet thread posted by someone equally unqualified and deluded?

"I've done some research " is code for- My mates sisters hairdresser cured cancer with a particularly aggressive perm mixture and tint dye.

However, Even very smart people can make mistakes, especially if they are rushing or they believe their own hype.

I'm waiting to see if there are any longterm effects from this Vaccine and since I'm in the low-risk category, I'm in no hurry.

[Drew]

Yet practically overnight we can have multiple different companies produce new vaccine in record time to the alledgrdly most deadly disease ever facing mankind...?????

We still canÂ’t produce consumer goods like cars and tvs without dangerous product recalls and failures yet we think we can piss about at a nano biological level injecting experimental stuff in peopleÂ’s bodies?????

Cars and televisions are built to a price for a start. They're also not worked on with shared knowledge and test data.
Your comparison is piss poor.

[mashman]

People aren't quite as stupid as you think Dave. Some of them are so smart they can turn their mind to anything they choose instead of becoming so myopic that they have to turn to the freethinkers in order to find solutions to keep them in a job. It's almost as though doing some research actually pays off.

23 Uneducated People Who Changed The Course Of Humanity (https://www.storypick.com/uneducated-inspirational-people/)

How online gamers are solving science's biggest problems. (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/25/online-gamers-solving-sciences-biggest-problems)

[R650R]

Cars and televisions are built to a price for a start. They're also not worked on with shared knowledge and test data.
Your comparison is piss poor.

Well it is all shared knowledge really as workers migrate amongst the various manufacturers. Most tv components are all off the shelf gear these days, some screen tech might be manufacturer specific but then they license tech to others as Chinese will only reverse engineer it for next years models anyway..,

If I got some investors together and cobbled together a vaccine start up tommorow you’d worship me like a god and not even look or question my credentials.
Actually I’m surprised fluff news hasn’t featured some nz University Kickstarter project with a miracle cure yet

[R650R]

What the fuck are you on? No one has said it was the most deadly disease. e.

No I just quote mainstream media...
We just CLOSED the entire fkn WORLD, smashed the tourism industry to smithereens, were told Billions would die If we didn’t close small businesses.
We didn’t even allow FAMILY to be with their DYING LOVED ones as they passed as it was SO deadly.

Dial back a free years to Ebola outbreak... now that shit is scary. Just remember the PPE those people were wearing when they offloaded that American nurse into ambo from plane. Maybe you are right it’s NOT the deadliest disease, hang on are you agreeing with the conspiracy crowd now cause ain’t that what we been saying going by the maths???! Checkmate ;)

[R650R]

They care about people who don't, because some vulnerable people can't be vaccinated and rely on the wider vaccination immunity of the population as a natural innoculation for their weaker immunity.

Well the vulnerable people can just stay away and live a more sheltered life then. As even if we ALL took the shot a good 30% of us won’t be immune. Even the experts are saying the vax might not stop you be a transmission vector either.
But just look st the measles outbreaks... ever noticed it’s always the parents of the vaccinated kids blaming the unvaxxed for giving their protected kid the measles.
Why is their NEVER a bunch of parents of unvaxxed kids with measles saying they regret not giving them the shot. God imagine the cover photo fluff news could have with a bunch of smug vax Ed parents in background....

[Kickaha]

Our natural immune systems have protected us for thousands of years with no dress rehearsals needed.

Do the Spanish Flu and Bubonic plague just to mention a couple ring any bells with you ? Because natural immune systems did fuck all



Dial back a free years to Ebola outbreak... now that shit is scary.

Ebola isn't that scary because it is a lot harder to catch

[pete376403]

s... ever noticed it’s always the parents of the vaccinated kids blaming the unvaxxed for giving their protected kid the measles.
Why is their NEVER a bunch of parents of unvaxxed kids with measles saying they regret not giving them the shot. God imagine the cover photo fluff news could have with a bunch of smug vax Ed parents in background....

Is it the protected kids getting the measles? Or is it more the unvaxxed kids getting it, and their anti-vaxxer parents blaming everyone else for not having built up enough herd immunity to prevent it being passed on

[mashman]

Well the vulnerable people can just stay away and live a more sheltered life then. As even if we ALL took the shot a good 30% of us wonÂ’t be immune. Even the experts are saying the vax might not stop you be a transmission vector either.
But just look st the measles outbreaks... ever noticed itÂ’s always the parents of the vaccinated kids blaming the unvaxxed for giving their protected kid the measles.
Why is their NEVER a bunch of parents of unvaxxed kids with measles saying they regret not giving them the shot. God imagine the cover photo fluff news could have with a bunch of smug vax Ed parents in background....

They could indeed, but for some reason that greater good isn't considered humane. The homeless can get fucked if they want housing though... anyhoo, there are no guarantees of anything, coz legal protection... and to be honest if we're going to end up with variant upon variant upon variant floating around and someone with variant X can rock up from Country A and kill us coz we ain't covered for that one, then what's the point in having a vaccine that's likely going to be "out of date" or "useless" against other strains? I guess those who travel currently get shots for destinations and the potential bugs within, so I can only assume that regional shots for travelers will be offered so that the covis passport can contain something other than a single test result ;). Tis all kind of silly in far too many ways, let alone that the farmaboyz are still competing in a time of pandemic.

[F5 Dave]

No I just quote mainstream media...
We just CLOSED the entire fkn WORLD, smashed the tourism industry to smithereens, were told Billions would die If we didn’t close small businesses.
We didn’t even allow FAMILY to be with their DYING LOVED ones as they passed as it was SO deadly.

Dial back a free years to Ebola outbreak... now that shit is scary. Just remember the PPE those people were wearing when they offloaded that American nurse into ambo from plane. Maybe you are right it’s NOT the deadliest disease, hang on are you agreeing with the conspiracy crowd now cause ain’t that what we been saying going by the maths???! Checkmate ;)
A duh. The tourism market would have been worse fucked with rampant covid as 3 weeks out the overseas tourism would have dried up. AND the local market as well. How are you not comprehending that?

And no I wasn't agreeing with the conspiracy crowd.

Even slightly.

Um. . Bingo?

[husaberg]

They care about people who don't, because some vulnerable people can't be vaccinated and rely on the wider vaccination immunity of the population as a natural innoculation for their weaker immunity.
Close, but no, but what widespread vaccination does is it offers fewer potential people to pass on the disease as posible vector hosts to the unvaccinated people it limits slows or at best eliminates the spread this way.

Is it the protected kids getting the measles? Or is it more the unvaxxed kids getting it,
In cases yes, the vaccinations generally are not 100% and do not in most cases offer lifetime protection nor are the 100% (nothing is). but the idea of widespread vaccination is to limit the un-vaccinatable ones getting it also.
The more unvaccinated people the more potential reservoir hosts we have to harbour and spread the disease, we can eliminate diseases or seriously limit their ability to spread when limiting their ability to have people infected and thus be passed on to other susceptible people.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETZt8ghXkAUW9zy.jpg
https://pulmonarychronicles.com/index.php/pulmonarychronicles/article/download/749/1623/4079

[R650R]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1402523/angela-Merkel-news-Oxford-Covid-vaccine-AstraZeneca-latest-EU-rollout-Germany

[Oakie]

Got asked at work yesterday if I wanted the normal winter flu vaccination. "Yep, sure" as always.

Then I got to wondering with the border pretty much closed and most of the population being so damned careful, what chance does seaonal flu even have of doing damage this year? Could probably get by without the vaccination this year.

I'll still get it done though.

[TheDemonLord]

Got asked at work yesterday if I wanted the normal winter flu vaccination. "Yep, sure" as always.

Then I got to wondering with the border pretty much closed and most of the population being so damned careful, what chance does seaonal flu even have of doing damage this year? Could probably get by without the vaccination this year.

I'll still get it done though.

That will be very interesting to see actually - what happens this year with seasonal plagues - could make for several case studies.

[Oakie]

That will be very interesting to see actually - what happens this year with seasonal plagues - could make for several case studies.

The part that interests me especially is that we'll be able to compare apples with apples in respect of the infection values of seasonal flu vs Covid. Denyers(?) have wailed about Covid having a lower incidence of infection than seasonal flu but the seasonal flu figures they quote are from previous normal years while the Covid are from the current times with the strong controls in place. It'll be interesting to compare seasonal vs Covid rates of infection in the same control environment.

[mashman]

Did vaccines really save the world? (https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2020/6/19/vaccinessavetheworld)

It's a long read, but you should read it. The quotes below give a basic idea of the subject matter, but they are nowhere near the entire context of this fucking good read.

"In plain English: of the total decline in mortality since 1900, that 74% number I keep mentioning, vaccines (and other medical interventions like antibiotics) were responsible for somewhere between 1% and 3.5% of that decline. Said differently, at least 96.5% of the decline (and likely more than that since their numbers included ALL medical interventions, not ONLY vaccines) had nothing to do with vaccines."

"In 1970, Dr. Kass raised the idea that public health officials need to be careful to not give the wrong things credit for the twentieth century’s massive mortality rate decline in the developed world. In 1977, Drs. McKinlay & McKinlay put data around Dr. Kass’ ideas, and showed that vaccines (and other medical interventions) were responsible for between 1-3.5% of the total decline in mortality since 1900. In 2000, CDC scientists reconfirmed all this data, but also provided more insight into the things that actually have led to declines in mortality."

"The study went on to explain the things that actually were responsible for a massive decline in mortality:
“water treatment, food safety, organized solid waste disposal, and public education about hygienic practices.” Also, “improvements in crowding in US cities” played a major role. Clean water. Safe food. Nutrition. Plumbing. Hygiene. These were the primary reasons mortality declined so precipitously. At least according to the data and published science."

"As McKinlay and McKinlay warned, if the wrong intervention (like vaccines) is singled out as the reason Americans and the rest of the first world experienced such a dramatic decrease in mortality in the 20th century, that misinformation can be abused to do things like:"

... and then a few bullet points of all too familiar unpleasant truths are listed. The warnings and evidence are there that we are, still, being lied to (half-truths are lies were science is supposed to be concerned) and embracing those lies as fact.

[R650R]

My opinion is vaccination is essential today. A lot of awful diseases/pandemics were stopped thanks to vaccination. And this one is no exception (I hope). Currently, people are getting boosters. I'm going to get a Pfizer one as according to Canadian pharmacy (https://www.canadapharmacy.com/), this booster is identical to the regular Pfizer vaccine. As I didn't have any side effects except for the arm sore after two shots, I decided that it will be a wise choice. Did you get a booster? If no, are you going to?

You say it like it’s a choice... once the new electronic pass thingy take some off they will incorporate an update so your original vax expires after say seven-eight months. You WILL then HAVE to get the booster to participate in society. This is for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.
It’s the bill gates business success model, you don’t own any product or software anymore, you lease a temporary right to use something.
Taxpayers are footing the bill for this FOREVER....

[pritch]

You say it like it’s a choice... once the new electronic pass thingy take some off they will incorporate an update so your original vax expires after say seven-eight months. You WILL then HAVE to get the booster to participate in society. This is for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.
It’s the bill gates business success model, you don’t own any product or software anymore, you lease a temporary right to use something.
Taxpayers are footing the bill for this FOREVER....

Where have you been? The "electronic pass thingy" has been available for a week or so. Mine has an expiry date nine months after my last jab. The app that reads the phone is due to be rolled out imminently. Meanwhile business owners will just have to read the screen

The less I have to do with Bill Gates' products the better.

Taxpayers footing the bill for a jab will surely be waaay cheaper than filling the hospitals with COVID patients. Sounds like a bargain.

For a glimpse of the future try Germany's Minister of Health who, as cases rise again said, by spring everybody will be vaccinated, recovered, or dead.

[FJRider]

... You WILL then HAVE to get the booster to participate in society. This is for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.

We're all (supposedly) Motorcyclists ... We're not expected to live long anyway ... :blank:


Taxpayers are footing the bill for this FOREVER....

Be sure to vote for change in the next election ... if you don't like the way the Government is doing "Stuff" now ... :blank:

[FJRider]

That will be very interesting to see actually - what happens this year with seasonal plagues - could make for several case studies.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

[husaberg]

Where have you been? The "electronic pass thingy" has been available for a week or so. Mine has an expiry date nine months after my last jab. The app that reads the phone is due to be rolled out imminently. Meanwhile business owners will just have to read the screen

The less I have to do with Bill Gates' products the better.

Taxpayers footing the bill for a jab will surely be waaay cheaper than filling the hospitals with COVID patients. Sounds like a bargain.

For a glimpse of the future try Germany's Minister of Health who, as cases rise again said, by spring everybody will be vaccinated, recovered, or dead.
R650R has no medical or scientific training yet claims to know better tnan doctors or scientists. It also seems he has no ability not to read peer reviewed material he seems to prefer information gleaned from fringe conspiracy websites which he holds to being 1000% correct.
Its either that or he is a troll trying to compensate for his lack of success and tiny pecker. I say both.

[pete376403]

We're all (supposedly) Motorcyclists ... We're not expected to live long anyway ... :blank:



Be sure to vote for change in the next election ... if you don't like the way the Government is doing "Stuff" now ... :blank:


if you don't like the way the Government is doing "Stuff" now, you're sure not going to like it if National gets in with Act wagging the dog.

[HenryDorsetCase]

if you don't like the way the Government is doing "Stuff" now, you're sure not going to like it if National gets in with Act wagging the dog.

Prime Minister Rimmer (sorry David) and his merry band of lunatics together with whatever has beens, never beens and also-rans the neshnuls can cobble together? LOLZ good luck with that.

[R650R]

The less I have to do with Bill Gates' products the better.

Taxpayers footing the bill for a jab will surely be waaay cheaper than filling the hospitals with COVID patients. Sounds like a bargain.
.

Sadly your out of luck. Several years prior to season one of Covid (Tm) (C) bill suddenly got out of the computer game and announced vaccines are the future for him....

Yes in short term maybe but the psychosis of fear engendered in public means it will never end so even once it seems gone no politician will want to say hey we don’t need it anymore.
By then Jacinda will be CEO at Pfizel pacific and needingbto return profits to shareholders

[R650R]

We're all (supposedly) Motorcyclists ... We're not expected to live long anyway ... :blank:



Be sure to vote for change in the next election ... if you don't like the way the Government is doing "Stuff" now ... :blank:

Won’t that be interesting...

[TheDemonLord]

if you don't like the way the Government is doing "Stuff" now, you're sure not going to like it if National gets in with Act wagging the dog.

Well, so far David Seymour has consistently made policy decisions based on English Liberalism.

If you are worried about a society that upholds these ideals, I wonder what that says...

[TheDemonLord]

Prime Minister Rimmer (sorry David) and his merry band of lunatics together with whatever has beens, never beens and also-rans the neshnuls can cobble together? LOLZ good luck with that.

I mean, the same could very easily be said of Labour and the Greens....



















In fact, very much worse IS said of Labour and the Greens.

[pete376403]

Well, so far David Seymour has consistently made policy decisions based on English Liberalism.

If you are worried about a society that upholds these ideals, I wonder what that says...

If "English Liberalism" is another way of saying "every man for himself" - yes that does worry me.

[TheDemonLord]

If "English Liberalism" is another way of saying "every man for himself" - yes that does worry me.

And why is that?

See, the characterization of a society where the Individual is sovereign as 'Every Man for Himself' is often made by those who wish to advance a collectivist alternative (X group vs Y group), and history has shown how well that ends up.

It also omits one key factor of the English Liberal philosophy: That every man is free to live their life as they see fit and that the State is responsible for protecting your Natural Rights.

Most of our Laws (well, the good ones anyway...) are rooted in your Natural Rights - so a properly functioning English Liberal state is one that allows you the maximum freedom to do as you wish, whilst making sure you cannot interfere with others.

So I'll ask - what exactly about that are you worried about?

[FJRider]

Won’t that be interesting...

I'm betting (literally )on a landslide RE-Election.

Won't THAT be interesting ... :blank:

[FJRider]

if you don't like the way the Government is doing "Stuff" now ...

National hasn't got anybody the NZ voting public WANT or SEE as a potential Prime Minister.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Have we learned anything yet? Or are we all still bent on playing dumb zero sum games.

[Berries]

Batman Episode 24. The Riddler.

[Laava]

Meat and three veg.

[flyingcrocodile46]

https://rumble.com/v3k478g-dr.-david-martin-exposes-the-whos-global-genocide.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&ep=1

[flyingcrocodile46]

The 10% who refused the vaccine are the only people (remaining kiwis) intelligent enough to be trusted to vote wisely. The rest of you are genetically compromised Dodos who readily abdicated the responsibility to make adult decisions. Vote to investigate the scamdemic or STFU.

Look at the facts presented by Dr David Martin. COLD HARD FACTUAL TRUTH. Learn or die.


https://rumble.com/v3k478g-dr.-david...dgip3&ep=1 (https://rumble.com/v3k478g-dr.-david-martin-exposes-the-whos-global-genocide.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&ep=1)

[caseye]

Croc ewe ol Reprobater you!
Africa Twin is the new Bandit!
:bleh::bleh:

[R650R]

The 10% who refused the vaccine are the only people (remaining kiwis) intelligent enough to be trusted to vote wisely. The rest of you are genetically compromised Dodos who readily abdicated the responsibility to make adult decisions. Vote to investigate the scamdemic or STFU.

Look at the facts presented by Dr David Martin. COLD HARD FACTUAL TRUTH. Learn or die.


https://rumble.com/v3k478g-dr.-david...dgip3&ep=1 (https://rumble.com/v3k478g-dr.-david-martin-exposes-the-whos-global-genocide.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&ep=1)

Going by Poll numbers it seems the “ intelligent” people are more concerned about their wallets. The antivax party and others in that area aren’t getting 500,000 votes between them.
Although I was against being forced to take an untested (compared to normal medical standards) vax none of the claims of antivax extremists have been observed.
If people were randomly dropping dead we would see it in streets and large workplaces.
There would be a dramatic rise in road toll as people croaked while driving.
I routinely cut myself shaving and the “clot shot” hasn’t even lucid up to the hype there

[husaberg]

Going by Poll numbers it seems the “ intelligent” people are more concerned about their wallets. The antivax party and others in that area aren’t getting 500,000 votes between them.
Although I was against being forced to take an untested (compared to normal medical standards) vax none of the claims of antivax extremists have been observed.
If people were randomly dropping dead we would see it in streets and large workplaces.
There would be a dramatic rise in road toll as people croaked while driving.
I routinely cut myself shaving and the “clot shot” hasn’t even lucid up to the hype there


thats very intersting compared to your previous posts....


There’s two ways this pans out... the virus magically mostly disappears and we return to some form of normal rampant consumerism after being tattooed/implanted with bill gates digital ID2020 social/vaccine passport
Certificate
Of
Vaccination
I
D

Covid

Or this virus turns out to be as nasty as they say it is. Then we have at least three years living under full blown communism to control spread til it naturally mutates itself out of existence as all virus strains do. This will be a major worldwide depression and everyone will be off to workcamps in exchange for food as all western economies will be crippled by the early welfare dolled out to “keep the economy going”

One thing Is for sure either way, given the chance of a crisis govt will pass new laws and taxes to “save us”.... next election will be very interesting


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...

The media are tripping over themselves trying to solve the mystery of why Africans aren't dying from covid as badly as the west.
Africans routinely take a cheap safe anti malaria drug invented in n 1960's called hydroxychloroquine....
Scooby Doo would solve that puzzle faster

Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...

The Covid tracer app stops the spread of the virus just as effectively as mandatory carrying of drivers licence stops unlicensed drivers from driving cars.

It’s kinda pointless though really, Jacinda has just demonstrated how willing the govt is to plunge the country into draconian lockdowns again for a few cases...
Now if EVERYONE in the current outbreak had scanned the SAME amount of people would be infected, the virus doesn’t care if your Bluetooth is on or not.
The resulting lockdown would prob be worse as with two deg of separation in modern society it would prob show even more people at risk of infection spreading...

But I guess we’ll all find that out soon enough when they decree it mandatory to scan everywhere

[Drew]

Seeing some fucken hilarious shit on bookface. Apparently, big pharma are profiting from the vaccine injury treatments. Rather than the vaccines themselves.

[husaberg]

Seeing some fucken hilarious shit on bookface. Apparently, big pharma are profiting from the vaccine injury treatments. Rather than the vaccines themselves.

i hear Big pharma shot JFK and MLK and Tupac....

[Pursang]

i hear Big pharma shot JFK and MLK and Tupac....

.......also organized January 6th and paid the Biden crime family billions!!! Plus they framed Trump for his NY business fraud.

If you can't blame the Jews, the Migrants, the Liberals, the Unions, the Blacks, Hunter Biden or the 'Swamp', Big Pharma is the perfect Patsy ( & sometimes Straw Man!)

[husaberg]

.......also organized January 6th and paid the Biden crime family billions!!! Plus they framed Trump for his NY business fraud.

If you can't blame the Jews, the Migrants, the Liberals, the Unions, the Blacks, Hunter Biden or the 'Swamp', Big Pharma is the perfect Patsy ( & sometimes Straw Man!)

not to mention pizzagate crooked hillary's bengazi email servers and 911 alien space lasers....

[flyingcrocodile46]

NZ SUDDEN deaths out of control. Every 90 minutes someone is quite literally suddenly dropping dead.

Overall death rate in NZ increased by massive 21%

Gee I wonder why?

See copy of OIA response at link belowhttps://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904/photo/1

https://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904

https://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904

[Drew]

NZ SUDDEN deaths out of control. Every 90 minutes someone is quite literally suddenly dropping dead.

Overall death rate in NZ increased by massive 21%

Gee I wonder why?

See copy of OIA response at link belowhttps://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904/photo/1

https://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904

https://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904
Why is it then?

[Laava]

NZ SUDDEN deaths out of control. Every 90 minutes someone is quite literally suddenly dropping dead.

Overall death rate in NZ increased by massive 21%

Gee I wonder why?

See copy of OIA response at link belowhttps://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904/photo/1

https://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904

https://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1713316470548291904
Take a look at this.

[nerrrd]

I've had all five shots and so far no luck, haven't even gotten sick.

Maybe next year.

[Kickaha]

Why is it then?

As much as I think he's a nutbar and those numbers mean nothing without a comparison to previous years I think the excess deaths should be investigated , the NZ Govt and Medical professional has shown a disturbing lack of interest in both this and those affected adversely by the vaccine because it's "safe and effective"

Here's the latest I could find from ACC https://www.acc.co.nz/assets/oia-responses/covid-19-vaccination-claims-refresh-october-2023.pdf given the amount of vaccinations it would seem the claim rate is quite low but I'm pretty sure the amount of reported vax injury is considerbaly higher

Despite a cardiac specialist diagnosing a friend as vaccine injured and her being unable to work fulltime as a result ACC refused to pay out so fuck those cunts

Fuck knows where his 21% comes from

New Zealand has recorded the largest increase in the number of registered deaths since the 1918 influenza pandemic, new data from Stats NZ shows
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-zealand-records-biggest-increase-in-registered-deaths-in-100-years/BQERSTKIANCKRNNA7IL42RD52U/

In the year ended June 2023 compared with the year ended June 2022:

57,534 live births were registered, down from 60,009
38,346 deaths were registered, up from 36,723
natural increase (births minus deaths) was 19,185, down from 23,280
the total fertility rate was 1.61 births per woman, down from 1.69
the infant mortality rate was 3.49 deaths per 1,000 live births, down from 3.85.

https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/births-and-deaths-year-ended-june-2023/

[R650R]

As much as I think he's a nutbar and those numbers mean nothing without a comparison to previous years I think the excess deaths should be investigated , the NZ Govt and Medical professional has shown a disturbing lack of interest in both this and those affected adversely by the vaccine because it's "safe and effective"

Here's the latest I could find from ACC [/url]

The fact that the govt and media darent talk about it is very telling. They foolishly touted it as 100% safe when we know in modern Medici e there is always going to be side effects or bad batches and this product never had the right timeframe to be tested properly.

At the very least we should expect a higher death rate fron the consequences of lockdown. Lack of healthcare access in person for early diagnosis of normal medical problems/cancers etc. Health deterioration from lack of exercise and poor diet due to lockdowns.
We have an aging population in the west and particularly for those over 50 even a small amount of exercise (3hrs of brisk walking over two weeks) is strongly linked to longer lifespan.

And the fact we’ve never heard of annual mortality rates before tells you it rarely deviates at any level of significance.

But this will be like a mining company doing volantary testing waterways..

[Laava]

Fuck knows where his 21% comes from
If you take the 21, 2 plus 1 =3 so that is a more acceptable number.
Also, 1 and 2 are the first part of the Fibonacci sequence! You cant tell me that is just a coincidence!
Hope that brings some good common sense into the conversation.

[Moise]

It's really quite simple. Stats has even summarised it for us:

"The higher number of deaths in the June 2023 year reflects New Zealand’s ageing population, combined with more deaths in the September and December quarters in 2022, which were affected by the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic."

The graph in the Herald article shows the increase in death rates are all in the older age groups.

Funny thing is the 1,623 extra deaths is not that different to the number that the MoH, or whatever they're called now, were giving for "deaths with COVID", which was about 2000 per annum from memory.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

It's really quite simple. Stats has even summarised it for us:

"The higher number of deaths in the June 2023 year reflects New Zealand’s ageing population, combined with more deaths in the September and December quarters in 2022, which were affected by the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic."

The graph in the Herald article shows the increase in death rates are all in the older age groups.

Funny thing is the 1,623 extra deaths is not that different to the number that the MoH, or whatever they're called now, were giving for "deaths with COVID", which was about 2000 per annum from memory.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

then add in the fact that due to the covid restrictions we had a huge decrease in seasonal flu deaths.
These decrease are only delays in year of death in an aging population.

The StatsNZ measures, in conjunction with previous research, indicate that:

In 2020, the first year of the pandemic, the proportion of people that died in New Zealand dropped for reasons including a reduction in accident-related deaths and the closed borders greatly reducing influenza and other respiratory in New Zealand in 2020.
In 2021, the second year of the pandemic, the rate of deaths followed a similar pattern to that seen in 2019 prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, though deaths from COVID-19 were low.
In 2020 and 2021, the rate of deaths among people over-90-years-old, the population among the most at risk from COVID-19, remained the same or even lower than expected compared with most other countries. Again, this reflected the benefits of our COVID-19 response in reducing exposure to the virus and protecting our more vulnerable New Zealanders.

[nerrrd]

You mentioned the pandemic, but I think you’ll get away with it…

[Moise]

You mentioned the pandemic, but I think you’ll get away with it…Yeah, I don't think many people read this thread!

Here's another gem from the "safest vaccine in history" file. Pleased I ignored the advice to have these together!

Stroke Risk: The Covid vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna may be linked to a slight increase in the risk of stroke when administered along with a high-dose flu vaccine that is usually given to older people, according to a new analysis by the F.D.A.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[Laava]

You mentioned the pandemic, but I think you’ll get away with it…
Only if you've written your letter home and moved your clothes to the lower peg!

sorry, but this is not a conversation worthy of any seriousness…😀

[Laava]

Yeah, I don't think many people read this thread!

Here's another gem from the "safest vaccine in history" file. Pleased I ignored the advice to have these together!

Stroke Risk: The Covid vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna may be linked to a slight increase in the risk of stroke when administered along with a high-dose flu vaccine that is usually given to older people, according to a new analysis by the F.D.A.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk
So is the covid vaccine better for two strokes or four?

[Kickaha]

So is the covid vaccine better for two strokes or four?

It's a waste of time for either, it neither stops transmission or prevents you from getting it, as for lessening the symptoms there's a good Tui ad in there somewhere, unless you were elderly with other comorbidities the risk was very low of it ending in death, not to say there wouldn't be other side effects but people are getting those even after being vaccinated and having covid

[Grumph]

unless you were elderly with other comorbidities the risk was very low of it ending in death,

Careful, you're starting to resemble that description.

And it did kill a lot of people - and still is in some places.

[Moise]

And it can be a nasty illness even if you're healthy and not old. I know a couple of women in their 40s who have been very ill, one unvaccinated and the other fully vaxed. So there's a bit of luck in how it's going to affect you.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[F5 Dave]

Careful, you're starting to resemble that description.

And it did kill a lot of people - and still is in some places.



Yeah we should dug up some of those guys and tell them it didn't really happen.

[Kickaha]

Yeah we should dug up some of those guys and tell them it didn't really happen.

No one is saying it didn't happen, certain groups were more far more susceptible to a bad outcome than others though.

Out of 5007 deaths 4132 were 70+ and 3218 of them had both shots + a booster, 419 not fully vaccinated so either none or only 1 shot and the rest had 2 shots

Now some of those may not have been killed by covid and will be reclassified but they had tested positive in the previous 28 days before dying, out of those where covid was noted as the underlying cause of death,1926 out of 2164 dead were over 70

Those numbers were current as of 05/11/23

[husaberg]

No one is saying it didn't happen, certain groups were more far more susceptible to a bad outcome than others though.

Out of 5007 deaths 4132 were 70+ and 3218 of them had both shots + a booster, 419 not fully vaccinated so either none or only 1 shot and the rest had 2 shots

Now some of those may not have been killed by covid and will be reclassified but they had tested positive in the previous 28 days before dying, out of those where covid was noted as the underlying cause of death,1926 out of 2164 dead were over 70

Those numbers were current as of 05/11/23

And of those that were vaccinated and didnt die? or better still and far more relevant the real actual increased rate of death for the unvaccinated?


vaccination is one of the most effective steps people can take to reduce their risk of death from COVID-19. The analysis shows a 62% reduction in the risk of death from COVID-19 among people who had two or more doses compared to those who had received one dose or no doses.


CDC director Rochelle Walensky has said that 99.5 percent of all deaths from COVID-19 are in the unvaccinated.

Or the reduced surge having high rates of vaccination prevent?



I am afraid your supposition actually a reverse of logic
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7206a3.htm
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccinationhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95565-8

[flyingcrocodile46]

NZ whistle blower provided 25% of the data collected on NZs vaccinated and was concerned at the numerous clinic stats that conclusively prove 25% (one at 30%) of attendees to vaccine clinics have died less than 12 months after vaccination.

I advised to carefully weigh the risks against the benefits. We now all know the vaccines are worthless. 1. they don't prevent anyone from catching covid. 2. They don't prevent spreading covid (and nor do masks). 3. They do not reduce hospitalisation rates (in fact the opposite is true the more boosters you take).

Yet 95% of the country were so propagandised by the fear campaign they turned into pussies and decided it was a good idea to play Russian Roulette (despite there never been any evidence that it worked effectively).

Now industry 'gold standard' data (analysed by MIT professors) has been provided that show at least 20% of recipients of some vaccine batches are dying in the thousands (all age groups) and many healthy people just suddenly dropping dead without any warning... for pretty much zero win benefit.

I did warn you. Now who's the nutter eh!

https://nzdsos.com/2023/12/03/whistleblower-case-nzdsos-response/

https://nzdsos.com/2023/11/29/steve-kirsch-moh-offer/

https://nzdsos.com/2023/12/07/whistleblower-data-release/

Way to go everyone:not:

[husaberg]

NZ whistle blower provided 25% of the data collected on NZs vaccinated and was concerned at the numerous clinic stats that conclusively prove 25% (one at 30%) of attendees to vaccine clinics have died less than 12 months after vaccination.


Care to tell us what the clinics were, ie was it an oncology dementia clinic or pallitive care clinics perhaps?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Care to tell us what the clinics were, ie was it an oncology dementia clinic or pallitive care clinics perhaps?

Nope. They are specialist Vaccine stations or vaccine only clinics. Not palliative care or oncology etc. As I said, this is all age groups (not just the old or ill people) as your question appears to suggest. If you took the time to read the articles you wouldn't need to ask your misleading question.

Not answering any more of your pointless questions. I gave you the links, so you could do your own legwork.

Note that the govt have arrested him and they have confirmed that zero patient personal info was included (no breach of privacy). The govt spokespeople have not once suggested that the information is in any way inaccurate (but continue to recommend getting the 100% totally ineffective (except at killing people) vaccine.

[F5 Dave]

If your claims were true, we would be tripping over dead bodies. The population would have plummeted.

Did you not even give it the smell test?

So yes. You are the nutter.

[R650R]

NZ whistle blower provided 25% of the data collected on NZs vaccinated and was concerned at the numerous clinic stats that conclusively prove 25% (one at 30%) of attendees to vaccine clinics have died less than 12 months after vaccination.

er :

YouÂ’d think this dude would have got 100% of the data not 25% because otherwise itÂ’s like election night without the special votes.
Also itÂ’s died since that event not necessarily because of it. It would be the same probably if KFC was able to keep same records.
YouÂ’ve got to remember a batch means one of many prepared on any given day in any town. And early on a lot of vulnerable people or elderly etc would have been first to get it.
Some of the first groups would have been truckers/essential workers and nurses/doctors etc.
It wouldnÂ’t go unnoticed if people in these groups were dying in unnatural numbers.
I’m all for a good conspiracy but there’s nowhere near anough clear data to show a hint of anything. Even the small percentage of “excess” deaths internationally is prob more likely from the health effects of lockdown inactivity and poor diet during that time.
For example if someone over the age of 60falls and breaks their hip they have a 50% chance of dying during next 12 months due to health complications caused by lack of mobility.
I do think the govt and media have created a problem here with their over reaction and censorship but maybe that was the objective??? The solution is a digital ID and being permanently logged in to your devices so authorities can keep us safe from “ misinformation”

[husaberg]

Nope. They are specialist Vaccine stations or vaccine only clinics. Not palliative care or oncology etc. As I said, this is all age groups (not just the old or ill people) as your question appears to suggest. If you took the time to read the articles you wouldn't need to ask your misleading question.

Not answering any more of your pointless questions. I gave you the links, so you could do your own legwork.

Note that the govt have arrested him and they have confirmed that zero patient personal info was included (no breach of privacy). The govt spokespeople have not once suggested that the information is in any way inaccurate (but continue to recommend getting the 100% totally ineffective (except at killing people) vaccine.

yet from your link.

His data demonstrated very high mortality after injection, over 30% of recipients dead within a year of being ‘vaccinated’ by some mobile centres (presumably vaccinating into rest homes, which will have a greater annual mortality than the general population’s 0.75%).
You are an egg.

[Laava]

NZ whistle blower provided 25% of the data collected on NZs vaccinated and was concerned at the numerous clinic stats that conclusively prove 25% (one at 30%) of attendees to vaccine clinics have died less than 12 months after vaccination.

I advised to carefully weigh the risks against the benefits. We now all know the vaccines are worthless. 1. they don't prevent anyone from catching covid. 2. They don't prevent spreading covid (and nor do masks). 3. They do not reduce hospitalisation rates (in fact the opposite is true the more boosters you take).

Yet 95% of the country were so propagandised by the fear campaign they turned into pussies and decided it was a good idea to play Russian Roulette (despite there never been any evidence that it worked effectively).

Now industry 'gold standard' data (analysed by MIT professors) has been provided that show at least 20% of recipients of some vaccine batches are dying in the thousands (all age groups) and many healthy people just suddenly dropping dead without any warning... for pretty much zero win benefit.

I did warn you. Now who's the nutter eh!

https://nzdsos.com/2023/12/03/whistleblower-case-nzdsos-response/

https://nzdsos.com/2023/11/29/steve-kirsch-moh-offer/

https://nzdsos.com/2023/12/07/whistleblower-data-release/

Way to go everyone:not:
FFS, you must be fucking retarded. Have an adult/carer help you out with this lot.
The whistle blower is being prosecuted for illegally accessing this vaccine information and is using his lack of education to spread dangerous misinformation. Which you have swallowed hook line and sinker. Way to go yourself. Take yourself to the edge of the world and throw yourself over

[SaferRides]

One of the claims I have seen is 1 in 1,000 vaccinations resulted in death. That is about 13,000 deaths.

You'd think someone might have noticed.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[flyingcrocodile46]

:lol::lol::lol:
Final Batch of Pfizer Documents Released by FDA 800 Days After COVID Vaccine Approval
Now, independent scientists and researchers can see everything the FDA saw when it made its decision that this vaccine was "safe and effective."

https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/final-batch-of-pfizer-documents-released-showing-fda-knew-safety-monitoring-system-was-not-sufficient-5544925?src_src=goodeveningnoe&src_cmp=gv-2023-12-16&est=NwM3Tks1R%2FxcWQi6FAlNXc%2BZah8hFBaIC0vaTUIkYj LDdTWMymZHglHJX%2BUCQgM2oBfAZOaysw%3D%3D

[husaberg]

:lol::lol::lol:
Final Batch of Pfizer Documents Released by FDA 800 Days After COVID Vaccine Approval
Now, independent scientists and researchers can see everything the FDA saw when it made its decision that this vaccine was "safe and effective."

https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/final-batch-of-pfizer-documents-released-showing-fda-knew-safety-monitoring-system-was-not-sufficient-5544925?src_src=goodeveningnoe&src_cmp=gv-2023-12-16&est=NwM3Tks1R%2FxcWQi6FAlNXc%2BZah8hFBaIC0vaTUIkYj LDdTWMymZHglHJX%2BUCQgM2oBfAZOaysw%3D%3D

First we have the opublication
https://healthfeedback.org/outlet/the-epoch-times/
found to be at best misleading in its publications.

At worst its far worse

Since 2016, the Falun Gong-backed newspaper has used aggressive Facebook tactics and right-wing misinformation to create an anti-China, pro-Trump media empire.
The Epoch Times is published in 21 languages, in 33 countries and has a huge following among anti-vaxxers and the far Right.
The Epoch Times – an international media company founded in the US by followers of the Falun Gong religious sect.


The Epoch Times directed millions of dollars in advertising toward supporting President Donald Trump’s campaign and published dozens of articles parroting his lies about the election — resulting in huge growth to its audience and its coffers.
The strategy garnered criticism from fact-checking groups and got it banned from advertising on Facebook,
Its funded through aggressive online and real-world marketing campaigns and big-money conservative donors,



Then we have the author.
who is a traditional naturopath who refuse to vaccinate her kids on religious grounds
CHICAGO (CBS) -- Every fall, Megan Redshaw performs an unusual back to school ritual for her family. She fills out special paperwork, sits through doctors' visits and listens during informational sessions for each of her four school-aged children, all so they can attend school without their required vaccinations.

Redshaw is one thousands of parents across Illinois claiming religious objections to vaccines. From Chicago to Peoria to downstate Quincy where she lives, there are now nearly 20,000 children whose parents say their faith prohibits them from vaccinating their children — almost two times the number that sought religious exemptions a decade ago.

then we have you note what you have said previously.



You are so full of shit that you going over the same crap over and over. It's not the science when you falsify (balance without disclosure) the facts. It is just simple lies told to manipulate the gullible (that's you).

No need. It's just your comprehension that is out of whack.

Put a frog in hot water it will jump out to save it self, but put it in cold water and slowly bring it to the boil and it won't even register in the frogs head that it is in trouble. It will happily boil to death.

No matter how many times you whisper a warning in it's ear (via cranking up the temperature) the frog won't pay any attention. It will cook. May as well throw a hand grenade into the pot to try to wake the stupid fuckers up (like the shock of going from cold to hot in a big jump does). Maybe the blast will throw some of you out of the pot.


The typical response of the ignorant but ever denying sheeple.

When presented with solid factual evidence that the climate hoaxers (cLIEmate pseudo-scientists) have consistently fudged criteria of analysis and falsified factual data (re-balancing the scales) to suit the narrative of 'cLIEmate change/Global warming'. (Unpalatable evidence that suggests that the nipple they have so eagerly and innocently chugged on, is in fact a 'cock').

Rather than succumb to a loss of face for being a cock sucker, or even attempting to debate the evidence, they reject it out of hand (swallow the load) then attempt to make themselves feel better about the niggling aftertaste by playing the player instead of the ball.

As if casting aspersions on the players off field character somehow negates the fact that the player's adversary (the cock in your mouth) has consistently cheated and refused to wear protection multiple times and that the only line traversed by the adversary runs from your arse to your mouth.

Don't be ashamed. Chug with pride.

It's that comprehension thing getting in the way again, isn't it?

You appear to be either too stupid or dishonest to avoid misinterpreting his amusing himself (at your expense), with something completely nonsensical that you can use to launch yourself into another series of underwhelming pirouettes of meaningless drivel.

Well done you. No wonder you are so popular.
Squawk, 'where's your evidence' where's you evidence'. Christ! I have been through this many times. Idjits like yourself are full of questions when confronted by truth that they want to deny, yet never think to question the lies that they are comfortable with. It's just a time wasting exercise in futility to engage when the questioner (by his tone) is obviously just a wanker. I help people who are prepared to help themselves. You haven't even tried.

As you're big on denying truth until it is evidenced as fact (not withstanding your apparent hypocrisy in accepting as truth, the non-factual alternative conspiracy that is spun by your puppet leaders who shouldn't be), why don't you run along and find some evidence to disprove the statements made in the first video. Real evidence mind you, not some hokey bullshit statement of claimed fact that lacks any real basis in facts to support it. In case you are having trouble understanding what that means, it means that you can't quote the entirely baseless bullshit that your ilk so readily hoover up.

If that is too hard for you, go and find some real evidence that support the lies that you so readily swallow? If the shit you believe to be really true is really true, you won't have any trouble with that eh! :lol:

My 'Put up or shut up' challenge to you, is to either present;
(A) real evidence that the first video statements are lies, or
(B) real evidence that supports the significant majority of the contrary scenario spun by main stream media.
Then all those who witness your failure to present evidence will know who is full of shit eh!

No! don't be a ball less weasel and try to slither out of the challenge by feigning a low IQ and simply quoting news articles/headlines that don't contain actual evidence to support their claims (the type that you have already clearly rejected). As that would be the hypocritical action of a flacid cock with a bull horn.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah God is Great.

He created everything..

But Jesus taught that you didn't need to follow the Jewish teachings of ritual hand washing.
Seems he had a pretty poor understanding of germ theory. . . That he , by association created. . .

The Jews and Muslims did better than the Christ(baa)ians during the regular plagues that have infested humans.

That seems unfortunate.

Anyway FC, you've proven such an inaccurate source- why do you think anyone would listen to you? No point clicking that link. It's no longer about being open minded. Not any more.


You clearly are the Nutter.

There there. Poor dear.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I know that you will still deny the truth. It's called cognitive dissonance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PhYDcIP9qs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PhYDcIP9qs

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7PhYDcIP9qs?si=6jDG3-ZOy0jOU1VL" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[pete376403]

I know that you will still deny the truth. It's called cognitive dissonance

You oppose, so I guess you havent had the vaccinations - you are still alive

I have had all the vaccinations - I am still alive

Which of us is right?

[nerrrd]

You oppose, so I guess you havent had the vaccinations - you are still alive

I have had all the vaccinations - I am still alive

Which of us is right?

I also have had all the vaccinations, also still alive! Two against one!

[Berries]

I was up to date with my jabs but then I broke my arm so decided no more, not worth the risk.

[SaferRides]

I was up to date with my jabs but then I broke my arm so decided no more, not worth the risk.
I was out on the bike today and got hit by a bird on the left arm where I was vaccinated. That never happened before COVID, must be the vaccine!

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[husaberg]

I was out on the bike today and got hit by a bird on the left arm where I was vaccinated. That never happened before COVID, must be the vaccine!

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They say pigeons navigate with the earth's magnetic fields it could be the microchips in the vaccine.:lol:

[nerrrd]

I was out on the bike today and got hit by a bird on the left arm where I was vaccinated. That never happened before COVID, must be the vaccine!

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Clearly a drone attack (birds aren't real, didn't you know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real).

[SaferRides]

Clearly a drone attack (birds aren't real, didn't you know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real).It must have targeted the microchip. It all makes sense now as I have never hit a bird before.

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[Berries]

It all makes sense now as I have never hit a bird before.
Never been married then?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Breaking news.
John Beaudoin has uncovered a massive coverup at the CDC. The CDC is deleting Covid-19 vaccine deaths from its reporting data. Effectively hiding the fact that over 500,000 Americans died after taking the covid 19 vaccine.

https://rumble.com/v5dwc6l-500000-americans-have-been-killed-by-the-covid-vaccine-and-the-cdc-is-hidin.html

[husaberg]

Breaking news.
John Beaudoin has uncovered a massive coverup at the CDC. The CDC is deleting Covid-19 vaccine deaths from its reporting data. Effectively hiding the fact that over 500,000 Americans died after taking the covid 19 vaccine.

https://rumble.com/v5dwc6l-500000-americans-have-been-killed-by-the-covid-vaccine-and-the-cdc-is-hidin.html
Really
Everyone that was not vaccinated in 2021 for COVID will also die.:killingme
Already more than 500,000 un-vaccinated have died...

[SaferRides]

Breaking news.
John Beaudoin has uncovered a massive coverup at the CDC. The CDC is deleting Covid-19 vaccine deaths from its reporting data. Effectively hiding the fact that over 500,000 Americans died after taking the covid 19 vaccine.

https://rumble.com/v5dwc6l-500000-americans-have-been-killed-by-the-covid-vaccine-and-the-cdc-is-hidin.htmlThis is old fake news. People die after being vaccinated.

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[pritch]

This is old fake news. People die after being vaccinated.


Yeah I made the mistake of clicking on that bilge. The algorithm will think I'm interested in similar but I'm not.

[Laava]

Really
Everyone that was not vaccinated in 2021 for COVID will also die.:killingme
Already more than 500,000 un-vaccinated have died...
100% of them! See! Told ya!

[roogazza]

354973 xxxx

[F5 Dave]

Breaking news.
John Beaudoin has uncovered a massive coverup at the CDC. The CDC is deleting Covid-19 vaccine deaths from its reporting data. Effectively hiding the fact that over 500,000 Americans died after taking the covid 19 vaccine.

https://rumble.com/v5dwc6l-500000-americans-have-been-killed-by-the-covid-vaccine-and-the-cdc-is-hidin.html

You Stupid stupid cunt.

[Stylo]

:lol::lol::lol:
Final Batch of Pfizer Documents Released by FDA 800 Days After COVID Vaccine Approval
Now, independent scientists and researchers can see everything the FDA saw when it made its decision that this vaccine was "safe and effective."

https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/final-batch-of-pfizer-documents-released-showing-fda-knew-safety-monitoring-system-was-not-sufficient-5544925?src_src=goodeveningnoe&src_cmp=gv-2023-12-16&est=NwM3Tks1R%2FxcWQi6FAlNXc%2BZah8hFBaIC0vaTUIkYj LDdTWMymZHglHJX%2BUCQgM2oBfAZOaysw%3D%3D

I've had the vaccines. Every time. No problem.

And, I've never had COVID. Not once.

I don't listen to Fox news either. And Trump is living in another reality space. Sadly, there are a lot of people cuddling up next to him. And tuned in to the same channel.

[SaferRides]

[emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]
Final Batch of Pfizer Documents Released by FDA 800 Days After COVID Vaccine Approval
Now, independent scientists and researchers can see everything the FDA saw when it made its decision that this vaccine was "safe and effective."

https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/final-batch-of-pfizer-documents-released-showing-fda-knew-safety-monitoring-system-was-not-sufficient-5544925?src_src=goodeveningnoe&src_cmp=gv-2023-12-16&est=NwM3Tks1R%2FxcWQi6FAlNXc%2BZah8hFBaIC0vaTUIkYj LDdTWMymZHglHJX%2BUCQgM2oBfAZOaysw%3D%3DI missed this at the time, and even a year on, it appears that little analysis has been published.

I had 4 doses without any real drama apart from occasional tachycardia, but doubt that I will have another unless COVID changes for the worse.

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[TheDemonLord]

I had 4 doses without any real drama apart from occasional tachycardia,

I dunno, Tachycardia sounds like a real drama...

[SaferRides]

I dunno, Tachycardia sounds like a real drama...This one wasn't, the ECG looked normal but my heart rate went to about 100. Catching COVID didn't help, but it all seems OK now.

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[Stylo]

I dunno, Tachycardia sounds like a real drama...

Only if you're a conspiracy theorist.

To me, just a blip on the screen.

[Dean]

Only if you're a conspiracy theorist.

To me, just a blip on the screen.

The long term dire effects of the vaccine are yet to materialise.

But we have already seen some alarming results around the world.

This view is not specific to a political party alignment, and everything to do with exercising discernment about a collective of private healthcare companies that fast tracked a vaccine who traditionally value profit over cure. And the exploitation of basic liberty. That applies to any and all.

[pritch]

This view is not specific to a political party alignment, and everything to do with exercising discernment about a collective of private healthcare companies that fast tracked a vaccine who traditionally value profit over cure..

Either that or it was urgent because there was a world wide pandemic raging with millions of people dying.

[BMWST?]

Either that or it was urgent because there was a world wide pandemic raging with millions of people dying.

Dying from what? 60 million people die each year in any case

[Dean]

It is no secret that the private healthcare system, particularly in the US, value profit over cure. Or treating symptoms over prevention. Couple that with an open cheque book from world governments and a heightened sense of urgency that drove the lowering of the entry testing criteria - I would be worried about dire long term effects.

[onearmedbandit]

This thread sure gets the attention huh. Even more so than the Trump thread.

[Berries]

The long term dire effects of the vaccine are yet to materialise.
I guess you mean "the long term effects of the vaccine are yet to materialise." otherwise you are already buying into all this bollocks.


I would be worried about dire long term effects.
Fine. Nothing wrong with being worried about an unknown. I am guessing though that you didn't get vaccinated so not really sure what you are worried about.

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys. I can think of a lot more things that have the potential to bring my life to an end; the alpine fault giving way, the amount of plastic we ingest, running out of drinkable water, being eaten by a shark, high siding my bike coming out of my favourite left hander. Can't find the link but earlier today I was reading about the dangers of reusing plastic water bottles and the plastic tubs your take away curries come in. These are all real issues, life is too short to make up other ones to fret over.

The long term effects of life are dire. We are all going to die.

[SaferRides]

The long term dire effects of the vaccine are yet to materialise.

Probably because there aren't any. The short term effects weren't great for some people, but not nearly as bad as COVID could be.

Berries has got me a bit worried about reusing my Pump water bottles though...

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[Berries]

Berries has got me a bit worried about reusing my Pump water bottles though....
Yeah, could not find it in my history but the jist of it was that some recent research suggests that you should not actually reuse those items due to the minute amounts of leaching or deterioration of the plastic that seeps into the liquid you put into it. All this bottled water is a mugs game pushed by Coca Cola anyway. Why does anyone need to carry water around with them?

Hey, we're all fucked anyway, I would not worry about it too much.

[Stylo]

This thread sure gets the attention huh. Even more so than the Trump thread.


The Author ?

[pritch]

Dying from what? 60 million people die each year in any case

We were talking specifically about COVID. Try and keep up.

[SaferRides]

The Author ?Check the first post, it's was started in 2013.

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[onearmedbandit]

The Author ?

Nah the title, it'll be picked up by web crawlers.

[Berries]

There were 92 viewing the Trump thread at one point the other day.

[Dean]

I guess you mean "the long term effects of the vaccine are yet to materialise." otherwise you are already buying into all this bollocks.


Fine. Nothing wrong with being worried about an unknown. I am guessing though that you didn't get vaccinated so not really sure what you are worried about.

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys. I can think of a lot more things that have the potential to bring my life to an end; the alpine fault giving way, the amount of plastic we ingest, running out of drinkable water, being eaten by a shark, high siding my bike coming out of my favourite left hander. Can't find the link but earlier today I was reading about the dangers of reusing plastic water bottles and the plastic tubs your take away curries come in. These are all real issues, life is too short to make up other ones to fret over.

The long term effects of life are dire. We are all going to die.

We can agree to see what happens.
Watch this space!

Seriously - how did you feel about the COVID lockdown/restrictions. Were you ok that the government imposed that on you so swiftly? Multiple times. Complete control over your life. And would you be opposed to it happening again?

[Berries]

Seriously - how did you feel about the COVID lockdown/restrictions. Were you ok that the government imposed that on you so swiftly? Multiple times. Complete control over your life. And would you be opposed to it happening again?
To be honest I had a great lock down. I got to spend quality time with my family, ride quiet roads due to being essential to someone and eased myself into the working from home routine which I now do full time.

I missed my Friday lunchtime beers, but was willing to forgo that for a few weeks for the common good of not having people near and dear to me dropping down dead. And I used the time to get into gin anyway so no great loss.

Stockpiling now for the next one - poultry-farms-fuck-here-we-go-again (https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rural-life-other/no-known-connection-between-poultry-farms)

[SaferRides]

Stockpiling now for the next one - poultry-farms-fuck-here-we-go-again (https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rural-life-other/no-known-connection-between-poultry-farms)
Eggs?

It was just a matter of time after it arrived in Australia. It's not going to be fun for the poultry industry.

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[F5 Dave]

Viruses are not considered living. They have no brain. Their modus operandi is pretty simple. The question is; are they smarter than humans?

We can either use our collective wisdom to organise ourselves to be less vulnerable. Or we can prattle on about civil liberties and the gummermint.

[pritch]

To be honest I had a great lock down. [/U]

Yeah, lockdown at my place wasn't much different to normal. There's a big section, a tree, and a riverbank. Some had it tough though. A musician I used to see on Twitter lived in an upstairs apartment. He was basically locked in a couple of rooms with his income stopped completely. Imagine being stuck in an upstairs apartment with kids. Still, even that would be better than dying slowly as you struggle in vain to suck in some air. COVID was not a pleasant way to die.

[SaferRides]

To be honest I had a great lock down. I got to spend quality time with my family, ride quiet roads due to being essential to someone and eased myself into the working from home routine which I now do full time.

Nice, but not all of us had that experience in 2020.

The Great Auckland Lockdown of 2021 was a bit more fun, though. Had some epic rides on almost deserted back roads.



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[Dean]

To be honest I had a great lock down. I got to spend quality time with my family, ride quiet roads due to being essential to someone and eased myself into the working from home routine which I now do full time.

I missed my Friday lunchtime beers, but was willing to forgo that for a few weeks for the common good of not having people near and dear to me dropping down dead. And I used the time to get into gin anyway so no great loss.

Stockpiling now for the next one - poultry-farms-fuck-here-we-go-again (https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rural-life-other/no-known-connection-between-poultry-farms)

Fair enough, although missing Friday beers - how on earth did you give that up???

Remember though many did not share the same experience as you. Some could not attend funerals of loved ones, see loved ones for special events (weddings etc), see loved ones in hospital such as when giving birth or in terminal care. Some lost their jobs. Some lost their minds. The list goes on…

Let’s not forget the Nazi germany experience of “show me your papers”. Couldn’t go anywhere or do anything without that vaccination card. Despite the fact everyone should have an intrinsic right to object to what they put in their body.

My irk here lies in the principle, that our basic human right (freedom) was stripped from us so easily.
And because they were so successful in doing so - it will happen again for events causing much less risk than COVID - give an inch take a mile…

Time will tell.

Anywho, I am off to my Thursday beers!

[onearmedbandit]

Couldn’t go anywhere or do anything without that vaccination card.

Hmmm I definitely don't remember that part of the Covid experience.

[F5 Dave]

Score another point to the virus.

It's easy to kick our arses when the gene pool is so cloudy.

[husaberg]

Score another point to the virus.

It's easy to kick our arses when the gene pool is so cloudy.

Or shallow... imagine the remorse it would feel at having to high-jack such lowly DNA

[F5 Dave]

Oh , but the vaccine changed our DNA anyway. Turned me into a Newt.

[SaferRides]

Hmmm I definitely don't remember that part of the Covid experience.

Good luck getting into a pub or having a meal out without the app. Or staying in a camping ground... It just went way too far in the end.




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[onearmedbandit]

Good luck getting into a pub or having a meal out without the app. Or staying in a camping ground... It just went way too far in the end.




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Did you need it to do 'anything' or go 'anywhere'? Hyperbole like that just weakens any argument.

[Dean]

Did you need it to do 'anything' or go 'anywhere'? Hyperbole like that just weakens any argument.

I guess not “anything” or “anywhere” in the absolute literal sense.
So with that I was incorrect - my mistake.

To rephrase - I could not do most things or go most places in society without a vaccination pass/scanning app etc during the level 4 lockdowns.

Regarding my personal home/family, there were a lot of things I could not do either. For example It would have prevented me from being with my kids, or attending a family members funeral. I got vaccinated - because family are everything. But overall, like SafeRiders, felt the government took things too far.

What things could you do without it during that time?

[onearmedbandit]

I guess not “anything” or “anywhere” in the absolute literal sense.
So with that I was incorrect - my mistake.

To rephrase - I could not do most things or go most places in society without a vaccination pass/scanning app etc during the level 4 lockdowns.

What things could you do without it during that time?

The only time that I recall showing it was at restaurants. Otherwise I never needed it. Supermarkets and petrol stations didn't require it, going for walks with my family didn't require it, popping into friends businesses didn't require it. Didn't need it to drive my car or ride my bike.

[Dean]

The only time that I recall showing it was at restaurants. Otherwise I never needed it. Supermarkets and petrol stations didn't require it, going for walks with my family didn't require it, popping into friends businesses didn't require it. Didn't need it to drive my car or ride my bike.

Are you sure regarding supermarkets and Petrol stations?

The traffic light system introduced in December 2021 mandated the use of vaccine passes to access these places. If they didn’t check you then they were not abiding by the mandate nor their own company policies around COVID.

In terms of driving/riding - provided that was for essential purposes, during the relevant lockdown level.

Maybe we are not aligning on the time and lockdown level.

But semantics aside - I thought it was very restrictive to many kiwis everyday life.

[onearmedbandit]

Are you sure regarding supermarkets and Petrol stations?

The traffic light system introduced in December 2021 mandated the use of vaccine passes to access these places. If they didn’t check you then they were not abiding by the mandate nor their own company policies around COVID.

In terms of driving/riding - provided that was for essential purposes, during the relevant lockdown level.

Maybe we are not aligning on the time and lockdown level.

But semantics aside - I thought it was very restrictive to many kiwis everyday life.

There was the QR for supermarkets but it was never checked but I didn't experience that for petrol stations. Let's get back on track, you initially stated you couldn't do anything or go anywhere without a vaccine card (hyperbole I know). You weren't talking about lockdown in you initial statement. I'm arguing that I only recall showing my vaccine card at restaurants.

[nerrrd]

Yeah no vaccine passes required for essential services (supermarkets, healthcare etc) but masks were mandated – but only really as mandated as the fares on AT are, as in if you made yourself objectionable enough, they usually let it pass unless you got a real hardliner (and exemptions were very easy to come by).

They were required for 'close contact' businesses and gathering in groups like at restaurants etc I think, only time I remember anyone asking to see mine was at a cinema.

[pete376403]

Remember though many did not share the same experience as you. Some could not attend funerals of loved ones, see loved ones in hospital in terminal care. …Anywho, I am off to my Thursday beers!

Snipping a bit here and there - those funerals, those people in terminal care - many people were in that situation BECAUSE of covid, yet some see the lockdonws as. a greater imposition. And you can now go off to your Thursday beers possibly because the lockdowns and vaccinations were successful at curbing the spread.

[sugilite]

The thing that got me riled was all the anti-vaxers hitting me with disinformation. They kept saying I was "shedding", so I would excitedly race home to look for these sheds, but nadda. Fuckers :mad:

[F5 Dave]

I've worked with smarter people all my working life.

But I'm smarter enough to know who is smarter than me.

The truly fucking moronic think they are smarter than actual smart people.

Ohh I think in smarter than medical scientists.

Fuck off. You're plankton stupid compared to them. Tdl, mushman, Dean and your obvious alter ego. Talking to you.

[husaberg]

Are you sure regarding supermarkets and Petrol stations?

The traffic light system introduced in December 2021 mandated the use of vaccine passes to access these places. .

Reality differed....

My Vaccine Pass is compulsory for entering a range of public settings including events, hospitality (cafes, restaurants and bars), close contact businesses such as hairdressers and beauticians, retailers, sporting events, and faith-based gatherings. However, the vaccine pass is not needed to access essential services such as supermarkets, pharmacies, health and disability services, food banks, petrol stations, public transportation, schools, housing and housing support services.

ie not required for basically essential services, but required to enter places people wanted to do non essential things.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127200039/confused-about-my-vaccine-pass-youre-not-alone-here-are-some-key-questions-answered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Vaccine_Pass
Getting a reply to a post of untruths I guess is a win for a troll.... it will be an epic troll win if you can get the forum moderator formally known as Kelsey Grammer to send it to PD As well.:violin:

My father died during the COVID restrictions and basically only myself my two kids, my partner, my brother, his partner and his kids plus my mother were allowed to attend the service
Yet we seemed to be able to grasp and accept why this was the case better than a couple of pathetic narcissistic self-centred man babies, who were upset they couldn't do a few hobbies or non essential stuff without some basic precautions to keep other (at risk people) safe.

[Laava]

Cunts need to let shit go!
oh, and not listen to Profit Tumeke.

[Dean]

There was the QR for supermarkets but it was never checked but I didn't experience that for petrol stations. Let's get back on track, you initially stated you couldn't do anything or go anywhere without a vaccine card (hyperbole I know). You weren't talking about lockdown in you initial statement. I'm arguing that I only recall showing my vaccine card at restaurants.

Ok,

- Clarifying my intention was on the lockdown levels regarding my initial statement.
- If that was your true personal experience; great.
- I encountered issues with attending a funeral, having my kids over, employment…list goes on.

Big picture - what is the end game here?

Your views are based off your lived experience, I have a differing opinion based off mine - shall we agree to disagree? (Respectfully)

[Dean]

Snipping a bit here and there - those funerals, those people in terminal care - many people were in that situation BECAUSE of covid, yet some see the lockdonws as. a greater imposition. And you can now go off to your Thursday beers possibly because the lockdowns and vaccinations were successful at curbing the spread.

Sure, some were affected more than others, some of which had pre existing health conditions, and that was truly unfortunate, but I disagree with your use of the word “many”.

I’ve had it - no different to the flu - I am of average health: I dealt to it over a few days and life goes on.

I don’t have a degree in medical science, nor claim to be better than them, but that was my personal experience (and many others I know) which helps form my opinion. On top of my doubt when private healthcare with an open cheque book tell me they are producing a vaccine for mine and your benefit.

I realise this is a rather unpopular opinion on KB, but KB isn’t necessarily the best cross section of data to reflect overall society either.

Respect & protect your right to have an opinion though Pete, that’s the beauty of a democracy.:rockon:

[SaferRides]

Sure, some were affected more than others, some of which had pre existing health conditions, and that was truly unfortunate, but I disagree with your use of the word “many”.

I’ve had it - no different to the flu - I am of average health: I dealt to it over a few days and life goes on.


There are many people who were affected by the lockdowns. I won't bore you with my experience, but I have talked to many people who had their or their family's lives significantly impacted. But you generallly don't hear them going on about it as most realised that there was a much bigger picture.

I have no problem with people who decided for whatever reason not to be vaccinated, provided they did not try to convince others to do the same based on misinformation. But then it was pretty irresponsible to carry out a mass vaccination programme and not warn people of the risks, even if they were low, like myocarditis. Most drugs have a list of warnings, and vaccines should be no different.



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[R650R]

It’s amazing how fast we’ve forgotten for the most part the draconian restrictions during the higher level lockdowns, especially during the “eliminate” phase. I guess we’re all so busy now living our lives like today’s the last day before the next event.

There were a lot of things that you MUST comply with but practicality meant it was rarely enforced.
Some people were lucky having large families or relaxed neighbours and able to form small enclaves for social contact. Others like me have vulnerable health wise either side that were terrified of the virus so were isolated apart from still being able to go to work.

We were told to trust the science but the media were allowed to perpetuate nonsense that you could catch it from touching a petrol pump handle which was later announced to be 100% false. You weren’t allowed to go to the beach despite salt water and a good salty breeze being a great cleanser of the lungs.

I wonder if the pain of lockdown being recently helped the South Koreans rapidly reject the martial law/coup attempt last week?

[pritch]

It’s amazing how fast we’ve forgotten for the most part the draconian restrictions during the higher level lockdowns, especially during the “eliminate” phase. I guess we’re all so busy now living our lives like today’s the last day before the next event.

There were a lot of things that you MUST comply with but practicality meant it was rarely enforced.
Some people were lucky having large families or relaxed neighbours and able to form small enclaves for social contact. Others like me have vulnerable health wise either side that were terrified of the virus so were isolated apart from still being able to go to work.

We were told to trust the science but the media were allowed to perpetuate nonsense that you could catch it from touching a petrol pump handle which was later announced to be 100% false. You weren’t allowed to go to the beach despite salt water and a good salty breeze being a great cleanser of the lungs.




This and other posts here are a reminder of how faulty our memories are. During the time our "draconian" lockdown was in effect people in Europe were dying untreated in massive numbers. People were being buried in mass graves in New York but the numbers were so high they had to store the dead in refrigerated trucks.

NZ was spared all of that due to the courage of Ardern and others. You may not like that but it's true. You personally may be alive only because of the governments reaction. Had the NZ government reacted like most others thousands of us would be dead.

When COVID did arrive, as was inevitable, it was a milder form and most, but not all, survived it. Mistakes were made but we hadn't had a worldwide pandemic in a hundred years so things were a bit rusty. Overall New Zealand had a world leading response and we should be grateful. Not whinging about not being able to go to the beach.

[TheDemonLord]

This and other posts here are a reminder of how faulty our memories are. During the time our "draconian" lockdown was in effect people in Europe were dying untreated in massive numbers. People were being buried in mass graves in New York but the numbers were so high they had to store the dead in refrigerated trucks.

NZ was spared all of that due to the courage of Ardern and others. You may not like that but it's true. You personally may be alive only because of the governments reaction. Had the NZ government reacted like most others thousands of us would be dead.

When COVID did arrive, as was inevitable, it was a milder form and most, but not all, survived it. Mistakes were made but we hadn't had a worldwide pandemic in a hundred years so things were a bit rusty. Overall New Zealand had a world leading response and we should be grateful. Not whinging about not being able to go to the beach.

Straight out of the Labour propaganda machine.

NZ was spared, not by any government intervention, but by our lack of mass transit systems, geographic isolation, low population density and increased UV radiation levels.

You forget... the NZ Governement *did* react like most others.

As for faulty Memories - I am still paying the price, in multiple ways (not just financially). Everyday is a painful reminder of period of history. So no, I assure you - my memory is quite clear.

[sugilite]

My apologies if this has been posted before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CquiSjgJNc8

[Dean]

This and other posts here are a reminder of how faulty our memories are. During the time our "draconian" lockdown was in effect people in Europe were dying untreated in massive numbers. People were being buried in mass graves in New York but the numbers were so high they had to store the dead in refrigerated trucks.

NZ was spared all of that due to the courage of Ardern and others. You may not like that but it's true. You personally may be alive only because of the governments reaction. Had the NZ government reacted like most others thousands of us would be dead.

When COVID did arrive, as was inevitable, it was a milder form and most, but not all, survived it. Mistakes were made but we hadn't had a worldwide pandemic in a hundred years so things were a bit rusty. Overall New Zealand had a world leading response and we should be grateful. Not whinging about not being able to go to the beach.

You’re dreaming about Ardern again Pritch,

As TDL pointed out - isolated geography, low population density, a under utilised public transport system and an overall healthier population spared NZ.

People of average health, of most ages - deal to it in a few days and life goes on - like myself.

Some of the top countries affected by COVID (deaths) + population density + life expectancy + infant mortality
India - 420 km2 - 70.4 - 28.4.
Brazil - 25.1 km2 - 76.6 - 12.3.
Russia - 5,000 km2 based off Moscow - 71.6 - 6.4.
Mexico - 66.5 km2 - 77.3 - 12.1.

And now NZ -18 km2 - 82.2 - 3.6.

Now I have been generous because I took the overall density for countries like brazil, a vast geographic landscape with many scattered rural communities. If I were to use the urban density (where the spread and effect's where mostly seen) per km2 it would be vastly higher.

Further to this the mode usage (people who actually use PT, not just the amount of infrastructure, shows on average 30-40% across the board, whereas NZ - 25%.

[husaberg]

You’re dreaming about Ardern again Pritch,

As TDL pointed out - isolated geography, low population density, a under utilised public transport system and an overall healthier population spared NZ.

People of average health, of most ages - deal to it in a few days and life goes on - like myself.

Some of the top countries affected by COVID (deaths) + population density + life expectancy + infant mortality
India - 420 km2 - 70.4 - 28.4.
Brazil - 25.1 km2 - 76.6 - 12.3.
Russia - 5,000 km2 based off Moscow - 71.6 - 6.4.
Mexico - 66.5 km2 - 77.3 - 12.1.

And now NZ -18 km2 - 82.2 - 3.6.

Now I have been generous because I took the overall density for countries like brazil, a vast geographic landscape with many scattered rural communities. If I were to use the urban density (where the spread and effect's where mostly seen) per km2 it would be vastly higher.

Further to this the mode usage (people who actually use PT, not just the amount of infrastructure, shows on average 30-40% across the board, whereas NZ - 25%.

If it's based on population density maybe you would like to explain this for me "Dean".

More Americans were vaccinated heading into the winter of 2021 and 2022 (roughly corresponding to the omicron wave), but nearly 10% of the country lived in areas where less than half of the adult population was vaccinated as of November 2021. Death rates in these low-vaccination counties were roughly twice what they were in counties that had 80% or more of their population vaccinated(
Especially bearing in mind where Trumps support base lived....looking forward to your non answer "Dean"I do however enjoy the way you totally ignore strict quarantine and all the other things trump and the USA and the UK ignored.

[Dean]

It’s amazing how fast we’ve forgotten for the most part the draconian restrictions during the higher level lockdowns, especially during the “eliminate” phase. I guess we’re all so busy now living our lives like today’s the last day before the next event.


We were told to trust the science but the media were allowed to perpetuate nonsense that you could catch it from touching a petrol pump handle which was later announced to be 100% false. You weren’t allowed to go to the beach despite salt water and a good salty breeze being a great cleanser of the lungs.

Spoken like a gentleman and a scholar! Good to see some common sense ;):drinkup: